Ran a 10k in June (7 Viewers)

[tri-man 47]

Suck index of 18 today for my 5 miler. Dew point of -1. This stuff ain't supposed to happen in Alabama.

Could be worse ..you could be an Auburn fan.

 

[Ned]

Thanks (again) to Ned, I did my first heart rate monitor run as a baseline yesterday. Idea was to avg in the 7:30s but ended up going a bit faster than planned. Course is roads with some rolling hills. Here are the results:

Mile 1 - 7:36 Most of the first mile I was in the mid 120s, but HR was at 128/129 at mile marker

Mile 2 - 7:24 - Avg 136 this mile I started getting into the 130s and pretty steadily stayed there, setting the theme for the rest of the run

Mile 3 - 7:15 - Avg 137

Mile 4 - 7:12 - Avg 136

Mile 5 - 7:08 - Avg 138

Mile 6 - 7:20 - Avg 135

The highest my HR ever got was 143 going up a hill at around 4.5 miles. After the first mile I was only in the 120s on downhills. On flat ground I was pretty steadily averaged in the mid to high 130s throughout. So...HR guys...what do I make of this data? Also, an old thing I remember my HS coach doing...it took me just over 3 minutes for my HR to get back under the 70s post run and about 5 minutes for it to get back to my resting rate of low 50s.

Wow that's some low ### HR numbers. Juxt/tri are right... can't really know exactly what this means without a max HR. But...... How hard was this on a scale of 1-10? I'm going to take a WAG and say you're 175 or lower for max hr. Which means you're LSD should be under 130, tempo runs @ 155ish. Just a guess......

I've got my annual January 10 miler this coming Sunday. I'm nowhere near ready to race it. I've been running inconsistently with the holidays and this insane weather. Just focusing on cross training and my piddly pushups... I'll be playing this race conservative since it's hilly for the first half.

To those seeing some wacky results on their HR... My HR strap recent kicked the bucket so I got the updated Garmin premium strap. It's been rock solid so far without a single glitch. This winter weather always drove mine nuts before, but not the new one.

 

[MAC_32]

Suck index of 18 today for my 5 miler. Dew point of -1. This stuff ain't supposed to happen in Alabama.

-16 here, dew point -18 and temps finally crept over zero. Going running shortly

 

[FUBAR]

40 minutes on the trainer this morning in the garage. I need to buy a trainer tire. Any suggestions?

Then a 4 mile run tonight, in Virginia. 20 degrees, dew point 3, "feels like 11"

Wasn't bad actually. I have an awesome long sleeve tech shirt (got it from the Atomic Man tri) which keeps me surprisingly warm.

For the suck index in the winter, do you just add dew and temp? Seems like that would make it seem better than it is.

 

[ChiefD]

I have some questions for the pros around here. A little background: my neighbor convinced.....er coerced.....uh....made it sound awesome.....er conned me into signing up for a half marathon last April. I was 43 years old, high cholestoral, office job, and knew I needed to get back in shape. So I said: sure, why not.

I had no expectations that first race: it was the first one I had ever done of any length. Googled half marathon training, and found the Hal Higdon plan. Went with the novice plan because I had no idea what to expect. Figured if I could finish the race at a 10:00 minute/mile pace, I would be pleased. Ended up finishing in 2:05, lost 20 pounds, found my abs again, and felt great. So I decided to sign up for another.

This one was in October of this year. I set a goal of 1:50 for the race. I don't even know why I picked that number. I don't even know what a reasonable expectation is going from race to race in order to train for a particular goal. So I went back to the Hal Higdon website, and started training with the intermediate plan, which added interval training and tempo runs to my training. I basically ran all summer just to keep my base, and then 12 weeks out started the Higdon plan pretty religiously. Ended up on race day finishing at 1:52. So overall I was very pleased.

So my question is: what now? I'm signed up for another half in April - the same race I ran this year. I feel I'm at a crossroads:

1. How fast can I go, and what will it take to get there?

2. Is it a full commitment, from a full diet makeoever to more intense training?

3. Is there a plateau that you just reach: in other words, I can only go so fast?

4. Is it worth it to keep shooting for low times, or is it more about just staying fit?

The truth is: I like to do other things. Fishing, hiking, camping, spending time with the family. I have 3 young children, and I live for these kids. Any time spent training is free time away from them. I like to drink beer while watching sports and eating BBQ and being a slug sometimes.

Any sage advice out there?

1 - Agree with everyone else. Everyone's potential is going to depend on a lot of factors; namely genetics, dedication, and smart training. All I can say is don't be afraid to set big goals. You've already surprised yourself once. I bet you'll be surprised at just how fast you can get with the right training.

2 - It all depends on what you want out of this. Can you go full bore and live/breathe this hobby? Sure. You're going to have to decide how dedicated you want to be.

3 - We all will hit plateaus sooner or later. The good news is you probably won't see them for a while since you're just starting out.

4 - You'll have to answer that one. For me, I'm super competitive and can't focus unless I'm chasing a better time.

Get your wife/kids involved in running if you haven't already. When I started, it was just me out there. FF 3.5 years and now we all run (wife and 2 boys 5yrs/7yrs). You're setting a great example for your kids!

Training wise - volume is king. 80%+ of your mileage should be LSD (Long Slow Distance). Being new to the sport, I'd argue that it should be 95%. It sounds boring and counter-intuitive, but it works.

Thanks to all that responded to my initial questions. After much thought, I've decided to try and push hard for my next half on April 12th. So I'm within the 14 week window at this point. Mapped out my 12 week calendar today, and I'm using the Higdon Advanced training program this time. I trained using the Intermediate program for my last race in the fall. So I'm confident in making the jump.

As for a race goal, not sure. Did 2:05 in my first half last spring, 1:52 in October, and am pretty confident I can be in the mid 1:40's. The question is: can I get to the 1:30's? Not sure that's possible, but I'm sure going to try like hell and see what happens.

 

[Sand]

40 minutes on the trainer this morning in the garage. I need to buy a trainer tire. Any suggestions?

Then a 4 mile run tonight, in Virginia. 20 degrees, dew point 3, "feels like 11"

Wasn't bad actually. I have an awesome long sleeve tech shirt (got it from the Atomic Man tri) which keeps me surprisingly warm.

For the suck index in the winter, do you just add dew and temp? Seems like that would make it seem better than it is.

I just use an old ratty tire for the trainer. Anything cheap/worn out will do.

Suck index is what it is in winter. I prefer to think of it as what I'll look back on longingly in 5 months.

 

[FUBAR]

40 minutes on the trainer this morning in the garage. I need to buy a trainer tire. Any suggestions?

Then a 4 mile run tonight, in Virginia. 20 degrees, dew point 3, "feels like 11"

Wasn't bad actually. I have an awesome long sleeve tech shirt (got it from the Atomic Man tri) which keeps me surprisingly warm.

For the suck index in the winter, do you just add dew and temp? Seems like that would make it seem better than it is.

I just use an old ratty tire for the trainer. Anything cheap/worn out will do.

Suck index is what it is in winter. I prefer to think of it as what I'll look back on longingly in 5 months.

I've been doing that, but the heat seems to be making the tube flat, which makes for an awkward ride.

 

[Ned]

I have some questions for the pros around here. A little background: my neighbor convinced.....er coerced.....uh....made it sound awesome.....er conned me into signing up for a half marathon last April. I was 43 years old, high cholestoral, office job, and knew I needed to get back in shape. So I said: sure, why not.

I had no expectations that first race: it was the first one I had ever done of any length. Googled half marathon training, and found the Hal Higdon plan. Went with the novice plan because I had no idea what to expect. Figured if I could finish the race at a 10:00 minute/mile pace, I would be pleased. Ended up finishing in 2:05, lost 20 pounds, found my abs again, and felt great. So I decided to sign up for another.

This one was in October of this year. I set a goal of 1:50 for the race. I don't even know why I picked that number. I don't even know what a reasonable expectation is going from race to race in order to train for a particular goal. So I went back to the Hal Higdon website, and started training with the intermediate plan, which added interval training and tempo runs to my training. I basically ran all summer just to keep my base, and then 12 weeks out started the Higdon plan pretty religiously. Ended up on race day finishing at 1:52. So overall I was very pleased.

So my question is: what now? I'm signed up for another half in April - the same race I ran this year. I feel I'm at a crossroads:

1. How fast can I go, and what will it take to get there?

2. Is it a full commitment, from a full diet makeoever to more intense training?

3. Is there a plateau that you just reach: in other words, I can only go so fast?

4. Is it worth it to keep shooting for low times, or is it more about just staying fit?

The truth is: I like to do other things. Fishing, hiking, camping, spending time with the family. I have 3 young children, and I live for these kids. Any time spent training is free time away from them. I like to drink beer while watching sports and eating BBQ and being a slug sometimes.

Any sage advice out there?

1 - Agree with everyone else. Everyone's potential is going to depend on a lot of factors; namely genetics, dedication, and smart training. All I can say is don't be afraid to set big goals. You've already surprised yourself once. I bet you'll be surprised at just how fast you can get with the right training.

2 - It all depends on what you want out of this. Can you go full bore and live/breathe this hobby? Sure. You're going to have to decide how dedicated you want to be.

3 - We all will hit plateaus sooner or later. The good news is you probably won't see them for a while since you're just starting out.

4 - You'll have to answer that one. For me, I'm super competitive and can't focus unless I'm chasing a better time.

Get your wife/kids involved in running if you haven't already. When I started, it was just me out there. FF 3.5 years and now we all run (wife and 2 boys 5yrs/7yrs). You're setting a great example for your kids!

Training wise - volume is king. 80%+ of your mileage should be LSD (Long Slow Distance). Being new to the sport, I'd argue that it should be 95%. It sounds boring and counter-intuitive, but it works.

Thanks to all that responded to my initial questions. After much thought, I've decided to try and push hard for my next half on April 12th. So I'm within the 14 week window at this point. Mapped out my 12 week calendar today, and I'm using the Higdon Advanced training program this time. I trained using the Intermediate program for my last race in the fall. So I'm confident in making the jump.

As for a race goal, not sure. Did 2:05 in my first half last spring, 1:52 in October, and am pretty confident I can be in the mid 1:40's. The question is: can I get to the 1:30's? Not sure that's possible, but I'm sure going to try like hell and see what happens.

1:52 to 1:30s is a gigantic leap forward. Impossible? No. Likely? Doubt it. Be careful biting off too much at once. As you become more seasoned, the improvement gaps will become smaller and smaller. Don't get trapped into thinking you'll be making 10 minute improvements every time you run. Not to be a debby downer...

What has your base training been like since October?

 

[Sand]

40 minutes on the trainer this morning in the garage. I need to buy a trainer tire. Any suggestions?

Then a 4 mile run tonight, in Virginia. 20 degrees, dew point 3, "feels like 11"

Wasn't bad actually. I have an awesome long sleeve tech shirt (got it from the Atomic Man tri) which keeps me surprisingly warm.

For the suck index in the winter, do you just add dew and temp? Seems like that would make it seem better than it is.

I just use an old ratty tire for the trainer. Anything cheap/worn out will do.

Suck index is what it is in winter. I prefer to think of it as what I'll look back on longingly in 5 months.

I've been doing that, but the heat seems to be making the tube flat, which makes for an awkward ride.

Something like this, then.

 

[2Young2BBald]

40 minutes on the trainer this morning in the garage. I need to buy a trainer tire. Any suggestions?

Then a 4 mile run tonight, in Virginia. 20 degrees, dew point 3, "feels like 11"

Wasn't bad actually. I have an awesome long sleeve tech shirt (got it from the Atomic Man tri) which keeps me surprisingly warm.

For the suck index in the winter, do you just add dew and temp? Seems like that would make it seem better than it is.

I just use an old ratty tire for the trainer. Anything cheap/worn out will do.

Suck index is what it is in winter. I prefer to think of it as what I'll look back on longingly in 5 months.

I've been doing that, but the heat seems to be making the tube flat, which makes for an awkward ride.

Here is my trainer routine for my tire in case it helps. Back off the trainer's resistance an inflate the tire to its recommended max PSI. Then, crank back the resistance. Once I do, I pull the tire back and forth and crank the resistance a bit more until the tire moves without tire "squeak" on the resistor. I'll then check to see if I am still at max PSI or above due to the resistance. Typically, its still right on. When I am done, I back the resistance off and do it all over again, every ride. I am using a couple of old tires I flat spotted a bit from a crash a while back and have had no issues with the bikes (tri and road) on the trainer.

 

[worrierking]

I have some questions for the pros around here. A little background: my neighbor convinced.....er coerced.....uh....made it sound awesome.....er conned me into signing up for a half marathon last April. I was 43 years old, high cholestoral, office job, and knew I needed to get back in shape. So I said: sure, why not.

I had no expectations that first race: it was the first one I had ever done of any length. Googled half marathon training, and found the Hal Higdon plan. Went with the novice plan because I had no idea what to expect. Figured if I could finish the race at a 10:00 minute/mile pace, I would be pleased. Ended up finishing in 2:05, lost 20 pounds, found my abs again, and felt great. So I decided to sign up for another.

This one was in October of this year. I set a goal of 1:50 for the race. I don't even know why I picked that number. I don't even know what a reasonable expectation is going from race to race in order to train for a particular goal. So I went back to the Hal Higdon website, and started training with the intermediate plan, which added interval training and tempo runs to my training. I basically ran all summer just to keep my base, and then 12 weeks out started the Higdon plan pretty religiously. Ended up on race day finishing at 1:52. So overall I was very pleased.

So my question is: what now? I'm signed up for another half in April - the same race I ran this year. I feel I'm at a crossroads:

1. How fast can I go, and what will it take to get there?

2. Is it a full commitment, from a full diet makeoever to more intense training?

3. Is there a plateau that you just reach: in other words, I can only go so fast?

4. Is it worth it to keep shooting for low times, or is it more about just staying fit?

The truth is: I like to do other things. Fishing, hiking, camping, spending time with the family. I have 3 young children, and I live for these kids. Any time spent training is free time away from them. I like to drink beer while watching sports and eating BBQ and being a slug sometimes.

Any sage advice out there?

1 - Agree with everyone else. Everyone's potential is going to depend on a lot of factors; namely genetics, dedication, and smart training. All I can say is don't be afraid to set big goals. You've already surprised yourself once. I bet you'll be surprised at just how fast you can get with the right training.

2 - It all depends on what you want out of this. Can you go full bore and live/breathe this hobby? Sure. You're going to have to decide how dedicated you want to be.

3 - We all will hit plateaus sooner or later. The good news is you probably won't see them for a while since you're just starting out.

4 - You'll have to answer that one. For me, I'm super competitive and can't focus unless I'm chasing a better time.

Get your wife/kids involved in running if you haven't already. When I started, it was just me out there. FF 3.5 years and now we all run (wife and 2 boys 5yrs/7yrs). You're setting a great example for your kids!

Training wise - volume is king. 80%+ of your mileage should be LSD (Long Slow Distance). Being new to the sport, I'd argue that it should be 95%. It sounds boring and counter-intuitive, but it works.

Thanks to all that responded to my initial questions. After much thought, I've decided to try and push hard for my next half on April 12th. So I'm within the 14 week window at this point. Mapped out my 12 week calendar today, and I'm using the Higdon Advanced training program this time. I trained using the Intermediate program for my last race in the fall. So I'm confident in making the jump.

As for a race goal, not sure. Did 2:05 in my first half last spring, 1:52 in October, and am pretty confident I can be in the mid 1:40's. The question is: can I get to the 1:30's? Not sure that's possible, but I'm sure going to try like hell and see what happens.

1:52 to 1:30s is a gigantic leap forward. Impossible? No. Likely? Doubt it. Be careful biting off too much at once. As you become more seasoned, the improvement gaps will become smaller and smaller. Don't get trapped into thinking you'll be making 10 minute improvements every time you run. Not to be a debby downer...

What has your base training been like since October?

What Ned said.

You can continue to improve for many years, but it isn't necessarily in a perfectly straight line. Sometimes you plateau for a long time and then make another leap forward. In the half, I ran a 2:00 in my first, then my second a few months later was 1:51. That remained my PR for 3 years until I ran a 1:45. It took two more years for me to top that at 1:42. I was continually training harder the whole time.

You are likely to continue to improve over time as you train harder, but don't be discouraged if you hit those plateaus.

 

[sho nuff]

Between the temps and having the kids out of school at home all the time. Ive been relegated to 4-5 mile treadmill runs.

Was supposed to have them back in school today, but some maintenance issues have them home again.

 

[Sand]

40 minutes on the trainer this morning in the garage. I need to buy a trainer tire. Any suggestions?

Then a 4 mile run tonight, in Virginia. 20 degrees, dew point 3, "feels like 11"

Wasn't bad actually. I have an awesome long sleeve tech shirt (got it from the Atomic Man tri) which keeps me surprisingly warm.

For the suck index in the winter, do you just add dew and temp? Seems like that would make it seem better than it is.

I just use an old ratty tire for the trainer. Anything cheap/worn out will do.

Suck index is what it is in winter. I prefer to think of it as what I'll look back on longingly in 5 months.

I've been doing that, but the heat seems to be making the tube flat, which makes for an awkward ride.

Here is my trainer routine for my tire in case it helps. Back off the trainer's resistance an inflate the tire to its recommended max PSI. Then, crank back the resistance. Once I do, I pull the tire back and forth and crank the resistance a bit more until the tire moves without tire "squeak" on the resistor. I'll then check to see if I am still at max PSI or above due to the resistance. Typically, its still right on. When I am done, I back the resistance off and do it all over again, every ride. I am using a couple of old tires I flat spotted a bit from a crash a while back and have had no issues with the bikes (tri and road) on the trainer.

2Y - just remembered. The US has been outdone in the swim-run races. Have a look at this. Good God - completely bat#### crazy people.

Also, as a general note since we're talking about cycling. Did a trainer workout last night. 50 minutes, 223W average. 2x10' intervals at ~300W. Not bad for the middle of the winter.

 

[2Young2BBald]

2Y - just remembered. The US has been outdone in the swim-run races. Have a look at this. Good God - completely bat#### crazy people.

HFS, the world needs more races that spawn from a "drunken bet" in my opinion. Oh, and racers will need calf sleeves? DUH, every race needs calf sleeves. Please let me know if you ever find YouTube postings of this thing taking place.

 

[koby925]

Thanks (again) to Ned, I did my first heart rate monitor run as a baseline yesterday. Idea was to avg in the 7:30s but ended up going a bit faster than planned. Course is roads with some rolling hills. Here are the results:

Mile 1 - 7:36 Most of the first mile I was in the mid 120s, but HR was at 128/129 at mile marker

Mile 2 - 7:24 - Avg 136 this mile I started getting into the 130s and pretty steadily stayed there, setting the theme for the rest of the run

Mile 3 - 7:15 - Avg 137

Mile 4 - 7:12 - Avg 136

Mile 5 - 7:08 - Avg 138

Mile 6 - 7:20 - Avg 135

The highest my HR ever got was 143 going up a hill at around 4.5 miles. After the first mile I was only in the 120s on downhills. On flat ground I was pretty steadily averaged in the mid to high 130s throughout. So...HR guys...what do I make of this data? Also, an old thing I remember my HS coach doing...it took me just over 3 minutes for my HR to get back under the 70s post run and about 5 minutes for it to get back to my resting rate of low 50s.

Wow that's some low ### HR numbers. Juxt/tri are right... can't really know exactly what this means without a max HR. But...... How hard was this on a scale of 1-10? I'm going to take a WAG and say you're 175 or lower for max hr. Which means you're LSD should be under 130, tempo runs @ 155ish. Just a guess......

Thanks, Ned. Understood that I have to get a maxHR and tempo reading to figure out what this means. I actually did a tempo on a treadmill yesterday but forgot to bring the HR strap. D'oh! Ran 3 Miles in 17:58 (6:10/6:00/5:48) so it would've been a good indicator. I tested my HR on the treadmill while warming up and it was 132 at 7:45-8 min pace. Forgot to test it during or right after the tempo and by the time I remembered, .3 miles into my cooldown I was back down to 132-133. So anyway, I know I need more info but part of the reason I wanted to start with HR data is that I have suspected that my legs have been holding me back. And keeping me from training fast enough to see race results. 7:30s shouldn't be taxing my HR that much but all runs have been giving leg pain/soreness so I never want to push it. That was the first speed/tempo I've really done in awhile. I was actually pretty surprised that the pace felt as good as it did. I will try to get a MaxHR and/or a tempo HR in the next week or so.

 

[gruecd]

Stereotypes: Gym



Which one are you??

 

[koby925]

Stereotypes: Gym



Which one are you??

Have to admit I'm sometimes guilty of being the Sweaty Guy or the Hunter and Gatherer

 

[koby925]

The Treadmill Sprinter and Talkative Timmy guy tend to be the same guy a lot - "Yeah I saw you going 9MPH...I crank it up to 10 or 11 mph sometimes. Really gets the legs going" Ok, thanks, guy.

 

[MAC_32]

Stereotypes: Gym



Which one are you??

Stereotypes: Gym



Which one are you??

Treadmill sprinter. Only guilty of it a couple of times because I only do it if it is pouring outside. All day long. I'll usually use it as my off day, but if I've already used them all for the week it's that or nothing. This then causes me to be sweaty guy. I mop up as well as I can when I'm done, but it's never 100%. I quickly walk out without making eye contact as soon as I'm done.

And man invented headphones to avoid Talkative Timmy. He can't be mad at ya if you can't hear him, or at least pretend like you can't. Goes back to that eye contact thing. Never do it unless you know what you're about to look at is worth it. i.e. yoga pants.

 

[Sand]

The Treadmill Sprinter and Talkative Timmy guy tend to be the same guy a lot - "Yeah I saw you going 9MPH...I crank it up to 10 or 11 mph sometimes. Really gets the legs going" Ok, thanks, guy.

Then of course there is the Crossfit Guy: "I crank it up to 10 or 11, then stop every mile to do 20 burpees."

 

[ChiefD]

I have some questions for the pros around here. A little background: my neighbor convinced.....er coerced.....uh....made it sound awesome.....er conned me into signing up for a half marathon last April. I was 43 years old, high cholestoral, office job, and knew I needed to get back in shape. So I said: sure, why not.

I had no expectations that first race: it was the first one I had ever done of any length. Googled half marathon training, and found the Hal Higdon plan. Went with the novice plan because I had no idea what to expect. Figured if I could finish the race at a 10:00 minute/mile pace, I would be pleased. Ended up finishing in 2:05, lost 20 pounds, found my abs again, and felt great. So I decided to sign up for another.

This one was in October of this year. I set a goal of 1:50 for the race. I don't even know why I picked that number. I don't even know what a reasonable expectation is going from race to race in order to train for a particular goal. So I went back to the Hal Higdon website, and started training with the intermediate plan, which added interval training and tempo runs to my training. I basically ran all summer just to keep my base, and then 12 weeks out started the Higdon plan pretty religiously. Ended up on race day finishing at 1:52. So overall I was very pleased.

So my question is: what now? I'm signed up for another half in April - the same race I ran this year. I feel I'm at a crossroads:

1. How fast can I go, and what will it take to get there?

2. Is it a full commitment, from a full diet makeoever to more intense training?

3. Is there a plateau that you just reach: in other words, I can only go so fast?

4. Is it worth it to keep shooting for low times, or is it more about just staying fit?

The truth is: I like to do other things. Fishing, hiking, camping, spending time with the family. I have 3 young children, and I live for these kids. Any time spent training is free time away from them. I like to drink beer while watching sports and eating BBQ and being a slug sometimes.

Any sage advice out there?

1 - Agree with everyone else. Everyone's potential is going to depend on a lot of factors; namely genetics, dedication, and smart training. All I can say is don't be afraid to set big goals. You've already surprised yourself once. I bet you'll be surprised at just how fast you can get with the right training.

2 - It all depends on what you want out of this. Can you go full bore and live/breathe this hobby? Sure. You're going to have to decide how dedicated you want to be.

3 - We all will hit plateaus sooner or later. The good news is you probably won't see them for a while since you're just starting out.

4 - You'll have to answer that one. For me, I'm super competitive and can't focus unless I'm chasing a better time.

Get your wife/kids involved in running if you haven't already. When I started, it was just me out there. FF 3.5 years and now we all run (wife and 2 boys 5yrs/7yrs). You're setting a great example for your kids!

Training wise - volume is king. 80%+ of your mileage should be LSD (Long Slow Distance). Being new to the sport, I'd argue that it should be 95%. It sounds boring and counter-intuitive, but it works.

Thanks to all that responded to my initial questions. After much thought, I've decided to try and push hard for my next half on April 12th. So I'm within the 14 week window at this point. Mapped out my 12 week calendar today, and I'm using the Higdon Advanced training program this time. I trained using the Intermediate program for my last race in the fall. So I'm confident in making the jump.

As for a race goal, not sure. Did 2:05 in my first half last spring, 1:52 in October, and am pretty confident I can be in the mid 1:40's. The question is: can I get to the 1:30's? Not sure that's possible, but I'm sure going to try like hell and see what happens.

1:52 to 1:30s is a gigantic leap forward. Impossible? No. Likely? Doubt it. Be careful biting off too much at once. As you become more seasoned, the improvement gaps will become smaller and smaller. Don't get trapped into thinking you'll be making 10 minute improvements every time you run. Not to be a debby downer...

What has your base training been like since October?

Yeah, I'm not expecting a drop into the 1:30's. I just don't really know where it will end up. If I hit anywhere in the 1:40's I'm happy.

I've been running about 3 days a week since October, anywhere from 4-5 miles each time. I'll be ramping up the next several weeks as I get closer to the 12 week countdown.

 

[koby925]

ChiefD, what's your height/weight? Has the weight come down dramatically since running 2:05 and 1:52? Know what you run for a 5k? What pace is a "normal" run for you - i.e. your typical 4-6 mile runs. These may help assess what gains you can make in the Half. But agree that at some point, you can't expect continued huge gains.

 

[worrierking]

I am definitely "The Justifier Guy." Give me a couple more years and I will be "Naked Old Guy."

 

[sho nuff]

Pretty sure I am sweaty guy...but I do wipe it down after.

Justifier at times too.

Especially this time of year when CFA has the peppermint chocolate chip milkshakes.

 

[BassNBrew]

Last day for the Massenutten 100 lottery entry. Good news is that the entries are down this year. Very surprising news, but at the moment it's 352 with 6 hours remaining. Prior 4 years were 411, 413, 416, and 438. They take 208. I still have five open slots above my lottery assignment and four to the south. Bascially gives me an extra 0.9% chance of getting in. Dow closing number and direction at the market close on Friday will be the selection basis.

After screwing off for to long and getting my weight up to 242, I've been pretty diligent this year albeit it painstakingly slow.

Jan 1 - 11 mile trail run. 1119 ft climb, 145 average hr, 12'14" pace, 2h13m.

Jan 2 - 8.1 mile trail run. 1047 ft climb, 132 average hr, 15'00" pace, 2h0m. Walked all of the uphills.

Jan 3 - 10 mile road run. 722 ft climb, 142 average hr, 11'32 pace, 1h55m. Walked some of the uphills.

Jan 5 - 5 mile trail + 5.1 mile road. 1106 ft climb, 129 average hr, 13'38" pace. Walk most of the uphills.

Jan 7 - 6 miles road run. 217 ft climb, 151 average hr, 10'00" pace.

45.2 miles for the week in some pretty miserable weather. Will step back this week and add in a bike session.

 

[ChiefD]

ChiefD, what's your height/weight? Has the weight come down dramatically since running 2:05 and 1:52? Know what you run for a 5k? What pace is a "normal" run for you - i.e. your typical 4-6 mile runs. These may help assess what gains you can make in the Half. But agree that at some point, you can't expect continued huge gains.

I'm about 5'7. Started out at 172 and right now about 155. My lowest point has been 150, which was right before Race Day both in the spring and fall of last year. Don't see myself getting much less than that. I lost all of the weight before the first half.

As far as pace is concerned, a normal pace right now would be anywhere from 8:40 to 9:20. But I'll also say, right now I have not pushed myself since October, so I've been trying to run at a nice even pace right now.

When I was ramping up to the 1/2 in October, I was consistently in the 8:15 to 8:45 range, and ran about 8:23 for the last half.

I've never run a 5K as a race: the two 1/2's are the only 2 races I've run in my life.

 

[SteveC702]

Thanks (again) to Ned, I did my first heart rate monitor run as a baseline yesterday. Idea was to avg in the 7:30s but ended up going a bit faster than planned. Course is roads with some rolling hills. Here are the results:

Mile 1 - 7:36 Most of the first mile I was in the mid 120s, but HR was at 128/129 at mile marker

Mile 2 - 7:24 - Avg 136 this mile I started getting into the 130s and pretty steadily stayed there, setting the theme for the rest of the run

Mile 3 - 7:15 - Avg 137

Mile 4 - 7:12 - Avg 136

Mile 5 - 7:08 - Avg 138

Mile 6 - 7:20 - Avg 135

The highest my HR ever got was 143 going up a hill at around 4.5 miles. After the first mile I was only in the 120s on downhills. On flat ground I was pretty steadily averaged in the mid to high 130s throughout. So...HR guys...what do I make of this data? Also, an old thing I remember my HS coach doing...it took me just over 3 minutes for my HR to get back under the 70s post run and about 5 minutes for it to get back to my resting rate of low 50s.

Wow that's some low ### HR numbers. Juxt/tri are right... can't really know exactly what this means without a max HR. But...... How hard was this on a scale of 1-10? I'm going to take a WAG and say you're 175 or lower for max hr. Which means you're LSD should be under 130, tempo runs @ 155ish. Just a guess......

Thanks, Ned. Understood that I have to get a maxHR and tempo reading to figure out what this means. I actually did a tempo on a treadmill yesterday but forgot to bring the HR strap. D'oh! Ran 3 Miles in 17:58 (6:10/6:00/5:48) so it would've been a good indicator. I tested my HR on the treadmill while warming up and it was 132 at 7:45-8 min pace. Forgot to test it during or right after the tempo and by the time I remembered, .3 miles into my cooldown I was back down to 132-133. So anyway, I know I need more info but part of the reason I wanted to start with HR data is that I have suspected that my legs have been holding me back. And keeping me from training fast enough to see race results. 7:30s shouldn't be taxing my HR that much but all runs have been giving leg pain/soreness so I never want to push it. That was the first speed/tempo I've really done in awhile. I was actually pretty surprised that the pace felt as good as it did. I will try to get a MaxHR and/or a tempo HR in the next week or so.

I knew it! You have a lot of room to improve in your 10k/Half with more threshold work. Those HR numbers at 7x pace aren't that much higher than my data for that range.

 

[FUBAR]

There should be more races like otillo. That sounds awesome. Maybe better than an ironman

 

[SteveC702]

ChiefD, what's your height/weight? Has the weight come down dramatically since running 2:05 and 1:52? Know what you run for a 5k? What pace is a "normal" run for you - i.e. your typical 4-6 mile runs. These may help assess what gains you can make in the Half. But agree that at some point, you can't expect continued huge gains.

I'm about 5'7. Started out at 172 and right now about 155. My lowest point has been 150, which was right before Race Day both in the spring and fall of last year. Don't see myself getting much less than that. I lost all of the weight before the first half.

As far as pace is concerned, a normal pace right now would be anywhere from 8:40 to 9:20. But I'll also say, right now I have not pushed myself since October, so I've been trying to run at a nice even pace right now.

When I was ramping up to the 1/2 in October, I was consistently in the 8:15 to 8:45 range, and ran about 8:23 for the last half.

I've never run a 5K as a race: the two 1/2's are the only 2 races I've run in my life.

If you're 5-7 you can probably lose another 5-10 lbs or so over the next 3 months if you limit yourself to 1-2 fast food meals / unhealthy indulgences a week. As a general rule of thumb you pick up 2s/mi for every pound of fat you lose. (so roughly 26s/lb for a half).

You also run about the same pace as my wife and another one of my friends that are both about 1:40x runners with 1:36-1:39 ability. It's probably just a matter of more miles, a weekly tempo run of 4-6 miles and a long run of 10-15 every other week and you should see a decent amount of improvement. I agree with Koby though, run a 5K/10K and it should give you a decent estimate of what you can expect for a half. They also serve as really good workouts for half-marathon preparation.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Last day for the Massenutten 100 lottery entry. Good news is that the entries are down this year. Very surprising news, but at the moment it's 352 with 6 hours remaining. Prior 4 years were 411, 413, 416, and 438. They take 208. I still have five open slots above my lottery assignment and four to the south. Bascially gives me an extra 0.9% chance of getting in. Dow closing number and direction at the market close on Friday will be the selection basis.

After screwing off for to long and getting my weight up to 242, I've been pretty diligent this year albeit it painstakingly slow.

Jan 1 - 11 mile trail run. 1119 ft climb, 145 average hr, 12'14" pace, 2h13m.

Jan 2 - 8.1 mile trail run. 1047 ft climb, 132 average hr, 15'00" pace, 2h0m. Walked all of the uphills.

Jan 3 - 10 mile road run. 722 ft climb, 142 average hr, 11'32 pace, 1h55m. Walked some of the uphills.

Jan 5 - 5 mile trail + 5.1 mile road. 1106 ft climb, 129 average hr, 13'38" pace. Walk most of the uphills.

Jan 7 - 6 miles road run. 217 ft climb, 151 average hr, 10'00" pace.

45.2 miles for the week in some pretty miserable weather. Will step back this week and add in a bike session.

Good luck in the lottery, fingers crossed! And nice job on the training in 2014 so far. Some good climbing in there.

While I haven't had a good long run in awhile due mostly to schedule issues, I'm still getting out there. I got in 7 today with 1,000' of elevation, with the first 4.5 miles basically a warm up for 4 hill repeats - a section of fire road that is a little over a quarter mile that climbs about 70'. Doesn't sound like a lot of hill but it's a decent little climb that I push hard and am redlined by the time I get to the top. I don't really do any speed work, but I do want to work in more and more of what I consider "strength work" like hard hill repeats.

 

[BassNBrew]

Final numbers in for Massenutten 100. 364 lottery entries for 208 slots. 57.14% chance if you look at the raw numbers. That said, the lottery format changes that. My lottery number is 294 or 2.94 (last three digits) based on the DOW close on Friday.

If the DOW finishes up on Friday, I'm in if the last three digits end up anywhere in the range of 0.00 to 2.94 and 7.63 and 9.99. That's 532 out of a possible 1000 outcomes or 53.2% chance. Best possible spot on waitlist is 80.

If the DOW finishes down on Friday, I'm in if the last three digits end up anywhere in the range of 2.94 amd 9.10. That's 617 out of a possible 1000 slots or 61.7% chance. Best possible spot on waitlist is 70.

I'd don't think I'll make it off the wait list in either event. They automatically give entry to the top 42 on the wait list based on history of non-payers and drops. It's pretty much an auto-entry if you don't make it the year prior.

Gru, any chance you can sell all of you clients funds on Friday?

All, anyone want to start a rumor that the Fed is raising interest rates 2.0% sometime on Friday?

 

[beer 302]

Final numbers in for Massenutten 100. 364 lottery entries for 208 slots. 57.14% chance if you look at the raw numbers. That said, the lottery format changes that. My lottery number is 294 or 2.94 (last three digits) based on the DOW close on Friday.

If the DOW finishes up on Friday, I'm in if the last three digits end up anywhere in the range of 0.00 to 2.94 and 7.63 and 9.99. That's 532 out of a possible 1000 outcomes or 53.2% chance. Best possible spot on waitlist is 80.

If the DOW finishes down on Friday, I'm in if the last three digits end up anywhere in the range of 2.94 amd 9.10. That's 617 out of a possible 1000 slots or 61.7% chance. Best possible spot on waitlist is 70.

I'd don't think I'll make it off the wait list in either event. They automatically give entry to the top 42 on the wait list based on history of non-payers and drops. It's pretty much an auto-entry if you don't make it the year prior.

Gru, any chance you can sell all of you clients funds on Friday?

All, anyone want to start a rumor that the Fed is raising interest rates 2.0% sometime on Friday?

I'm in, whatever I can do to help a brother out! Nice training in that #### weather, had to be worse in the hills than what we had here and it was the suck here. You really are an ironman.

Duck/BnB, do you just factor in steep inclines for training runs? As much as I ##### about the hills around here I've come to realize that while there are a few good ones, they are fairly short and not frequent, even the trails I run aren't particularly hilly compared to what you guys are running. I feel like this is one area I'm really lacking in and it shows up every race. I'm trying to add in much more hill work to my routine to help compensate, just wondering how you guys prep for a 5000' climb race.

 

[Sand]

Final numbers in for Massenutten 100. 364 lottery entries for 208 slots. 57.14% chance if you look at the raw numbers. That said, the lottery format changes that. My lottery number is 294 or 2.94 (last three digits) based on the DOW close on Friday.

If the DOW finishes up on Friday, I'm in if the last three digits end up anywhere in the range of 0.00 to 2.94 and 7.63 and 9.99. That's 532 out of a possible 1000 outcomes or 53.2% chance. Best possible spot on waitlist is 80.

If the DOW finishes down on Friday, I'm in if the last three digits end up anywhere in the range of 2.94 amd 9.10. That's 617 out of a possible 1000 slots or 61.7% chance. Best possible spot on waitlist is 70.

I'd don't think I'll make it off the wait list in either event. They automatically give entry to the top 42 on the wait list based on history of non-payers and drops. It's pretty much an auto-entry if you don't make it the year prior.

Gru, any chance you can sell all of you clients funds on Friday?

All, anyone want to start a rumor that the Fed is raising interest rates 2.0% sometime on Friday?

I'm in, whatever I can do to help a brother out! Nice training in that #### weather, had to be worse in the hills than what we had here and it was the suck here. You really are an ironman.

Duck/BnB, do you just factor in steep inclines for training runs? As much as I ##### about the hills around here I've come to realize that while there are a few good ones, they are fairly short and not frequent, even the trails I run aren't particularly hilly compared to what you guys are running. I feel like this is one area I'm really lacking in and it shows up every race. I'm trying to add in much more hill work to my routine to help compensate, just wondering how you guys prep for a 5000' climb race.

Beer - prepare for hills by running hills. It is hard to prepare for them otherwise, IMO.

BnB - good luck! Make sure to warn me about BSG signups if you are going this year. I'd love to go again.

On a completely separate note, I saw an upcoming item I'm pretty excited about - the MIO Link. Optical wrist based ANT+ HR monitor. I hate the chest strap. Hate it - many times while running it feels like it restricts breathing. So this will cure me of that forever. Evidently it has a short battery life (7-9 hrs), so for super long races maybe not appropriate. But, for me, this will work for just about everything. And (2Y, listen), if put next to a 310 or 910 it will capture HR while swimming. Ned will be so jealous.

 

[2Young2BBald]

On a completely separate note, I saw an upcoming item I'm pretty excited about - the MIO Link. Optical wrist based ANT+ HR monitor. I hate the chest strap. Hate it - many times while running it feels like it restricts breathing. So this will cure me of that forever. Evidently it has a short battery life (7-9 hrs), so for super long races maybe not appropriate. But, for me, this will work for just about everything. And (2Y, listen), if put next to a 310 or 910 it will capture HR while swimming. Ned will be so jealous.

Trying to get my head around this, would you wear the 910 on one wrist and this on another, or both on the same? Having my swim HR and an accurate (at least some what) calorie burn would be mind blowing (and would likely tell me I need to work harder in the water).

 

[koby925]

Thanks (again) to Ned, I did my first heart rate monitor run as a baseline yesterday. Idea was to avg in the 7:30s but ended up going a bit faster than planned. Course is roads with some rolling hills. Here are the results:

Mile 1 - 7:36 Most of the first mile I was in the mid 120s, but HR was at 128/129 at mile marker

Mile 2 - 7:24 - Avg 136 this mile I started getting into the 130s and pretty steadily stayed there, setting the theme for the rest of the run

Mile 3 - 7:15 - Avg 137

Mile 4 - 7:12 - Avg 136

Mile 5 - 7:08 - Avg 138

Mile 6 - 7:20 - Avg 135

The highest my HR ever got was 143 going up a hill at around 4.5 miles. After the first mile I was only in the 120s on downhills. On flat ground I was pretty steadily averaged in the mid to high 130s throughout. So...HR guys...what do I make of this data? Also, an old thing I remember my HS coach doing...it took me just over 3 minutes for my HR to get back under the 70s post run and about 5 minutes for it to get back to my resting rate of low 50s.

Wow that's some low ### HR numbers. Juxt/tri are right... can't really know exactly what this means without a max HR. But...... How hard was this on a scale of 1-10? I'm going to take a WAG and say you're 175 or lower for max hr. Which means you're LSD should be under 130, tempo runs @ 155ish. Just a guess......

Thanks, Ned. Understood that I have to get a maxHR and tempo reading to figure out what this means. I actually did a tempo on a treadmill yesterday but forgot to bring the HR strap. D'oh! Ran 3 Miles in 17:58 (6:10/6:00/5:48) so it would've been a good indicator. I tested my HR on the treadmill while warming up and it was 132 at 7:45-8 min pace. Forgot to test it during or right after the tempo and by the time I remembered, .3 miles into my cooldown I was back down to 132-133. So anyway, I know I need more info but part of the reason I wanted to start with HR data is that I have suspected that my legs have been holding me back. And keeping me from training fast enough to see race results. 7:30s shouldn't be taxing my HR that much but all runs have been giving leg pain/soreness so I never want to push it. That was the first speed/tempo I've really done in awhile. I was actually pretty surprised that the pace felt as good as it did. I will try to get a MaxHR and/or a tempo HR in the next week or so.

I knew it! You have a lot of room to improve in your 10k/Half with more threshold work. Those HR numbers at 7x pace aren't that much higher than my data for that range.

Agree I need to do more threshold work and that I can bring the 10k and Half times down but let's not get crazy.

Tried a truer recovery run yesterday (6 miles in average of 7:43 pace) and the HR was pretty consistently between 128-132.

 

[Ned]

ChiefD, what's your height/weight? Has the weight come down dramatically since running 2:05 and 1:52? Know what you run for a 5k? What pace is a "normal" run for you - i.e. your typical 4-6 mile runs. These may help assess what gains you can make in the Half. But agree that at some point, you can't expect continued huge gains.

I'm about 5'7. Started out at 172 and right now about 155. My lowest point has been 150, which was right before Race Day both in the spring and fall of last year. Don't see myself getting much less than that. I lost all of the weight before the first half.

As far as pace is concerned, a normal pace right now would be anywhere from 8:40 to 9:20. But I'll also say, right now I have not pushed myself since October, so I've been trying to run at a nice even pace right now.

When I was ramping up to the 1/2 in October, I was consistently in the 8:15 to 8:45 range, and ran about 8:23 for the last half.

I've never run a 5K as a race: the two 1/2's are the only 2 races I've run in my life.

If you're running all of your runs at or near HM pace, you need to slow down... Higdon's easy runs, "run", and long Sunday runs should be around 9:15-9:30 if you're HM PR is 8:20.

 

[BassNBrew]

Sand - Started my weekly lacate to threshold indoor bike class today. Today was a 20 minute power assessment. Rode the first 5 minutes at 245, ramped that to a 250 average at the 10 min mark, and then slowly built that to 260 over the next 9 minutes. Final power number was 264 after the last minute surge. Most of the riding was at 167-168 hr moving to 172-173 the last 5 min. The sprint finish took me to 182. Average rpm was 77. Actually felt pretty good for only 3-4 rides in the last 5 months. I guess I'm going to set a stretch goal of 300 for the end of the 10 week class with 10% and 290 being the base goal.

A year later and a year older...

Started my weekly lacate to threshold indoor bike class today. Today was a 20 minute power assessment. Rode the first 5 minutes at 245, ramped that to a 250 average at the 10 min mark, and then slowly built that to 258 over the next 9 minutes. Final power number was 261 after the last minute surge. Didn't wear a hr monitor. Average rpm was 75 as I recall. Actually felt pretty good for only 2-3 rides in the last 6 months. I guess I'm going to set a stretch goal of 300 for the end of the 10 week class with and 290 being the base goal.

Note - I think last year I finished the class testing at 296.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Final numbers in for Massenutten 100. 364 lottery entries for 208 slots. 57.14% chance if you look at the raw numbers. That said, the lottery format changes that. My lottery number is 294 or 2.94 (last three digits) based on the DOW close on Friday.

If the DOW finishes up on Friday, I'm in if the last three digits end up anywhere in the range of 0.00 to 2.94 and 7.63 and 9.99. That's 532 out of a possible 1000 outcomes or 53.2% chance. Best possible spot on waitlist is 80.

If the DOW finishes down on Friday, I'm in if the last three digits end up anywhere in the range of 2.94 amd 9.10. That's 617 out of a possible 1000 slots or 61.7% chance. Best possible spot on waitlist is 70.

I'd don't think I'll make it off the wait list in either event. They automatically give entry to the top 42 on the wait list based on history of non-payers and drops. It's pretty much an auto-entry if you don't make it the year prior.

Gru, any chance you can sell all of you clients funds on Friday?

All, anyone want to start a rumor that the Fed is raising interest rates 2.0% sometime on Friday?

I'm in, whatever I can do to help a brother out! Nice training in that #### weather, had to be worse in the hills than what we had here and it was the suck here. You really are an ironman.

Duck/BnB, do you just factor in steep inclines for training runs? As much as I ##### about the hills around here I've come to realize that while there are a few good ones, they are fairly short and not frequent, even the trails I run aren't particularly hilly compared to what you guys are running. I feel like this is one area I'm really lacking in and it shows up every race. I'm trying to add in much more hill work to my routine to help compensate, just wondering how you guys prep for a 5000' climb race.

Beer - prepare for hills by running hills. It is hard to prepare for them otherwise, IMO.

I basically live at the base of 2,572' Mt. Tam, so just about every route I run has climbing built in. The trail system is really extensive, so I can start at any of my normal 3-4 trail heads and choose my own adventure at the intersections to put together any sort of distance and amount of climbing I want for that day. But even my "flat" 6-mile loop around two local lakes has 400' of climbing, although it's all just little rolling stuff.

That being said, unless I'm specifically working on strength via running up hills (like the hill repeats yesterday), I'm more often than not power hiking anything bigger than the rolling climbs. That's more specific to what I do in a race than running up them. I also try and make sure to work in extended climbs into my training - moving at a slow but steady clip up a 1000'-1500' climb over a mile or two is a different kind of challenge than getting up and over a 1/4 mile hill, and one that I think people transitioning to trails from the roads often underestimate.

But the point remains the same - to get stronger on hills you've got to hit some hills.

 

[Sand]

On a completely separate note, I saw an upcoming item I'm pretty excited about - the MIO Link. Optical wrist based ANT+ HR monitor. I hate the chest strap. Hate it - many times while running it feels like it restricts breathing. So this will cure me of that forever. Evidently it has a short battery life (7-9 hrs), so for super long races maybe not appropriate. But, for me, this will work for just about everything. And (2Y, listen), if put next to a 310 or 910 it will capture HR while swimming. Ned will be so jealous.

Trying to get my head around this, would you wear the 910 on one wrist and this on another, or both on the same? Having my swim HR and an accurate (at least some what) calorie burn would be mind blowing (and would likely tell me I need to work harder in the water).

ANT+ will travel a few inches in the water. It should be enough, though, to have my 310 and this thing on the same wrist and get HR. Cool, huh? I want it anyway to ditch the strap (it chafes, restricts breathing, and tends to die every year like clockwork). Definitely gonna try the water thing, though!

Sand - Started my weekly lacate to threshold indoor bike class today. Today was a 20 minute power assessment. Rode the first 5 minutes at 245, ramped that to a 250 average at the 10 min mark, and then slowly built that to 260 over the next 9 minutes. Final power number was 264 after the last minute surge. Most of the riding was at 167-168 hr moving to 172-173 the last 5 min. The sprint finish took me to 182. Average rpm was 77. Actually felt pretty good for only 3-4 rides in the last 5 months. I guess I'm going to set a stretch goal of 300 for the end of the 10 week class with 10% and 290 being the base goal.

A year later and a year older...

Started my weekly lacate to threshold indoor bike class today. Today was a 20 minute power assessment. Rode the first 5 minutes at 245, ramped that to a 250 average at the 10 min mark, and then slowly built that to 258 over the next 9 minutes. Final power number was 261 after the last minute surge. Didn't wear a hr monitor. Average rpm was 75 as I recall. Actually felt pretty good for only 2-3 rides in the last 6 months. I guess I'm going to set a stretch goal of 300 for the end of the 10 week class with and 290 being the base goal.

Note - I think last year I finished the class testing at 296.

Pretty darn good start, IMO. I'd hate to try and catch you on flat roads.

I had a spin class (we have a real cycling studio now, it's nice - bikes have power and all kinds of goodies) Tuesday and held 290-300W for 2x10' intervals. I consider that a major victory seeing as my biking in December was very slim. I had my HR monitor on - I was ending those intervals at 174 or so. That's hurtin' territory.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Anyone deal with foot problems and how did you work through them? I had plantar fasciatis this time last year and after 6 miserable months it finally went away (partially). I've basically cut out all sports and have just been running, about 20-25 miles a week but I'm now getting ready for a half marathon in April and now my foot is starting to hurt again. I've been to running stores and been outfitted with the right kind of shoes, roll my foot often with a lacrosse ball and try to roll with an ice bottle in the evening. The podiatrist's I've seen have proven to be worthless (except for my custom orthotics), but I doubt that I can prepare for a half marathon by utilizing spin workouts 75% of the time.

and SFBayDuck we must be practically neighbors as I'm in Novato.

 

[tri-man 47]

Anyone deal with foot problems and how did you work through them? I had plantar fasciatis this time last year and after 6 miserable months it finally went away (partially). I've basically cut out all sports and have just been running, about 20-25 miles a week but I'm now getting ready for a half marathon in April and now my foot is starting to hurt again. I've been to running stores and been outfitted with the right kind of shoes, roll my foot often with a lacrosse ball and try to roll with an ice bottle in the evening. The podiatrist's I've seen have proven to be worthless (except for my custom orthotics), but I doubt that I can prepare for a half marathon by utilizing spin workouts 75% of the time.

and SFBayDuck we must be practically neighbors as I'm in Novato.

Joe - I found this blog, which discusses the matter at length:

http://runblogger.com/2012/10/plantar-fasciitis-how-i-beat-my-long.html

The writer stresses the point near the end of focusing on points other than the foot, particularly addressing tight calf muscles. Maybe something in here will help.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Anyone deal with foot problems and how did you work through them? I had plantar fasciatis this time last year and after 6 miserable months it finally went away (partially). I've basically cut out all sports and have just been running, about 20-25 miles a week but I'm now getting ready for a half marathon in April and now my foot is starting to hurt again. I've been to running stores and been outfitted with the right kind of shoes, roll my foot often with a lacrosse ball and try to roll with an ice bottle in the evening. The podiatrist's I've seen have proven to be worthless (except for my custom orthotics), but I doubt that I can prepare for a half marathon by utilizing spin workouts 75% of the time.

and SFBayDuck we must be practically neighbors as I'm in Novato.

Joe - I found this blog, which discusses the matter at length:

http://runblogger.com/2012/10/plantar-fasciitis-how-i-beat-my-long.html

The writer stresses the point near the end of focusing on points other than the foot, particularly addressing tight calf muscles. Maybe something in here will help.

Joe - I was just going to suggest the same thing - I've had PF and achilles issues in the past and I'm convinced it's tight gastroc and soleus muscles in the calf that were the root cause. My calves are always tight and I find myself having to stop and stretch them a couple of times at the beginning of every run, but I went through a particularly rough stretch a couple of weeks ago where they just wouldn't loosen up at all. I went in to see my PT and he Graston'd the hell out of several knots he found in there, and they've been much better ever since. I've stepped up the self message of them at home as well, trying to keep the knots at bay. So at the very least get a massage stick or use that lacrosse ball and work your calves as well as what you're already doing with your feet.

 

[BassNBrew]

Anyone deal with foot problems and how did you work through them? I had plantar fasciatis this time last year and after 6 miserable months it finally went away (partially). I've basically cut out all sports and have just been running, about 20-25 miles a week but I'm now getting ready for a half marathon in April and now my foot is starting to hurt again. I've been to running stores and been outfitted with the right kind of shoes, roll my foot often with a lacrosse ball and try to roll with an ice bottle in the evening. The podiatrist's I've seen have proven to be worthless (except for my custom orthotics), but I doubt that I can prepare for a half marathon by utilizing spin workouts 75% of the time.

and SFBayDuck we must be practically neighbors as I'm in Novato.

I do heavy single legged calf raises x 10 reps and them leave the weight on and stretch for 10 seconds at the end. By heavy I mean to the point your Achilles feels like it would tear. I used to do them every day in the gym when I had achy feet and it resolved the issue.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Thanks for the info as I hadn't even thought about the issue starting in the calf, I'll start rolling them out asap. I also wear compression sleeves for 10+ mile runs and then put on a pair of compression socks after the long runs to help with circulation but I have the skinniest damn calves and even x-small still feels a bit loose.

 

[SteveC702]

Thanks (again) to Ned, I did my first heart rate monitor run as a baseline yesterday. Idea was to avg in the 7:30s but ended up going a bit faster than planned. Course is roads with some rolling hills. Here are the results:

Mile 1 - 7:36 Most of the first mile I was in the mid 120s, but HR was at 128/129 at mile marker

Mile 2 - 7:24 - Avg 136 this mile I started getting into the 130s and pretty steadily stayed there, setting the theme for the rest of the run

Mile 3 - 7:15 - Avg 137

Mile 4 - 7:12 - Avg 136

Mile 5 - 7:08 - Avg 138

Mile 6 - 7:20 - Avg 135

The highest my HR ever got was 143 going up a hill at around 4.5 miles. After the first mile I was only in the 120s on downhills. On flat ground I was pretty steadily averaged in the mid to high 130s throughout. So...HR guys...what do I make of this data? Also, an old thing I remember my HS coach doing...it took me just over 3 minutes for my HR to get back under the 70s post run and about 5 minutes for it to get back to my resting rate of low 50s.

Wow that's some low ### HR numbers. Juxt/tri are right... can't really know exactly what this means without a max HR. But...... How hard was this on a scale of 1-10? I'm going to take a WAG and say you're 175 or lower for max hr. Which means you're LSD should be under 130, tempo runs @ 155ish. Just a guess......

Thanks, Ned. Understood that I have to get a maxHR and tempo reading to figure out what this means. I actually did a tempo on a treadmill yesterday but forgot to bring the HR strap. D'oh! Ran 3 Miles in 17:58 (6:10/6:00/5:48) so it would've been a good indicator. I tested my HR on the treadmill while warming up and it was 132 at 7:45-8 min pace. Forgot to test it during or right after the tempo and by the time I remembered, .3 miles into my cooldown I was back down to 132-133. So anyway, I know I need more info but part of the reason I wanted to start with HR data is that I have suspected that my legs have been holding me back. And keeping me from training fast enough to see race results. 7:30s shouldn't be taxing my HR that much but all runs have been giving leg pain/soreness so I never want to push it. That was the first speed/tempo I've really done in awhile. I was actually pretty surprised that the pace felt as good as it did. I will try to get a MaxHR and/or a tempo HR in the next week or so.

I knew it! You have a lot of room to improve in your 10k/Half with more threshold work. Those HR numbers at 7x pace aren't that much higher than my data for that range.

Agree I need to do more threshold work and that I can bring the 10k and Half times down but let's not get crazy.

Tried a truer recovery run yesterday (6 miles in average of 7:43 pace) and the HR was pretty consistently between 128-132.

Got some more HR data today. Progressed from the slower range of my easy/recovery run pace to the faster range.

Treadmill run (recently calibrated) @ 6000-6300 ft altitude

Mile 1 - 8:00 (AHR - 119)

Mile 2 - 7:53 (AHR - 122)

Mile 3 - 7:47 (AHR - 124)

Mile 4 - 7:41 (AHR - 127)

Mile 5 - 7:35 (AHR - 130)

Mile 6 - 7:30 (AHR - 132)

Mile 7 - 7:24 (AHR - 133)

(quick 3 min bathroom break).. ran next half mile in @ 7:30 pace to get back heart rate back up again then...

Mile 7.5-8.5 - 7:13 (AHR - 135)

Mile 8.5-9.5 - 6:58 (AHR - 137)

 

[Juxtatarot]

but I have the skinniest damn calves and even x-small still feels a bit loose.

 

[Sand]

So this is an example of the crazy ####ers I get to ride with here: 20,500 miles ridden with 2.1mil feet of climbing... Insanity.

 

[tri-man 47]

So this is an example of the crazy ####ers I get to ride with here: 20,500 miles ridden with 2.1mil feet of climbing... Insanity.

Goodness. I can't get past the 27+ hours per week and the near-400 miles per week ...much less the elevation thrown in. Crazy, crazy, crazy.

 

[gruecd]

...but I have the skinniest damn calves and even x-small still feels a bit loose.

Didn't know tri-man had an alias on here...

 

[beer 302]

...but I have the skinniest damn calves and even x-small still feels a bit loose.

Didn't know tri-man had an alias on here...

Happy birthday funny man