Ran a 10k in June (6 Viewers)

[SteveC702]

Yeah did Grue ever get that surgery? I am (knocking on wood) cautiously optimistic that I am avoiding surgery. PT has done wonders. I'm only up to 4 miles every other day but man it feels good to get back out there.

He didn't, and from talking to him on Saturday afternoon it seems like he may be okay with just some time off after the marathon. The original diagnosis/suggestion for surgery seemed to have come from yet another sports medicine doc that has no business practicing.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Wilked, why do you think your heart rate was so much higher this year?

 

[koby925]

Yeah did Grue ever get that surgery? I am (knocking on wood) cautiously optimistic that I am avoiding surgery. PT has done wonders. I'm only up to 4 miles every other day but man it feels good to get back out there.

He didn't, and from talking to him on Saturday afternoon it seems like he may be okay with just some time off after the marathon. The original diagnosis/suggestion for surgery seemed to have come from yet another sports medicine doc that has no business practicing.

Cool. Good to hear he fended off surgery. Not about the quack doc. He is probably religiously doing the exercise/PT work. MY PT guy has me doing a lot of the same hip things Grue suggested and it really helps if it's something that can be helped.

 

[ThreeThousand]

Wilked Boston Marathon Write-Up

First, my splits

Distance Elapsed Time 5K Split5k 0:26:24 0:26:2410k 0:52:12 0:25:4815k 1:18:10 0:25:5820k 1:43:54 0:25:44Half 1:49:34 25k 2:10:46 0:26:5230k 2:42:32 0:31:4635k 3:18:50 0:36:1840k 3:53:01 0:34:11Finish 4:10:14 Last year I finished Boston in 3:42. It was my second marathon and I wrote all about it here.
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=302486&page=808#entry15487506
Since then I have been training hard, following a rough Hal Higdon plan roughly and putting in my 20-40 miles a week. My PR for a half marathon is 1:39 and the calculators seemed to think I can do a 3:27. I also used the Yasso estimator and could repeatably hit 3:30 800 yard repeat sprints. OK, put it all together and I was going to go after a conservative 3:38 this year, something like an 8:20 pace.

We got to Runner's Village and I waited in the 35 min bathroom line, later found some sunscreen, and overall was ready to go. I felt good, weather was nice - still a little chilly to stand around in short sleeves but warming. Once they called our group off we went.

Miles 1-2 - Very congested, seemed to be moreso than last year. I planned on 8:30s through here ('warming up') but couldn't really maintain that pace with the others blocking the way. As a result I did what I said I wouldn't and was playing dodge-the-guy in front of you. There is an uphill at 1.5 and people were slowing to a 10 min pace...had to really make moves to get around them. I came out of the 2 miles at 8:33 pace - almost perfect. Then I realized my heartrate was at mid-high 150s, the upper end of my aerobic zone. Slight concern, but figured once I settled in I would be fine.

Miles 2-9 I planned to get into a groove at 8:20. I see now that I was closer to 8:10/8:15 through here. I was sweating a decent bit as well, something that I wasn't planning on this early. The sun was blasting and we didn't get shade all day. The runners had thinned enough that I wasn't dodging as much, but by this point I was watching my heartrate closely. You can see from the splits that I slowed a couple times closer to 8:30 to try and get the heartrate down but it wasn't budging. Still, I figured if I can keep it in the 150s I should be ok. Still feeling strong, miles were coming along easily.

I should mention the crowds, they were fantastic. I was pretty animated, slapping plenty of hands and shouting to the crowd, having fun. Great signs throughout (my favorite was "I do my marathons on Netflix") bands, just very positive.

So at Mile 9 I am averaging 8:20 and feeling fine, but worried about the high heartrate. Logically I knew I should slow, but competitively I had to keep pushing, couldn't give back that time I had built up to this point. Miles 9-16 I planned to pick it up to 8:10 pace. I picked it up for a couple miles and watched the heartrate climb into the low 160s, which I knew meant leaving aerobic zone. Soon I slowed back down to 8:20/8:30 pace but the heartrate wouldn't stop climbing. At this point I knew I was in trouble and that it was only a matter of time. Fatigue began setting in, which didn't worry me much, but I knew cramps were nearby. My wife/family/friends were at Mile 14.5 so I just focused on that. At this point I was still on a 8:17 pace.

Seeing my family and friends was awesome... I stopped for a couple minutes for photos, hugs. I wanted to warn them that disaster was near for me but before I knew it I was back in the crowd bounding off.

Mile 15 or so is when the quad started twitching, and at Mile 16.5 (beginning of the Newton Hills) shows the first cramp where I had to stop. I massaged it and kept moving, but a mile later it was back in force. At Mile 19 I ducked into the Medical Tent and a nice woman gave me a massage. It felt better, but within a mile I was right back where I started, cramping hard. I was run/walking from this point forward. I tried another Medical Tent at 21, but they were busy with others... I used the time to take a breath and then headed back out.

The crowds at BC were awesome and in Brookline to the finish. They were cheering hard to get me to run if I was walking and I did my best - honestly they carried me through. Those last 5 miles I managed a handful of 9:00 pace quarter-mile splits, run til the muscles locked, then walk til they loosened a bit and repeat. I caught up with a few team-members and as we turned onto Boylston we ran straight down to the finish, crossing with our arms raised. Finished at 4:10, 28 mins slower than last year and with severe positive split.

So that's that, toughest run I have ever done and in stark contrast to last year's run. I am still not sure what changed so drastically this year...weather was warmer but not excessive, pace was a little quicker but not excessive. I was sick last week but seemed ok. Maybe it was a combo of all of these things.

Lesson learned - heartrate doesn't lie. I plan to start running more to it than pace going forward, not looking forward to putting myself in that spot again. Still it was a helluva day and I was glad to be a part of it.

Heartrate Graph (2013 vs 2014) - http://i59.tinypic.com/126efq9.jpg
Pace Graph (2013 vs 2014) - http://i61.tinypic.com/17cpdw.png

I only put up first 14 as my pace went all over the place afterward

Full run here - http://connect.garmin.com/activity/484931624

Wilked - where did you qualify?

 

[gruecd]

Where's grue? I'm amazed he was able to run a 3:48 on a bum hip and little to no training.

Thanks, Ned. Yeah, I couldn't have really expected much better considering the circumstances (injured and woefully undertrained). As I expected, felt pretty decent through the first 20-21, and then my legs were toast. Shuffled the rest of the way with a few short walk breaks.

Most importantly, I don't feel any worse now than I did before the race. Gonna take a little time off now and hopefully get this thing healed up so that I can hopefully run a couple of good races this fall. Targeting the Erie Marathon in September and my annual 50K in October.

To Steve's point (great race, btw), one of the docs who pushed for surgery is actually a nationally-recognized orthopedic surgeon. It's not that his diagnosis is necessarily wrong, but it not necessarily right, either, and I just want to exhaust all conservative forms of treatment before doing something drastic like having my hip scoped (which might or might not even fix anything). Then again, it really shouldn't shock anyone that a surgeon is pushing for surgery.

Great race by Wilked, too!

 

[tri-man 47]

Most importantly, I don't feel any worse now than I did before the race.

 

[wilked]

Wilked, why do you think your heart rate was so much higher this year?

Good question, not really sure... At this point I am just chalking it up to 'one of those days'.

To the earlier question, I was a charity runner, did not qualify. I have a BQ on my bucket list, maybe 40 or 45 years old though

 

[Annyong]

Pretty pumped that 23 days into April I have already matched my highest monthly mileage ever. Granted it's only 86 miles, but I am pretty excited to get up and past 100 mpm

 

[SFBayDuck]

Pretty pumped that 23 days into April I have already matched my highest monthly mileage ever. Granted it's only 86 miles, but I am pretty excited to get up and past 100 mpm

I read all your posts in Ken Jeong's voice from The Hangover.

Congrats on the new monthly PR. Beware increased penis chaffing as you push the mileage.

On another note, are you in Atlanta? I'm there next week, staying at the Marriott Marquis downtown. Any trails nearby I can run to?

 

[Annyong]

Pretty pumped that 23 days into April I have already matched my highest monthly mileage ever. Granted it's only 86 miles, but I am pretty excited to get up and past 100 mpm

I read all your posts in Ken Jeong's voice from The Hangover.

Congrats on the new monthly PR. Beware increased penis chaffing as you push the mileage.

On another note, are you in Atlanta? I'm there next week, staying at the Marriott Marquis downtown. Any trails nearby I can run to?

I'M NOT ASIAN, DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!

and no, I am not in Atlanta. I am a Chicago area guy. This was an alias given to me by the lovely YSR after a few of my other accounts (Boom King, SuperAwesomeDude and a couple others I cant remember) were banned for some reason until 2015 or 3015 a few years ago.

 

[Sand]

Heartrate Graph (2013 vs 2014) - http://i59.tinypic.com/126efq9.jpg

Just not your race this year. That kind of difference is pretty striking.

----

Hey 2Y - my first race specific workout - SRSR mondo brick workout. Did my normal thing for the first 1500yd swim - 1000yds of standard work then a 500yd at 6:40 or so. Then 3 miles at 7:50/mi (these were hard). I figured I would die on the second swim, but I ended up kinda hitting a nice endurance pace and did 2 500yd sets at 6:50 and 7:05 or similar. Was going to finish up with a 2 mile run, but cut it after one. Having never done this kind of workout I didn't anticipate that my 100% polyester swimsuit would start to chafe in a pretty bad area. Easily could have completed it, as I was feeling pretty good. The whole thing took about 1:20 or so. Pretty cool, as this is the first time in a long time that I have done a 2,500yd swim workout.

 

[Sand]

I'M NOT ASIAN, DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!


and no, I am not in Atlanta. I am a Chicago area guy. This was an alias given to me by the lovely YSR after a few of my other accounts (Boom King, SuperAwesomeDude and a couple others I cant remember) were banned for some reason until 2015 or 3015 a few years ago.

The whole not Asian thing =

Getting an account banned until 3015 =

 

[parasaurolophus]

I find this time of year very hard to stay motivated. I got used to the cold and managed to still run a ton outside in this brutal winter. Then I get some good weather and it was great to just head out in shorts and a tshirt. Now it is cold again and it seems like it is even colder than the winter. Blew off my run last night for the first time in forever. I long for the times where I dont have to check the weather before I head out. Where I dont have to calculate for 17 degree swings that make a huge difference in comfort. I am tired of having my hands go numb.

Think maybe I need to run a 5k this saturday to kick my ### in gear.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I long for the times where I dont have to check the weather before I head out.

I check the weather all year long -- coldness, windspeed, rain/snow, suck index...

 

[MAC_32]

I find this time of year very hard to stay motivated. I got used to the cold and managed to still run a ton outside in this brutal winter. Then I get some good weather and it was great to just head out in shorts and a tshirt. Now it is cold again and it seems like it is even colder than the winter. Blew off my run last night for the first time in forever. I long for the times where I dont have to check the weather before I head out. Where I dont have to calculate for 17 degree swings that make a huge difference in comfort. I am tired of having my hands go numb.

Think maybe I need to run a 5k this saturday to kick my ### in gear.

Stole my thunder, you need to sign up for a race to get you going. I've put a few on my radar in case I hit a lull, but I haven't yet. Been a very strong month. Did 4 miles in just over 24 minutes Monday then came back with a killer track workout yesterday

10 jump squats (5 sets)

10 push up's (8 sets)

20 lunges (8 sets)

10 dips (5 sets)

100 m sprint (10 sets)

jog remaining 300 m in between exercises

1/4 mile warm up and cool down for 3 miles total.

Going to hit the trails for a brisk run today (5 or 6?) before going low and slow this weekend.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Warning: boring heart rate story follows.

I had planned to do some speed work last night but a half mile into the warm up I realized I was hungry and I never run well hungy. I decided to turn it into easy run instead and ended up running 8 miles.

I was running easier than I normally do (even for easy runs) and noticed during mile 7 that my HR was in the mid 120s. I didn't remember having a HR that low in over a year. I stopped running recovery runs after Boston Marathon training last year so I've always been at least into the 130s since. Anyway, seeing that I was so low I decided to play a HR game that I used several times during recovery runs last year. The goal of the game was to run at least a 9:00 mile yet have a heart rate average below 120. I never made it. I even remember being close one time and turning into a snowy field instead of going up a hill because I was worried about the heart rate spike. I finished at 121 average that time but that was the closest.

So anyway, yesterday after noticing my heart rate dip in the mid 120s, I decided to try this game again and see if I could do it. Well, it was easy. I ended that 8th mile at 8:47/118 average. I was even going against the wind over half of that mile.

I'm really surprised by this and am wondering why my heart rate was so low. Since I haven't been running at that pace at all recently, I would have assumed my body wouldn't be used to it and would require a higher heart rate. I was running 60 + mile weeks last year when I was attempting this so I know my endurance was better than it is now. Maybe it was just one of those good days (although it didn't feel like a good day)? Maybe during marathon training the chronic fatigue set in and I'm fresher now? Or (and hopefully this is it) maybe all the faster running I've been doing has been paying off?

 

[Sammy3469]

Wilked, why do you think your heart rate was so much higher this year?

Good question, not really sure... At this point I am just chalking it up to 'one of those days'.

To the earlier question, I was a charity runner, did not qualify. I have a BQ on my bucket list, maybe 40 or 45 years old though

FWIW, I wouldn't discount the sickness as much as you seem to be doing. I've been had strep twice now (stupid toddler son) this winter and while the stamina and strength is there for regular workouts, once I go beyond those parameters my body goes to hell.

 

[Ned]

Warning: boring heart rate story follows.

I had planned to do some speed work last night but a half mile into the warm up I realized I was hungry and I never run well hungy. I decided to turn it into easy run instead and ended up running 8 miles.

I was running easier than I normally do (even for easy runs) and noticed during mile 7 that my HR was in the mid 120s. I didn't remember having a HR that low in over a year. I stopped running recovery runs after Boston Marathon training last year so I've always been at least into the 130s since. Anyway, seeing that I was so low I decided to play a HR game that I used several times during recovery runs last year. The goal of the game was to run at least a 9:00 mile yet have a heart rate average below 120. I never made it. I even remember being close one time and turning into a snowy field instead of going up a hill because I was worried about the heart rate spike. I finished at 121 average that time but that was the closest.

So anyway, yesterday after noticing my heart rate dip in the mid 120s, I decided to try this game again and see if I could do it. Well, it was easy. I ended that 8th mile at 8:47/118 average. I was even going against the wind over half of that mile.

I'm really surprised by this and am wondering why my heart rate was so low. Since I haven't been running at that pace at all recently, I would have assumed my body wouldn't be used to it and would require a higher heart rate. I was running 60 + mile weeks last year when I was attempting this so I know my endurance was better than it is now. Maybe it was just one of those good days (although it didn't feel like a good day)? Maybe during marathon training the chronic fatigue set in and I'm fresher now? Or (and hopefully this is it) maybe all the faster running I've been doing has been paying off?

I don't think the faster running had much to do with it since faster running isn't going to do much for your aerobic capacity (i.e. low HR). One of the biggest things about marathon training is the cumulative fatigue. I'd bet my money that you weren't able to do this during the marathon cycle because of the wear and tear your body was going through.

Try this game again when you're at the beginning of week 3 in a marathon cycle (or did you retire from marathons?). I bet it'll come as easily as it did yesterday.

Oh, and :finger: for running a super easy recovery run so fast.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Try this game again when you're at the beginning of week 3 in a marathon cycle (or did you retire from marathons?). I bet it'll come as easily as it did yesterday.

I'm running the Chicago Marathon this fall. I'll certain try it again but since marathon training will be in the height of summer, I assume the suck index will take its toll.

 

[Ned]

Wilked Boston Marathon Write-Up

First, my splits

Distance Elapsed Time 5K Split5k 0:26:24 0:26:2410k 0:52:12 0:25:4815k 1:18:10 0:25:5820k 1:43:54 0:25:44Half 1:49:34 25k 2:10:46 0:26:5230k 2:42:32 0:31:4635k 3:18:50 0:36:1840k 3:53:01 0:34:11Finish 4:10:14 Last year I finished Boston in 3:42. It was my second marathon and I wrote all about it here.
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=302486&page=808#entry15487506
Since then I have been training hard, following a rough Hal Higdon plan roughly and putting in my 20-40 miles a week. My PR for a half marathon is 1:39 and the calculators seemed to think I can do a 3:27. I also used the Yasso estimator and could repeatably hit 3:30 800 yard repeat sprints. OK, put it all together and I was going to go after a conservative 3:38 this year, something like an 8:20 pace.

We got to Runner's Village and I waited in the 35 min bathroom line, later found some sunscreen, and overall was ready to go. I felt good, weather was nice - still a little chilly to stand around in short sleeves but warming. Once they called our group off we went.

Miles 1-2 - Very congested, seemed to be moreso than last year. I planned on 8:30s through here ('warming up') but couldn't really maintain that pace with the others blocking the way. As a result I did what I said I wouldn't and was playing dodge-the-guy in front of you. There is an uphill at 1.5 and people were slowing to a 10 min pace...had to really make moves to get around them. I came out of the 2 miles at 8:33 pace - almost perfect. Then I realized my heartrate was at mid-high 150s, the upper end of my aerobic zone. Slight concern, but figured once I settled in I would be fine.

Miles 2-9 I planned to get into a groove at 8:20. I see now that I was closer to 8:10/8:15 through here. I was sweating a decent bit as well, something that I wasn't planning on this early. The sun was blasting and we didn't get shade all day. The runners had thinned enough that I wasn't dodging as much, but by this point I was watching my heartrate closely. You can see from the splits that I slowed a couple times closer to 8:30 to try and get the heartrate down but it wasn't budging. Still, I figured if I can keep it in the 150s I should be ok. Still feeling strong, miles were coming along easily.

I should mention the crowds, they were fantastic. I was pretty animated, slapping plenty of hands and shouting to the crowd, having fun. Great signs throughout (my favorite was "I do my marathons on Netflix") bands, just very positive.

So at Mile 9 I am averaging 8:20 and feeling fine, but worried about the high heartrate. Logically I knew I should slow, but competitively I had to keep pushing, couldn't give back that time I had built up to this point. Miles 9-16 I planned to pick it up to 8:10 pace. I picked it up for a couple miles and watched the heartrate climb into the low 160s, which I knew meant leaving aerobic zone. Soon I slowed back down to 8:20/8:30 pace but the heartrate wouldn't stop climbing. At this point I knew I was in trouble and that it was only a matter of time. Fatigue began setting in, which didn't worry me much, but I knew cramps were nearby. My wife/family/friends were at Mile 14.5 so I just focused on that. At this point I was still on a 8:17 pace.

Seeing my family and friends was awesome... I stopped for a couple minutes for photos, hugs. I wanted to warn them that disaster was near for me but before I knew it I was back in the crowd bounding off.

Mile 15 or so is when the quad started twitching, and at Mile 16.5 (beginning of the Newton Hills) shows the first cramp where I had to stop. I massaged it and kept moving, but a mile later it was back in force. At Mile 19 I ducked into the Medical Tent and a nice woman gave me a massage. It felt better, but within a mile I was right back where I started, cramping hard. I was run/walking from this point forward. I tried another Medical Tent at 21, but they were busy with others... I used the time to take a breath and then headed back out.

The crowds at BC were awesome and in Brookline to the finish. They were cheering hard to get me to run if I was walking and I did my best - honestly they carried me through. Those last 5 miles I managed a handful of 9:00 pace quarter-mile splits, run til the muscles locked, then walk til they loosened a bit and repeat. I caught up with a few team-members and as we turned onto Boylston we ran straight down to the finish, crossing with our arms raised. Finished at 4:10, 28 mins slower than last year and with severe positive split.

So that's that, toughest run I have ever done and in stark contrast to last year's run. I am still not sure what changed so drastically this year...weather was warmer but not excessive, pace was a little quicker but not excessive. I was sick last week but seemed ok. Maybe it was a combo of all of these things.

Lesson learned - heartrate doesn't lie. I plan to start running more to it than pace going forward, not looking forward to putting myself in that spot again. Still it was a helluva day and I was glad to be a part of it.

Heartrate Graph (2013 vs 2014) - http://i59.tinypic.com/126efq9.jpg
Pace Graph (2013 vs 2014) - http://i61.tinypic.com/17cpdw.png

I only put up first 14 as my pace went all over the place afterward

Full run here - http://connect.garmin.com/activity/484931624

Man, I've been there; it's no fun. It's sooooo hard to listen to what your body (HR) was telling you. I still struggle with it, but as you found out it's a valuable tool.

Congrats on another marathon!

 

[Brony]

Pretty pumped that 23 days into April I have already matched my highest monthly mileage ever. Granted it's only 86 miles, but I am pretty excited to get up and past 100 mpm

Must have been some good coin you earned on that rickshaw.

 

[SFBayDuck]

I'M NOT ASIAN, DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!


and no, I am not in Atlanta. I am a Chicago area guy. This was an alias given to me by the lovely YSR after a few of my other accounts (Boom King, SuperAwesomeDude and a couple others I cant remember) were banned for some reason until 2015 or 3015 a few years ago.

The whole not Asian thing =

Getting an account banned until 3015 =

I know you are not Asian, but I'm still going to picture you as a small Asian boy - maybe the kid throwing firecrackers while Jesse's Girl plays in Boogie Nights. Until I get back to Chicago and actually get a chance to meet some of you guys, that is.

And the Chicago thing explains why I was surprised to see ATL under your avatar, as that didn't seem right. But I haven't updated my FFA notebook since Old Yeller, so I don't know who the hell is who half the time.

 

[Sand]

I feel incredibly unprepared for my trail HM this weekend, but dang if I'm not excited to get out there and mix it up. If I were in top shape, I think I could force my way into the top 10ish, but I'll still give'r hell and try to crack the top 20. A 1:48ish should put me there, but would need a <1:40 to get the top 10. The water levels in the creek will play a big part; we have rain forecasted for Friday, which may make this whole thing a giant mess. The more technical the better for me, so I'm praying we get a monsoon!

This must be a pretty tame trail for your times to fall only that much. My pace on trails drops a #### ton.

Its a mixed bag, but isn't really all that tame. About 1800' of climbing, 2 creek crossings, and some good technical sections with roots/rocks. There's definitely some easy stretches mixed in where you can really bank some time, but its all runnable. This definitely isn't your BnB or Duck adventure. There's maybe 1 hill I may have to power hike if I am gassed. I consider myself a pretty good technical runner and can run up front moreso than on the roads.

Just a small comment - if Steve's 2:30 deserves two solid :finger:s for being so damn fast then being able to knock out a trail HM with 135'/mile of climbing in it in the 1:45 range deserves at least one :finger:. That's really 'effing fast.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Warning: boring heart rate story follows.

I had planned to do some speed work last night but a half mile into the warm up I realized I was hungry and I never run well hungy. I decided to turn it into easy run instead and ended up running 8 miles.

I was running easier than I normally do (even for easy runs) and noticed during mile 7 that my HR was in the mid 120s. I didn't remember having a HR that low in over a year. I stopped running recovery runs after Boston Marathon training last year so I've always been at least into the 130s since. Anyway, seeing that I was so low I decided to play a HR game that I used several times during recovery runs last year. The goal of the game was to run at least a 9:00 mile yet have a heart rate average below 120. I never made it. I even remember being close one time and turning into a snowy field instead of going up a hill because I was worried about the heart rate spike. I finished at 121 average that time but that was the closest.

So anyway, yesterday after noticing my heart rate dip in the mid 120s, I decided to try this game again and see if I could do it. Well, it was easy. I ended that 8th mile at 8:47/118 average. I was even going against the wind over half of that mile.

I'm really surprised by this and am wondering why my heart rate was so low. Since I haven't been running at that pace at all recently, I would have assumed my body wouldn't be used to it and would require a higher heart rate. I was running 60 + mile weeks last year when I was attempting this so I know my endurance was better than it is now. Maybe it was just one of those good days (although it didn't feel like a good day)? Maybe during marathon training the chronic fatigue set in and I'm fresher now? Or (and hopefully this is it) maybe all the faster running I've been doing has been paying off?

You can run with your HR at 120? Are you 18 years old?

Does anyone track resting HR as a gauge of fitness, stress, overtraining, etc? I think I'm going to pick up a pulse oximeter to have on hand for my daughter's asthma, but figured I'd keep it on my bedside stand and start tracking RHR.

And the next level of HR nerdiness is HR variability. Anyone tracking that? They're always talking about it on the Endurance Planet podcast, but I haven't really considered it yet.

 

[beer 302]

Sand, how is the new HR watch working for you? I see TomTom jumped on that train...might have to ask for another Christmas present this year

 

[Ned]

Warning: boring heart rate story follows.

I had planned to do some speed work last night but a half mile into the warm up I realized I was hungry and I never run well hungy. I decided to turn it into easy run instead and ended up running 8 miles.

I was running easier than I normally do (even for easy runs) and noticed during mile 7 that my HR was in the mid 120s. I didn't remember having a HR that low in over a year. I stopped running recovery runs after Boston Marathon training last year so I've always been at least into the 130s since. Anyway, seeing that I was so low I decided to play a HR game that I used several times during recovery runs last year. The goal of the game was to run at least a 9:00 mile yet have a heart rate average below 120. I never made it. I even remember being close one time and turning into a snowy field instead of going up a hill because I was worried about the heart rate spike. I finished at 121 average that time but that was the closest.

So anyway, yesterday after noticing my heart rate dip in the mid 120s, I decided to try this game again and see if I could do it. Well, it was easy. I ended that 8th mile at 8:47/118 average. I was even going against the wind over half of that mile.

I'm really surprised by this and am wondering why my heart rate was so low. Since I haven't been running at that pace at all recently, I would have assumed my body wouldn't be used to it and would require a higher heart rate. I was running 60 + mile weeks last year when I was attempting this so I know my endurance was better than it is now. Maybe it was just one of those good days (although it didn't feel like a good day)? Maybe during marathon training the chronic fatigue set in and I'm fresher now? Or (and hopefully this is it) maybe all the faster running I've been doing has been paying off?

You can run with your HR at 120? Are you 18 years old?

Does anyone track resting HR as a gauge of fitness, stress, overtraining, etc? I think I'm going to pick up a pulse oximeter to have on hand for my daughter's asthma, but figured I'd keep it on my bedside stand and start tracking RHR.

And the next level of HR nerdiness is HR variability. Anyone tracking that? They're always talking about it on the Endurance Planet podcast, but I haven't really considered it yet.

@ 120. His mHR is so fricken' low. I bet his rHR is in the 30s.

I've loosely tracked rHR in the past. I think the best thing it will show is overtraining. I never got into a full habit of remembering to check it when I first woke up and bailed on it. I'm OCD and would forget to do it when I first woke up and wouldn't consider it a good readout if I checked it after hitting the bathroom. I had it stuck in my head that to get the real rHR, you gotta catch yourself right as you open your eyes.

I'd love to read more on the HR variability. Thanks for the link!

 

[Ned]

Sand, how is the new HR watch working for you? I see TomTom jumped on that train...might have to ask for another Christmas present this year

I really want one of these all in ones, but 3 data elements on the screen?

 

[beer 302]

Sand, how is the new HR watch working for you? I see TomTom jumped on that train...might have to ask for another Christmas present this year

I really want one of these all in ones, but 3 data elements on the screen?

I like mine (same watch just no built in HR monitor). You can mix & match what data points you display, don't use it a lot but when you are doing a certain distance or trying to hit a pace it's helpful to see it while HR is your main display. Alternatively the scroll feature on this watch makes it fairly easy to switch your main display without worrying about running into a telephone pole.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Warning: boring heart rate story follows.

I had planned to do some speed work last night but a half mile into the warm up I realized I was hungry and I never run well hungy. I decided to turn it into easy run instead and ended up running 8 miles.

I was running easier than I normally do (even for easy runs) and noticed during mile 7 that my HR was in the mid 120s. I didn't remember having a HR that low in over a year. I stopped running recovery runs after Boston Marathon training last year so I've always been at least into the 130s since. Anyway, seeing that I was so low I decided to play a HR game that I used several times during recovery runs last year. The goal of the game was to run at least a 9:00 mile yet have a heart rate average below 120. I never made it. I even remember being close one time and turning into a snowy field instead of going up a hill because I was worried about the heart rate spike. I finished at 121 average that time but that was the closest.

So anyway, yesterday after noticing my heart rate dip in the mid 120s, I decided to try this game again and see if I could do it. Well, it was easy. I ended that 8th mile at 8:47/118 average. I was even going against the wind over half of that mile.

I'm really surprised by this and am wondering why my heart rate was so low. Since I haven't been running at that pace at all recently, I would have assumed my body wouldn't be used to it and would require a higher heart rate. I was running 60 + mile weeks last year when I was attempting this so I know my endurance was better than it is now. Maybe it was just one of those good days (although it didn't feel like a good day)? Maybe during marathon training the chronic fatigue set in and I'm fresher now? Or (and hopefully this is it) maybe all the faster running I've been doing has been paying off?

You can run with your HR at 120? Are you 18 years old?

Does anyone track resting HR as a gauge of fitness, stress, overtraining, etc? I think I'm going to pick up a pulse oximeter to have on hand for my daughter's asthma, but figured I'd keep it on my bedside stand and start tracking RHR.

And the next level of HR nerdiness is HR variability. Anyone tracking that? They're always talking about it on the Endurance Planet podcast, but I haven't really considered it yet.

@ 120. His mHR is so fricken' low. I bet his rHR is in the 30s.

I've loosely tracked rHR in the past. I think the best thing it will show is overtraining. I never got into a full habit of remembering to check it when I first woke up and bailed on it. I'm OCD and would forget to do it when I first woke up and wouldn't consider it a good readout if I checked it after hitting the bathroom. I had it stuck in my head that to get the real rHR, you gotta catch yourself right as you open your eyes.

I'd love to read more on the HR variability. Thanks for the link!

I don't test resting HR much but I've seen it as low as in the mid 40s.

 

[FUBAR]

I've loosely tracked rHR in the past. I think the best thing it will show is overtraining. I never got into a full habit of remembering to check it when I first woke up and bailed on it. I'm OCD and would forget to do it when I first woke up and wouldn't consider it a good readout if I checked it after hitting the bathroom. I had it stuck in my head that to get the real rHR, you gotta catch yourself right as you open your eyes.

and it's just interesting.

Mine seems pretty consistent in the upper 40s.

but dang, the idea of running at 120? Think mine was there walking the dog earlier today.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Speaking of resting heart rates, I'm curious what others in this thread have. I know the max HR of others in the thread that post HR data but I don't recall anyone posting resting rates. When developing training ranges, I have the opinion that using heart rate reserve (% of max HR less resting HR) is better to use than only % of max.

 

[FUBAR]

Sand, how is the new HR watch working for you? I see TomTom jumped on that train...might have to ask for another Christmas present this year

I really want one of these all in ones, but 3 data elements on the screen?

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/04/tomtom-cardio.html

Looks like a solid review. Might be an early birthday present to me.

Speaking of gifts; just got my 6" x 36" roller!

 

[FUBAR]

Speaking of resting heart rates, I'm curious what others in this thread have. I know the max HR of others in the thread that post HR data but I don't recall anyone posting resting rates. When developing training ranges, I have the opinion that using heart rate reserve (% of max HR less resting HR) is better to use than only % of max.

How does that work? Say my max is 196, resting is 46. If I take 100% of my rHR off the mHR, that is still over my MAF.

 

[Sand]

Speaking of resting heart rates, I'm curious what others in this thread have. I know the max HR of others in the thread that post HR data but I don't recall anyone posting resting rates. When developing training ranges, I have the opinion that using heart rate reserve (% of max HR less resting HR) is better to use than only % of max.

When well rested my HR when I wake up is 46 or so.

but dang, the idea of running at 120? Think mine was there walking the dog earlier today.

Jeez, just walking out for my run when I do a couple limbering up jumps (you know, like this, but really not like that), my HR hits 110. I don't think I can walk at 120.

Sand, how is the new HR watch working for you? I see TomTom jumped on that train...might have to ask for another Christmas present this year

Don't know much about the TomTom. However, I really like what I have (Mio Link). Note mine is only a HR monitor, nothing else. It transmits ANT+ and some form of bluetooth. It is cool because I hated the chest strap (and broke them often) and I can finally get HR in the water. It does require that you put it on pretty tight (the band is super comfortable, though). And the charger is a bit of a pain. And it only lasts 8 hours on a charge - but for me this covers 100% of anything I've ever done, so maybe not for BnB or SF, but fine for the rest of us mortals. Enough for Steve to run 3 marathons!

 

[Juxtatarot]

Speaking of resting heart rates, I'm curious what others in this thread have. I know the max HR of others in the thread that post HR data but I don't recall anyone posting resting rates. When developing training ranges, I have the opinion that using heart rate reserve (% of max HR less resting HR) is better to use than only % of max.

How does that work? Say my max is 196, resting is 46. If I take 100% of my rHR off the mHR, that is still over my MAF.

Pfitzinger discusses it and has a chart about it in his Advanced Marathoning book. Here's an article I found online: http://www.runningforfitness.org/faq/hrzones

It probably won't make much a difference for most people but might if someone has a more narrow or wider range of resting to max HRs.

Edit: Here's an on-line caluclator.

 

[MAC_32]

Speaking of resting heart rates, I'm curious what others in this thread have. I know the max HR of others in the thread that post HR data but I don't recall anyone posting resting rates. When developing training ranges, I have the opinion that using heart rate reserve (% of max HR less resting HR) is better to use than only % of max.

When I did an experiment for a friend of mine's student a year and a half ago my resting heart rate was in the 50's and max was near 200 if I remember right.

 

[ThreeThousand]

Pretty pumped that 23 days into April I have already matched my highest monthly mileage ever. Granted it's only 86 miles, but I am pretty excited to get up and past 100 mpm

I read all your posts in Ken Jeong's voice from The Hangover.

Congrats on the new monthly PR. Beware increased penis chaffing as you push the mileage.

On another note, are you in Atlanta? I'm there next week, staying at the Marriott Marquis downtown. Any trails nearby I can run to?

Since no one answered this, I am in Atlanta, and no, there are no real trails near downtown. The closest thing I can think of is the Beltline:

http://beltline.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ABL-Trail-Map-Jan-2014.pdf

There's some stuff a little east of the city if you have a car - Stone Mountain has a nice, about 8 mile loop. Some stuff a little northwest, like the Silver Comet trail:

http://www.silvercometga.com/

 

[gruecd]

As far as I am concerned, I am 0-3 in Boston, but I'll be back one day, maybe sooner than I had planned.

Hell of a race, Steve. I really enjoyed meeting you and hanging out for a bit on Saturday.

And yeah, assuming I can get healthy, I'm kinda excited to get trained up and race for another BQ, hopefully at Erie in September. I can't quit Boston.

 

[gruecd]

For you non-Facebookers: Steve and me

 

[SteveC702]

Speaking of resting heart rates, I'm curious what others in this thread have. I know the max HR of others in the thread that post HR data but I don't recall anyone posting resting rates. When developing training ranges, I have the opinion that using heart rate reserve (% of max HR less resting HR) is better to use than only % of max.

My resting HR is usually 40-44 bpm, but gets down as low as 38-40 bpm when I am tapered and ready to roll. Usually when I feel drained from training for a few days I'll check it and if it's in the 45-48 range I'll know to back off.

I keep my easy days in the 115-130 bpm range as well. Usually that equates to about marathon pace + 1-2 min depending on how many days it's been since my last hard workout and how hard the workout was.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Speaking of resting heart rates, I'm curious what others in this thread have. I know the max HR of others in the thread that post HR data but I don't recall anyone posting resting rates. When developing training ranges, I have the opinion that using heart rate reserve (% of max HR less resting HR) is better to use than only % of max.

How does that work? Say my max is 196, resting is 46. If I take 100% of my rHR off the mHR, that is still over my MAF.

Pfitzinger discusses it and has a chart about it in his Advanced Marathoning book. Here's an article I found online: http://www.runningforfitness.org/faq/hrzones

It probably won't make much a difference for most people but might if someone has a more narrow or wider range of resting to max HRs.

Edit: Here's an on-line caluclator.

Plugging my data into that calculator fits my personal experiences perfectly:

127-141 Easy/Long-Slow/Recovery (I shouldn't be running @120 )

141-155 Aerobic zone

155-168 Anaerobic zone

168-182 VO2 max zone

 

[Juxtatarot]

Speaking of resting heart rates, I'm curious what others in this thread have. I know the max HR of others in the thread that post HR data but I don't recall anyone posting resting rates. When developing training ranges, I have the opinion that using heart rate reserve (% of max HR less resting HR) is better to use than only % of max.

My resting HR is usually 40-44 bpm, but gets down as low as 38-40 bpm when I am tapered and ready to roll. Usually when I feel drained from training for a few days I'll check it and if it's in the 45-48 range I'll know to back off.

I keep my easy days in the 115-130 bpm range as well. Usually that equates to about marathon pace + 1-2 min depending on how many days it's been since my last hard workout and how hard the workout was.

According to the calculator I posted, do you spend much time at all in the aerobic zone?

 

[Ned]

Sand, how is the new HR watch working for you? I see TomTom jumped on that train...might have to ask for another Christmas present this year

I really want one of these all in ones, but 3 data elements on the screen?

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/04/tomtom-cardio.html

Looks like a solid review. Might be an early birthday present to me.

Speaking of gifts; just got my 6" x 36" roller!

Ugh, I'm so close to preordering the runner cardio.

The lowest I've seen my rHR was 49; mHR is 196. All this chatter makes me want to experiment with HRR.

 

[Ned]

Speaking of resting heart rates, I'm curious what others in this thread have. I know the max HR of others in the thread that post HR data but I don't recall anyone posting resting rates. When developing training ranges, I have the opinion that using heart rate reserve (% of max HR less resting HR) is better to use than only % of max.

How does that work? Say my max is 196, resting is 46. If I take 100% of my rHR off the mHR, that is still over my MAF.

Pfitzinger discusses it and has a chart about it in his Advanced Marathoning book. Here's an article I found online: http://www.runningforfitness.org/faq/hrzones

It probably won't make much a difference for most people but might if someone has a more narrow or wider range of resting to max HRs.

Edit: Here's an on-line caluclator.

Plugging my data into that calculator fits my personal experiences perfectly:

127-141 Easy/Long-Slow/Recovery (I shouldn't be running @120 )

141-155 Aerobic zone

155-168 Anaerobic zone

168-182 VO2 max zone

I definitely think there's some credibility to training via HRR, but I think those ranges kind of suck for running, IMO. They're too broad.

As far as I am concerned, I am 0-3 in Boston, but I'll be back one day, maybe sooner than I had planned.

Hell of a race, Steve. I really enjoyed meeting you and hanging out for a bit on Saturday.

And yeah, assuming I can get healthy, I'm kinda excited to get trained up and race for another BQ, hopefully at Erie in September. I can't quit Boston.

Have you run Erie before? I'm kicking around the idea of trying a different fall marathon, and Erie is on the short list.

 

[gruecd]

Have you run Erie before? I'm kicking around the idea of trying a different fall marathon, and Erie is on the short list.

Yep, ran last year and DNF'd when my hip started hurting and I realized that I had no chance of BQing.Great race, though. Only $50, easy logistically, and it's super, super, super flat/fast. I think it has the 2nd-highest percentage of BQs among entrants. I will definitely register, and a local buddy of mine is considering it, too.

 

[Sand]

Speaking of resting heart rates, I'm curious what others in this thread have. I know the max HR of others in the thread that post HR data but I don't recall anyone posting resting rates. When developing training ranges, I have the opinion that using heart rate reserve (% of max HR less resting HR) is better to use than only % of max.

How does that work? Say my max is 196, resting is 46. If I take 100% of my rHR off the mHR, that is still over my MAF.

Pfitzinger discusses it and has a chart about it in his Advanced Marathoning book. Here's an article I found online: http://www.runningforfitness.org/faq/hrzones

It probably won't make much a difference for most people but might if someone has a more narrow or wider range of resting to max HRs.

Edit: Here's an on-line caluclator.

Plugging my data into that calculator fits my personal experiences perfectly:

127-141 Easy/Long-Slow/Recovery (I shouldn't be running @120 )

141-155 Aerobic zone

155-168 Anaerobic zone

168-182 VO2 max zone

Do you normally stay in your "aerobic" zone for typical runs? My ranges are a few clicks higher than yours, but I am always well into what they classify as the anaerobic zone for my road runs (which are my most numerous by far). Trail runs, on the other hand, are joyful sufferfests and clock in pretty damn high.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Speaking of resting heart rates, I'm curious what others in this thread have. I know the max HR of others in the thread that post HR data but I don't recall anyone posting resting rates. When developing training ranges, I have the opinion that using heart rate reserve (% of max HR less resting HR) is better to use than only % of max.

How does that work? Say my max is 196, resting is 46. If I take 100% of my rHR off the mHR, that is still over my MAF.

Pfitzinger discusses it and has a chart about it in his Advanced Marathoning book. Here's an article I found online: http://www.runningforfitness.org/faq/hrzones

It probably won't make much a difference for most people but might if someone has a more narrow or wider range of resting to max HRs.

Edit: Here's an on-line caluclator.

Plugging my data into that calculator fits my personal experiences perfectly:

127-141 Easy/Long-Slow/Recovery (I shouldn't be running @120 )

141-155 Aerobic zone

155-168 Anaerobic zone

168-182 VO2 max zone

Do you normally stay in your "aerobic" zone for typical runs? My ranges are a few clicks higher than yours, but I am always well into what they classify as the anaerobic zone for my road runs (which are my most numerous by far). Trail runs, on the other hand, are joyful sufferfests and clock in pretty damn high.

Yes, unless I'm doing a tempo run or speedwork, I'm in aerobic or lower. However, I do lots of miles in the 140s, even long runs. I probably should do more in that first zone but I've personally noticed the most performance gains when I pick things up a bit and run in the second zone.

 

[MAC_32]

I really should know this stuff, but I don't. What are names of the different training zones? I know, really vague question, which is why I have always hesitated to ask - difficult to answer bad questions. I've just been going by what I call the 5 levels

Level 1 - recovery pace --> feels like you are almost going too slow...very little if any impact on heart rate

Level 2 - comfortable pace --> there's a few ounces of effort behind it, but nothing too strenuous...my heart rate stays low throughout and it bounces back to normal almost immediately upon completion

Level 3 - uncomfortable pace --> usually focus more on maintaining stride length/speed early, last 20-30% of workout is challenging

Level 4 - 'uncle' pace --> when I get to the point in which I say 'uncle,' I take a step back. This is how I do most of my track/strength training workouts. When I get to the point in which I am straining to get a set of a particular exercise done, I stop. It's why in yesterday's workout I stopped doing jump squats after 5 sets, but still did 5 more sets of sprints. On level 4 run only days I usually really try to push the pace, but when I get to the point in which I want to vomit (near max heart rate) I slow down until my heart rate is under control again.

Level 5 - max effort/race pace --> there is not much difference between level 4 and level 5, how I finish is probably the only real difference. In level 4 when I get to an 'uncle' pace I take the foot off the pedel, but in level 5 I say f it and keep going anyway.

 

[SteveC702]

Speaking of resting heart rates, I'm curious what others in this thread have. I know the max HR of others in the thread that post HR data but I don't recall anyone posting resting rates. When developing training ranges, I have the opinion that using heart rate reserve (% of max HR less resting HR) is better to use than only % of max.

My resting HR is usually 40-44 bpm, but gets down as low as 38-40 bpm when I am tapered and ready to roll. Usually when I feel drained from training for a few days I'll check it and if it's in the 45-48 range I'll know to back off.

I keep my easy days in the 115-130 bpm range as well. Usually that equates to about marathon pace + 1-2 min depending on how many days it's been since my last hard workout and how hard the workout was.

According to the calculator I posted, do you spend much time at all in the aerobic zone?

I plugged in 40/190 and I would say "yes" to your question. 145-160 is generally what I do most of my long runs at. (marathon pace/effort + 10-20%). I can't find the one post I made back in December where I wore a HR per Ned's request and my MP corresponded to about 155-165 bpm.

I do see that the calculator lumps long run along with easy/slow/recovery as zone 1 and I don't agree with that when it comes to marathon training. All the credible marathon training books out there (Pfitz / Hanson / Jack daniels) advise long run pace to be MP + 10/20% when you're not doing specific MP work.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Speaking of resting heart rates, I'm curious what others in this thread have. I know the max HR of others in the thread that post HR data but I don't recall anyone posting resting rates. When developing training ranges, I have the opinion that using heart rate reserve (% of max HR less resting HR) is better to use than only % of max.

My resting HR is usually 40-44 bpm, but gets down as low as 38-40 bpm when I am tapered and ready to roll. Usually when I feel drained from training for a few days I'll check it and if it's in the 45-48 range I'll know to back off.

I keep my easy days in the 115-130 bpm range as well. Usually that equates to about marathon pace + 1-2 min depending on how many days it's been since my last hard workout and how hard the workout was.

According to the calculator I posted, do you spend much time at all in the aerobic zone?

I plugged in 40/190 and I would say "yes" to your question. 145-160 is generally what I do most of my long runs at. (marathon pace/effort + 10-20%). I can't find the one post I made back in December where I wore a HR per Ned's request and my MP corresponded to about 155-165 bpm.

I do see that the calculator lumps long run along with easy/slow/recovery as zone 1 and I don't agree with that when it comes to marathon training. All the credible marathon training books out there (Pfitz / Hanson / Jack daniels) advise long run pace to be MP + 10/20% when you're not doing specific MP work.

Thanks for answering. As I mentioned in my post to Sand, I have certainly noticed benefits when I get out of that first zone and into the second. I didn't realize you were running your long runs that fast. That makes me feel less guilty. Not that I'm ignoring the benefits of zone 1, but it's also important not to forget zone 2.