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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (17 Viewers)

@gianmarcoI obviously haven't been around here much and mostly popped in for States - when is your race?

You can definitely condition your quads to handle downhills, but you've got to be careful and make sure you have enough time to recover and absorb that training.  

 
J&J is a very consistent ~1.5% downhill grade.  There won't be much braking involved, which is what makes the grade so nice.  I don't think quads are going to be an issue.  That grade is almost imperceptible and will manifest itself more in "feel" than anything else.

Even uphill, 1.5% barely clocks in at material.

 
SFBayDuck said:
@gianmarcoI obviously haven't been around here much and mostly popped in for States - when is your race?

You can definitely condition your quads to handle downhills, but you've got to be careful and make sure you have enough time to recover and absorb that training.  
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Zasada said:
J&J is a very consistent ~1.5% downhill grade.  There won't be much braking involved, which is what makes the grade so nice.  I don't think quads are going to be an issue.  That grade is almost imperceptible and will manifest itself more in "feel" than anything else.

Even uphill, 1.5% barely clocks in at material.
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Race is 7/24, just under 4 weeks.

Yes, all reviews on J&J are that it doesn't really wreck the quads. It is ideal for me as a runner. 

Thanks for all the helpful replies so far. Definitely helping see the next few weeks more clearly.

 
So here's a totally off the subject question for you guys. Basically, a What Would You Do question:

So in my neighborhood there is a guy who runs quite a bit with his kids. He has two boys that runs with him. The two boys are probably something like 10 and 8 years old. Anyway, he runs these kids pretty hard. All the runs that I see are high intensity runs. If I had to guess they are running high 6's - low 7's in terms of pace.

So yesterday I see the boys coming up the hill toward my house on the sidewalk. I've seen them before so no big deal. A few seconds later comes a girl - probably 11 or 12 - and I guess immediately it's their sister. After another 5 seconds pass by and here comes dad, and he's running with presumably child #4.

Except this little girl is maybe 6 years old. And he's pushing her hard. This poor little girl is whimpering on the verge of busting out in tears. You can tell she's trying to hold it in, but she whimpers the whole time in front of my house and down the road.

The dad is all over her:

"You aren't going fast enough."

"You need to push harder."

"Come on, you're slowing down."

I am standing there watching this in shock, and whisper "what the ####" under my breath. They head on down the street and I can hear him still berating her half a block away.

I'm steamed at this point - I wanted to run after him and punch him right in the ####### face. I get back to doing my weedeating, just pissed about the whole thing. Anyway, about 5 minutes later here comes the boys again. 

Then the dad and the older girl. Clearly he dropped the little one off at home. He looks at me and gives me one of those hello waves and a smile.

I gave him probably the dirtiest glare I could muster, and his smile quickly went away. I didn't say anything, but man I really wanted to. If his daughter hadn't been there I probably would have.

Anyway, what does a guy do at this point?

 
ChiefD said:
Anyway, what does a guy do at this point?
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Shake your head and hope the kids end up ok. And by ok, I mean happy and no psychological damage (beyond what "normal"  parenting inflicts).  

I often wonder about instilling this kind of external pressure early on. Not something we believed in, with intent. Didnt want the kids looking to us or anybody else for their drive. But at the same time, certain things- especially physical things like sports- aren't happening too much. But i have no worries about my kids' drive or happiness...so :shrug: .

I guess bottom line, not your kids, not your concern. 

 
ChiefD said:
 "You aren't going fast enough."

"You need to push harder."

"Come on, you're slowing down."

I am standing there watching this in shock, and whisper "what the ####" under my breath. They head on down the street and I can hear him still berating  half a block away.

I'm steamed at this point - I wanted to run after him and punch him right in the ####### face. I get back to doing my weedeating, just pissed about the whole thing?
Click to expand...
Where were you a year and a half ago when I had to run with @gruecd??  Huh??!?

 
Okay since @gianmarcobrought up downhill running might as well pose a question I have on it. I am targeting a 5K race in mid October which has a net downhill of 400 feet but 175 or so of it is in the first 0.3 miles or so (guessing somewhere between 9 and 10 percent decline for that stretch). Do I need to to train for that type of downhill or since its the first part of the race and decline changes dramatically afterwards (225 feet for remaining 2.8 miles) just suck it up and get thru it? What should I do with regards to pacing myself thru that first stretch and then the remainder?

 
ChiefD said:
So here's a totally off the subject question for you guys. Basically, a What Would You Do question:

So in my neighborhood there is a guy who runs quite a bit with his kids. He has two boys that runs with him. The two boys are probably something like 10 and 8 years old. Anyway, he runs these kids pretty hard. All the runs that I see are high intensity runs. If I had to guess they are running high 6's - low 7's in terms of pace.

So yesterday I see the boys coming up the hill toward my house on the sidewalk. I've seen them before so no big deal. A few seconds later comes a girl - probably 11 or 12 - and I guess immediately it's their sister. After another 5 seconds pass by and here comes dad, and he's running with presumably child #4.

Except this little girl is maybe 6 years old. And he's pushing her hard. This poor little girl is whimpering on the verge of busting out in tears. You can tell she's trying to hold it in, but she whimpers the whole time in front of my house and down the road.

The dad is all over her:

"You aren't going fast enough."

"You need to push harder."

"Come on, you're slowing down."

I am standing there watching this in shock, and whisper "what the ####" under my breath. They head on down the street and I can hear him still berating her half a block away.

I'm steamed at this point - I wanted to run after him and punch him right in the ####### face. I get back to doing my weedeating, just pissed about the whole thing. Anyway, about 5 minutes later here comes the boys again. 

Then the dad and the older girl. Clearly he dropped the little one off at home. He looks at me and gives me one of those hello waves and a smile.

I gave him probably the dirtiest glare I could muster, and his smile quickly went away. I didn't say anything, but man I really wanted to. If his daughter hadn't been there I probably would have.

Anyway, what does a guy do at this point?
Click to expand...
This is the way my dad was with me. It really sucks as a child. I guess that’s why I always focus on my failures rather than successes. Tough spot for you, saying something isn’t going to change his parenting, but man I wish someone would’ve talked some sense into my dad. The kids will probably go through life with a chip on their shoulders. 

 
OrganizedChaos said:
Okay since @gianmarcobrought up downhill running might as well pose a question I have on it. I am targeting a 5K race in mid October which has a net downhill of 400 feet but 175 or so of it is in the first 0.3 miles or so (guessing somewhere between 9 and 10 percent decline for that stretch). Do I need to to train for that type of downhill or since its the first part of the race and decline changes dramatically afterwards (225 feet for remaining 2.8 miles) just suck it up and get thru it? What should I do with regards to pacing myself thru that first stretch and then the remainder?
Click to expand...
That short of a downhill won't wreck your quads for the race. But it's definitely something to practice so you don't get hurt doing it the first time.

Also, please let me know where this race is as I'm definitely in!

 
gianmarco said:
That short of a downhill won't wreck your quads for the race. But it's definitely something to practice so you don't get hurt doing it the first time.

Also, please let me know where this race is as I'm definitely in!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback. 😀 in Folsom, ca so a bit of a trip for you. Hoping I can do the race. Going to scout it out sometime to see if I could run by the road the race is on to experience that first quarter mile.

 
gianmarco said:
I'm getting a little ahead of myself since I'm still a month away, but I'm wondering how I'm going to manage race day.  If I'm seeing HRs of 145 and I'm 8-10 miles in, do I increase pace to try and elevate HR more?  Does running faster make it harder to finish the 26.2 on my legs than running slower (but being out there longer)?  I'm not worried about leaving time out there.  I don't care if I finish with 8:59/pace and feel great.  That won't bother me.  But do I have a better shot at doing that by pushing earlier on if the HR says to do so? 
Click to expand...
I'd say use HR as your high-end control to prevent blowing up.  If the HR is low ...and a check of your pacing shows you to be in good shape ...I'd say keep the pace steady and keep the HR low. Theoretically, that protects you against a blow up and/or allows you to pick things up later in the race.

 
OrganizedChaos said:
Okay since @gianmarcobrought up downhill running might as well pose a question I have on it. I am targeting a 5K race in mid October which has a net downhill of 400 feet but 175 or so of it is in the first 0.3 miles or so (guessing somewhere between 9 and 10 percent decline for that stretch). Do I need to to train for that type of downhill or since its the first part of the race and decline changes dramatically afterwards (225 feet for remaining 2.8 miles) just suck it up and get thru it? What should I do with regards to pacing myself thru that first stretch and then the remainder?
Click to expand...
You don't need to do anything, but strength work and practicing running steeper down hills will shave time race day. I wouldn't worry about pace through the first stretch at all - efficient strides are the priority. 

 
MAC_32 said:
You don't need to do anything, but strength work and practicing running steeper down hills will shave time race day. I wouldn't worry about pace through the first stretch at all - efficient strides are the priority. 
Click to expand...
Thank you. Started reading some articles on running downhill.

 
ChiefD said:
So here's a totally off the subject question for you guys. Basically, a What Would You Do question:

So in my neighborhood there is a guy who runs quite a bit with his kids. He has two boys that runs with him. The two boys are probably something like 10 and 8 years old. Anyway, he runs these kids pretty hard. All the runs that I see are high intensity runs. If I had to guess they are running high 6's - low 7's in terms of pace.

So yesterday I see the boys coming up the hill toward my house on the sidewalk. I've seen them before so no big deal. A few seconds later comes a girl - probably 11 or 12 - and I guess immediately it's their sister. After another 5 seconds pass by and here comes dad, and he's running with presumably child #4.

Except this little girl is maybe 6 years old. And he's pushing her hard. This poor little girl is whimpering on the verge of busting out in tears. You can tell she's trying to hold it in, but she whimpers the whole time in front of my house and down the road.

The dad is all over her:

"You aren't going fast enough."

"You need to push harder."

"Come on, you're slowing down."

I am standing there watching this in shock, and whisper "what the ####" under my breath. They head on down the street and I can hear him still berating her half a block away.

I'm steamed at this point - I wanted to run after him and punch him right in the ####### face. I get back to doing my weedeating, just pissed about the whole thing. Anyway, about 5 minutes later here comes the boys again. 

Then the dad and the older girl. Clearly he dropped the little one off at home. He looks at me and gives me one of those hello waves and a smile.

I gave him probably the dirtiest glare I could muster, and his smile quickly went away. I didn't say anything, but man I really wanted to. If his daughter hadn't been there I probably would have.

Anyway, what does a guy do at this point?
Click to expand...
This doesn't help with your specific situation, but some of our track and XC kids have these sorta parents. Can't say I recall any of it with six year old's, but....eight? nine? Yep. I think we've had success pushing them, but doing so in an overtly encouraging way. Not to say we don't with others, but we go out of our way to do so with these ones. They respond to pressure, but you can tell in how they react that it is in a positive manner because they're so used to negativity and criticism. 

 
@Dr_Zaius, it looks like you're vacationing in the same spot as someone I know here (and she happens to be running J&J next month as well).  You're both doing runs on Strava in the same spot  :)

 
gianmarco said:
@Dr_Zaius, it looks like you're vacationing in the same spot as someone I know here (and she happens to be running J&J next month as well).  You're both doing runs on Strava in the same spot  :)
Click to expand...
Cool!  I actually just returned home last night, but should be back for a few days next month.  It's a few miles up the road from Floppo's hideout.  I'm not surprised your friend is running the same routes, as your options are basically the main road or the shoreline.  I usually pick my direction based on the wind and go from there.

 
Dr_Zaius said:
Cool!  I actually just returned home last night, but should be back for a few days next month.  It's a few miles up the road from Floppo's hideout.  I'm not surprised your friend is running the same routes, as your options are basically the main road or the shoreline.  I usually pick my direction based on the wind and go from there.
Click to expand...
Whats this now?

 
Dr_Zaius said:
Was down in Bethany over the weekend.  We're not following each other on Strava, but I believe you're currently across the bay from OCMD, no?
Click to expand...
Yep! Land 'o hills.

I thought you might have been in NYC.

What are your initials on strava? MK for me...we should fix this follow thing.

 
El Floppo said:
Yep! Land 'o hills.

I thought you might have been in NYC.

What are your initials on strava? MK for me...we should fix this follow thing.
Click to expand...
MS.  Just hit follow for you (thought you used to be request only and that was why I wasn't following).  Request back and I'll accept.

gianmarco said:
Another bromance brewing....
Click to expand...
Doesn't one of us have to attempt to asphyxiate the other first?  I'm not sure who's supposed to take the lead there.  Maybe he can try to swim me to death and then I can try to get him lost in swampy cul de sac neighborhoods.

 
Dr_Zaius said:
MS.  Just hit follow for you (thought you used to be request only and that was why I wasn't following).  Request back and I'll accept.

Doesn't one of us have to attempt to asphyxiate the other first?  I'm not sure who's supposed to take the lead there.  Maybe he can try to swim me to death and then I can try to get him lost in swampy cul de sac neighborhoods.
Click to expand...
Baby steps.

So cute you guys have the same name too.

You'll know if you got the right guy if you see a brutal hill workout this morning from him.

Good luck, guys. Many years of happiness to you both.

 
Have been running inside with the heat, 5 mile MAF runs on the treadmill. Yesterday I ran the slowest of the bunch but it was so hot in my basement that my hr went above 150 and I had to slow it back even further. We had central air put into this house after it was built and didn't do the basement because the cold air drops so I usually just open the door and turn on a fan and it's fine.  Not this summer. Might need to invest in a mr slim or whatever they're called.

 
It's getting to be about time to put together some kind of plan to be ready for the Monumental... We are about 18 weeks out, if I can count correctly. I don't have the base built that I should but still have some goals in mind to try to do. Was googling some plans recently but need to actually put something on paper to try to keep me on target.

 
Well, my run this morning didn't go as planned. I wanted to hit that downhill section at my GMP and see what my HR did. The start of that section is almost 5 miles away so I was just going to run to it and get picked up at the end.

Luckily temps only in upper 70s and it was cloudy but with a dew point of 72, it was humid AF.  I initially was just going to run to the downhill easy but then, as I'm doing my 1st mile easy, I thought I might as well run miles 2-4 at GMP so I could compare to the downhill section. 

I felt decent those first couple, but the humidity and sweating plus the hills at that point got to me and by mile 4, my HR was at 170 and I realized my idea was toast. I tried stopping before the last 3 miles to reset my HR but it didn't matter. Plus, that route has a couple steep downhills but a lot of it is flat or with uphills. There was no way to try and get my HR back down.

So, while I didn't accomplish what I set out to, I did learn that, even though the downhills felt so much better even with the high HR, it won't fix a situation where I'm running too hot too early. It was a good lesson.

And in the end, I still did 6 miles at GMPish (considering the weather) with some elevation so it was a good workout. Plus, despite the HR, I felt pretty good out there for most of it. Funny thing is I felt just as spent afterward than I did my 16 mile run last week.

 
El Floppo said:
6/28/2021 at 4:48 PM, ChiefD said:
Anyway, what does a guy do at this point?
Click to expand...
Sitting at the pool in MD watching a dad lead his two sons (12 & 10 at a guess) and daughter (8ish) through a pretty grueling swim workout in the midday heat...got me thinking about your neighbor. But this guy is unemotional, supportive and hugely instructive with the kids, even when he had to pull the daughter back into the pool to finish her prescribed workout ("theres no way you finished that so quickly...are you sure youre clear what youre supposed to do there?"- and then clearly explained the drill as she got back in and completed it). Of he hadn't been so busy with them, I wanted to go over and give him a thumbsup and kudos.

 
@gianmarco was thinking about you and HRs and all while running last night and then while looking at my runs today. I know you have done a lot with MAF and really paying attention to HR. 3 times recently I have run the same route through downtown Indy along the canal. In all 3, I have basically just "run by feel" - i.e. barely looking at the watch, just basically looking to finish the 5 miles in ~ Here's the general info from them (all 3 exact same routes, all 3 pretty even/consistent effort) :

  1. 6/21 - 5 miles @ 8:50/mile, 70* temp, 53* DP, Avg HR: 153, last mile HR 165
  2. 6/23 - 5 miles @ 9:06/mile, 77* temp, 53* DP, Avg HR: 147, last mile HR 152
  3. 6/29 - 5 miles @ 9:10/mile, 85* temp, 73* DP, Avg HR: 154, last mile HR 161 (slowed down this time)
Not a lot of point to it but I thought it was interesting - namely that I had about the same physical/measurable HR last night while running 20 sec/mile slower than I had a about a week ago with really only the temp and dew point being different. Again, always have known that conditions lead to extra effort and all but just those 3 runs being basically equal except for changes in the weather were interesting to me. 

 
Apparently the fastest I ever ran that was a cool August evening 2 years ago when getting ready for the Monumental - 72*, 7:42/mile and avg HR @ 156. I obviously have a lot of work to do to get back to that kind of shape. 

 
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