Ran a 10k - Official Thread (6 Viewers)

[Zasada]

Ran a 6.5 mile trail "race" which had 3,500 feet of elevation. The first 3 miles had 2,500 feet. It was essentially up and down a ski mountain. It had four major hills. One stretch of 0.3 miles had a 40% grade and was about 800 feet of elevation.

This is all about prepping for the R2R2R I'll be doing with @gruecd and @Zasada in October.

My goal in 2023 is to do 15,000 feet of elevation a month. (For comparison, I did 10,000 feet a month last year.) I'm pleased I'm at 86,000 feet thus far in 2023 which puts me ahead of plan. I will also do several longer hillier hikes this summer as I try to make it so I don't embarass myself in the Grand Canyon.

For R2R2R, make sure you bomb some downhills. Long and hard. Blow up your quads. That will be the key for R2R2R. Everyone thinks it's the uphills that are key. And while they are long and draining, it's nothing that can't be solved with a slower pace. But if you blow up your quads on the first (5,000ft) descent into the canyon, you'll be hurting the rest of the day.

I've known some runners who had to resort to hiking backwards on the downhills during races because of early quad issues.

The good news is that usually four consecutive weeks of quad abuse (for me) gets them into prime shape.

 

[bushdocda]

Nice little hobby we’ve got here

 

[Zasada]

Re AC, my wife keeps it at 66-67 here in TX. I have to wear flannel pants and a heavy hoodie everywhere in the house. And throw a couple cats on me at night to stay warm.

Our monthly electric bill in the summer is crazy. Almost $900 last July.

Good news is that in the winter she's OK with not turning on the heat. So we offset a little then.

 

[Zasada]

I see the 2024 Boston qualifying times have been posted. Same as 2023.

Thinking I should probably book a hotel. I have read that the Hyatt near the finish line is a good choice. Plus I have status with them. Do the Boston pros here agree, and any other tips they can share?

 

[gruecd]

I see the 2024 Boston qualifying times have been posted. Same as 2023.

Thinking I should probably book a hotel. I have read that the Hyatt near the finish line is a good choice. Plus I have status with them. Do the Boston pros here agree, and any other tips they can share?

Hyatt should be fine. Bottom line is that you want to stay somewhere near the finish line, right in the heart of the action, so it seems like your head is in the right place. One's first Boston Marathon isn't the time or place to think about saving money (IMHO).

 

[ChiefD]

So, I guess an update is in order. As you all have probably noticed, I've been trying to get out and run at least every Saturday if I can. I have the intention of going out during the week at least another day or two but lately I've come home from work completely drained.

Like, two or three days a week I come home and just want to lay in bed and go to sleep. So on those days that's pretty much what I try to do. The other days I have to mow, water plants.....just normal keep the house presentable type of stuff. Always in bed by 8:30 or 9:00 - even on weekends at this point. It seems like I pretty much have a set number of hours where I have energy every day and need to maximize those hours before I'm just sore and ready to conk out.

Next week we are thankfully on vacation for our annual Minnesota trip, so that has helped the mood this week..

MRI's are scheduled for the week after next. I'm getting an MRI and Xray on the neck area on the 22nd, and they are also doing an MRI and MRA on the head and brain on the 21st. I asked for that one specifically since my dad died of a brain aneurism when I was 17. Just want to cover all my bases since the pain has radiated into my head, and specifically on my right side. My doc thought it was a result of the neck stuff, but I wanted to make sure and she agreed.

Basically my daily routine has sucked lately. Pain from the moment I wake up til the moment I go to bed. Some days are better than others. I have just been having these thoughts that something else is going on, and that it is not good. I have not been in a very good place mentally because of that. This vacation is coming at a good time - need a mental pick me up for sure. 10 days of seeing my brothers and doing some fishing will be awesome.

So hopefully there will be some answers here in a couple weeks - good or bad.

You guys are doing awesome grinding it out so far this summer. Hope the one-legged guys feel better soon. Onward and upward, gents.

 

[Zasada]

I see the 2024 Boston qualifying times have been posted. Same as 2023.

Thinking I should probably book a hotel. I have read that the Hyatt near the finish line is a good choice. Plus I have status with them. Do the Boston pros here agree, and any other tips they can share?

Hyatt should be fine. Bottom line is that you want to stay somewhere near the finish line, right in the heart of the action, so it seems like your head is in the right place. One's first Boston Marathon isn't the time or place to think about saving money (IMHO).

Agreed, willing to spend to have the right experience.

That said, by some fluke, the Doubletree on the west side of Tufts had rooms available on points (70K/night), vs the Hyatt at $700+/night. And the former is cancelable up to 24 hours before arrival (Hyatt 30 days). So went with the Doubletree for now. Nothing I should be aware of with that location (looks about the same distance from the action as the Hyatt)?

 

[gruecd]

I see the 2024 Boston qualifying times have been posted. Same as 2023.

Thinking I should probably book a hotel. I have read that the Hyatt near the finish line is a good choice. Plus I have status with them. Do the Boston pros here agree, and any other tips they can share?

Hyatt should be fine. Bottom line is that you want to stay somewhere near the finish line, right in the heart of the action, so it seems like your head is in the right place. One's first Boston Marathon isn't the time or place to think about saving money (IMHO).

Agreed, willing to spend to have the right experience.

That said, by some fluke, the Doubletree on the west side of Tufts had rooms available on points (70K/night), vs the Hyatt at $700+/night. And the former is cancelable up to 24 hours before arrival (Hyatt 30 days). So went with the Doubletree for now. Nothing I should be aware of with that location (looks about the same distance from the action as the Hyatt)?

I mean, it's roughly one mile away from the finish line, so that would be my only concern. Is the Hyatt really that far away, too? I usually pay through the nose to stay at Loews on the corner of Berkeley and Stuart. Last time got a super sweet deal through work at the Mandarin Oriental.

 

[gruecd]

So, I guess an update is in order. As you all have probably noticed, I've been trying to get out and run at least every Saturday if I can. I have the intention of going out during the week at least another day or two but lately I've come home from work completely drained.

Like, two or three days a week I come home and just want to lay in bed and go to sleep. So on those days that's pretty much what I try to do. The other days I have to mow, water plants.....just normal keep the house presentable type of stuff. Always in bed by 8:30 or 9:00 - even on weekends at this point. It seems like I pretty much have a set number of hours where I have energy every day and need to maximize those hours before I'm just sore and ready to conk out.

How about you get your ***** *** up in the morning and run BEFORE work?

 

[ChiefD]

So, I guess an update is in order. As you all have probably noticed, I've been trying to get out and run at least every Saturday if I can. I have the intention of going out during the week at least another day or two but lately I've come home from work completely drained.

Like, two or three days a week I come home and just want to lay in bed and go to sleep. So on those days that's pretty much what I try to do. The other days I have to mow, water plants.....just normal keep the house presentable type of stuff. Always in bed by 8:30 or 9:00 - even on weekends at this point. It seems like I pretty much have a set number of hours where I have energy every day and need to maximize those hours before I'm just sore and ready to conk out.

How about you get your ***** *** up in the morning and run BEFORE work?

 

[ChiefD]

That is a good point, and something I have thought about. My Saturday runs are awesome because I get up early and get them done by 7:15. You may have something there.

(and a pointed kick in the pants to get it done. thank you)

 

[Zasada]

I see the 2024 Boston qualifying times have been posted. Same as 2023.

Thinking I should probably book a hotel. I have read that the Hyatt near the finish line is a good choice. Plus I have status with them. Do the Boston pros here agree, and any other tips they can share?

Hyatt should be fine. Bottom line is that you want to stay somewhere near the finish line, right in the heart of the action, so it seems like your head is in the right place. One's first Boston Marathon isn't the time or place to think about saving money (IMHO).

Agreed, willing to spend to have the right experience.

That said, by some fluke, the Doubletree on the west side of Tufts had rooms available on points (70K/night), vs the Hyatt at $700+/night. And the former is cancelable up to 24 hours before arrival (Hyatt 30 days). So went with the Doubletree for now. Nothing I should be aware of with that location (looks about the same distance from the action as the Hyatt)?

I mean, it's roughly one mile away from the finish line, so that would be my only concern. Is the Hyatt really that far away, too? I usually pay through the nose to stay at Loews on the corner of Berkeley and Stuart. Last time got a super sweet deal through work at the Mandarin Oriental.

Yup, 0.9mi for them both. I'll keep sniffing around since the DoubleTree is refundable.

 

[Juxtatarot]

That is a good point, and something I have thought about. My Saturday runs are awesome because I get up early and get them done by 7:15. You may have something there.

(and a pointed kick in the pants to get it done. thank you)

What time do you leave for work? If you are in bed by 9:00 I assume you get up bright and early.

 

[SteelCurtain]

Reading up on nutrition and I have a couple questions:

Google produces some wildly different recommendations as to when you should bring water/gel on a run, and how often you should take a gel. What methods do you all follow? So far I haven't used either during a workout, but with my runs getting longer and the weather getting warmer, it may be time soon.

I see that pre-workout coffee/caffeine is popular, and there are supposedly quite a few benefits. Lots of gels have low doses of caffeine as well. This seems counterproductive for aerobic training though, no? When I tried drinking coffee before one of my runs, I had to go significantly slower to stay in the proper HR zone. Maybe my morning coffee is just too big.

Warning - word vomit wall of text ahead.

Less is more and practice what you'll do race day - I want to carry as little as possible at all times. When I marathon train during the summer I set up a mini aid station in my garage. 32 oz hydroflask filled with ice and water, wet cloth in the beer fridge, two small bags of pretzels, two small bags of fruit snacks, and a couple honey jam sammys. I never eat all of it, but better to have it ready and not need it than the opposite. First lap I remove my hand held from the freezer (frozen solid) and am off on my way - it begins to melt after about 20-25 mins and on those especially hot days it's polished at about 50 as I finish lap one. I grab the wet cloth as I re-fill and just let it soak on my neck as I work through the transition. I empty all of the water from my hydroflask (not the ice) into the handheld and grab whichever of the foods I may need then put the cloth back in the fridge and head back out. This is the most difficult lap as I want to start drinking water quickly, but I also don't want to run out too soon and the trade off to that is luke warm water when I start drinking (blegh). My goal is to go as far beyond 40 mins as possible before re-filling in front of lap 3. At this re-fill I unload the (mostly still) ice from the hydroflask then bang on the door to get a wife or kid to re-fill it for post run grab whatever food I need then head back out. Since I'm starting with ice this time I can usually make it further before the water becomes luke warm, but it also helps that I know I don't need to go as far as lap 2. After all, anything near 2 hours in these conditions is a win.

All that said, while I am a data nerd I am much more run by feel than most of my contemporaries. I'll review effort after, but generally the only time I monitor during is if I am doing an extended high effort workout like a tempo. Otherwise I try to defer all of my over-thinking to when I am also not running.

My lord. And I think it's complicated when I occasionally take water and a shotblok with me on my run.

 

[MAC_32]

Had a virtual appointment with my PT yesterday and refreshed a plan to get back to things. Going to try some short runs starting later this week, and nothing more than one every three days to start. I have a few weekends up north soon, and trails are always easier on my calf than streets. So will try to keep things very light until then.

This sounds like what was recommended to me when calf problems bubbled up 2 weeks before my last marathon. I didn't listen because it was BQ or bust, but if I were in a different place I would have heeded that advice instead of inevitably making things worse trying to race 26.2 miles. This current issue doesn't feel as bad as that one, but I am prepared to do that if things don't get better between now and vacation. Gonna be real bummed if I need to spend a 4th consecutive summer rehabbing though...

 

[SteelCurtain]

I see the 2024 Boston qualifying times have been posted. Same as 2023.

Thinking I should probably book a hotel. I have read that the Hyatt near the finish line is a good choice. Plus I have status with them. Do the Boston pros here agree, and any other tips they can share?

Hyatt should be fine. Bottom line is that you want to stay somewhere near the finish line, right in the heart of the action, so it seems like your head is in the right place. One's first Boston Marathon isn't the time or place to think about saving money (IMHO).

Agreed, willing to spend to have the right experience.

That said, by some fluke, the Doubletree on the west side of Tufts had rooms available on points (70K/night), vs the Hyatt at $700+/night. And the former is cancelable up to 24 hours before arrival (Hyatt 30 days). So went with the Doubletree for now. Nothing I should be aware of with that location (looks about the same distance from the action as the Hyatt)?

I mean, it's roughly one mile away from the finish line, so that would be my only concern. Is the Hyatt really that far away, too? I usually pay through the nose to stay at Loews on the corner of Berkeley and Stuart. Last time got a super sweet deal through work at the Mandarin Oriental.

Yup, 0.9mi for them both. I'll keep sniffing around since the DoubleTree is refundable.

I somehow missed this conversation. Check out marathon tours as they sometimes have deals on hotels as well. Cancel policies are pretty liberal (I think its like $25 as long as you cancel in 2023).

And agree 1000% with @gruecd, this is not the time to save money. Your first (and possibly only) Boston deserves an experience. Try to do Friday through Tuesday. Saturday is pretty awesome day around the finish line.

 

[MAC_32]

Reading up on nutrition and I have a couple questions:

Google produces some wildly different recommendations as to when you should bring water/gel on a run, and how often you should take a gel. What methods do you all follow? So far I haven't used either during a workout, but with my runs getting longer and the weather getting warmer, it may be time soon.

I see that pre-workout coffee/caffeine is popular, and there are supposedly quite a few benefits. Lots of gels have low doses of caffeine as well. This seems counterproductive for aerobic training though, no? When I tried drinking coffee before one of my runs, I had to go significantly slower to stay in the proper HR zone. Maybe my morning coffee is just too big.

Warning - word vomit wall of text ahead.

Less is more and practice what you'll do race day - I want to carry as little as possible at all times. When I marathon train during the summer I set up a mini aid station in my garage. 32 oz hydroflask filled with ice and water, wet cloth in the beer fridge, two small bags of pretzels, two small bags of fruit snacks, and a couple honey jam sammys. I never eat all of it, but better to have it ready and not need it than the opposite. First lap I remove my hand held from the freezer (frozen solid) and am off on my way - it begins to melt after about 20-25 mins and on those especially hot days it's polished at about 50 as I finish lap one. I grab the wet cloth as I re-fill and just let it soak on my neck as I work through the transition. I empty all of the water from my hydroflask (not the ice) into the handheld and grab whichever of the foods I may need then put the cloth back in the fridge and head back out. This is the most difficult lap as I want to start drinking water quickly, but I also don't want to run out too soon and the trade off to that is luke warm water when I start drinking (blegh). My goal is to go as far beyond 40 mins as possible before re-filling in front of lap 3. At this re-fill I unload the (mostly still) ice from the hydroflask then bang on the door to get a wife or kid to re-fill it for post run grab whatever food I need then head back out. Since I'm starting with ice this time I can usually make it further before the water becomes luke warm, but it also helps that I know I don't need to go as far as lap 2. After all, anything near 2 hours in these conditions is a win.

All that said, while I am a data nerd I am much more run by feel than most of my contemporaries. I'll review effort after, but generally the only time I monitor during is if I am doing an extended high effort workout like a tempo. Otherwise I try to defer all of my over-thinking to when I am also not running.

My lord. And I think it's complicated when I occasionally take water and a shotblok with me on my run.

FWIW, I didn't regress to such an overly complicated approach until I had a few years of trial & error first. Those errors led me to the conclusion that I'm better equipped to execute something like this on 8-9 hours of sleep rather than 6-7 and get it over with first thing in the morning.

 

[SteelCurtain]

Man, what is it ...four of us with calf issues in various stages? @Zasada , @Juxtatarot , @MAC_32 , and me? Weird.

I can't say my calves are hurt but they are tight all the time. I'm guessing its the constant elevation I'm running, but my calves are feeling it big time. Particularly in the AM when I get up. I can't walk normally for a few minutes until they wake up a bit.

 

[SteelCurtain]

Ran a 6.5 mile trail "race" which had 3,500 feet of elevation. The first 3 miles had 2,500 feet. It was essentially up and down a ski mountain. It had four major hills. One stretch of 0.3 miles had a 40% grade and was about 800 feet of elevation.

This is all about prepping for the R2R2R I'll be doing with @gruecd and @Zasada in October.

My goal in 2023 is to do 15,000 feet of elevation a month. (For comparison, I did 10,000 feet a month last year.) I'm pleased I'm at 86,000 feet thus far in 2023 which puts me ahead of plan. I will also do several longer hillier hikes this summer as I try to make it so I don't embarass myself in the Grand Canyon.

For R2R2R, make sure you bomb some downhills. Long and hard. Blow up your quads. That will be the key for R2R2R. Everyone thinks it's the uphills that are key. And while they are long and draining, it's nothing that can't be solved with a slower pace. But if you blow up your quads on the first (5,000ft) descent into the canyon, you'll be hurting the rest of the day.

I've known some runners who had to resort to hiking backwards on the downhills during races because of early quad issues.

The good news is that usually four consecutive weeks of quad abuse (for me) gets them into prime shape.

This good info but I was on a ski hill with rocks and some insane grade. I didn't want to end up injured. I'll definitely get after it on some of my downhills.

I assume quad specific lifting would be super helpful too.

 

[SteelCurtain]

I see the 2024 Boston qualifying times have been posted. Same as 2023.

Thinking I should probably book a hotel. I have read that the Hyatt near the finish line is a good choice. Plus I have status with them. Do the Boston pros here agree, and any other tips they can share?

Hyatt should be fine. Bottom line is that you want to stay somewhere near the finish line, right in the heart of the action, so it seems like your head is in the right place. One's first Boston Marathon isn't the time or place to think about saving money (IMHO).

Agreed, willing to spend to have the right experience.

That said, by some fluke, the Doubletree on the west side of Tufts had rooms available on points (70K/night), vs the Hyatt at $700+/night. And the former is cancelable up to 24 hours before arrival (Hyatt 30 days). So went with the Doubletree for now. Nothing I should be aware of with that location (looks about the same distance from the action as the Hyatt)?

I mean, it's roughly one mile away from the finish line, so that would be my only concern. Is the Hyatt really that far away, too? I usually pay through the nose to stay at Loews on the corner of Berkeley and Stuart. Last time got a super sweet deal through work at the Mandarin Oriental.

Yup, 0.9mi for them both. I'll keep sniffing around since the DoubleTree is refundable.

I somehow missed this conversation. Check out marathon tours as they sometimes have deals on hotels as well. Cancel policies are pretty liberal (I think its like $25 as long as you cancel in 2023).

And agree 1000% with @gruecd, this is not the time to save money. Your first (and possibly only) Boston deserves an experience. Try to do Friday through Tuesday. Saturday is pretty awesome day around the finish line.

Marathon Tours has nothing right now, but things may open up as people cancel. I just looked at the Marriott site for you. The Sheraton on Dalton Street is $585 a night and in a much better location than the Hyatt. (I get the pull of having status. If you want me to book it (as I have titanium status with Marriott), it's an option which will get your free breakfast and possible upgrade (although that weekend is tough.)

 

[MAC_32]

Ran a 6.5 mile trail "race" which had 3,500 feet of elevation. The first 3 miles had 2,500 feet. It was essentially up and down a ski mountain. It had four major hills. One stretch of 0.3 miles had a 40% grade and was about 800 feet of elevation.

This is all about prepping for the R2R2R I'll be doing with @gruecd and @Zasada in October.

My goal in 2023 is to do 15,000 feet of elevation a month. (For comparison, I did 10,000 feet a month last year.) I'm pleased I'm at 86,000 feet thus far in 2023 which puts me ahead of plan. I will also do several longer hillier hikes this summer as I try to make it so I don't embarass myself in the Grand Canyon.

For R2R2R, make sure you bomb some downhills. Long and hard. Blow up your quads. That will be the key for R2R2R. Everyone thinks it's the uphills that are key. And while they are long and draining, it's nothing that can't be solved with a slower pace. But if you blow up your quads on the first (5,000ft) descent into the canyon, you'll be hurting the rest of the day.

I've known some runners who had to resort to hiking backwards on the downhills during races because of early quad issues.

The good news is that usually four consecutive weeks of quad abuse (for me) gets them into prime shape.

This good info but I was on a ski hill with rocks and some insane grade. I didn't want to end up injured. I'll definitely get after it on some of my downhills.

I assume quad specific lifting would be super helpful too.

Yes, and unsolicited advice - make russian speed lunges one of those exercises. I feel the benefit of those when I attack down hills on our higher graded trails.

 

[SteelCurtain]

Ran a 6.5 mile trail "race" which had 3,500 feet of elevation. The first 3 miles had 2,500 feet. It was essentially up and down a ski mountain. It had four major hills. One stretch of 0.3 miles had a 40% grade and was about 800 feet of elevation.

This is all about prepping for the R2R2R I'll be doing with @gruecd and @Zasada in October.

My goal in 2023 is to do 15,000 feet of elevation a month. (For comparison, I did 10,000 feet a month last year.) I'm pleased I'm at 86,000 feet thus far in 2023 which puts me ahead of plan. I will also do several longer hillier hikes this summer as I try to make it so I don't embarass myself in the Grand Canyon.

For R2R2R, make sure you bomb some downhills. Long and hard. Blow up your quads. That will be the key for R2R2R. Everyone thinks it's the uphills that are key. And while they are long and draining, it's nothing that can't be solved with a slower pace. But if you blow up your quads on the first (5,000ft) descent into the canyon, you'll be hurting the rest of the day.

I've known some runners who had to resort to hiking backwards on the downhills during races because of early quad issues.

The good news is that usually four consecutive weeks of quad abuse (for me) gets them into prime shape.

This good info but I was on a ski hill with rocks and some insane grade. I didn't want to end up injured. I'll definitely get after it on some of my downhills.

I assume quad specific lifting would be super helpful too.

Yes, and unsolicited advice - make russian speed lunges one of those exercises. I feel the benefit of those when I attack down hills on our higher graded trails.

Thank you! I don't think I have the step that he uses. Do you think a stair would work ok? Other ideas I might have around the house that could be usable? (I'm guessing a large book would get destroyed).

Or I could shoot the lock off the wallet and just buy one of those steps.

 

[ChiefD]

That is a good point, and something I have thought about. My Saturday runs are awesome because I get up early and get them done by 7:15. You may have something there.

(and a pointed kick in the pants to get it done. thank you)

What time do you leave for work? If you are in bed by 9:00 I assume you get up bright and early.

If I sleep all night I usually wake up at 6:00 and leave the house around 7:05. I could certainly make it happen: I could get up at 5:00 and be out the door by 5:45. Run til 6:30 and still have time to shower and head to work at my normal time.

It's doable. I'm just a vag.

 

[gianmarco]

Man, what is it ...four of us with calf issues in various stages? @Zasada , @Juxtatarot , @MAC_32 , and me? Weird.

I can't say my calves are hurt but they are tight all the time. I'm guessing its the constant elevation I'm running, but my calves are feeling it big time. Particularly in the AM when I get up. I can't walk normally for a few minutes until they wake up a bit.

Oofos

 

[JShare87]

Man, what is it ...four of us with calf issues in various stages? @Zasada , @Juxtatarot , @MAC_32 , and me? Weird.

I can't say my calves are hurt but they are tight all the time. I'm guessing its the constant elevation I'm running, but my calves are feeling it big time. Particularly in the AM when I get up. I can't walk normally for a few minutes until they wake up a bit.

Oofos

This. I can’t walk around my house barefoot. Have Oofos all over my house

 

[tri-man 47]

I see the 2024 Boston qualifying times have been posted. Same as 2023.

Thinking I should probably book a hotel. I have read that the Hyatt near the finish line is a good choice. Plus I have status with them. Do the Boston pros here agree, and any other tips they can share?

Hyatt should be fine. Bottom line is that you want to stay somewhere near the finish line, right in the heart of the action, so it seems like your head is in the right place. One's first Boston Marathon isn't the time or place to think about saving money (IMHO).

Agreed, willing to spend to have the right experience.

That said, by some fluke, the Doubletree on the west side of Tufts had rooms available on points (70K/night), vs the Hyatt at $700+/night. And the former is cancelable up to 24 hours before arrival (Hyatt 30 days). So went with the Doubletree for now. Nothing I should be aware of with that location (looks about the same distance from the action as the Hyatt)?

I mean, it's roughly one mile away from the finish line, so that would be my only concern. Is the Hyatt really that far away, too? I usually pay through the nose to stay at Loews on the corner of Berkeley and Stuart. Last time got a super sweet deal through work at the Mandarin Oriental.

Yup, 0.9mi for them both. I'll keep sniffing around since the DoubleTree is refundable.

Don't overthink it? Before the race, the DT seems very convenient to Boston Commons for the buses out to Hopkinton (I think that's where they're staged, since I stay near Hopkinton). After the race, you're in a shoot walking east on Boylston for a few blocks, which gets you quite close to the DT. My post-race walk is over the the Back Bay transit stop to catch a train, and that's about the same distance as the DT. You'll want to walk off the race a little anyway. If you've got points for DT, I'd say use 'em.

And I strongly agree about being there on Saturday, at a minimum, for race check-in and to wander on Boylston. It's a great atmosphere, but you rack up some sneaky mileage walking around, so better to get that done on Saturday.

 

[gruecd]

One other piece of unsolicited Boston advice - don't have a time goal for your first time running it. Between the logistics and the course itself, it's an extremely difficult race to do well your first time. Just chill and enjoy the experience. If you end up going back someday, then you can race it.

 

[bushdocda]

Wait I should book a hotel even though I haven’t qualified yet ?! Yes I should. Searching refundable options later.

 

[BassNBrew]

Ran a 6.5 mile trail "race" which had 3,500 feet of elevation. The first 3 miles had 2,500 feet. It was essentially up and down a ski mountain. It had four major hills. One stretch of 0.3 miles had a 40% grade and was about 800 feet of elevation.

This is all about prepping for the R2R2R I'll be doing with @gruecd and @Zasada in October.

My goal in 2023 is to do 15,000 feet of elevation a month. (For comparison, I did 10,000 feet a month last year.) I'm pleased I'm at 86,000 feet thus far in 2023 which puts me ahead of plan. I will also do several longer hillier hikes this summer as I try to make it so I don't embarass myself in the Grand Canyon.

For R2R2R, make sure you bomb some downhills. Long and hard. Blow up your quads. That will be the key for R2R2R. Everyone thinks it's the uphills that are key. And while they are long and draining, it's nothing that can't be solved with a slower pace. But if you blow up your quads on the first (5,000ft) descent into the canyon, you'll be hurting the rest of the day.

I've known some runners who had to resort to hiking backwards on the downhills during races because of early quad issues.

The good news is that usually four consecutive weeks of quad abuse (for me) gets them into prime shape.

This good info but I was on a ski hill with rocks and some insane grade. I didn't want to end up injured. I'll definitely get after it on some of my downhills.

I assume quad specific lifting would be super helpful too.

Jason Koop (CTS Ultra Running coach stated that only two downhill sessions are needed for downhill adaption and weight training isn't beneficial.

I theoretically could see the utility for hard downhill runs if terrain is limited. However, even in those cases, it’s a tough risk-reward to balance. On the plus side though, all an ultrarunner should need is 1-2 sessions to create an adaptation (inoculation effect in force here again).

In a previous article, I reviewed the need (or lack thereof) for strength training. So I am not going to rehash those arguments here. If you choose to strength train, I’m not convinced being better prepared for downhills will be an outcome. So, you better do it for other reasons.

As I recall from his podcasts, adaption will last at least 4 weeks.

Here's the link to the full article. He's a science guy so I put a lot of faith in what he has to say.

Downhill Running: How to go faster and hurt less

Downhill running is tough on legs, but it doesn't take much training to improve your downhill running, according to Coach Jason Koop

trainright.com

 

[MAC_32]

Ran a 6.5 mile trail "race" which had 3,500 feet of elevation. The first 3 miles had 2,500 feet. It was essentially up and down a ski mountain. It had four major hills. One stretch of 0.3 miles had a 40% grade and was about 800 feet of elevation.

This is all about prepping for the R2R2R I'll be doing with @gruecd and @Zasada in October.

My goal in 2023 is to do 15,000 feet of elevation a month. (For comparison, I did 10,000 feet a month last year.) I'm pleased I'm at 86,000 feet thus far in 2023 which puts me ahead of plan. I will also do several longer hillier hikes this summer as I try to make it so I don't embarass myself in the Grand Canyon.

For R2R2R, make sure you bomb some downhills. Long and hard. Blow up your quads. That will be the key for R2R2R. Everyone thinks it's the uphills that are key. And while they are long and draining, it's nothing that can't be solved with a slower pace. But if you blow up your quads on the first (5,000ft) descent into the canyon, you'll be hurting the rest of the day.

I've known some runners who had to resort to hiking backwards on the downhills during races because of early quad issues.

The good news is that usually four consecutive weeks of quad abuse (for me) gets them into prime shape.

This good info but I was on a ski hill with rocks and some insane grade. I didn't want to end up injured. I'll definitely get after it on some of my downhills.

I assume quad specific lifting would be super helpful too.

Yes, and unsolicited advice - make russian speed lunges one of those exercises. I feel the benefit of those when I attack down hills on our higher graded trails.

Thank you! I don't think I have the step that he uses. Do you think a stair would work ok? Other ideas I might have around the house that could be usable? (I'm guessing a large book would get destroyed).

Or I could shoot the lock off the wallet and just buy one of those steps.

Of course! I intentionally use multiple different stair heights and vary the reps. The one at the gym is lower, so I speed up the reps and increase the quantity. At the park and especially our back deck the height increases, so I have to slow them down and reduce the number. Different sorta fatigue and stress with each one just like the varying types of downhills. Can feel similar sorts of engagement in the quad as I careen down hills.

 

[Zasada]

One other piece of unsolicited Boston advice - don't have a time goal for your first time running it. Between the logistics and the course itself, it's an extremely difficult race to do well your first time. Just chill and enjoy the experience. If you end up going back someday, then you can race it.

Yup, definitely going to enjoy it. No plans to race it. In fact, I might be done racing street marathons. Mostly for reasons I knew before yesterday, but yesterday my PT thought the reason my calf issue is back is because I screwed up my adductors on my Houston marathon, and then tried to run before they were healed, shifting my stride enough to make my calf injury reappear, despite having been healed for 4,000 miles.

The simplest answer is "recover more after racing a marathon", but like I said, there are other reasons I'm sticking to racing trails henceforth.

That's the long way of saying, yes, I agree with you, and plan to do exactly that.

 

[Zasada]

I see the 2024 Boston qualifying times have been posted. Same as 2023.

Thinking I should probably book a hotel. I have read that the Hyatt near the finish line is a good choice. Plus I have status with them. Do the Boston pros here agree, and any other tips they can share?

Hyatt should be fine. Bottom line is that you want to stay somewhere near the finish line, right in the heart of the action, so it seems like your head is in the right place. One's first Boston Marathon isn't the time or place to think about saving money (IMHO).

Agreed, willing to spend to have the right experience.

That said, by some fluke, the Doubletree on the west side of Tufts had rooms available on points (70K/night), vs the Hyatt at $700+/night. And the former is cancelable up to 24 hours before arrival (Hyatt 30 days). So went with the Doubletree for now. Nothing I should be aware of with that location (looks about the same distance from the action as the Hyatt)?

I mean, it's roughly one mile away from the finish line, so that would be my only concern. Is the Hyatt really that far away, too? I usually pay through the nose to stay at Loews on the corner of Berkeley and Stuart. Last time got a super sweet deal through work at the Mandarin Oriental.

Yup, 0.9mi for them both. I'll keep sniffing around since the DoubleTree is refundable.

Don't overthink it? Before the race, the DT seems very convenient to Boston Commons for the buses out to Hopkinton (I think that's where they're staged, since I stay near Hopkinton). After the race, you're in a shoot walking east on Boylston for a few blocks, which gets you quite close to the DT. My post-race walk is over the the Back Bay transit stop to catch a train, and that's about the same distance as the DT. You'll want to walk off the race a little anyway. If you've got points for DT, I'd say use 'em.

And I strongly agree about being there on Saturday, at a minimum, for race check-in and to wander on Boylston. It's a great atmosphere, but you rack up some sneaky mileage walking around, so better to get that done on Saturday.

Yup, the post-race walk is definitely beneficial to me as well. For this event, I'm largely inelastic when it comes to prices, but the difference between 70K points/night (of which I have more than I know what to do with) vs $500-$700/night, is enough to walk a little further.

And regarding the "Saturday" comments, I plan to be there mid-Sat through early Tue. Will definitely check out activities on Sat/Sun.

 

[BassNBrew]

Apologies to those who teach but I'm sure you've heard the saying, "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach"

Just a heads up but I'm professor status on trail running and health&fitness topics.

 

[Sand]

Man, what is it ...four of us with calf issues in various stages? @Zasada , @Juxtatarot , @MAC_32 , and me? Weird.

Don't be spreading this kind of stuff around!

 

[tri-man 47]

Apologies to those who teach but I'm sure you've heard the saying, "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach"

Just a heads up but I'm professor status on trail running and health&fitness topics.

"...and those who can't teach, teach gym."

 

[tri-man 47]

In other running news, a fellow AGer that I follow on Strava just did a track work with 2 x 800m, 600m, 400m, 200m. His pacing on all of those was sub-5:00/mile.

 

[-OZ-]

It looks like the time has probably come to buy a new fitness watch. Without breaking the bank (under $500) what are the recommendations for tri tracking?

One I’m looking at now and seems to be everything I’m looking for: Polar vantage M2. I’m not anti Garmin but they seem to be a higher price for comparable quality. I’m currently using a Suunto Spartan, which just logged my 1,500th event with it.

 

[gruecd]

FYI, Saucony Endorphin Speed 2 (certain colorways, at least) are now marked down to $64-65 on Amazon*

*for certain sizes (my size 13 are $75-80)

 

[BassNBrew]

It looks like the time has probably come to buy a new fitness watch. Without breaking the bank (under $500) what are the recommendations for tri tracking?

One I’m looking at now and seems to be everything I’m looking for: Polar vantage M2. I’m not anti Garmin but they seem to be a higher price for comparable quality. I’m currently using a Suunto Spartan, which just logged my 1,500th event with it.

Sit tight for Amazon Prime Day. If you want to PM me you address I have a Spartan you can borrow for as long as you want. I got the best Garmin Fenix last Black Friday for basically $550. That watch tells you everything health wise and gives training suggestions. HR seems to work great and GPS and elevation smokes the Spartan. For a data geek it's worth it. I charged it Friday. A 10 hour event later and it was at 82%. I have 7 x 45 additional workouts with 5 on gps and am at 51% battery right now. I do have the solar charging on this model which helps a bit.

 

[-OZ-]

It looks like the time has probably come to buy a new fitness watch. Without breaking the bank (under $500) what are the recommendations for tri tracking?

One I’m looking at now and seems to be everything I’m looking for: Polar vantage M2. I’m not anti Garmin but they seem to be a higher price for comparable quality. I’m currently using a Suunto Spartan, which just logged my 1,500th event with it.

Sit tight for Amazon Prime Day. If you want to PM me you address I have a Spartan you can borrow for as long as you want. I got the best Garmin Fenix last Black Friday for basically $550. That watch tells you everything health wise and gives training suggestions. HR seems to work great and GPS and elevation smokes the Spartan. For a data geek it's worth it. I charged it Friday. A 10 hour event later and it was at 82%. I have 7 x 45 additional workouts with 5 on gps and am at 51% battery right now. I do have the solar charging on this model which helps a bit.

thanks. I’ll probably manage with this one for a bit. The biggest issue right now is the battery constantly says 10% even though it clearly has more left.

 

[Zasada]

It looks like the time has probably come to buy a new fitness watch. Without breaking the bank (under $500) what are the recommendations for tri tracking?

One I’m looking at now and seems to be everything I’m looking for: Polar vantage M2. I’m not anti Garmin but they seem to be a higher price for comparable quality. I’m currently using a Suunto Spartan, which just logged my 1,500th event with it.

I'm pretty pro-Garmin, given their reputation for being more accurate on GPS/HR than competitors. And as BnB said, the battery life is crazy good.

The new Fenix 7 Pro and Epix Pro just released, so that means you should see some deals on the prior models soon. I would hold off to see what pops there.

If you're really itching for something "now", here's the Fenix 6 Pro Solar for $400 or the Fenix 7 (non-solar) for $500.

 

[-OZ-]

It looks like the time has probably come to buy a new fitness watch. Without breaking the bank (under $500) what are the recommendations for tri tracking?

One I’m looking at now and seems to be everything I’m looking for: Polar vantage M2. I’m not anti Garmin but they seem to be a higher price for comparable quality. I’m currently using a Suunto Spartan, which just logged my 1,500th event with it.

I'm pretty pro-Garmin, given their reputation for being more accurate on GPS/HR than competitors. And as BnB said, the battery life is crazy good.

The new Fenix 7 Pro and Epix Pro just released, so that means you should see some deals on the prior models soon. I would hold off to see what pops there.

If you're really itching for something "now", here's the Fenix 6 Pro Solar for $400 or the Fenix 7 (non-solar) for $500.

Is the solar actually worth having?

 

[Zasada]

It looks like the time has probably come to buy a new fitness watch. Without breaking the bank (under $500) what are the recommendations for tri tracking?

One I’m looking at now and seems to be everything I’m looking for: Polar vantage M2. I’m not anti Garmin but they seem to be a higher price for comparable quality. I’m currently using a Suunto Spartan, which just logged my 1,500th event with it.

I'm pretty pro-Garmin, given their reputation for being more accurate on GPS/HR than competitors. And as BnB said, the battery life is crazy good.

The new Fenix 7 Pro and Epix Pro just released, so that means you should see some deals on the prior models soon. I would hold off to see what pops there.

If you're really itching for something "now", here's the Fenix 6 Pro Solar for $400 or the Fenix 7 (non-solar) for $500.

Is the solar actually worth having?

I don't think so. If you're running multi-day ultras, or really hate charging your watch once or twice a week, then maybe it has value.

But with my Epix (not solar), I ran two 14-17 hour ultras recently and had more than half my battery left at the end.

 

[ChiefD]

It looks like the time has probably come to buy a new fitness watch. Without breaking the bank (under $500) what are the recommendations for tri tracking?

One I’m looking at now and seems to be everything I’m looking for: Polar vantage M2. I’m not anti Garmin but they seem to be a higher price for comparable quality. I’m currently using a Suunto Spartan, which just logged my 1,500th event with it.

Just got the Garmin Forerunner 245 music version recently and honestly not a fan. Not sure if would work for you anyway but I probably wouldn't buy another.

Damn near every time I put this thing on something needs to be updated. So of course I'm sitting there waiting to run while the Garmin software updates. Or the Spotify app needs to be updated. It's maddening.

Oh, and for whatever reason it won't transfer heart rate data to Strava anymore.

Other than that it's great!

 

[BassNBrew]

It looks like the time has probably come to buy a new fitness watch. Without breaking the bank (under $500) what are the recommendations for tri tracking?

One I’m looking at now and seems to be everything I’m looking for: Polar vantage M2. I’m not anti Garmin but they seem to be a higher price for comparable quality. I’m currently using a Suunto Spartan, which just logged my 1,500th event with it.

I'm pretty pro-Garmin, given their reputation for being more accurate on GPS/HR than competitors. And as BnB said, the battery life is crazy good.

The new Fenix 7 Pro and Epix Pro just released, so that means you should see some deals on the prior models soon. I would hold off to see what pops there.

If you're really itching for something "now", here's the Fenix 6 Pro Solar for $400 or the Fenix 7 (non-solar) for $500.

Is the solar actually worth having?

I don't think so. If you're running multi-day ultras, or really hate charging your watch once or twice a week, then maybe it has value.

But with my Epix (not solar), I ran two 14-17 hour ultras recently and had more than half my battery left at the end.

$500 gets you 37 hours, $600 almost doubles to 73 hours, $800 nets you 122 hours, sapphire lens, and flashlight.

Probably overkill, but you can literally train all week and not worry about the charge. It's nice to not have that oh crap moment when you walk out the door, my battery is low. The main difference from my Spartan is that when I went on endurance mode to get that type of battery life I would only get .9 to .98 miles for every mile travelled. I have 3 prior Suunto products and Garmin has blasted past them.

Garmin Fenix 7 and Fenix 7 Pro battery life

Watch	Max battery life (smartwatch)	Max battery life (GPS)
Garmin Fenix 7S	11 days	37 hours
Garmin Fenix 7	18 days	57 hours
Garmin Fenix 7S Solar / Sapphire Solar	14 days	46 hours
Garmin Fenix 7 Solar / Sapphire Solar	22 days	73 hours
Garmin Fenix 7X Solar / Sapphire Solar	37 days	122 hours
Garmin Fenix 7S Pro Solar / Sapphire Solar	14 days	46 hours
Garmin Fenix 7 Pro Solar / Sapphire Solar	22 days	73 hours
Garmin Fenix 7X Pro Solar / Sapphire Solar	37 days	122 hours

 

[bushdocda]

It looks like the time has probably come to buy a new fitness watch. Without breaking the bank (under $500) what are the recommendations for tri tracking?

One I’m looking at now and seems to be everything I’m looking for: Polar vantage M2. I’m not anti Garmin but they seem to be a higher price for comparable quality. I’m currently using a Suunto Spartan, which just logged my 1,500th event with it.

I would go Garmin 265 if I were buying. See dcrainmaker.com review of obsessive details on that one and others including the Polar you linked above.

 

[pbm107]

It looks like the time has probably come to buy a new fitness watch. Without breaking the bank (under $500) what are the recommendations for tri tracking?

One I’m looking at now and seems to be everything I’m looking for: Polar vantage M2. I’m not anti Garmin but they seem to be a higher price for comparable quality. I’m currently using a Suunto Spartan, which just logged my 1,500th event with it.

I would go Garmin 265 if I were buying. See dcrainmaker.com review of obsessive details on that one and others including the Polar you linked above.

If I was buying a watch I think this is what I'd purchase, for now I am still fine with using the 230 and an external HRM.

 

[bushdocda]

It looks like the time has probably come to buy a new fitness watch. Without breaking the bank (under $500) what are the recommendations for tri tracking?

One I’m looking at now and seems to be everything I’m looking for: Polar vantage M2. I’m not anti Garmin but they seem to be a higher price for comparable quality. I’m currently using a Suunto Spartan, which just logged my 1,500th event with it.

I would go Garmin 265 if I were buying. See dcrainmaker.com review of obsessive details on that one and others including the Polar you linked above.

If I was buying a watch I think this is what I'd purchase, for now I am still fine with using the 230 and an external HRM.

Yep I’m a 645 with external. I think my HR would rise 15 bpm just trying to trust a wrist reading so I’m not looking to get rid of that anytime soon.

 

[caustic]

Man, what is it ...four of us with calf issues in various stages? @Zasada , @Juxtatarot , @MAC_32 , and me? Weird.

I can't say my calves are hurt but they are tight all the time. I'm guessing its the constant elevation I'm running, but my calves are feeling it big time. Particularly in the AM when I get up. I can't walk normally for a few minutes until they wake up a bit.

Oofos

This. I can’t walk around my house barefoot. Have Oofos all over my house

Just ordered my first pair to see what all the fuss is about.

 

[gianmarco]

Man, what is it ...four of us with calf issues in various stages? @Zasada , @Juxtatarot , @MAC_32 , and me? Weird.

I can't say my calves are hurt but they are tight all the time. I'm guessing its the constant elevation I'm running, but my calves are feeling it big time. Particularly in the AM when I get up. I can't walk normally for a few minutes until they wake up a bit.

Oofos

This. I can’t walk around my house barefoot. Have Oofos all over my house

Just ordered my first pair to see what all the fuss is about.

Welcome to heaven.