Ran a 10k - Official Thread (7 Viewers)

[JAA]

Got weeks 1-4 from my coach on Saturday morning.  Nothing too crazy the first couple of weeks, and then I see this doozy for my "challenge day" in week 3:

4 x HILLS followed by 1-miler on the roads, then 3 x HILLS followed by 1-miler on the roads, then 2 x HILLS followed by 1-miler, then finally 1 x HILL then 1-miler on the roads.   

First mile at 6:30ish pace, each subsequent mile 8-10 secs faster.  Two minutes rest before starting each set of hills. That's it.

So whats the main set like?  I see you warm-up like this all day long ...

 

[JAA]

Just wanted to give props to all of you who run in the heat and humidity year-round.  This stuff is legit sucking the life out of me.  I'm staring at 15 weeks of serious marathon training, and I don't even want to leave my air-conditioned house or office...

I got 2 hours in 90-93f tomorrow.  It will be EZ to MI but the duration will be ... entertaining.

 

[SFBayDuck]

See, and I just wish they'd had Tinder when I was 16, 17, 18...

Right?  I mean I was an early adopter of technology for hooking up with Prodigy message boards and AOL instant messaging.  But it was a lot of work back then.  Now it's easier to hook up than a 45 minute MAF run on a 50 degree morning.  

 

[gruecd]

Right?  I mean I was an early adopter of technology for hooking up with Prodigy message boards and AOL instant messaging.  But it was a lot of work back then.  Now it's easier to hook up than a 45 minute MAF run on a 50 degree morning.  

I had about a 7-month window of Tindering between breaking up with a long-term girlfriend and meeting my now-wife.  It was GLORIOUS.

 

[Zasada]

Right?  I mean I was an early adopter of technology for hooking up with Prodigy message boards and AOL instant messaging.  But it was a lot of work back then.  Now it's easier to hook up than a 45 minute MAF run on a 50 degree morning.  

Yeah BBSes and ICQ were the domains of skinny nerds (like me!).  My forward-thinking when it came to technology hurt my chances of hooking-up (albeit quite low to begin with, anyway).

A newly-separated friend of mine is telling me that Bumble is now the go-to app for this kind of thing... I guess I'll live vicariously through him...

 

[JAA]

Yeah BBSes and ICQ were the domains of skinny nerds (like me!).  My forward-thinking when it came to technology hurt my chances of hooking-up (albeit quite low to begin with, anyway).

A newly-separated friend of mine is telling me that Bumble is now the go-to app for this kind of thing... I guess I'll live vicariously through him...

75316324 is (was?) my ICQ number

 

[gianmarco]

75316324 is (was?) my ICQ number

My link

 

[Zasada]

75316324 is (was?) my ICQ number

Can't remember mine, but I signed-up in ~1995.  Would be cool if I could retrieve it somehow.

 

[Sand]

See, and I just wish they'd had Tinder when I was 16, 17, 18...

I'd have settled for Lululemon.

 

[BassNBrew]

Just looked at BnB's race - sub 7 minute miles for 72? 

@OZ* where are you seeing these splits?  I’m only finding 5 mile increments. Tia

 

[-OZ-]

@OZ* where are you seeing these splits?  I’m only finding 5 mile increments. Tia

Wrong oz

Strava shows pace per mile. I assume it's you, 72.34 miles, 29,886' elevation gain, 8:22, 6:57 per mile, 119 bpm. 

Impressive

 

[-OZ-]

Right?  I mean I was an early adopter of technology for hooking up with Prodigy message boards and AOL instant messaging.  But it was a lot of work back then.  Now it's easier to hook up than a 45 minute MAF run on a 50 degree morning.  

Yep. It's kinda sad. I want my kids to only hookup with gals who only hookup with them.

My daughter will never date.

 

[BassNBrew]

Wrong oz

Strava shows pace per mile. I assume it's you, 72.34 miles, 29,886' elevation gain, 8:22, 6:57 per mile, 119 bpm. 

Impressive

Interesting. I’ll have to check that out. I had the watch on “fair” accuracy which was reading about 15-20% short to give me 30 hours of battery life. The whole technology thing was a cluster this event 

 

[gianmarco]

Well, some more data points:

3 1/2 weeks ago:  11:41 pace (SI 152) HR 139

1 week ago:  10:40 pace (SI 125) -- HR 139

Today:  10:39 pace (SI 136) HR 137

Today's run was so under control.  My HR alarm went off maybe 10-15 times total.  I've never been close to that.  Every mile was 139 or lower.  Easy consistent pacing and cadence.  Felt really good this morning.

I had another question for you guys that have done this ( @-OZ-, @bushdocda, @Ned and @SFBayDuck

I realized I've been treating almost every run like an MAF test.  Meaning, I read how the closer you are to your MAF threshold (HR of 140 for me), the faster you'll see gains.  So, every run I'm flirting with that number the entire time and constantly going over slightly and then backing it down or dropping below it and trying to get it back to it so that it stays at or as close to 140 as possible from beginning to end.

Today (and with a couple other runs recently), I've started keeping it lower (even beyond the warmup) and keeping the pacing more consistent and letting the HR build up to it toward the end of the run.  I get far less spikes but I'm also spending more time below that threshold.  For example, today my mile HR splits were 132, 135, 137, 138, 139, 139.  My previous runs would be like 138, 140, 140, 140, 140, 141.

I'm sure in the end it doesn't matter that much, but I'm curious if you've heard/read about that or any experience with which way is better to do on a regular basis. 

 

[JAA]

It’s getting serious. I just set feeding alarms for 930 and 1030. This is in prep of my 11:15/11:30 start run time. Half pb&j each alarm simulating my feeding schedule the last 2 hours of the bike before starting the run. 

 

[gianmarco]

Also, just a couple more quick thoughts:

--It's been 1 month since I started this.  Finally feel like I'm running out there.  It doesn't feel so painfully slow most of the time.  I walk very rarely and it's almost exclusively up steep hills.  My cadence is back up to ~170+ consistently which just feels better.

--Along the same lines, I'm so used to running slowly now that when I get any kind of "speed", it feels so fast.  I have a downhill almost a mile into my route that I'm usually doing and this morning it felt like I was FLYING down the downhill.  Checked Strava and.....9:20 pace.  So dumb.

--Weight down to 197.  Feel better than ever.  I'm aiming for below 190.  I was down to 192 after a run the other day which is just crazy.  Still no increase in appetite despite the increase in miles. 

--Speaking of increase in miles, I'm officially at my highest month total ever so far at 127 miles and 24 hours.  One day still to go.  Considering this has probably been the hottest month I can ever remember here since moving to STL in 2008, I'll take it.

 

[Ned]

Well, some more data points:

3 1/2 weeks ago:  11:41 pace (SI 152) HR 139

1 week ago:  10:40 pace (SI 125) -- HR 139

Today:  10:39 pace (SI 136) HR 137

Today's run was so under control.  My HR alarm went off maybe 10-15 times total.  I've never been close to that.  Every mile was 139 or lower.  Easy consistent pacing and cadence.  Felt really good this morning.

I had another question for you guys that have done this ( @-OZ-, @bushdocda, @Ned and @SFBayDuck

I realized I've been treating almost every run like an MAF test.  Meaning, I read how the closer you are to your MAF threshold (HR of 140 for me), the faster you'll see gains.  So, every run I'm flirting with that number the entire time and constantly going over slightly and then backing it down or dropping below it and trying to get it back to it so that it stays at or as close to 140 as possible from beginning to end.

Today (and with a couple other runs recently), I've started keeping it lower (even beyond the warmup) and keeping the pacing more consistent and letting the HR build up to it toward the end of the run.  I get far less spikes but I'm also spending more time below that threshold.  For example, today my mile HR splits were 132, 135, 137, 138, 139, 139.  My previous runs would be like 138, 140, 140, 140, 140, 141.

I'm sure in the end it doesn't matter that much, but I'm curious if you've heard/read about that or any experience with which way is better to do on a regular basis. 

HR is almost always going to drift the longer you're on your feet, so I always started lower.

 

[Ned]

And not meant to mess with your head or anything, but I want to set your expectations.... I never did MAF.  Not a fan of his formula driving the whole process.

 

[gruecd]

Also, just a couple more quick thoughts:

--It's been 1 month since I started this.  Finally feel like I'm running out there.  It doesn't feel so painfully slow most of the time.  I walk very rarely and it's almost exclusively up steep hills.  My cadence is back up to ~170+ consistently which just feels better.

--Along the same lines, I'm so used to running slowly now that when I get any kind of "speed", it feels so fast.  I have a downhill almost a mile into my route that I'm usually doing and this morning it felt like I was FLYING down the downhill.  Checked Strava and.....9:20 pace.  So dumb.

--Weight down to 197.  Feel better than ever.  I'm aiming for below 190.  I was down to 192 after a run the other day which is just crazy.  Still no increase in appetite despite the increase in miles. 

--Speaking of increase in miles, I'm officially at my highest month total ever so far at 127 miles and 24 hours.  One day still to go.  Considering this has probably been the hottest month I can ever remember here since moving to STL in 2008, I'll take it.

I see you, @gianmarco.  Keep up the good work!

 

[gruecd]

10 miles last night at 7:43/mile.  82° at the start but only 45% humidity.  I didn't die, but I did jump straight into the pool when I got back.

SRD today.

 

[Zasada]

@gianmarco need to get you in a race to see if all this running slow translates to running fast!  Go sign up!

 

[gianmarco]

And not meant to mess with your head or anything, but I want to set your expectations.... I never did MAF.  Not a fan of his formula driving the whole process.

Oh, it's all good. 

FWIW, I think the number I'm using is pretty good from a "feel" standpoint.  Overall, I don't feel much of a difference between HR 130 and HR of 139.  It's all very easy effort.  Once I hit 140, I can tell when I'm going above that.  It's the point where I start to "feel" some extra effort and increased breathing.  Subtle, but it's there.  Even though it's not uncomfortable, when I'm at 145, I doubt I could talk freely as if nothing was going on.  I can do that for anything 140 or below.  So, I think the "number" is right.

Now, whether or not training at that number is actually helping or not, who knows.  The science of it makes sense but who knows how truly accurate it is when there's so many variables.  For example, I wonder if I'm having some increased speeds because temps/humidity are down a bit from when I first started.  Or maybe it's just the fact that I've gone over 30 miles 3 of the last 4 weeks.

But, what I do know is that this type of running is perfect for this weather because it's so easy.  I also know I recover so much faster.  Instead of sweating a half hour after a workout, I'm done sweating in 5 minutes and feel completely refreshed.  Either way, it's a new challenge that I'm enjoying.  The HR and paying attention to it while I run has completely changed what I think about on runs.  It takes almost my complete focus.  I also focus on being as easy and economical when I run to keep the HR down as well.  I mentioned it earlier, but I feel so much more peaceful on runs without any negative thoughts.  The ONLY exception to that was a couple days ago when my HR was wonky and kept shooting up and it was driving me insane.  I don't know if it was off or not but I just chalked it up to that and just ran because otherwise I was going to just stop running that day.

I did learn when I went a different way (my old 5 mile route) that I need to avoid roads with lots of cars and other people.  Seeing them and knowing they are seeing me made me pick up the pace when I shouldn't and made it hard to keep the HR down.   Stupid ego but nothing I could do about it.  I can't shuffle along at 12 min/mile in front of a line of cars.  So I just do what I can to avoid it.  I also invariably spike when I see someone else running because I unconsciously pick up the pace.  It's stupid but I know I do it and I know it happens.  Luckily it's infrequent and only lasts a short time.

 

[Ned]

I also know I recover so much faster. 

This is the main benefit to this sort of running.  You're increasing your volume while not taxing your system too much (even in the dead of summer).  Keep it up - it's going to take a long time, but I'll bet you good money your speed will still be there whenever you decide to go race.  It took me a few years, but my MP (in my mid 30s) became faster than my 5K PR from high school.  

 

[gianmarco]

@gianmarco need to get you in a race to see if all this running slow translates to running fast!  Go sign up!

I'm racing a 15K in late November.  Not interested in racing before then and not even that excited for that one.  I wanna get at least 2-3 more months of this under my belt until I see what I'm ready for.  Maybe more.

Of note, I hadn't mentioned it in here yet, but we are moving in a month and are also in the process of selling our house.  That was the main reason for a big dropoff in miles a couple weeks ago.  Still have lots to do with all that and kids starting school in a couple weeks and then a vacation a couple weeks after our move in later September.  Needless to say, mindless running now without race prepping is all I can manage.  I might get a little specific race training in October or November leading up to the 15K, but if not, I'm not going to worry much about that. 

Right now, I'm in a good spot and just enjoying the ride.

 

[The Iguana]

I did learn when I went on a different way (my old 5 mile route) that I need to avoid roads with lots of cars and other people.  Seeing them and knowing they are seeing me made me pick up the pace when I shouldn't and made it hard to keep the HR down.   Stupid ego but nothing I could do about it.  I can't shuffle along at 12 min/mile in front of a line of cars.  So I just do what I can to avoid it.  I also invariably spike when I see someone else running because I unconsciously pick up the pace.  It's stupid but I know I do it and I know it happens.  Luckily it's infrequent and only lasts a short time.

Funny you mentioned this one, which triggered something I noticed recently. If I want to run slow for running slow's sake, it works best for me if I run a completely new route - and the fewer people around the better! If/when I am running a familiar route, there is almost always a point that I realize I'm looking at an upcoming checkpoint and thinking about previous runs and how fast I've gotten to that point, etc. Makes my pace pick up to "compete" with previous efforts - or at the very least when I start getting close to the end of a mile marker, I'll just start speeding up without really trying. 

When I was in Seattle and my long run was somewhere completely new, I found myself looking at the surroundings more, and thinking less about getting to mile mark X by some time. Of course, also helped to slow me down there by constantly going up/down hill.

 

[The Iguana]

I'm racing a 15K in late November.  Not interested in racing before then and not even that excited for that one.  I wanna get at least 2-3 more months of this under my belt until I see what I'm ready for.  Maybe more.

Not sure how you do this one, however. While I'm just having fun out there doing it, I love that I have a couple of events back on the calendar. Makes each run more "meaningful" for me. I love the anticipation!

 

[Zasada]

This morning I finally got my usual 10K run back down to an average HR of 133 (MAF threshold is 134) but I had to run 20s/km (30s/mi) slower (than my pre-marathon peak) to do it.

Sure, I was training then at temps of ~0C (32F), and this morning it was 13C (55F), so the "heat" is likely contributing a little.  But it's also reasonable to assume that this reduced street volume is impacting my cardio.

But it's totally worth it, since I crushed my Prairie Mountain PR on Saturday.  Got me my mountain legs back!

I'm seriously considering signing-up for the Houston Marathon in January, and taking a "I'll train the way I want to train" approach to it.  Keep the mountains in the mix (instead of going 100% street training).  And then just run the marathon low-key and see what happens.  Last year, my poor execution aside, it really was a fun and well-organized race.  Plus, I'll take any excuse to get back to Houston and fill myself full of Tex-Mex and BBQ.

There's very little downside to this other than the cost of the race.  I've already run an entire marathon, and done it in under 4 hours.  So I have nothing to prove and zero desire to go back to 100% street-training to better my time.  But if I discover that I can still race streets and train in the mountains, that's a huge upside if possible/true.

 

[ChiefD]

You guys and your big......egos.....

I got over looking dumb when I run several years ago.  I am sure I look like a doofus, but honestly do not care one iota. The only time I cared was last year when it was insanely hot. I asked my wife if I ran shirtless would I look like an overweight flabby dad and would she be embarrassed.

She said no. Now I’m running all fancy free out there. Flaunt it boys, fast or slow. If anyone is gonna judge tell them to get off their fat-asses and join me.

 

[Zasada]

You guys and your big......egos.....

Oh I'm 100% in the "run faster when near others" camp.  It's so involuntary.  Even at 0400, it's dark, and I pass some schlub who's walking to work at the hospital, I find myself upping the pace a bit.

If there's Lululemon and pony tails in the mix, then it's even faster.  

 

[Zasada]

I asked my wife if I ran shirtless would I look like an overweight flabby dad and would she be embarrassed.

No shirtless running for me.  My POW-camp physique would impress only those with eating disorders.  

 

[gianmarco]

If I get under 190, I'll consider running shirtless.  But even then, probably not.

 

[SFBayDuck]

@gianmarco, you're doing it right.  

I do think running in the lower-mid of your MAF range is probably a good thing, especially if you find yourself worrying about staying just under that 140 number and that HR alarm going off all the time.  Because guess what that is likely to do?  That's right, bump up your HR a few beats.  I know some people just can't do MAF because trying to stay under a specific HR stresses them out too much to the point that they can't really run under that HR.  Not saying that's you, but just sort of sticking around 135 and letting it slowly drift up during the run is probably a good thing.  

 

[bushdocda]

Well, some more data points:

3 1/2 weeks ago:  11:41 pace (SI 152) HR 139

1 week ago:  10:40 pace (SI 125) -- HR 139

Today:  10:39 pace (SI 136) HR 137

Today's run was so under control.  My HR alarm went off maybe 10-15 times total.  I've never been close to that.  Every mile was 139 or lower.  Easy consistent pacing and cadence.  Felt really good this morning.

I had another question for you guys that have done this ( @-OZ-, @bushdocda, @Ned and @SFBayDuck

I realized I've been treating almost every run like an MAF test.  Meaning, I read how the closer you are to your MAF threshold (HR of 140 for me), the faster you'll see gains.  So, every run I'm flirting with that number the entire time and constantly going over slightly and then backing it down or dropping below it and trying to get it back to it so that it stays at or as close to 140 as possible from beginning to end.

Today (and with a couple other runs recently), I've started keeping it lower (even beyond the warmup) and keeping the pacing more consistent and letting the HR build up to it toward the end of the run.  I get far less spikes but I'm also spending more time below that threshold.  For example, today my mile HR splits were 132, 135, 137, 138, 139, 139.  My previous runs would be like 138, 140, 140, 140, 140, 141.

I'm sure in the end it doesn't matter that much, but I'm curious if you've heard/read about that or any experience with which way is better to do on a regular basis. 

Will read all the subsequent replies later but just the thought of a HR alert caused my HR to go up

I like the gradual build you describe as it leads to much less drift or blow-bys. You doing good. Keep doing good!

 

[MAC_32]

And not meant to mess with your head or anything, but I want to set your expectations.... I never did MAF.  Not a fan of his formula driving the whole process.

Agreed, but I am all for anything that gets him to run more miles, which is exactly what this is doing. Keep it up!

 

[ChiefD]

but we are moving in a month and are also in the process of selling our house. 

Wait...wut?

Guess the relay crew tainted that house for life. Sorry for the new owners. 

(looks like we won't get invited to the new place.... )

 

[gianmarco]

Wait...wut?

Guess the relay crew tainted that house for life. Sorry for the new owners. 

(looks like we won't get invited to the new place.... )

After that weekend, we could never look at that house the same.

But seriously, we've been looking for over 2 years now. Wanted a pool and can't put one there. So we found a house with one. Fingers crossed, but so far so good and closing in about 3 weeks. Now just need to sell ours.

Of course you're always invited. We specifically found a house that has an outdoor bathroom. I told my wife that was not negotiable.

 

[MAC_32]

You guys and your big......egos.....

I got over looking dumb when I run several years ago.  I am sure I look like a doofus, but honestly do not care one iota. The only time I cared was last year when it was insanely hot. I asked my wife if I ran shirtless would I look like an overweight flabby dad and would she be embarrassed.

She said no. Now I’m running all fancy free out there. Flaunt it boys, fast or slow. If anyone is gonna judge tell them to get off their fat-asses and join me.

I'm fairly certain that relay race aside I have not worn a shirt to run since the beginning of June.

 

[gruecd]

I'm fairly certain that relay race aside I have not worn a shirt to run since the beginning of June.

Same.

 

[BassNBrew]

You guys and your big......egos.....

I got over looking dumb when I run several years ago.  I am sure I look like a doofus, but honestly do not care one iota. The only time I cared was last year when it was insanely hot. I asked my wife if I ran shirtless would I look like an overweight flabby dad and would she be embarrassed.

She said no. Now I’m running all fancy free out there. Flaunt it boys, fast or slow. If anyone is gonna judge tell them to get off their fat-asses and join me.

I did the shirtless thing several hours this weekend and the Department of Tourism asked me to kindly leave the state and not come back

 

[The Iguana]

I'm fairly certain that relay race aside I have not worn a shirt to run since the beginning of June.

I've only run once without a shirt since I started this journey. And that was only about the last 5 or 6 miles of the last HM I ran in May. And that was only because the rain was so bad that even my "quick dry" shirt was so wet it weighed like 18 pounds and I wanted to shred the weight.

 

[The Iguana]

Although, I did break out a couple of my sleeveless shirts recently that I used to do some crossfit in - they aren't quite tank tops but are similar - I'm looking for more because I'm a big fan. The problem is that the couple I have found that are similar recently have been "compression shirts" and I'm not quite a fan of those.

 

[JAA]

After that weekend, we could never look at that house the same.

But seriously, we've been looking for over 2 years now. Wanted a pool and can't put one there. So we found a house with one. Fingers crossed, but so far so good and closing in about 3 weeks. Now just need to sell ours.

Of course you're always invited. We specifically found a house that has an outdoor bathroom. I told my wife that was not negotiable.

... how many yards is the pool?

 

[JAA]

That run kicked my ###.  I love running in the heat but the 93f and 50% humidity broke me.  Making the 2 hours was all I could do.  Now, if I had aid stations every mile with water im sure it would have been easier.  Not having much if any cover and the heat reflecting off of the pavement and cement was brutal.

The good news is that was my last long run before the race.  My tapering starts next week.  Yay me!

 

[gianmarco]

That run kicked my ###.  I love running in the heat but the 93f and 50% humidity broke me.  Making the 2 hours was all I could do.  Now, if I had aid stations every mile with water im sure it would have been easier.  Not having much if any cover and the heat reflecting off of the pavement and cement was brutal.

The good news is that was my last long run before the race.  My tapering starts next week.  Yay me!

Enjoy and good luck, GB. 

Hoping you stay healthy too.

 

[tri-man 47]

It’s getting serious. I just set feeding alarms for 930 and 1030. This is in prep of my 11:15/11:30 start run time. Half pb&j each alarm simulating my feeding schedule the last 2 hours of the bike before starting the run. 

Get really serious and start mashing a banana into your mouth using only one hand.

 

[tri-man 47]

I also invariably spike when I see someone else running because I unconsciously pick up the pace.  It's stupid but I know I do it and I know it happens.  Luckily it's infrequent and only lasts a short time.

I saw a quote of Joan Benoit Samuelson, where she said that when she started running, she was so slow that she'd stop and pretend to be looking at the scenery when a car would drive by.  So you're in good company with JBS!

 

[tri-man 47]

we are moving in a month and are also in the process of selling our house. 

Impress us by telling us you picked the new house in part because it's a good base point for new running routes.   

 

[gianmarco]

Impress us by telling us you picked the new house in part because it's a good base point for new running routes.   

No lie, but after leaving the new house for the first time after seeing it, I drove a bit around to see what it was like to run. I also looked at that on the map before even going to see it. And as I went to see it while my wife was out of town, when I told her about it, that was part of the description.

The road it's on is a semi-busy road and it's got rolling hills but not as steep as where I took you guys. It's also got a nice sidewalk the whole way and not right on the street. There will be plenty available to run and I'm looking forward to new routes.

 

[The Iguana]

it's funny what silly numbers that mean nothing will do to me... per strava I started the day 12.2 miles short of my highest monthly total of the year. Went out today on a "normal route" that is right at 5 miles so of course, I added an extra in and out around the square to turn it into 6.3. Now I just have to do 6 or more tomorrow to set a new strava best. 

 

 

[tri-man 47]

Garmin news:

1) The new Garmin Fenix 5X Plus continues to be a joy.  

2) Last week I ran with both my new Garmin Fenix and my old Garmin 310 with the HR chest strap for two runs, an easy 12 miler with a steady, low HR and an 8 miler with 5 miles of tempo.  The HRs of the Fenix and the 310 stayed almost exactly the same throughout both runs. FWIW.  That doesn't explain the low HR in the 8K a while back, but it certainly validates the accuracy of the Fenix' wrist-based monitor.

3) So a woman my wife used to work with is now an admin asst at our doctor's office, and we typically chat for a minute when going in for an appointment.  Last week when I was in, she asked if I was still running and if I had advice for a running watch for her teenage grandson, who had started running and cross country.  Since I'm set with my new Fenix, I was able to "pay it forward" and offer to give my old Garmin to her grandson, which is what I did.  I packaged it up, wrote a nice note, and dropped it off yesterday.  She was thrilled, and I was really pleased at the opportunity to support a new, young runner.