Ran a 10k - Official Thread (14 Viewers)

[pbm107]

Insanity for that kind of $.

But if they help deliver anything close to a 4% improvement in performance they are worth the price. We are all insane in this thread, hundreds of hours of training with the hope of good weather on race day for 1-2% PR.

I haven't purchased a pair yet, but I am considering it.

 

[TripleThreat]

I think it’s the light foam that fails. 

exactly what I've seen pics of.

Hoka Carbon X are *only* $180  ...   that's a bargain.

 

[TripleThreat]

 We are all insane in this thread, hundreds of hours of training with the hope of good weather on race day for 1-2% PR.

I just hope I get through my runs w/o having to poop 

 

[Juxtatarot]

PR*

* In Nike Zoomx Vaporflys

 

[Ned]

Insanity for that kind of $.

But if they help deliver anything close to a 4% improvement in performance they are worth the price. We are all insane in this thread, hundreds of hours of training with the hope of good weather on race day for 1-2% PR.

I haven't purchased a pair yet, but I am considering it.

Yeah I know what you mean.  I'd be lying if I wasn't tempted by them.  Everyone's going to have a different take, but there's a big difference in those two things in bold:

"hundreds of hours of training with the hope of good weather on race day for 1-2% PR" - getting that 1% PR from me working hard.  I improved my time.

"4% improvement in performance they are worth the price" - getting 4% (or even half of what they promise) for $250 isn't the same to me.  I didn't improve my time, the shoes improved my time.

 

[bushdocda]

I’m hopeful for the day when 98% of running shoes don’t look so funky to me. 

 

[pbm107]

Yeah I know what you mean.  I'd be lying if I wasn't tempted by them.  Everyone's going to have a different take, but there's a big difference in those two things in bold:

"hundreds of hours of training with the hope of good weather on race day for 1-2% PR" - getting that 1% PR from me working hard.  I improved my time.

"4% improvement in performance they are worth the price" - getting 4% (or even half of what they promise) for $250 isn't the same to me.  I didn't improve my time, the shoes improved my time.

I go back and forth on this and what you described is probably why I haven't purchased a pair yet, but at the same time I am no longer wearing the Nike Air Pegasus 1993.

 

[Ned]

I go back and forth on this and what you described is probably why I haven't purchased a pair yet, but at the same time I am no longer wearing the Nike Air Pegasus 1993.

Yeah its a tough line to draw.  One could argue just wearing shoes is a performance advantage.

 

[gianmarco]

Yeah I know what you mean.  I'd be lying if I wasn't tempted by them.  Everyone's going to have a different take, but there's a big difference in those two things in bold:

"hundreds of hours of training with the hope of good weather on race day for 1-2% PR" - getting that 1% PR from me working hard.  I improved my time.

"4% improvement in performance they are worth the price" - getting 4% (or even half of what they promise) for $250 isn't the same to me.  I didn't improve my time, the shoes improved my time.

You could also argue you still ran the time. The shoes didn't make you faster than you are. You just didn't wear shoes that make you slower.

 

[gruecd]

I think it’s the light foam that fails. 

This.

 

[gianmarco]

Same with golf. If someone wants to invest money in better clubs and balls that add distance and accuracy, I don't think that's "wrong" or that it cheapens the performance. 

As long as they aren't artificially adding something that isn't otherwise there, then go for it and don't feel bad about it.

 

[Zasada]

Same with golf. If someone wants to invest money in better clubs and balls that add distance and accuracy, I don't think that's "wrong" or that it cheapens the performance. 

As long as they aren't artificially adding something that isn't otherwise there, then go for it and don't feel bad about it.

Also, you're racing against runners who have access to the shoe and use it.  For folks like @gruecd, that could mean an AG podium finish.

For me, 4% on a four-hour marathon is almost 10 minutes.  Us slowpokes have even more reason to get them!

But, as of right now, I can gain the most time by not having to poop (as @TripleThreat already noted).  Cost me just under 10 minutes this morning on an otherwise speedy (for me, not for you BMFs) 20K.

 

[ChiefD]

But if they help deliver anything close to a 4% improvement in performance they are worth the price. We are all insane in this thread, hundreds of hours of training with the hope of good weather on race day for 1-2% PR.

I haven't purchased a pair yet, but I am considering it.

Yeah I know what you mean.  I'd be lying if I wasn't tempted by them.  Everyone's going to have a different take, but there's a big difference in those two things in bold:

"hundreds of hours of training with the hope of good weather on race day for 1-2% PR" - getting that 1% PR from me working hard.  I improved my time.

"4% improvement in performance they are worth the price" - getting 4% (or even half of what they promise) for $250 isn't the same to me.  I didn't improve my time, the shoes improved my time.

I go back and forth on this and what you described is probably why I haven't purchased a pair yet, but at the same time I am no longer wearing the Nike Air Pegasus 1993.

You could also argue you still ran the time. The shoes didn't make you faster than you are. You just didn't wear shoes that make you slower.

It's an interesting conversation to say the least. I come out on the lines of this:

There are a lot of factors on race day that can determine success, failure, small success...whatever. It could be the clothing you wore. The type of foods you ate. How you hydrated during the race. The weight of your shoes. Did you get a haircut to shave off a few ounces of weight.

All of these things matter. But not one of these reflects your fitness level. You are either fit, or not. So all the other extraneous stuff is stuff you can control and put yourself in the best position to be at your best on race day.

If a running shoe gives you a better shot, and you can afford it, you take it. If a tank top works better for chafing, you take it. If you eat 150 chews and it works, you take it. These are the things that can make a difference to be sure.

But your fitness is your fitness. You can't hide from that. 

 

[SayWhat?]

 I’ll try to post details in the next week or two, but I’m completely wrecked.  Spent an hour talking my wife and the doctor she works with down from being adamant that she needed to drive me 2 hours to the nearest major hospital to get me put on IV’s and checked for rhabdo.  

So my wife still wouldn’t quite let this go, despite hydrating like crazy on Saturday and Sunday.  As a bit of a compromise, she kindly ask that I see my general practitioner on the way back into the Twin Cities on Monday and have my labs run.  “Absolutely,” I responded.  Had labs drawn at about 3:30pm, picked up our daughters from school, and went out for a bite to eat as a family.  We were leaving the restaurant and on our drive home at 5:45pm when my doctors number popped up on my phone.  ####.  Handed a headphone over to my wife and plugged the other into my ear as my wife death stared me.  I click my phone to answer and hear my doctor’s voice, after hours. Double ####.

”Hi SayWhat, it’s Dr. Nelson.  Your lab results are back and they are as follows...(reads normal ranges for four markers relating to kidney/liver function and myoglobin in the bloodstream then reads mine, all of which are between 3 and 1,000x ...yes, one thousand times...higher)...as you can see, your results are grossly abnormal.  Please get to an emergency room ASAP.”

Head to the ER with a bit of panic, and get checked in.  Confirmed rhabdo with an acute kidney injury.  They ran IVs for the past 40 hours straight and labs progressed to the point they just discharged me this morning and think all with progress back to normal with no long term impact (though the nephrologist says almost impossible to say whether the kidney injury may have resulted in cells that died).   Definitely has me reconsidering ultras and whether or not the risks are worth it, for me personally. That bums me out incredibly badly, but I certainly love my wife and daughters more than running 100s.  I’ll touch more on what was off and how I (and my wife) suspected rhabdo and knew something was a bit different with this race compared to prior races when I get around to a race report.  

 

[ChiefD]

Holy Yikes, man.

Glad you went to the ER. 

 

[AAABatteries]

There are a lot of factors on race day that can determine success, failure, small success...whatever. It could be the clothing you wore. The type of foods you ate. How you hydrated during the race. The weight of your shoes. Did you get a haircut to shave off a few ounces of weight.

All of these things matter. But not one of these reflects your fitness level. You are either fit, or not. So all the other extraneous stuff is stuff you can control and put yourself in the best position to be at your best on race day.

It is interesting and I'm coming at this from a completely different angle - I'd done a few races but I've never "raced" anything.  I couldn't even tell you what my PR is for any distance.  This conversation and how this year has gone has motivated me to begin racing some next year.

 

[Zasada]

Head to the ER with a bit of panic, and get checked in.  Confirmed rhabdo with an acute kidney injury.  They ran IVs for the past 40 hours straight and labs progressed to the point they just discharged me this morning and think all with progress back to normal with no long term impact (though the nephrologist says almost impossible to say whether the kidney injury may have resulted in cells that died).   Definitely has me reconsidering ultras and whether or not the risks are worth it, for me personally. That bums me out incredibly badly, but I certainly love my wife and daughters more than running 100s.  I’ll touch more on what was off and how I (and my wife) suspected rhabdo and knew something was a bit different with this race compared to prior races when I get around to a race report.  

HFS.  Glad your wife convinced you to get tests done.  Wives are often right on this stuff, especially medical professionals like yours!

Hopefully you can identify the cause and avoid it for future 100s.  If the cause is "running a 100-miler" then I'm glad to see you're willing to take that off the menu to due to the risk.  But hopefully it isn't.

 

[Ned]

Did you get a haircut to shave off a few ounces of weight.

Just how fn hairy are you?   

Wait, don't answer that!

 

[Ned]

So my wife still wouldn’t quite let this go, despite hydrating like crazy on Saturday and Sunday.  As a bit of a compromise, she kindly ask that I see my general practitioner on the way back into the Twin Cities on Monday and have my labs run.  “Absolutely,” I responded.  Had labs drawn at about 3:30pm, picked up our daughters from school, and went out for a bite to eat as a family.  We were leaving the restaurant and on our drive home at 5:45pm when my doctors number popped up on my phone.  ####.  Handed a headphone over to my wife and plugged the other into my ear as my wife death stared me.  I click my phone to answer and hear my doctor’s voice, after hours. Double ####.

”Hi SayWhat, it’s Dr. Nelson.  Your lab results are back and they are as follows...(reads normal ranges for four markers relating to kidney/liver function and myoglobin in the bloodstream then reads mine, all of which are between 3 and 1,000x ...yes, one thousand times...higher)...as you can see, your results are grossly abnormal.  Please get to an emergency room ASAP.”

Head to the ER with a bit of panic, and get checked in.  Confirmed rhabdo with an acute kidney injury.  They ran IVs for the past 40 hours straight and labs progressed to the point they just discharged me this morning and think all with progress back to normal with no long term impact (though the nephrologist says almost impossible to say whether the kidney injury may have resulted in cells that died).   Definitely has me reconsidering ultras and whether or not the risks are worth it, for me personally. That bums me out incredibly badly, but I certainly love my wife and daughters more than running 100s.  I’ll touch more on what was off and how I (and my wife) suspected rhabdo and knew something was a bit different with this race compared to prior races when I get around to a race report.  

Holy hell dude, thank god for your wife.  I can't recall ever being so taken back with chills while reading a post.  Glad you're rebounding - you certainly put a whole new spin on pushing your body to the limit.

Just wow.

         

 

[gruecd]

So my wife still wouldn’t quite let this go, despite hydrating like crazy on Saturday and Sunday.  As a bit of a compromise, she kindly ask that I see my general practitioner on the way back into the Twin Cities on Monday and have my labs run.  “Absolutely,” I responded.  Had labs drawn at about 3:30pm, picked up our daughters from school, and went out for a bite to eat as a family.  We were leaving the restaurant and on our drive home at 5:45pm when my doctors number popped up on my phone.  ####.  Handed a headphone over to my wife and plugged the other into my ear as my wife death stared me.  I click my phone to answer and hear my doctor’s voice, after hours. Double ####.

”Hi SayWhat, it’s Dr. Nelson.  Your lab results are back and they are as follows...(reads normal ranges for four markers relating to kidney/liver function and myoglobin in the bloodstream then reads mine, all of which are between 3 and 1,000x ...yes, one thousand times...higher)...as you can see, your results are grossly abnormal.  Please get to an emergency room ASAP.”

Head to the ER with a bit of panic, and get checked in.  Confirmed rhabdo with an acute kidney injury.  They ran IVs for the past 40 hours straight and labs progressed to the point they just discharged me this morning and think all with progress back to normal with no long term impact (though the nephrologist says almost impossible to say whether the kidney injury may have resulted in cells that died).   Definitely has me reconsidering ultras and whether or not the risks are worth it, for me personally. That bums me out incredibly badly, but I certainly love my wife and daughters more than running 100s.  I’ll touch more on what was off and how I (and my wife) suspected rhabdo and knew something was a bit different with this race compared to prior races when I get around to a race report.  

Damn, dude.     Glad you're OK and that your wife stuck to her guns!

 

[gruecd]

I think you guys talked me into snagging a pair of the Next%.  They're 6.6oz with an 8mm drop, which really isn't all that different from my NB Zante Pursuits at 7.4 and 6mm.  I've run in the 4% and didn't feel noticeably faster or anything, but we'll give these a try...

 

[AAABatteries]

Reiterate what others have said - @SayWhat? - hopefully no long-term damage.  Scary stuff but I'm still in awe of your effort - unreal.

 

[The Iguana]

today kind of sucked... some combination of a 5 days in vegas with a crappy diet, numerous adult beverages, and lack of sleep combined with a hot, humid day, and probably a little too much pace, and I'm hurting still after running about 4 hours ago +/-. 

 

[tri-man 47]

@SayWhat? - say what?!?!?  Glad you got checked out; hoping you can address the situation.  IF you need to back away from the ultras (at least for a while) ...helluva way to go out!

 

[tri-man 47]

Yeah its a tough line to draw.  One could argue just wearing shoes is a performance advantage.

I've wrestled with this.  But since I'm also a tri-man, I am well aware of how equipment can yield a distinct advantage.  You understand this as well from your time on the bike.  While I'm not willing to spend $3-5,000 for a competitive bike to use in maybe a handful of races over coming years, I didn't mind spending $250 on the Vaporfly Next%.  As mentioned, I'll use them over a sequence of increasing mileage training runs and then for the MCM in late October.  Ideally, I keep the mileage below 100 miles, then put them in the box for a year until I train for Boston.

I'm hoping my training can put me close to a 3:30 marathon (8:00/mi).  It's likely though, that that's 3-5 minutes short of the AG podium.  If I can get 5-8 minutes from enhancement of my running form ...

 

[ChiefD]

The good news is I lost 3 pounds today. The bad news is that I had to run in 287 degrees for an hour to do it.

 

[-OZ-]

Exactly.

Run Fast, Run More, Don't Be A Pooooooooooooooooosay!

I'm definitely not running fast lately, just putting in some base mileage. 

I've basically concluded that I'm not doing Hansen this time, just go  mostly Z2 with one faster run midweek and long runs in the weekend. Whatever plan that is starts in October. September is just base mileage in zone 2.  I'm already sucking, with under 40 each week. I'm just getting back into running 4-5x /week, so I'm not put off by it, just being realistic.

So September, ramp up to 50/18 by the last week, October and November put in the mileage, taper 2 weeks. 

Thoughts?

 

[tri-man 47]

I'm definitely not running fast lately, just putting in some base mileage. 

I've basically concluded that I'm not doing Hansen this time, just go  mostly Z2 with one faster run midweek and long runs in the weekend. Whatever plan that is starts in October. September is just base mileage in zone 2.  I'm already sucking, with under 40 each week. I'm just getting back into running 4-5x /week, so I'm not put off by it, just being realistic.

So September, ramp up to 50/18 by the last week, October and November put in the mileage, taper 2 weeks. 

Thoughts?

Do what your schedule allows you to do!    As you state, max your miles; midweek tempo; long on the weekend.  The rest is kind of just fussing and fretting over details.

 

[ChiefD]

I'm definitely not running fast lately, just putting in some base mileage. 

I've basically concluded that I'm not doing Hansen this time, just go  mostly Z2 with one faster run midweek and long runs in the weekend. Whatever plan that is starts in October. September is just base mileage in zone 2.  I'm already sucking, with under 40 each week. I'm just getting back into running 4-5x /week, so I'm not put off by it, just being realistic.

So September, ramp up to 50/18 by the last week, October and November put in the mileage, taper 2 weeks. 

Thoughts?

If you are just under 40 a week now, you are in good shape. Looks good to me.  

 

[SteelCurtain]

Wow.  What a sobering read @SayWhat?.  Glad they caught it and props to your wife 

 

[SteelCurtain]

In terms of shoes, i have the vaporflies.  I think if someone wants to spend $1000 on a shoe, they can.  They still need to put one foot in front of the other.

im not convinced VF are the cats meow but I’ll wear mine in my next race.  

 

[-OZ-]

In terms of shoes, i have the vaporflies.  I think if someone wants to spend $1000 on a shoe, they can.  They still need to put one foot in front of the other.

im not convinced VF are the cats meow but I’ll wear mine in my next race.  

The pair I started using today cost $29.99 and the brand isn't on Strava. 

 

[BassNBrew]

Sitting about 2 miles from home dreading the walk home and leaving a puddle of sweat at Ben and Jerry’s. Another day, another fail. 5 miles at 13 pace and the wheels fell off. Going to blame in on the weather

rs:bap 

 

[BassNBrew]

Lots of people say they left it all out on the course but no doubt saywhat takes that crown

 

[AAABatteries]

Sitting about 2 miles from home dreading the walk home and leaving a puddle of sweat at Ben and Jerry’s. Another day, another fail. 5 miles at 13 pace and the wheels fell off. Going to blame in on the weather

rs:bap 

 

keep at it BB - you will have a breakthrough soon

 

[ChiefD]

Sitting about 2 miles from home dreading the walk home and leaving a puddle of sweat at Ben and Jerry’s. Another day, another fail. 5 miles at 13 pace and the wheels fell off. Going to blame in on the weather

rs:bap 

Clearly you forgot to chug a beer.

 

[-OZ-]

Clearly you forgot to chug a beer.

Or eat some fish tacos.

 

[JShare87]

I have a Royal blue pair of Nike Vapofly 4%s that are size 11.5. They are the flyknit version and too small for me. If anyone wants them, pm me your address, and I’ll get them shipped out to you within the week. 

 

[bushdocda]

I have a Royal blue pair of Nike Vapofly 4%s that are size 11.5. They are the flyknit version and too small for me. If anyone wants them, pm me your address, and I’ll get them shipped out to you within the week. 

What size do you wear normally, J?I’m an 11 in most shoes and 11.5 in Brooks.  Not sure I’m fast enough to make the work. 

 

[JShare87]

What size do you wear normally, J?I’m an 11 in most shoes and 11.5 in Brooks.  Not sure I’m fast enough to make the work. 

12. Only one way to find out. You’re the first, so pm me your address if you want them. If they don’t work out, you can send them to someone else.

 

[bushdocda]

12. Only one way to find out. You’re the first, so pm me your address if you want them. If they don’t work out, you can send them to someone else.

Will do and will do. 

 

[SteelCurtain]

Will do and will do. 

I’m interested if they don’t work out.

 

[gianmarco]

I’m interested if they don’t work out.

I'm a size 14 and I'm interested too.....

 

[ChiefD]

I'm a size 14 and I'm interested too.....

If they make it past Yan I'd be interested also. 

 

[gianmarco]

If they make it past Yan I'd be interested also. 

You got it

 

[tri-man 47]

FYI, I normally wear 10 1/2 shoes (regular and running) but needed size 11 for my Vaporfly.

 

[ChiefD]

FYI, I normally wear 10 1/2 shoes (regular and running) but needed size 11 for my Vaporfly.

Get in line buddy.

 

[Ned]

Buncha hoors up in here.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Damn @SayWhat?!  I know you said you'd give more detail later, but was ibuprofen involved?

Heal up.

 

[SayWhat?]

Damn @SayWhat?!  I know you said you'd give more detail later, but was ibuprofen involved?

Heal up.

Technically the answer is "yes," as I popped one dose of 600mg at about the 50 mile mark.  Realistically, I'm thinking that the factors that contributed more than a single dose of ibu were (likely a bit of) dehydration during a sneaky humid day on Friday during the first half of the race combined with pushing my body harder than I had in previous races.  I ran most everything I could, including rolling uphills that I previously may have been more likely to hike.  My leg muscles most certainly hadn't ever experienced that much impact before, and that's undoubtedly where the muscle breakdown occurred.  I think when you combine mild dehydration, the constant ups/downs of that course, the sustained effort, and my relative modest amount of training miles, that it was just too much to overcome.  And in hindsight, pushing that final 7 mile leg so hard and "racing" the last two miles to hold off two other runners was idiotic, though I didn't at the time really understand nor ponder what I might be dealing with.