bushdocda
Footballguy
Outstanding race. You either have a very unique heart or a bad HR reading as you went along.
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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
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tri-man 47
Footballguy
Way to go, @MAC_32 !! 
That's great pacing and overall control.
I think I already acknowledged @The Iguana, but just in case, another pickle: I'll read your book later on over a glass of wine.
That's great pacing and overall control.I think I already acknowledged @The Iguana, but just in case, another pickle:
I'll read your book later on over a glass of wine.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
I've definitely had this issue in Boston, where I consistently end up at 26.4, which adds roughly 2 minutes (~5 seconds/mile). I've been fretting over how much to factor this in for the Marine Corp Marathon and its 30K runners. I expect it will be an issue there as well.
The Iguana
Footballguy
Something was totally whack about the HR readings. Not sure if I had a circulatory issue, watch issue, combo, what. No way my HR was really going down like that. My watch will buzz at me a minute or 2 after stopping the clock and let me know what my 'recovery HR' is. I felt that buzz and looked down - it read a recovery HR of like 130-something - which was likely legit-ish.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Be a little more assertive at the beginning than you want to and you shouldn't have a problem. That early incline breaks things up very quickly. Still may run long and I agree with approaching BQ races as if it's > 26.2, especially if you're close to the cutoff in the first place. You're not going to run all of the tangents perfectly in any race and there's more opportunities to error the longer the race,
The Iguana
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
Over a minute faster than your 99.x goal discussed a number of weeks ago. You've got real talent you're re-activating from your youth! Can't wait to read your RR from crushing your first marathon.
What's the #beatgrue time goal again?
The Iguana
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
I forget which of you guys was asking lately about safety vests for running in the dark, but I saw today that the Noxgear Tracer 360 is on sale right now for $39.95 (42% off) with free shipping.
www.noxgear.com/tracer360
www.noxgear.com/tracer360
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gruecd
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
Well your HM times 2.2 puts you at a 3:37 marathon. And given how easy your HM was (after reading your RR it seems you could have run it even faster), I'd be betting on #BeatGrue for sure.
Smokin'.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Great job, @The Iguana! You certainly have a good shot at sub 90 in a year or so if you keep this up!
MAC_32
Footballguy
Using the 2.15-2.25 calculator and based on our sample the lesser volume indicates he should expect something closer to 2.25 - so he's in the low 3:40's on a 26.2 (which will be closer to 26.5). Sustain the training the next 3 weeks and I think a 3:45 pace is the play. If all systems are go in the 20-22 mile window then cut it loose though.
The Iguana
Footballguy
Thanks. That seems absolutely insane but I started thinking about that over the weekend - wondering how close to it I could get and/or if I could beat it.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I had the same thought, but resisted saying anything until post marathon. But I'm also glad someone else said it! How's that for talking out of both sides of your mouth.
bushdocda
Footballguy
Take a look at my last 2 MCMs in strava if it helps. I was at 26.6 for both while trying to be tangential but iffy execution I guess.
They didn’t have the 50k previous years but I think you’ll be ahead of most of them. It’s very crowded start and depending on your first mile or so (which are uphill) plan, you probably want to cheat up in the corrals which aren’t strict at all in my experience.
The Iguana
Footballguy
Yeah, right now I just want to do the full and see what happens. But also starting to think about future races and what I want to try to do. This is fun stuff!
I was about to post Ito see if anyone had heard from you. Congrats on “cruising “ to a prWith the time? No. But it's because the race director inexplicably changed the course and added a quarter mile to the race. All of the 5Ker's I spoke with and stalked on strava net 3.2 or 3.3 and all of the 10ker's net 6.4 or 6.5 Control what you can control though. And I was happy with the race that I put down.
Cleveland Heights Happy 10K
To the surprise of no one, I was a big fan of the 10:30 start time. No alarm needed as the neurotism stroll didn't need to happen until 7:30. I sat down with my black coffee, hard boiled egg, and banana at 7:45 and just relaxed on the couch for over an hour. It was the anti race morning. Morning business, quick shower, put on the attire I laid out the night before, grabbed the pre-packed bag, and pre-packed food from the fridge (this is the key to a stress free race morning) then out the door to a race 10 mins from my house. Why can't they all be mid-morning races 5 miles from my house.
Nothing noteworthy pre-race. 10 minute warm-up and a just to be sure round 2 at the porto. This race was a two looper, first half of each loop with a net down hill around 100' then back up to finish. My wife ran it as a tune up to her fall 2018 full and went out way too fast then blew up, so that nugget floating around in the back of my head helped remind me to maintain restraint. Then I heard a skinny dude in a purple singlet at the line saying he intended to go out in 5:50 then we'll see. Perfect, I have a down hill leash to ensure I don't go out too fast. After the dust was settled from the always chaotic first quarter mile purple dude and someone else who was going to start fading soon were right in front of me with a tall drink of water a good block ahead of them. So I just settled in about 2 strides behind purple dude, but unlike him was sure to stay with the tangents - I've never seen someone out front weeble and wobble from side-to-side of the street like this guy. Hit mile 1 a little fast at 5:46, but I was just happy to see that instead of a 5:3X or 5:2X as I've done before.
The descent ended and we turned up a brick road incline. 40' over less than a quarter mile isn't anything to cry about, but it's a heart rate killer in short races. I foot chopped that thing hard in an effort to get the more steadier incline portion no further into the red than I was at the bottom. Once we settled in again on a more tame incline I could tell purple dude was starting to labor some, whether he was doing the 5K or 10K I decided if we get to the turn around mile 2.5 and I see a pace saying 6:XX then I'll surge by him. After hitting mile 2 at 6:03 and seeing a 6:11 pace at that turn I blew by him then tried to find my pace. Clocked that mile at 6:03 then turned into loop 2.
That tall drink of water from earlier, I turned into the loop and saw the bad news. He's running the 10K and he is blocks ahead of me. Oh well, just keep running your race. I was a little concerned when I got to the end of mile 4 and saw 5:56 because that same mile from earlier was 5:46 and this time around was more deliberate and far less restrained. We'll see what the legs have to say when I fire into the ascent in a few minutes. I kept gliding down, but not watching the clock this time. I turned onto the brick road and was happily surprised foot chopping ability was still there. I turned back onto side streets and starting running into 5K congestion, which didn't help with the tangents but crowd support helped maintain focus despite the fatigue. At this point I yanked the music out of my ears and fed off their energy the rest of the way.
I finally peaked at my time less than a quarter mile from the line to see the weird news. I'm already past 10K? My paces on the ascents were 5:5X? WTF. I pressed on then crossed the line more annoyed than anything at 38:30. But looking at the splits after:
5:46 (5:52 GAP) -53' elevation
6:03 (5:58 GAP) -6' elevation
6:03 (5:57 GAP) 28' elevation
5:56 (5:56 GAP) -15' elevation
5:55 (5:53 GAP) -20' elevation
5:57 (5:50 GAP) 33' elevation
5:51 (5:37 GAP) 32' elevation (0.47 miles)
I'm not sure I could have run a much better race. Maybe if I had a leash pre-5K congestion on loop 2. Or if my original leash held it together a little tighter on loop 1. But either or both of those things could have just as easily led to a more labored finish. I won't acknowledge a 10K PR based on strava (36:53), but I am going to prepare for the November half with strava paces in mind and not yesterday's actual time. Sub 80 is probably too aggressive, but it's still in the range of potential outcomes based on the calculators so it's what I'm going to keep training for.
After 8 week of hard training it was nice to hit the pause button, but once recovered I have about 5 weeks of training time left, which is plenty of time for two brutal short cycles. Let's dance.
gruecd
Footballguy
Acquaintance of mine (good friend of a good friend) was trying for an OTQ at the Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon yesterday. She'd previously run only two marathons, going 3:01 and 2:50 or something ridiculous like that. Goal here was sub-2:45 to get the Olympic "B" standard, or 6:18/mile.
She went out too fast and ran the first 10K in 37:27, which is 6:02/mile...2:38 marathon pace. Anybody wanna guess what happened?
You guessed it! She started to feel like crap and tried to adjust, but by then she'd already lit the fuse, and it was too late. The wheels came off the bus, and she finished in 2:59:23, splitting 1:20:26/1:38:57.
The moral of the story? Take it easy out of the gate. Negative splits are the way to go.
She went out too fast and ran the first 10K in 37:27, which is 6:02/mile...2:38 marathon pace. Anybody wanna guess what happened?
You guessed it! She started to feel like crap and tried to adjust, but by then she'd already lit the fuse, and it was too late. The wheels came off the bus, and she finished in 2:59:23, splitting 1:20:26/1:38:57.
The moral of the story? Take it easy out of the gate. Negative splits are the way to go.
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gruecd
Footballguy
Sub-90 was a goal that I chased for a long time before finally breaking through. I hope you get it!
gruecd
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
This x 1000. Feels like the very first thing you do as a RD. And then check it 100 times.
gruecd
Footballguy
My best advice again for this is to turn off the Auto Lap on your watch and take manual splits instead at the mile markers on the road. If you know you want to average 7:00 pace, for example, that means 7 minutes to run from one mile marker to the next....which might actually end up being 1.02 miles on your Garmin.
gruecd
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
I'm going with 3:40. I'm so impressed with @The Iguana's abilities. I've run almost double the volume YTD, and will need to scratch and claw for a 99.x HM in Nov. No way I'm underestimating our man, here.
pbm107
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'd love to be wrong and see him break through with a 3:35 coupled with a fast finish with him grinning ear-to-ear thinking @ChiefD eat my ### I'm loving this ####. I'm just remembering my 2016. It wasn't everyone here (it sure seemed like it though) but many were so sure I'd BQ based on what I was doing throughout that year, but my base prior to that year was non existent. And ultimately that was the primary piece that led to that race coming unglued. That and restraint. Like @gruecd just eluded to. That's what leads to marathon success. You can't race it then hang on. That's when you bonk, like most rookie marathoner's do. So get to that leap of faith that is the final 10K in a position to dominate it rather than getting there holding on for dear life.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I agree, but after sleeping on it I think I gleaned some clarity on this - this is a veteran group, but they almost exclusively do trail races and ultra's. It's the same company that did Burning River, not sure if it was the same team or not. But as you know in trails/ultras the actual distance is not a priority like road racing. And I'm wondering if that contributed to their eff up with this race. I just don't understand why they made the one change that they did. It was one side street over another side street, so traffic/safety wasn't an issue. Your point remains, but I think this explains how it happened.
bushdocda
Footballguy
ChiefD
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
No tears streaming down my face, no sense of elation at the finish. Just relief that it was over.
You see people celebrating and raising their arms as they cross the finish. Not for me. The finish line is just the place where I finally got to stop. It took a good 15-20 minutes before the incoherence began to fade and I actually started to appreciate my accomplishment.
Miles 21-23 of Calgary were probably the hardest thing I've done in my life. Suffering was full-on, every fibre of my being wanted to walk. By the time I got to miles 23-24, it finally became clear that I could gut out the last 4K without walking. But before that there was real, all-consuming doubt.
And yet I signed-up for Houston again. I'm dumb.
bushdocda
Footballguy
ChiefD
Footballguy
Well sure, if we all had the benefits of flying all around the world in search of the perfect conditions....Imagine the #BMFery.
Zasada
Footballguy
I'm curious why they think the elevation of Vienna (1,778ft) is acceptable. Wouldn't you want to go for sea level?
AAABatteries
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
Yeah I get that 1,700ft isn't that high. Especially given where he trains. But why not go for sea-level if you're trying to eke-out every second possible?I mean, it's almost 7,900 feet in Kenya where he trains...
gruecd
Footballguy
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bushdocda
Footballguy
Probably other logistics are favorable. Would be curious to see what other venues/locations were considered. Will search a bit.
Added:
While Vienna might not be the first place that comes to mind when you think of marathoning—it doesn’t have the name recognition of running cities like London, Berlin, or Chicago, for example—the event organizers pointed out its many pros: the weather is ideal at that time of year, the air is fresh (The Prater is called the “green lung of Vienna”), the course is easily accessible for spectators, and the time zone is only one hour behind Kipchoge’s training base in Kenya.
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pbm107
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Crossing my fingers it's more WSW than SW. That'd make for a rough 13.5-15.5 and 17.5-18.5, but it'd sure be better than some sorta headwind for basically 80-90% of miles 8-23
gruecd
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I didn't realize it was going to be so windy until just now. Hopefully that changes.
I don't have much of a plan.
I'm in the B corral so I might have to start out slow and get around people. I assumed I'd be in A like I was in 2015 but the qualification was a 2:55:00 marathon. I could have submitted a half marathon time to get in A but didn't pay attention until it was too late.
Saturday I ran the McMillan 12 with 6 at MP that I always run the weekend before. It went well, maybe even stupidly too well as I ran under MP including a 6:02 mile before a cool-down mile at the end. That said, I know my groin/adductor is going to hurt, my VO2 max is down from last fall and this winter, and I sense that my endurance isn't quite where it should be.
I guess A goal is under 3:00. However I'll be happy if I can run a smart race and pace by feel as much as possible. I historically haven't been good at the latter so let's see if I can do that better this time.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Really hoping this race goes well for you. Sucks knowing your injury just won't get better :(. And yet, you still keep putting up great runs.
Can't wait to follow along.
pbm107
Footballguy
The 6 at MP compares favorably to your 6 prior to your PR race so perhaps you are peaking at the right time. I wouldn't worry about your VO2 max #, you're a McMillan endurance monster anyway. I hope you're not in too much pain during the race, marathon's are tough enough healthy.
