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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (8 Viewers)

Wow, just learned that the Garmin 245 has an option to upload "courses".  You can create any course in Strava and then just export it into Garmin Connect.  On your watch, you navigate to courses and just start it.  I believe it gives you turn by turn directions.  I'll be trying it out in a bit  ;)

 
ChiefD said:
Just knocked out my 6 miler while carrying the 3' x 5' Chiefs flag that I hang on the front of my house.

I bet I got a hundred honks and about 5-6 videos. So if you see a Chiefs weirdo on the internet today.......well......that's shovel guy.
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Were you shirtless and dressed like the 1963 logo? Football in one hand, flag in the other in lieu of the tomahawk? (Better schtick would have been substituting a spade).

 
ChiefD said:
Just knocked out my 6 miler while carrying the 3' x 5' Chiefs flag that I hang on the front of my house.

I bet I got a hundred honks and about 5-6 videos. So if you see a Chiefs weirdo on the internet today.......well......that's shovel guy.
Click to expand...
Video or it didn't happen ;)

 
SteelCurtain said:
Rough day today.  Ran 12 Easy at 9:00 min mile to be ready for Miami.  
 

then a few hours later did 6 more.  My god.  It was brutal.  It felt like i had bonked.  Did 10 min miles!  
 

after the run, i weighed myself and i was 4-5 lbs lower than normal.  
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Is this a thing?

We used to do bricks fro Tris, but I haven't heard it for running. And not with the few hour gap.

 
I need some clarity from the vast knowledge and experience of you all.

To preface, I'm not looking to do a full marathon any time soon, I'm currently trying to improve my HM time.  I'm thinking in this case, stamina is more important than endurance (not minimizing the latter, just setting priorities).

All the HR training zones seem a bit confusing in that I see different descriptions of them on different sites.  I'm 39, so the 220-39 puts my supposed max at 181, which I have spiked over a couple times...so that cant be right.  I've been using 188 as my max for setting zones.

My garmin has zone 3 as aerobic, but I have seen on other places that zone 2 is aerobic.  

Zone 5 is anaerobic, which I get.  But, it says that it is 90%+ of max HR and its only sustainable for short bursts.  I can run at or over 90% for more than short bursts.  I've never fully pushed, but I'd guess 40 minutes or more.  Does this mean my threshold is past 90% or my max is higher or a combo?

Also, the "gray zone".  What exactly is this...what % of HR are we talking about?  I've seen that this is a bad place to do your runs, but I've also read that it can be useful/important for HM and up races.  

I know, I know.  Just run!  I just want to make sure I'm not doing myself a disservice and going backwards, which is what I've seen happens in the gray zone.

 
xulf said:
I need some clarity from the vast knowledge and experience of you all.

To preface, I'm not looking to do a full marathon any time soon, I'm currently trying to improve my HM time.  I'm thinking in this case, stamina is more important than endurance (not minimizing the latter, just setting priorities).

All the HR training zones seem a bit confusing in that I see different descriptions of them on different sites.  I'm 39, so the 220-39 puts my supposed max at 181, which I have spiked over a couple times...so that cant be right.  I've been using 188 as my max for setting zones.

My garmin has zone 3 as aerobic, but I have seen on other places that zone 2 is aerobic.  

Zone 5 is anaerobic, which I get.  But, it says that it is 90%+ of max HR and its only sustainable for short bursts.  I can run at or over 90% for more than short bursts.  I've never fully pushed, but I'd guess 40 minutes or more.  Does this mean my threshold is past 90% or my max is higher or a combo?

Also, the "gray zone".  What exactly is this...what % of HR are we talking about?  I've seen that this is a bad place to do your runs, but I've also read that it can be useful/important for HM and up races.  

I know, I know.  Just run!  I just want to make sure I'm not doing myself a disservice and going backwards, which is what I've seen happens in the gray zone.
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How are you tracking HR?  My immediate sense is you aren’t getting accurate info from Garmin.

 
SteelCurtain said:
How are you tracking HR?  My immediate sense is you aren’t getting accurate info from Garmin.
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The wrist sensor.  I've used a strap prior to this watch and I feel like these values are close based on feel (and when I used both concurrently)...but I wasnt pushing as high/hard with the strap only.

 
xulf said:
I need some clarity from the vast knowledge and experience of you all.

To preface, I'm not looking to do a full marathon any time soon, I'm currently trying to improve my HM time.  I'm thinking in this case, stamina is more important than endurance (not minimizing the latter, just setting priorities).

All the HR training zones seem a bit confusing in that I see different descriptions of them on different sites.  I'm 39, so the 220-39 puts my supposed max at 181, which I have spiked over a couple times...so that cant be right.  I've been using 188 as my max for setting zones.

My garmin has zone 3 as aerobic, but I have seen on other places that zone 2 is aerobic.  

Zone 5 is anaerobic, which I get.  But, it says that it is 90%+ of max HR and its only sustainable for short bursts.  I can run at or over 90% for more than short bursts.  I've never fully pushed, but I'd guess 40 minutes or more.  Does this mean my threshold is past 90% or my max is higher or a combo?

Also, the "gray zone".  What exactly is this...what % of HR are we talking about?  I've seen that this is a bad place to do your runs, but I've also read that it can be useful/important for HM and up races.  

I know, I know.  Just run!  I just want to make sure I'm not doing myself a disservice and going backwards, which is what I've seen happens in the gray zone.
Click to expand...
Very tough to say zones without a true HR max test. If you still have the strap I’d try it again. I get vastly better consistent readings vs wrist. 
My limited hr zone knowledge is from articles like this https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/training-in-the-grey-zone-how-to-avoid-the-zone-3-plateau/

To me it is pretty helpful at explaining the value of a bifurcated approach with workouts more like Z4 and easy recovery in Z2. But as you mention, Z3 is not all bad. And I think the stigma and issues arise when majority of runs are done in Z3 for an extended period of time. 

 
bushdocda said:
Very tough to say zones without a true HR max test. If you still have the strap I’d try it again. I get vastly better consistent readings vs wrist. 
My limited hr zone knowledge is from articles like this https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/training-in-the-grey-zone-how-to-avoid-the-zone-3-plateau/

To me it is pretty helpful at explaining the value of a bifurcated approach with workouts more like Z4 and easy recovery in Z2. But as you mention, Z3 is not all bad. And I think the stigma and issues arise when majority of runs are done in Z3 for an extended period of time. 
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What's super confusing is that using 220-age (39), my zone 3 would be 127-144 bpm.  MAF would have me at 180-39 for a 141 max.  So, the gray/bad zone is the MAF zone  :confused:

 
xulf said:
What's super confusing is that using 220-age (39), my zone 3 would be 127-144 bpm.  MAF would have me at 180-39 for a 141 max.  So, the gray/bad zone is the MAF zone  :confused:
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There are enough fluctuations from person to person that I think we’re better off learning our zones from experience rather than using a calculator.

 
xulf said:
What's super confusing is that using 220-age (39), my zone 3 would be 127-144 bpm.  MAF would have me at 180-39 for a 141 max.  So, the gray/bad zone is the MAF zone  :confused:
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I’d say that you generally want to do a lot of runs in the 140s, maybe into the 150s late on longer runs.  What you don’t want is a lot of slightly faster pacing up on the high 150s/160s.  MAF is probably down in the 130s or lower.

 
Squeezed in 5 miles this afternoon of progression, not palindromic.  Run was solid (8:27, 7:55, 7:47, 7:35).  Then during the last mile cool down (still rather brisk), I did a check on cadence - 180.

 
xulf said:
What's super confusing is that using 220-age (39), my zone 3 would be 127-144 bpm.  MAF would have me at 180-39 for a 141 max.  So, the gray/bad zone is the MAF zone  :confused:
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Yep confusing for sure. I think your max HR is probably higher and it would line up a bit better with a true tested max HR. Both are guidelines and they don’t play well together on paper. 

 
xulf said:
What's super confusing is that using 220-age (39), my zone 3 would be 127-144 bpm.  MAF would have me at 180-39 for a 141 max.  So, the gray/bad zone is the MAF zone  :confused:
Click to expand...
Actually, MAF probably has you at 136 with the modifier. At least on paper. But @tri-man 47's response above is probably a good guide.

 
tri-man 47 said:
I’d say that you generally want to do a lot of runs in the 140s, maybe into the 150s late on longer runs.  What you don’t want is a lot of slightly faster pacing up on the high 150s/160s.  MAF is probably down in the 130s or lower.
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This is me almost 1 year ago

And another

And another almost exactly 1 year ago

And the ironic thing is that I specifically mentioned that I thought my HR was good on that first run.  It wasn't and that's exactly the kind of "gray area" runs that I shouldn't be doing regularly.  I was running too fast for my fitness last year.

I'm actually doing similar paces now, but because of my increasing mileage and fitness, my HR on those same runs is in the 140's where it should be.  Not exactly MAF as I'm more mid-upper 140's, but still easy runs for me and far more aerobic than those above.  I pushed the last mile of my run on Saturday and got into the 160's.  I don't want to be that high unless I'm actually trying to push.  Those runs are coming next month, but right now, if I'm not in the 140's while taking it easy, then I'm not taking it easy enough.

FWIW, yesterday's second run was not easy for me.  Despite being same paces at lower HRs, my elevated HR reflected that I was working hard.  If I wasn't running with my wife, I would have slowed down considerably (or not even run), but I had promised I'd get out with her and decided to suck it up for one run.  If most of my runs were like that, I don't think I'd get nearly as much benefit.

ETA -- Another "benefit" of my MAF training a few months ago is that I learned what truly running at an easy pace is.  I used to think I was running easy, but I wasn't.  A lot of that is an ego thing.  I now know what running with a HR in the 130's/low 140's feels like for me.  Even being in the upper 140's feels different despite still being "easy".  As mentioned, everyone is a bit different so you'll learn your zones, but doing some really, really slow runs to see what it feels like wouldn't be a bad thing for you.  Just to learn what it's like.

@xulf

 
Last edited by a moderator:
gianmarco said:
This is me almost 1 year ago

And another

And another almost exactly 1 year ago

And the ironic thing is that I specifically mentioned that I thought my HR was good on that first run.  It wasn't and that's exactly the kind of "gray area" runs that I shouldn't be doing regularly.  I was running too fast for my fitness last year.

I'm actually doing similar paces now, but because of my increasing mileage and fitness, my HR on those same runs is in the 140's where it should be.  Not exactly MAF as I'm more mid-upper 140's, but still easy runs for me and far more aerobic than those above.  I pushed the last mile of my run on Saturday and got into the 160's.  I don't want to be that high unless I'm actually trying to push.  Those runs are coming next month, but right now, if I'm not in the 140's while taking it easy, then I'm not taking it easy enough.

FWIW, yesterday's second run was not easy for me.  Despite being same paces at lower HRs, my elevated HR reflected that I was working hard.  If I wasn't running with my wife, I would have slowed down considerably (or not even run), but I had promised I'd get out with her and decided to suck it up for one run.  If most of my runs were like that, I don't think I'd get nearly as much benefit.

ETA -- Another "benefit" of my MAF training a few months ago is that I learned what truly running at an easy pace is.  I used to think I was running easy, but I wasn't.  A lot of that is an ego thing.  I now know what running with a HR in the 130's/low 140's feels like for me.  Even being in the upper 140's feels different despite still being "easy".  As mentioned, everyone is a bit different so you'll learn your zones, but doing some really, really slow runs to see what it feels like wouldn't be a bad thing for you.  Just to learn what it's like.

@xulf
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Thanks for the reply.

I feel like the 140's that you and @tri-man 47 mentioned is probably right.  I was admittedly doing all my runs before last year's half and 15K at a moderate pace that the gray zone describes...all upper 150s to low 160s.  That got me through those and is what I needed to do to maintain my interest and see improvement (especially at low mileage).  But adding in more miles and runs that have actual purpose, I know I can't maintain those efforts on the easier days. 

@bushdocda mentioned something previously about having to slow up in order to have any sort of legs for the SOS runs...and I am starting to experience that myself.  I went out Saturday for 10 miles after a terrible night of sleep, was stuffed up, and just not feeling well.  I knew it was going to suck, so I made sure to go slow and I tried to keep my HR in the lower 140s as long as I could...well until I stopped at a cross-walk after 8 miles and my HRM started recording me in the 170s for some reason.  I could tell my body was not happy b/c the effort was much more for the pace than what I would have expected.   

What was great about that run is that yesterday I felt great.  I was supposed to do 5 easy, but my legs had some spring to them which normally doesnt happen after that long of a run, and I did a progression run and got a bump in my V02Max, which hasn't happened for awhile.  I know that you all have preached the easy runs before, but seeing it in practice was very helpful.

I just need to find that combination of pace and cadence that allows for something at least smooth feeling and not pushing the HR too high.  Right now, I know that my form and other things aren't great throughout due to being lazy and frustrated with the speed.  But, practice should make that better.

 
Absolutely blows my mind how many uptight, prudish "Karens" want to talk to the Super Bowl manager about the halftime show...  :rolleyes:

PS:  Most of them are fugly

 
gruecd said:
Absolutely blows my mind how many uptight, prudish "Karens" want to talk to the Super Bowl manager about the halftime show...  :rolleyes:

PS:  Most of them are fugly
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So, my 7 year old daughter kept asking why J-Lo and Shakira were showing so much skin...and that she thought it seemed inappropriate.  My buddy at work who has a 9 year old daughter, basically said the same thing to him during the show, and asked why they didn't have something that was more family/kid-friendly.  Heard something similar from another co-worker too with a young daughter.

I didn't really think it was over-the-top or inappropriate.  Not sure about the Karens, they probably just like to complain, but there must have been something about it that didn't feel right to kids at least. 

 
xulf said:
Thanks for the reply.

I feel like the 140's that you and @tri-man 47 mentioned is probably right.  I was admittedly doing all my runs before last year's half and 15K at a moderate pace that the gray zone describes...all upper 150s to low 160s.  That got me through those and is what I needed to do to maintain my interest and see improvement (especially at low mileage).  But adding in more miles and runs that have actual purpose, I know I can't maintain those efforts on the easier days. 

@bushdocda mentioned something previously about having to slow up in order to have any sort of legs for the SOS runs...and I am starting to experience that myself.  I went out Saturday for 10 miles after a terrible night of sleep, was stuffed up, and just not feeling well.  I knew it was going to suck, so I made sure to go slow and I tried to keep my HR in the lower 140s as long as I could...well until I stopped at a cross-walk after 8 miles and my HRM started recording me in the 170s for some reason.  I could tell my body was not happy b/c the effort was much more for the pace than what I would have expected.   

What was great about that run is that yesterday I felt great.  I was supposed to do 5 easy, but my legs had some spring to them which normally doesnt happen after that long of a run, and I did a progression run and got a bump in my V02Max, which hasn't happened for awhile.  I know that you all have preached the easy runs before, but seeing it in practice was very helpful.

I just need to find that combination of pace and cadence that allows for something at least smooth feeling and not pushing the HR too high.  Right now, I know that my form and other things aren't great throughout due to being lazy and frustrated with the speed.  But, practice should make that better.
Click to expand...
All of this.

As much as I listened early on to guys here and improved quickly when I first started, I didn't really get all of the above until these last few months. I mean, I knew it and I THOUGHT I was doing it. But the reality is I was never getting slow enough to keep it mostly aerobic. 

Also, on your run from Saturday, I don't think your HR monitor was screwy. That was probably accurate. At the end of a longer run and given how you were feeling, you pushed the pace enough to bump it up there even though normally you can run in the 9s and have a much lower HR. Look at my 2nd run yesterday. My HR is normally never that high at those paces lately but I knew it was way too fast for the condition I was in.

I'm going to try and get a few miles in today and I'm guessing I'm going to be close to 11:00 to keep it comfortable enough that my HR stays low. 

You've got the understanding of it now, so just stick with it. Make every run have a purpose. 

 
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