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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (5 Viewers)

Ah...sorry again, I missed the part about pre-race/workout nutrition.

I assume you've experimented with different options before long workouts?

For morning longer trianing back innaday, I settled into having an ensure beforehand. Solids didn't sit well for me. But I needed something.

 
El Floppo said:
Good stuff.

Been years since my one and only IM and a bunch of 1/2s, so ymmv...but I always raced as I trained, especially for nutrition. Other than water and Gatorade, I took all my own food, including a plan a, b and c. Never relied on the race course for this stuff. The IM I did, I developed an absolute disgust of my IM cocktail I'd been using for a couple years in halves. Couldn't touch it after the first bike loop (lake placid) and ended up on plan c (turkey sandwich).

Harris...I assume you've been doing 1/2s and have been training for this IM prior to this?

ETA... I had my bike set up for fuel- gels taped to the head tube for easy pulling/opening, bento box with bars and salt pills, IM cocktail (accelerate mixed with something I'm forgetting) in on bike bottles, water in the aerobar sippy cup.
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Plenty of people do this - it's not wrong.  It's just not my preference.  I'd much rather not have to carry my own nutrition, not have to deal with a backup plan, logistics, plus weight on a bike.  I'd just rather live off the course and grab at each aid station.  What tends to work for me at an aid station:

Start the bike with one bottle of water in my aerobars, and one gel.  As you approach the 15 mile-ish aid station on the bike, consume the gel.  At the front of the aid station will be water and Powerade/Gatorade.  Grab a water and put in bottle cages.  The middle of the aid station will be food items - gels, bananas, bars.  Grab a couple of these and toss in bento box.  The end of the aid station will be more water/Gatorade, grab a Gatorade and put in bottle cages.  I'm then stocked to aid station 2.

At the beginning of aid station 2 use the spare water to fill up the aerobar bottle, toss the empty at the front of the aid station.  Replace with a new water.  Rinse and repeat at every aid station, with food as I want it and Gatorade as I run out.  Easy peasy and doesn't require custom mixes, specific brands, etc.  Just whatever they have.

 
El Floppo said:
Sorry...I missed the rest of this discussion- but have you talked about how you've trained (w/w/out) nutrition and what your issues are?

The article pbm mentioned- at least in my more serious days 15 years ago, the thinking was that you didn't want the body feeding off of itself/carbs, and that self cannibalizing starts happening around 90 minutes into exertion. So the thinking then was to start fueling... depending on how long the race was...anywhere from 45 minutes into it, and figure out a calorie number per hour that works for your body.

Obviously for Ultras or longer Tris (1/2 and up) that's a hugely important thing. I only did one standalone marathon, and iirc, I ate a gel or two...but again, trained with them on longer runs.
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I'm still kinda new to endurance running, so the best way to describe my nutrition plan is...in development. Increased running was the vehicle out of my fat stage 12 years ago, but it was still just a compliment to strength training and rec sports. I didn't really become a runner until 2016. I wasn't sure how I'd fail with my first attempt in 2016, but unlike most in here I was highly confident that I would. My goal for that cycle was to try and figure out where I screwed up then patch those holes the next time around.

I think I figured out most of my problems, but unfortunately I don't think I was successful with fueling. The changes I implemented (bigger breakfast + more liberal with chews + mid-run fruit) led to success on long training runs, but since long training runs are shorter than the real thing forecasting how it would translate had some leap of faith factored in. That leap of faith fell short. I felt the bonk coming on about when I usually finished a training run (19-20 miles) and progressed to full blown survivor mode within the next couple miles. I think my solution this time around (slow-acting carbs earlier in the race) is a good idea, but also think I'll benefit utilizing this fasted method too.

I am confident in my ability to get to mile 20-22 on track. I think my greatest hurdle is putting myself in position to have the energy to sustain the final 4-6 miles. I've had difficulty articulating to others here that I am much less confident in my chances of success at this distance than they are, but it looks like I finally figured out how to put words to it.  :lol:  I'm a very strong runner in shorter races, but I'm still a work-in-process at distance.

 
El Floppo said:
Ah...sorry again, I missed the part about pre-race/workout nutrition.

I assume you've experimented with different options before long workouts?

For morning longer trianing back innaday, I settled into having an ensure beforehand. Solids didn't sit well for me. But I needed something.
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I think I put a greater emphasis on sleep than others, which is one reason why I have never gotten into a morning running routine. I often am not done with whatever I have to do that day until sometime after 9, so if I want to do an hour 20-30 the next day I need to be out in the 4's. The math doesn't work. Winter weekend's are more about safety than anything - kids stuff begins around 9 give or take, I don't feel comfortable running on streets in the dark, our sidewalks are usually not conducive to long running from Nov-March, and I don't do treadmills. So, math again doesn't work. 

Unintended consequence of all of that, I rely on same day fueling to get me through longer runs. I now realize the spot I've put myself in, but the solution to all of that is to train for an Oct/Nov marathon - those Dec-Feb problems listed above don't exist in my world from June-Aug. But it's a little late for that now.

 
Just finished up another 40 mile week.  That's now 12 weeks in a row with 30+ miles (and really 11 weeks in a row with 35+ miles).  Dating back to the beginning of December and aided by a pretty good winter, pretty happy with that given the time of year.  As most of it has been easy running, I can't say it's been too hard getting out as I've just made it my new normal.  I'm currently at 313 miles for the year and still on pace for over 2,100 for the year.

Throughout this, I haven't had any real plan and mostly just sticking with some general principles that I've learned here from you guys.  It's mostly been about quantity and getting miles in for preparation of starting marathon training next month.  I think that part has been highly successful.  I've gotten in one double digit mile run every week.  I've done a couple runs longer than my HM distance coming up.  I've tried to bring my minimum distance on most runs up to the 5-6 mile mark and get more intermediate runs of 7-8 miles in (70-80 minute runs).  I've worked on picking up the pace toward the end of runs to where it's not that difficult to do so.  I've sought out some hilly routes to build up some leg strength.  My HR going up hills has definitely improved and I learned from @gruecd during the race to work on pushing up the hills more.  And, I've sprinkled in a handful of faster runs to practice my HM pace for an extended period of time and then tried to stack runs like that with a long run right after to get used to running long on tired legs.  Little bit of extra rest after my biggest volume or the weeks where I did some pace to stay pretty fresh throughout all of this.  Each day, I just kind of looked at what I had done the previous two days and how I felt and would just decide at that point what I was going to run.  Looking back at these last 3 months, I'm really happy with how it all came together and I think it's gotten me to a good spot to start without feeling burned out at all.  The biggest thing is that I've kept this quantity up and feel good about starting to add some speed workouts to push some limits. 

I feel like this is a good reflection spot with my HM coming up in less than 2 weeks and ready to start quality shortly after that.  I can now realize the importance of "training for the training" and getting this base in.  If I would have had to ramp up my mileage AND do any kind of speed training, I don't think it would have gone well.  Similarly, if I just did quantity for the marathon, I think I'd have felt that I was lacking working in any quality heading into the race in July as well.  Seeing the small differences in my HR and pace over just 3 months has provided all the encouragement I needed to stick with it.  Most importantly, I feel good and healthy.

As for the HM coming up, I know I'm going to be running it slower than I can probably fully race it to work on the pacing and to run with my wife.  That said, there's a large HM coming up at the end of March that I'm strongly considering running to try and PR and push myself depending on how this one goes.  Just a contingency if needed.  Per the schedule, my marathon training starts a few days before that race so it's pretty ideal.  I'll use the 3 weeks in between HMs to recover a little, get some last base volume in and then get started.  It'll also keep me from wanting to take any time off in between and lose any kind of ground.  Hopefully I'll also try and get an 18-20 mile run in during that time so that I have that info for later. 

Anyway, sorry for the long post, this is more to kind of document for me and look back afterward and see where I went wrong or what could have been done better.  While I'm still "scared" of the marathon coming up and know it's definitely not going to be easy, I feel like I'm at least putting myself in a good position to try and succeed in it.  Whereas I've felt like I was in good shape leading up to races before (my first HM in late 2018 and the relay race last year), I think I'm a much stronger runner by a good amount than I was at either of those times.  These longer distances aren't anywhere near as difficult for me now as they used to be.  I know you guys kept telling me this over and over and I knew it would likely be the case once I consistently got up to 35-40mpw, but it's nice to see it actually make a difference so far.

 
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gianmarco said:
Throughout this, I haven't had any real plan and mostly just sticking with some general principles that I've learned here from you guys.  It's mostly been about quantity and getting miles in for preparation of starting marathon training next month.  I think that part has been highly successful.  I've gotten in one double digit mile run every week.  I've done a couple runs longer than my HM distance coming up.  I've tried to bring my minimum distance on most runs up to the 5-6 mile mark and get more intermediate runs of 7-8 miles in (70-80 minute runs).  I've worked on picking up the pace toward the end of runs to where it's not that difficult to do so.  I've sought out some hilly routes to build up some leg strength.  My HR going up hills has definitely improved and I learned from @gruecd during the race to work on pushing up the hills more.  And, I've sprinkled in a handful of faster runs to practice my HM pace for an extended period of time and then tried to stack runs like that with a long run right after to get used to running long on tired legs.  Little bit of extra rest after my biggest volume or the weeks where I did some pace to stay pretty fresh throughout all of this.  Each day, I just kind of looked at what I had done the previous two days and how I felt and would just decide at that point what I was going to run.  Looking back at these last 3 months, I'm really happy with how it all came together and I think it's gotten me to a good spot to start without feeling burned out at all.  The biggest thing is that I've kept this quantity up and feel good about starting to add some speed workouts to push some limits. 
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Totally agree.  You have come far, gianmarco-san.

 
El Floppo said:
ETA... I had my bike set up for fuel- gels taped to the head tube for easy pulling/opening, bento box with bars and salt pills, IM cocktail (accelerade mixed with something I'm forgetting) in on bike bottles, water in the aerobar sippy cup.
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Corrected the spelling, but I'm a big fan of Accelerade for distance events.  Even though it's somewhat clunky/heavy to carry a couple of containers of this on my fuel belt, I feel it's worth it for marathoning (or in bottles on the bike).  

@Harris

 
gianmarco said:
That said, there's a large HM coming up at the end of March that I'm strongly considering running to try and PR and push myself depending on how this one goes.  Just a contingency if needed.  Per the schedule, my marathon training starts a few days before that race so it's pretty ideal.
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Your consistency has been great and you're on your way to having a tremendous year. One thing you might want to consider is to schedule a few week recovery period. With your marathon at the end of July that is a long time to be On, considering you set a mileage PR in December and seem to be charging ahead. If you race that 2nd half in March perhaps take 2-3 weeks to recover before starting your marathon cycle. I don't think it would hurt you to make that 18 week marathon plan a 15 week one.

 
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pbm107 said:
Your consistency has been great and you're on your way to having a tremendous year. One thing you might want to consider is to schedule a few week recovery period. With your marathon at the end of July that is a long time to be On, considering you set a mileage PR in December and seem to be charging ahead. If you race that 2nd half in March perhaps take 2-3 weeks to recover before starting your marathon cycle. I don't think it would hurt you to make that 18 week marathon plan a 15 week one.
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Thanks, I didn't really consider that.

I initially was going to use that 2-3 week period after the first HM for that.  But, that wouldn't really be conducive to trying to then PR late in the month.  I don't have to race that 2nd HM as the only benefit of it is to try and PR and see where this recent volume has taken me. 

Would I be better off just not bothering with the 2nd half and do the full 18 weeks or go ahead and race it and cut down to a 15 week plan?

This is what I'm doing and I'll be adding 5 mile slow/easy runs on the cross-train days to get the mileage into the 35-45 range.

 
gianmarco said:
Thanks, I didn't really consider that.

I initially was going to use that 2-3 week period after the first HM for that.  But, that wouldn't really be conducive to trying to then PR late in the month.  I don't have to race that 2nd HM as the only benefit of it is to try and PR and see where this recent volume has taken me. 

Would I be better off just not bothering with the 2nd half and do the full 18 weeks or go ahead and race it and cut down to a 15 week plan?

This is what I'm doing and I'll be adding 5 mile slow/easy runs on the cross-train days to get the mileage into the 35-45 range.
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I think to put yourself in a position to PR late March you can't deload between half's. Given the base you have established I think you can get away with a deload after the half PR then start your marathon plan late. The first week or two will likely be more challenging, but I think you'll get your fitness back pretty quick and hit a groove by early May.

 
pbm107 said:
I would race the 2nd half in March, you deserve to see the benefit of all the work that you have put in and March is great time of year to be racing. I'd start with week 15 of your marathon training plan.
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:goodposting:

I'm clearly no expert and defer all technical advise to the rest of the crew...but, @gianmarco you do deserve to race that 2nd HM.  You've put in all this effort, and you should have fun and really push yourself.  You don't want this whole year to only focus only on the July marathon.  Who knows what might happen between now and then, if you had to miss it or were injured, the whole year would feel like a failure.  Go have fun and race the hell out of that thing.

 
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Sevilla Marathon on Feb 23. After a night of wandering around town looking for decent Italian because we were dopes and didn't even consider making a reservation, finally found a hole in the wall pizza joint to split a small pie and then a bit of pasta later on after telling the hostess that we would eat super quickly to make room for the reservations. Was a bit worried that the late Spanish dinner hour (finished eating closer to 10pm) would mess with the morning routine on the throne but all ended up being okay. 

8:30am race start meant plenty of time for sleep and oatmeal/banana to digest and from the AirBnB just a short 1.5km walk to the start area to drop off the warm up bag. Sevilla Marathon is an IAAF Gold Race and while I don't know what that means exactly, everything was super well organized. Easy in and out of the bag drop, then a great area for warmups/stretching between the bag drop and corrals, which for the first time ever in history did not seem to be overcrowded and made for a much less hectic and stressful environment. Amazing weather overall with closer to 50 degrees at the start, worked its way up to the 60s and pure sunshine during the race. Not much direct sun in the eyes though, and plenty of shade, due to the course layout.

I started in the back of the 3:15-3:30 corral, not knowing exactly how it would play out. After an initial 4:56/km, a couple at 4:42/km, three at just over 4:30/km, was feeling really good and reeled off the rest of the race between 4:20-4:25km (~7:05/mile) all the way to the end. Was feeling super strong and gained a ton of confidence after passing the 3:15 pace group around the 16km mark. One thing I noticed that I've never actually noticed in 13 previous marathons is that the course was actually marked every 50m with a yellow line to indicate where they measured the distance. Really useful for understanding how they measure the turns and and winding roads. The last 5-8km is a nice clip through the city with tons of people cheering you on. Saw my wife at 40km just when I needed that extra boost to finish in 3:09:00! 

Overall would highly recommend for anyone looking for an international race. Sevilla is a great little city guaranteed to have amazing weather and can easily combine with the rest of southern Spain or Portugal. And rest assured plenty of cervezas and tapas were had following this one!! 

 
Harris said:
Saw my wife at 40km just when I needed that extra boost to finish in 3:09:00! 
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Sweet!  My wife and I made it to Barcelona and some of the surrounding area a couple of years ago, but I'd really love to catch Portugal and southern Spain, including Sevilla.

Pre--post for somewhere around 2022/2023: "Congrats on going sub-3:00 in the race today!"

 
Harris said:
Sevilla Marathon on Feb 23. After a night of wandering around town looking for decent Italian because we were dopes and didn't even consider making a reservation, finally found a hole in the wall pizza joint to split a small pie and then a bit of pasta later on after telling the hostess that we would eat super quickly to make room for the reservations. Was a bit worried that the late Spanish dinner hour (finished eating closer to 10pm) would mess with the morning routine on the throne but all ended up being okay. 

8:30am race start meant plenty of time for sleep and oatmeal/banana to digest and from the AirBnB just a short 1.5km walk to the start area to drop off the warm up bag. Sevilla Marathon is an IAAF Gold Race and while I don't know what that means exactly, everything was super well organized. Easy in and out of the bag drop, then a great area for warmups/stretching between the bag drop and corrals, which for the first time ever in history did not seem to be overcrowded and made for a much less hectic and stressful environment. Amazing weather overall with closer to 50 degrees at the start, worked its way up to the 60s and pure sunshine during the race. Not much direct sun in the eyes though, and plenty of shade, due to the course layout.

I started in the back of the 3:15-3:30 corral, not knowing exactly how it would play out. After an initial 4:56/km, a couple at 4:42/km, three at just over 4:30/km, was feeling really good and reeled off the rest of the race between 4:20-4:25km (~7:05/mile) all the way to the end. Was feeling super strong and gained a ton of confidence after passing the 3:15 pace group around the 16km mark. One thing I noticed that I've never actually noticed in 13 previous marathons is that the course was actually marked every 50m with a yellow line to indicate where they measured the distance. Really useful for understanding how they measure the turns and and winding roads. The last 5-8km is a nice clip through the city with tons of people cheering you on. Saw my wife at 40km just when I needed that extra boost to finish in 3:09:00! 

Overall would highly recommend for anyone looking for an international race. Sevilla is a great little city guaranteed to have amazing weather and can easily combine with the rest of southern Spain or Portugal. And rest assured plenty of cervezas and tapas were had following this one!! 
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Wait. Did this guy just drop in here and casually say he ran a 3:09 marathon? WTF? I can’t stand this guy already.

 
ThreeThousand said:
Plenty of people do this - it's not wrong.  It's just not my preference.  I'd much rather not have to carry my own nutrition, not have to deal with a backup plan, logistics, plus weight on a bike.  I'd just rather live off the course and grab at each aid station.  What tends to work for me at an aid station:

Start the bike with one bottle of water in my aerobars, and one gel.  As you approach the 15 mile-ish aid station on the bike, consume the gel.  At the front of the aid station will be water and Powerade/Gatorade.  Grab a water and put in bottle cages.  The middle of the aid station will be food items - gels, bananas, bars.  Grab a couple of these and toss in bento box.  The end of the aid station will be more water/Gatorade, grab a Gatorade and put in bottle cages.  I'm then stocked to aid station 2.

At the beginning of aid station 2 use the spare water to fill up the aerobar bottle, toss the empty at the front of the aid station.  Replace with a new water.  Rinse and repeat at every aid station, with food as I want it and Gatorade as I run out.  Easy peasy and doesn't require custom mixes, specific brands, etc.  Just whatever they have.
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Yeah...obviously a different approach. As much time as I (and anybody who does an IM) spent training, no way was I taking a chance with nutrition. So for me, custom mixes of whatever were the easy part. 

 
gianmarco said:
Was a joke.  You specifically mentioned me in that so not sure if you're trying to imply I'm shooting for anything close to that because I'm not.  I'm just looking to try and break 23:00 for a PR. 

A big determination with that is if there will be a place for me to lie down when I cross the finish line.
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I was making a friendly offer/joke for us to "virtually race". I did 21:19 last May in a flat, fast road 5k. This is a grassy course and in not sure where I am at exactly right now so we will see what the target is Saturday. IIRC, when I ran this course last December, it had significant mole issues and getting off the course healthy is priority 1.

You've got sub 23, I'm sure of it! Go crush it! 

 
December of 2018 I had a nasty head cold/ sinus infection when I ran this course in 28:05. Looking forward to see what I can do this time around. 

 
The Iguana said:
I was making a friendly offer/joke for us to "virtually race". I did 21:19 last May in a flat, fast road 5k. This is a grassy course and in not sure where I am at exactly right now so we will see what the target is Saturday. IIRC, when I ran this course last December, it had significant mole issues and getting off the course healthy is priority 1.

You've got sub 23, I'm sure of it! Go crush it! 
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You're gonna race a 5K on snowy and icy grass with a bad hamstring? If you re-injure yourself I may audible my plan for Sunday, drive down to Indy, smack you in the back of the head, then turn around and drive back to Cleveland.

 
MAC_32 said:
You're gonna race a 5K on snowy and icy grass with a bad hamstring? If you re-injure yourself I may audible my plan for Sunday, drive down to Indy, smack you in the back of the head, then turn around and drive back to Cleveland.
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:lol:  

Thanks! There will be no snow or ice and I can't really go out as hard as I would like. The hamstring is feeling good but I can't do anything stupid to mess with my trail race in a couple of weeks. I'll be smart, I promise!

It's going to be 40s and 50s as the high all week - weekend shows a little dip but will be 30-ish at race time on Saturday. 

 
Original plan for Saturday was to try to push my friend's son to go for sub 20. I'll probably still try to push him to try it but I acknowledge that me thinking of doing so is kind of dumb. I'll save that for a few months from now. I still plan to run it decently hard, just not sure how hard yet. We'll see how I feel as I run and go to a couple more PT sessions this week. I'll talk with the PT too and heed any advice he offers. 

 
The Iguana said:
:lol:  

Thanks! There will be no snow or ice and I can't really go out as hard as I would like. The hamstring is feeling good but I can't do anything stupid to mess with my trail race in a couple of weeks. I'll be smart, I promise!

It's going to be 40s and 50s as the high all week - weekend shows a little dip but will be 30-ish at race time on Saturday. 
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Different picture being painted here

^^^If that's right then it probably won't get warm enough for the Wednesday snow to melt and with temps between 18 and 22 over night at least some of it will re-freeze over night.

 
MAC_32 said:
Different picture being painted here

^^^If that's right then it probably won't get warm enough for the Wednesday snow to melt and with temps between 18 and 22 over night at least some of it will re-freeze over night.
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Wow. That's crazy compared to this. I'll definitely adjust any and all plans based on conditions. My main concern right now is making sure I'm healthy for this, which is 2 weeks from Saturday. 

ETA - Oops... I just realized that stupid weather.com defaulted to Washington DC for some reason. Just checked the local reports and they are closer to yours...

 
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For the record, that trail race I'm doing is starting to look like it could be interesting... There is rain in the forecast for that area almost every day as far out as it goes so far. Could be quite the mud fest!

 
The Iguana said:
I was making a friendly offer/joke for us to "virtually race". I did 21:19 last May in a flat, fast road 5k. This is a grassy course and in not sure where I am at exactly right now so we will see what the target is Saturday. IIRC, when I ran this course last December, it had significant mole issues and getting off the course healthy is priority 1.

You've got sub 23, I'm sure of it! Go crush it! 
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Yeah, I know. 

And.....no.

 
MAC_32 said:
I'm still kinda new to endurance running, so the best way to describe my nutrition plan is...in development. Increased running was the vehicle out of my fat stage 12 years ago, but it was still just a compliment to strength training and rec sports. I didn't really become a runner until 2016. I wasn't sure how I'd fail with my first attempt in 2016, but unlike most in here I was highly confident that I would. My goal for that cycle was to try and figure out where I screwed up then patch those holes the next time around.

I think I figured out most of my problems, but unfortunately I don't think I was successful with fueling. The changes I implemented (bigger breakfast + more liberal with chews + mid-run fruit) led to success on long training runs, but since long training runs are shorter than the real thing forecasting how it would translate had some leap of faith factored in. That leap of faith fell short. I felt the bonk coming on about when I usually finished a training run (19-20 miles) and progressed to full blown survivor mode within the next couple miles. I think my solution this time around (slow-acting carbs earlier in the race) is a good idea, but also think I'll benefit utilizing this fasted method too.

I am confident in my ability to get to mile 20-22 on track. I think my greatest hurdle is putting myself in position to have the energy to sustain the final 4-6 miles. I've had difficulty articulating to others here that I am much less confident in my chances of success at this distance than they are, but it looks like I finally figured out how to put words to it.  :lol:  I'm a very strong runner in shorter races, but I'm still a work-in-process at distance.
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If it makes you feel any better, I've run 20ish marathons and I'm still figuring out my nutrition.  My last race (Indy) was the first time I felt like I did a good job with it. 

I like that you are actively trying to fix what went wrong in your first two marathons.  Can't wait to see how it turns out.

 
FYI -- I haven't run in several days.  I'm in Colorado for a week long skiing trip with a bunch of buddies.  I brought running stuff but right now, I've been skiing pretty hard. 

I may get out there late in the week just to see what its like to run at 9,000 feet of elevation (that's the base). 

 
As I anticipated, I've basically been winging the training schedule for this 1/2- ramping up one long run as part of 3ish runs per week with tempo one day and recovery/neg-split the other.

The race is March 15 (beware!) and I'm uncertain how much to do next weekend for the long run (2 weeks before the race) and when to start tapering.

Tia, running nerds.

 
The Iguana said:
For the record, that trail race I'm doing is starting to look like it could be interesting... There is rain in the forecast for that area almost every day as far out as it goes so far. Could be quite the mud fest!
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Yep. Similar. Thankfully (sort of) only our last 5-6 miles are on dirt. https://www.strava.com/routes/7283163

Which raises a conundrum. In previous years I've worn road shoes and the trail has been difficult when wet. Considering wearing trail shoes but those aren't ideal on roads. :oldunsure:

 
-OZ- said:
Yep. Similar. Thankfully (sort of) only our last 5-6 miles are on dirt. https://www.strava.com/routes/7283163

Which raises a conundrum. In previous years I've worn road shoes and the trail has been difficult when wet. Considering wearing trail shoes but those aren't ideal on roads. :oldunsure:
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There's about 2 miles on roads at the beginning and then again at the end of mine. I'm definitely wearing trail shoes for the middle 10ish but that's a pretty easy decision. 

 
tri-man 47 said:
Channeling my inner-Lloyd Bentsen:  I met @Harris.  I knew @Harris.  FBG @Harris is an acquaintance of mine.  And @Zasada, you're no @Harris.   :rolleyes:
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Lol thanks @tri-man 47. I posted a couple of pages back, used to post here on and off, mostly off and definitely not at all over the past few years as life got quite hectic. Since moving to France a little over a year ago from Chicago I've finally settled down and picking back up with a few things, including checking in on the FFA. Hopefully can dish out some decent advice and add a little international flair to the FFA Ran a 10K circuit! 

I'm definitely no @tri-man 47 with his perpetual BQs and from the looks of it running ultra and hundreds of miles per month I've got nothing on @Zasada either!

 
Harris said:
Lol thanks @tri-man 47. I posted a couple of pages back, used to post here on and off, mostly off and definitely not at all over the past few years as life got quite hectic. Since moving to France a little over a year ago from Chicago I've finally settled down and picking back up with a few things, including checking in on the FFA. Hopefully can dish out some decent advice and add a little international flair to the FFA Ran a 10K circuit! 

I'm definitely no @tri-man 47 with his perpetual BQs and from the looks of it running ultra and hundreds of miles per month I've got nothing on @Zasada either!
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Strava?

 
ThreeThousand said:
1 - Bike, bike, and more bike.  This is a swim warmup and run cooldown to a bike race. 

2 - Practice running on tired legs.  Your base long workouts should be a 80 to 100 mile bike with a 4-6 mile run afterwards.  The next day should be a 20-30 mile bike warmup and a long run, ramping up to 16-18 miles.  I don't think I ran over 18 on any training cycle I've done and felt very successful.

3 - Practice your nutrition - Know what they'll have on course and make sure you are comfortable with using that.  I wouldn't bring my own nutrition on a IM course as it's like a buffet.  They'll have anything and everything you could want but make sure your stomach is good with their brand of offerings.  I'm not sure what's on course this year but the IM website will know. 

4 - Nice has a reputation for heat, make sure you get heat acclimated.

Any specific race related questions that I can help with I'm happy to. 
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This is actually a good way to think about it that I haven't considered.... bike race with swim warm up and run cool down. Makes sense as the bike is the longest bit. I'm taking on a Matt Fitzgerald plan that does include plenty of bricks so hopefully that will give me enough experience of running on tired legs. 

And nutrition yes, I have a 70.3 in mid-May where I'll try to dial-in most of my nutrition planning. The last and only other 70.3 I've done I bonked hard on the run as I barely ate anything during the bike. I also think I need to just keep putting in the swimming time in the pool so that the swim does actually feel like a warm-up vs. coming out of the water absolutely exhausted. 

Do you do most of your bike training on the tri-bike or road bike or a good mix of both?

 
El Floppo said:
Good stuff.

Been years since my one and only IM and a bunch of 1/2s, so ymmv...but I always raced as I trained, especially for nutrition. Other than water and Gatorade, I took all my own food, including a plan a, b and c. Never relied on the race course for this stuff. The IM I did, I developed an absolute disgust of my IM cocktail I'd been using for a couple years in halves. Couldn't touch it after the first bike loop (lake placid) and ended up on plan c (turkey sandwich).

Harris...I assume you've been doing 1/2s and have been training for this IM prior to this?

ETA... I had my bike set up for fuel- gels taped to the head tube for easy pulling/opening, bento box with bars and salt pills, IM cocktail (accelerate mixed with something I'm forgetting) in on bike bottles, water in the aerobar sippy cup.
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I'm definitely in run shape and will be building up quite a bit of ultra distance cycling shape as I'm doing the Transcontinental Race at the end of July.  But that doesn't always lead to speed so I'll be putting in a bunch of time on what I call the Paris Urban Velodrome. Just west of the city in a huge park here there is a spot called Longchamps with a 3.5km loop that is closed to cars. Tons of cyclists in little pelotons and a good spot for speedwork. I was on a cycling team in Chicago for 10 years prior to moving here but mostly racing cyclocross with the occasional tri thrown in there. 

I have a couple of other running races in late March/early April and for tris I am doing a sprint on May 10th and a 70.3 May 17th. Hopefully these will iron out any wrinkles in my race day planning. Did not use a bento box in my other 70.3 but will for sure this one and I've invested in a torpedo thing for the aerobars. I think I'll trade out the turkey sandwich for a bento box full of PB&Js 🥪

 
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