Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Ran a 10k - Official Thread (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
No, this is the first year I've tracked mileage completely. I have Garmin data since the fall of 2012 but I never tracked treadmill mileage until this year. I know 2012 was an increase over earlier years and this year is my most ever. No doubt that plays a significant role in my improvement.
pbm107
Footballguy
That is a shame but you are probably better off not having the obsession with running data that I have and what I assume Ned has.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
**** Collins Firetrails 50 Miler
I’ve had a hard time this summer and fall trying to decide what to do next, what to commit to. My initial plan earlier in the summer was to run a 100M up in Oregon in late September, but the date didn’t work out. My running has been as consistent as it’s ever been including six 20 milers and a 50K, and several weeks with 5K-10K of climbing continuing even without a race on the calendar. What has been sub-par without that focus race has been my diet and nutrition, so I knew I wasn’t in peak shape. But I still wanted to get in one big effort before the year was up, or I kind of felt like I would be “wasting” the endurance I’ve been building all summer. So on the last day of registration and six days before the race I finally pulled the trigger and registered for the Firetrails 50M.
Firetrails was my second 50 miler back in 2013 so I knew it had five good climbs but nothing too steep, and being in the East Bay in early October that heat would be a factor. It’s an out and back with the biggest climb coming back out of the turnaround – a 4 mile, 1,250’ slog up mostly exposed fireroad in the heat of the day. Heat, climbing, exposure, dust – sounds awesome, right? But that was all exactly what I was looking for. With my ultimate focus being Western States, opportunities to continue to experiment and gain experience with heat management, long climbs, nutrition, aid station management, etc., were really what pushed me to sign up. My time in 2013 was 10:55 so I set a stretch goal of 10:00 (that I knew was unlikely with my lack of focus this summer), a backup goal of PRing the course, and as always with an ultra, the ultimate goal of just finishing still upright. I put together my pace chart with the 9:59 and 10:55 Aid Station splits, assembled drop bags for the turnaround and the finish, and was ready to run.
Race morning I drove the hour out to Lake Chabot Marina while sipping on a coffee and a slurry of UCAN Superstarch and chia seeds, picked up my bib, took care of pre-race bathroom business, and waited for the 6:30 AM start. It was still a little dark as we gathered near the start, but the first couple of miles are on bike path so I didn’t bother with a light and just settled into an easy pace. Things felt pretty easy as we hit the first 500’ climb, and I chatted with a few other runners as the sun came up. It was really muggy, actually foggy and in the mid-60s, so from the start I worked on keeping up on hydration. I was wearing my Ultimate Direction AK Race Vest with one bottle of sports drink (Tailwind to start, refilling with GU Brew on the course) and the other with water that I could use to help keep cool. My nutrition plan was to aim for about 200-250 calories an hour, and to keep it limited to sports nutrition products for as long as I could to see if that helped prevent the late race stomach issues I’ve had in the past. This race has an ample 13 aid stations so I figured on one gel at each one, take 2-3 more during the few spots on the course where it would take more than an hour to get from one aid to the next, and to just keep drinking sports drink out of the one bottle throughout the day.
Things really went according to plan for the first half. I was moving comfortably at a pace right between the two splits on my pace chart, so I knew that the sub-10 goal wasn’t going to happen. But that didn’t really bother me as I stayed focused on trying to manage effort, heat, hydration and nutrition, and move efficiently up the trail. As we made the climb up to the high point of the course in miles 19-22, the leaders in the marathon that started at our turnaround started streaming by. It’s always inspiring to see those guys and gals at the front of the pack fly up and down the trails. Up and over the top and down the fireroad to the turnaround with a steady stream of encouragement from runners headed both ways, now passing the leaders of the 50M coming back up the hill, running something that most of us would be power hiking. I’ll never know the fitness it takes to do that.
I got to the turnaround at Loan Oak at about mile 26 at just under 5:23, a few minutes ahead of my pace from 2013 and feeling good, with my IT bands and quads holding up great down that 1,250’ downhill. The Aid Station here is a fun Western-theme with a ton of great energy. Even though it can be hard to appreciate the themes when I’m trying to get in and out quickly, this race has great aid stations and volunteers throughout. I am always sure to thank everyone, as they put in a ton of time and effort to support the runners. I haven’t yet done this, but I will be volunteering at a couple of races next year to experience that side of things and give back to this sport that I love so much. I didn’t have crew for this race, but a volunteer brought me my drop bag and I got to work cleaning and re-lubing my feet with Run Goo prior to changing socks. Pouring water on myself had me dealing with wet feet all day, but the Run Goo did a good job of keeping my feet in decent shape. I refilled the bottles, put ice in my bandana, in my hat, and in my rolled-down arm sleeves, downed a gel, and began the long climb back up to Steam Trains Aid Station.
I passed probably a dozen runners as I just kept grinding it out for an hour, all while trying to stay cool as the temps were in the 80s by this point. I got to the Steam Trains Aid Station just shy of the 50K mark in about 6:32, still ahead of my 2013 splits. I loaded up on more ice, popped another gel, filled the bottles, and down the trail I went still feeling good. About three miles later I hit one of the steeper climbs of the course, not brutal but a good 450’ in about a mile, and for the first time all day I started to struggle. I was barely managing a power hike, but my breathing was really hard. I poured water on my head, water on my arm bands, took in some GU Brew, but it kept getting worse. I bent over and put my hands on my knees, and all the people I had passed on the big climb out of Loan Oak came streaming by, with every single one of them asking if I was ok or needed anything (did I mention I love this sport?). “Yeah, I’m good, just struggling, thanks”. By the time I reached the top I was lightheaded, and was even experiencing almost a tunnel vision where things in the periphery were a little fuzzy. I popped an S-Cap thinking it might be electrolyte related, kept pouring water on myself, and kept sipping calories. But even going downhill I was struggling now, with an almost 16-minute mile split there. My head started to come back a little as I focused on just making it to the 37-mile aid station at Skyline Gate, where I would either regroup and figure this thing out or I would be looking at my first DNF. To make matters worse I caught my toe and went down, tumbling through the dirt. I got up and checked to see if I had any injuries and not seeing any blood kept moving. I finally stumbled into Skyline Aid Station almost exactly on my 2013 split of about 8:21.
I cooled myself with the ice/sponge bucket, wiping down my face. I grabbed some Coke and another S-cap, and just sat down for a bit trying to regain composure. I knew a course PR was now out the window, but after about 10-15 minutes of just sitting there and getting some sugar and salt back in me, my head felt pretty clear so I decided to continue. I figured if the light-headedness came back, I could either turn around or just drop at the next aid station 4 ½ mostly downhill miles away. So I got back on the trail and headed down the hill.
After my 100 miler last year my buddy Jim put together a race video that captured well the experience and the struggle I had out there. The song he picked for the second half of the video, covering mile 50 to the finish, was Surrender by Angels and Airwaves. I had never heard it before, but it’s obviously become one of great meaning to me (just watch from about the 4:50 mark). Sure enough, 30 seconds after I left the aid station my iPod shuffles a five hour playlist and lands on that song. “No I, I will not surrender.” You can’t make this stuff up, and I instantly teared up - followed by laughing out loud and smiling for the first time in a couple of hours. I knew then that it was going to be a slow time, but I was finishing this thing.
The rest of the race was really pretty uneventful, it was just a matter of moving forward for another three or so hours and getting it done. I was moving slowly but I was moving, and I was able to keep hydrating, eating, and slowly hiking the ups and running the flats and downs. The last couple of miles of rolling bike path on pavement kind of suck, and as I was for probably a good third of the race I was completely by myself for most of this stretch. I actually passed two runners for the first time in hours in the final mile, and tried to run it in strong and crossed the finish in 11:38:45.
I laid down after I crossed the finish and gathered myself for a few minutes. I got up and took off my shoes (just one small blister), cleaned my feet, changed out of my wet shirt, and kept sipping water and walking around. My stomach wasn’t ready to partake in a burger or beer yet, so I had some broth that seemed to go down fine. I gathered my stuff and started to walk toward the car, and all of a sudden the light headed feeling came back and I immediately laid down on the ground. A volunteer came over to check on me and then brought over a medical volunteer who talked to me for a bit. I sat up and out of nowhere I started puking, first the soup I had just put down but then completely emptying my stomach. Medical brought me some Sprite and a couple of S-caps, and stayed with me for a good twenty minutes to make sure I was ok. After another ten minutes or so I felt good enough to stand up, and slowly walked the 15 minutes back to my car for the drive home.
So while the race didn’t go as planned, I had seven great hours out there before having to gut out the rest. My best guess on the problems I had are around electrolytes – I was cramping pretty severely all over when I got home, and I kept taking S-caps for a few hours (along with some pickle juice) until that finally stopped. I didn’t really take any early in the race, relying upon the GU Brew to get what I thought would be enough. As a salty sweater, the research by Tim Noakes would seem to indicate that I have plenty of electrolytes on board and don’t need to supplement, but I just don’t think that works for me on a warm day, and next time I’ll be doing one per hour from the start and up that to two in the heat of the day. I also think that as my diet hasn’t been on point the past few months with too many carbs, my fat burning isn't where it should be. This leads to the 200 calories or so I was taking in being a little low, so blood sugar may have been a factor as well – especially considering Coke (during) and Sprite (after) both seemed to help. I think getting back into a more metabolically efficient state and ramping my fat burning back up where it was last summer will make the biggest impact there, as when I try to go above 250 calories per hour during the heat I tend to have stomach issues.
My IT bands, achilles, and everything else that have given me problems at times in the past all held up great for the second straight race, so that's really encouraging. My quads were pretty trashed for a few days and I was walking around all herky-jerky like a drunken zombie, but now five days later they're almost back to normal and I'm going to head out today and test things out with a little hike/jog. All in all, the race gave me some more experience in the bank that will only help when that day finally comes that I get the opportunity to run 100 miles from Squaw to Auburn.
I’ve had a hard time this summer and fall trying to decide what to do next, what to commit to. My initial plan earlier in the summer was to run a 100M up in Oregon in late September, but the date didn’t work out. My running has been as consistent as it’s ever been including six 20 milers and a 50K, and several weeks with 5K-10K of climbing continuing even without a race on the calendar. What has been sub-par without that focus race has been my diet and nutrition, so I knew I wasn’t in peak shape. But I still wanted to get in one big effort before the year was up, or I kind of felt like I would be “wasting” the endurance I’ve been building all summer. So on the last day of registration and six days before the race I finally pulled the trigger and registered for the Firetrails 50M.
Firetrails was my second 50 miler back in 2013 so I knew it had five good climbs but nothing too steep, and being in the East Bay in early October that heat would be a factor. It’s an out and back with the biggest climb coming back out of the turnaround – a 4 mile, 1,250’ slog up mostly exposed fireroad in the heat of the day. Heat, climbing, exposure, dust – sounds awesome, right? But that was all exactly what I was looking for. With my ultimate focus being Western States, opportunities to continue to experiment and gain experience with heat management, long climbs, nutrition, aid station management, etc., were really what pushed me to sign up. My time in 2013 was 10:55 so I set a stretch goal of 10:00 (that I knew was unlikely with my lack of focus this summer), a backup goal of PRing the course, and as always with an ultra, the ultimate goal of just finishing still upright. I put together my pace chart with the 9:59 and 10:55 Aid Station splits, assembled drop bags for the turnaround and the finish, and was ready to run.
Race morning I drove the hour out to Lake Chabot Marina while sipping on a coffee and a slurry of UCAN Superstarch and chia seeds, picked up my bib, took care of pre-race bathroom business, and waited for the 6:30 AM start. It was still a little dark as we gathered near the start, but the first couple of miles are on bike path so I didn’t bother with a light and just settled into an easy pace. Things felt pretty easy as we hit the first 500’ climb, and I chatted with a few other runners as the sun came up. It was really muggy, actually foggy and in the mid-60s, so from the start I worked on keeping up on hydration. I was wearing my Ultimate Direction AK Race Vest with one bottle of sports drink (Tailwind to start, refilling with GU Brew on the course) and the other with water that I could use to help keep cool. My nutrition plan was to aim for about 200-250 calories an hour, and to keep it limited to sports nutrition products for as long as I could to see if that helped prevent the late race stomach issues I’ve had in the past. This race has an ample 13 aid stations so I figured on one gel at each one, take 2-3 more during the few spots on the course where it would take more than an hour to get from one aid to the next, and to just keep drinking sports drink out of the one bottle throughout the day.
Things really went according to plan for the first half. I was moving comfortably at a pace right between the two splits on my pace chart, so I knew that the sub-10 goal wasn’t going to happen. But that didn’t really bother me as I stayed focused on trying to manage effort, heat, hydration and nutrition, and move efficiently up the trail. As we made the climb up to the high point of the course in miles 19-22, the leaders in the marathon that started at our turnaround started streaming by. It’s always inspiring to see those guys and gals at the front of the pack fly up and down the trails. Up and over the top and down the fireroad to the turnaround with a steady stream of encouragement from runners headed both ways, now passing the leaders of the 50M coming back up the hill, running something that most of us would be power hiking. I’ll never know the fitness it takes to do that.
I got to the turnaround at Loan Oak at about mile 26 at just under 5:23, a few minutes ahead of my pace from 2013 and feeling good, with my IT bands and quads holding up great down that 1,250’ downhill. The Aid Station here is a fun Western-theme with a ton of great energy. Even though it can be hard to appreciate the themes when I’m trying to get in and out quickly, this race has great aid stations and volunteers throughout. I am always sure to thank everyone, as they put in a ton of time and effort to support the runners. I haven’t yet done this, but I will be volunteering at a couple of races next year to experience that side of things and give back to this sport that I love so much. I didn’t have crew for this race, but a volunteer brought me my drop bag and I got to work cleaning and re-lubing my feet with Run Goo prior to changing socks. Pouring water on myself had me dealing with wet feet all day, but the Run Goo did a good job of keeping my feet in decent shape. I refilled the bottles, put ice in my bandana, in my hat, and in my rolled-down arm sleeves, downed a gel, and began the long climb back up to Steam Trains Aid Station.
I passed probably a dozen runners as I just kept grinding it out for an hour, all while trying to stay cool as the temps were in the 80s by this point. I got to the Steam Trains Aid Station just shy of the 50K mark in about 6:32, still ahead of my 2013 splits. I loaded up on more ice, popped another gel, filled the bottles, and down the trail I went still feeling good. About three miles later I hit one of the steeper climbs of the course, not brutal but a good 450’ in about a mile, and for the first time all day I started to struggle. I was barely managing a power hike, but my breathing was really hard. I poured water on my head, water on my arm bands, took in some GU Brew, but it kept getting worse. I bent over and put my hands on my knees, and all the people I had passed on the big climb out of Loan Oak came streaming by, with every single one of them asking if I was ok or needed anything (did I mention I love this sport?). “Yeah, I’m good, just struggling, thanks”. By the time I reached the top I was lightheaded, and was even experiencing almost a tunnel vision where things in the periphery were a little fuzzy. I popped an S-Cap thinking it might be electrolyte related, kept pouring water on myself, and kept sipping calories. But even going downhill I was struggling now, with an almost 16-minute mile split there. My head started to come back a little as I focused on just making it to the 37-mile aid station at Skyline Gate, where I would either regroup and figure this thing out or I would be looking at my first DNF. To make matters worse I caught my toe and went down, tumbling through the dirt. I got up and checked to see if I had any injuries and not seeing any blood kept moving. I finally stumbled into Skyline Aid Station almost exactly on my 2013 split of about 8:21.
I cooled myself with the ice/sponge bucket, wiping down my face. I grabbed some Coke and another S-cap, and just sat down for a bit trying to regain composure. I knew a course PR was now out the window, but after about 10-15 minutes of just sitting there and getting some sugar and salt back in me, my head felt pretty clear so I decided to continue. I figured if the light-headedness came back, I could either turn around or just drop at the next aid station 4 ½ mostly downhill miles away. So I got back on the trail and headed down the hill.
After my 100 miler last year my buddy Jim put together a race video that captured well the experience and the struggle I had out there. The song he picked for the second half of the video, covering mile 50 to the finish, was Surrender by Angels and Airwaves. I had never heard it before, but it’s obviously become one of great meaning to me (just watch from about the 4:50 mark). Sure enough, 30 seconds after I left the aid station my iPod shuffles a five hour playlist and lands on that song. “No I, I will not surrender.” You can’t make this stuff up, and I instantly teared up - followed by laughing out loud and smiling for the first time in a couple of hours. I knew then that it was going to be a slow time, but I was finishing this thing.
The rest of the race was really pretty uneventful, it was just a matter of moving forward for another three or so hours and getting it done. I was moving slowly but I was moving, and I was able to keep hydrating, eating, and slowly hiking the ups and running the flats and downs. The last couple of miles of rolling bike path on pavement kind of suck, and as I was for probably a good third of the race I was completely by myself for most of this stretch. I actually passed two runners for the first time in hours in the final mile, and tried to run it in strong and crossed the finish in 11:38:45.
I laid down after I crossed the finish and gathered myself for a few minutes. I got up and took off my shoes (just one small blister), cleaned my feet, changed out of my wet shirt, and kept sipping water and walking around. My stomach wasn’t ready to partake in a burger or beer yet, so I had some broth that seemed to go down fine. I gathered my stuff and started to walk toward the car, and all of a sudden the light headed feeling came back and I immediately laid down on the ground. A volunteer came over to check on me and then brought over a medical volunteer who talked to me for a bit. I sat up and out of nowhere I started puking, first the soup I had just put down but then completely emptying my stomach. Medical brought me some Sprite and a couple of S-caps, and stayed with me for a good twenty minutes to make sure I was ok. After another ten minutes or so I felt good enough to stand up, and slowly walked the 15 minutes back to my car for the drive home.
So while the race didn’t go as planned, I had seven great hours out there before having to gut out the rest. My best guess on the problems I had are around electrolytes – I was cramping pretty severely all over when I got home, and I kept taking S-caps for a few hours (along with some pickle juice) until that finally stopped. I didn’t really take any early in the race, relying upon the GU Brew to get what I thought would be enough. As a salty sweater, the research by Tim Noakes would seem to indicate that I have plenty of electrolytes on board and don’t need to supplement, but I just don’t think that works for me on a warm day, and next time I’ll be doing one per hour from the start and up that to two in the heat of the day. I also think that as my diet hasn’t been on point the past few months with too many carbs, my fat burning isn't where it should be. This leads to the 200 calories or so I was taking in being a little low, so blood sugar may have been a factor as well – especially considering Coke (during) and Sprite (after) both seemed to help. I think getting back into a more metabolically efficient state and ramping my fat burning back up where it was last summer will make the biggest impact there, as when I try to go above 250 calories per hour during the heat I tend to have stomach issues.
My IT bands, achilles, and everything else that have given me problems at times in the past all held up great for the second straight race, so that's really encouraging. My quads were pretty trashed for a few days and I was walking around all herky-jerky like a drunken zombie, but now five days later they're almost back to normal and I'm going to head out today and test things out with a little hike/jog. All in all, the race gave me some more experience in the bank that will only help when that day finally comes that I get the opportunity to run 100 miles from Squaw to Auburn.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Interesting article about Steve Jones: http://fittish.deadspin.com/steve-jones-raw-starting-and-finishing-a-marathon-does-1735884995
I disagree with a lot of what he's saying, but it's an interesting read.
Every year around Chicago Marathon time, mid-October, people want to talk to Steve Jones. He’s enjoyable at other times of year but, like pumpkin spice dark chocolate toffee curry simmer sauce, seems to sell well seasonally. It could be because in two successive autumns—1984, when he set the world marathon record, and 1985, when he missed it by one second—Jones put on a display of balls-out courage at the Chicago Marathon that’s almost extinct today.
Let’s huff a little old school Jonesy to get in the mood before we appreciate what he has to say about running and runners today.
Jones was the type of animal you’d see hunched up at the side of the road, heaving after the first interval, and the sixteenth. The Welsh airplane mechanic took off in the Windy City in a singlet and shorts—no watch, no pansy sports drinks—at a suicidal pace, doped up on Mars bars and Diet Coke. In 1985 there were pacers, but when he pulled even with them in the third mile of the 26.2, they inquired if the pace was adequate, he said no, and carried on. No one in the world class field went with him. He assaulted the first 13 miles, passing two minutes ahead of world record pace, virtually ensuring the remainder of the
These days, Jones, 60, lives and coaches in Boulder, Colorado. What running he does he claims is accomplished under cover of darkness so no one witnesses the incident and calls 911. His courage now comes out in the form of unapologetic honesty. Accordingly, Competitor recently asked some opinion questions, and Jones responded as a straight shooter who never played politics, and is now, if possible, even less inclined to do so. Calling out pseudo-marathoners, gadget makers, and even the publication conducting the interview, Jones’s adult dose articulates what many in the running community are thinking but afraid to say.
Jones answered Competitor’s question of how the sport of running has changed ...
And this about sports drinks and smart watches and heart rate monitors ...
Mass participation has hurt the sport, in my mind. It’s made a lot of people a lot of money. I have to be careful what I say because I get called out on it sometimes, but I don’t believe that starting and finishing a marathon makes you a marathoner. I don’t believe that. If you’re racing it to go as fast as you can, that’s completely different than being part of an event and just wanting to get from point A to point B.
There is no easy way. And that’s what all of these gadgets try to show you is some kind of easier way of training. But there isn’t one. I ran without heart-rate monitors, without sports cords or yoga or chiropractors or physical therapists or massage therapists. I’m a purist at heart. To me, it’s about having your running shoes on your front doorstep and putting them on and going out and running hard. It’s not about measuring how far you’re running, it’s not about checking your heart rate or drinking the right drinks and eating the right foods. All it’s doing is teaching runners to run within their limits so there is no ability to run to their pain threshold or several other thresholds.
Distance running is all about stress and coping with stress. All these gadgets and gimmicks, they take the stress away from it. So when you’re in a race and you don’t have all that stuff on your arms or your pockets or your favorite drink, you don’t know how to cope.
And regarding what bothers him about running today ...
The industry is huge, and the industry is running the sport now, not the sport running the industry. I really believe, if you go back to my era, you had well-established marathons in the UK and you’d get 200 runners. But they were all runners who were running hard and running fast times. Now you’re lucky to get that many in a half marathon. The rest of the people just want to be part of the event. I think it’s great in many ways, but the competitive sport hasn’t grown. The pinnacle hasn’t gotten higher or sharper because of these events and you would have thought after all this time that it would have. But the focus has changed and now there are absurd headlines, and I have to say, you are just as guilty, publishing articles like ‘5 Weeks to a Faster 5K’ or ‘10 Weeks to a Marathon PR.’ It’s bull####. It’s just selling magazines or it just caters to people who are running 4 hours for a marathon or 25 minutes for a 5K.
Strong stuff, but most provocative is what Competitor edited out of the above answer. “And that’s not running in my mind” was cut from end of the online version of this quote, but lives on in the print version.
Jones said via email of the omission, “Whatever changes from the original article were not made by me. The times I quoted are and were examples in general, as opposed to clear cut times.”
Brian Metzler of Competitor did not respond as to why, of all the potentially offensive, advertiser averse things Jones said, he decided to cut that sentence. It’s amazing, and commendable, that calling Competitor magazine’s stock-in-trade articles bull####, and advertisers Gatorade and Garmin’s products unnecessary, somehow made it through the editing process.
Jones’s brand of hair-still-on-it running and opining should be required literature for any runner, competitive or recreational, because it’s perishingly rare that someone can really walk (run) that kind of talk. It needs to be preserved like an artifact.
I disagree with a lot of what he's saying, but it's an interesting read.
Every year around Chicago Marathon time, mid-October, people want to talk to Steve Jones. He’s enjoyable at other times of year but, like pumpkin spice dark chocolate toffee curry simmer sauce, seems to sell well seasonally. It could be because in two successive autumns—1984, when he set the world marathon record, and 1985, when he missed it by one second—Jones put on a display of balls-out courage at the Chicago Marathon that’s almost extinct today.
Let’s huff a little old school Jonesy to get in the mood before we appreciate what he has to say about running and runners today.
Jones was the type of animal you’d see hunched up at the side of the road, heaving after the first interval, and the sixteenth. The Welsh airplane mechanic took off in the Windy City in a singlet and shorts—no watch, no pansy sports drinks—at a suicidal pace, doped up on Mars bars and Diet Coke. In 1985 there were pacers, but when he pulled even with them in the third mile of the 26.2, they inquired if the pace was adequate, he said no, and carried on. No one in the world class field went with him. He assaulted the first 13 miles, passing two minutes ahead of world record pace, virtually ensuring the remainder of the
These days, Jones, 60, lives and coaches in Boulder, Colorado. What running he does he claims is accomplished under cover of darkness so no one witnesses the incident and calls 911. His courage now comes out in the form of unapologetic honesty. Accordingly, Competitor recently asked some opinion questions, and Jones responded as a straight shooter who never played politics, and is now, if possible, even less inclined to do so. Calling out pseudo-marathoners, gadget makers, and even the publication conducting the interview, Jones’s adult dose articulates what many in the running community are thinking but afraid to say.
Jones answered Competitor’s question of how the sport of running has changed ...
And this about sports drinks and smart watches and heart rate monitors ...
Mass participation has hurt the sport, in my mind. It’s made a lot of people a lot of money. I have to be careful what I say because I get called out on it sometimes, but I don’t believe that starting and finishing a marathon makes you a marathoner. I don’t believe that. If you’re racing it to go as fast as you can, that’s completely different than being part of an event and just wanting to get from point A to point B.
There is no easy way. And that’s what all of these gadgets try to show you is some kind of easier way of training. But there isn’t one. I ran without heart-rate monitors, without sports cords or yoga or chiropractors or physical therapists or massage therapists. I’m a purist at heart. To me, it’s about having your running shoes on your front doorstep and putting them on and going out and running hard. It’s not about measuring how far you’re running, it’s not about checking your heart rate or drinking the right drinks and eating the right foods. All it’s doing is teaching runners to run within their limits so there is no ability to run to their pain threshold or several other thresholds.
Distance running is all about stress and coping with stress. All these gadgets and gimmicks, they take the stress away from it. So when you’re in a race and you don’t have all that stuff on your arms or your pockets or your favorite drink, you don’t know how to cope.
And regarding what bothers him about running today ...
The industry is huge, and the industry is running the sport now, not the sport running the industry. I really believe, if you go back to my era, you had well-established marathons in the UK and you’d get 200 runners. But they were all runners who were running hard and running fast times. Now you’re lucky to get that many in a half marathon. The rest of the people just want to be part of the event. I think it’s great in many ways, but the competitive sport hasn’t grown. The pinnacle hasn’t gotten higher or sharper because of these events and you would have thought after all this time that it would have. But the focus has changed and now there are absurd headlines, and I have to say, you are just as guilty, publishing articles like ‘5 Weeks to a Faster 5K’ or ‘10 Weeks to a Marathon PR.’ It’s bull####. It’s just selling magazines or it just caters to people who are running 4 hours for a marathon or 25 minutes for a 5K.
Strong stuff, but most provocative is what Competitor edited out of the above answer. “And that’s not running in my mind” was cut from end of the online version of this quote, but lives on in the print version.
Jones said via email of the omission, “Whatever changes from the original article were not made by me. The times I quoted are and were examples in general, as opposed to clear cut times.”
Brian Metzler of Competitor did not respond as to why, of all the potentially offensive, advertiser averse things Jones said, he decided to cut that sentence. It’s amazing, and commendable, that calling Competitor magazine’s stock-in-trade articles bull####, and advertisers Gatorade and Garmin’s products unnecessary, somehow made it through the editing process.
Jones’s brand of hair-still-on-it running and opining should be required literature for any runner, competitive or recreational, because it’s perishingly rare that someone can really walk (run) that kind of talk. It needs to be preserved like an artifact.
Ned
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Mr. Jones needs to just let it go.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Jeez, Duck, you're incredible!
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Thanks fellas. I often feel like the races I do and the approach I take are almost a different sport than what y'all are doing, so I'm glad some of you enjoy my verbose recaps. I write them for myself as much as anything as I'm still learning so much at each and every race, and I do go back and re-read these often to reinforce and remind myself what's worked and what hasn't.
I did manage 2 1/2 miles today of hiking and slow running, more than anything to get the blood flowing and then get in a good stretching session afterward. I'm happy with how my body held up through this training cycle, especially considering in a 6 week window I ran two races with a combined 80 miles and 16K of elevation, and had some good training weeks in between. I just have to keep working on the hydration/electrolyte/nutrition mystery.
I'm not sure what's next, but will be treating the next month or two as on offseason. I plan on actually using that gym membership I've been paying for to try and get stronger, and once I'm fully recovered and feeling motivated again I'm thinking about putting in a short cycle with a focus on speed and quality to mix things up a bit.
The first Saturday in December is the Western States lottery, so that will be the first domino that determines what next year is going to look like.
Thanks to you all for the continued support and inspiration!
I did manage 2 1/2 miles today of hiking and slow running, more than anything to get the blood flowing and then get in a good stretching session afterward. I'm happy with how my body held up through this training cycle, especially considering in a 6 week window I ran two races with a combined 80 miles and 16K of elevation, and had some good training weeks in between. I just have to keep working on the hydration/electrolyte/nutrition mystery.
I'm not sure what's next, but will be treating the next month or two as on offseason. I plan on actually using that gym membership I've been paying for to try and get stronger, and once I'm fully recovered and feeling motivated again I'm thinking about putting in a short cycle with a focus on speed and quality to mix things up a bit.
The first Saturday in December is the Western States lottery, so that will be the first domino that determines what next year is going to look like.
Thanks to you all for the continued support and inspiration!
worrierking
Footballguy
We are definitely not participating in the same sport!
I am very interested in how much thought and strategy is involved in your nutrition.
Great effort and great report.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think he's too far out on a limb, but to some degree I agree with him about the reliance on technology and exercise science in today's running. I think some are too reliant on what data is telling them as far as their effort is concerned, telling them when to push it and when to reign things back instead of just testing their own limits.
Hang 10
Footballguy
I agree with that even though I love the data. I also agree with him that despite the growing popularity of the sport, the general competitiveness of races seem to going in the wrong direction and I really don't known why.
shady inc
Footballguy
taking a half day today. driving from columbua, MO to des plaines, IL (about 6.5 hours) to a hotel tonight. des plaines river trail marathon at 7 AM tomorrow morning.
a few things i'm a little nervous about:
1) i feel like a 3 week taper was too long. my last long run was 20 miles on 9/26. then i did 12 miles on 10/3, and 8 miles on 10/10. in hindsight, i think i would have rather had a 2 week taper, but i'll know for next time.
2) i always eat some home-made grilled salmon (or other fresh fish) with some cooked veggies the night before a long run. I did that each night before all of the 20 mile runs in the training program. It's light and easy to digest. Driving all afternoon and going straight to a hotel, i'm not sure what to do for dinner. My current plan is to get some cooked fish from a restaurant in des plaines - there are a few places i looked up online, and i can either eat there or just get takeout back to the hotel. anyone have any other ideas?
Still targeting a goal of 3:43. reading through all of the recent race reports on here has me fired up. can't wait!
a few things i'm a little nervous about:
1) i feel like a 3 week taper was too long. my last long run was 20 miles on 9/26. then i did 12 miles on 10/3, and 8 miles on 10/10. in hindsight, i think i would have rather had a 2 week taper, but i'll know for next time.
2) i always eat some home-made grilled salmon (or other fresh fish) with some cooked veggies the night before a long run. I did that each night before all of the 20 mile runs in the training program. It's light and easy to digest. Driving all afternoon and going straight to a hotel, i'm not sure what to do for dinner. My current plan is to get some cooked fish from a restaurant in des plaines - there are a few places i looked up online, and i can either eat there or just get takeout back to the hotel. anyone have any other ideas?
Still targeting a goal of 3:43. reading through all of the recent race reports on here has me fired up. can't wait!
Last edited by a moderator:
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Good luck to Shady, Hang 10 (half is this weekend, right?), Northern Voice and anybody else running this weekend!
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'm probably not the right person to address that since all I know is competitive racing, but I think an increasingly more health conscious society plays a big part in it. There are a lot more people participating in races that are doing it for their health and not to compete.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I wasn't running 80 miles but I'll still answer this question. My muscles seem to recover reasonably quickly but I really need some easy time to recover from all the nagging injuries that I've been ignoring for months.
Hang 10
Footballguy
No, don't get me wrong, I think more people of all abilities is a good thing. What's concerning though is that I've noticed a drop in quality at the top of a lot of local races. I remember years ago, I ran a local 8K in 32:03 and finished 8th in my age group. This past year my buddy won that same age group with 33 and change. This is just one example but I've got plenty more.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
12 then 8 seems like a pretty steep drop off. I think many of us have 3 week tapers with long runs of, like 17 and 13 (I think I did 16 and 12). Anyway, you should still be fine. Good luck!
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
At least in the Chicago area there seems to be more and more races every year. I have also noticed some drop off but I wonder if it's just due to the more competitive runners having more options.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
"The DPR Trail is a wide, crushed gravel track, free of roots and rocks, and very flat"
Sounds like this will make for a fast trail race, very cool! I see they have a 50M option as well....next year?
I'm also a salmon eater the night before races, although I go with white rice or risotto instead of veggies (limiting fiber the night before). My preference when traveling to a race is to find a hotel with a kitchenette and bring my own to make. Second choice is a hotel with a fridge and microwave, and I'll cook it up the night before, throw it in a single large tupperware and then heat it up at the hotel. But if neither is an option, or I'm with the family (who doesn't want to be stuck in a salmon-smelling hotel room eating leftovers), then I'll do what you are thinking and find a restaurant nearby that carries it and just go there.
ETA: Just remembered that my very first trail ultra in 2009, I made up chicken and risotto the night before. On Friday I headed up to Lake Tahoe, a four hour drive away. I really wanted to eat dinner early, in an effort to have my morning constitutional happen early as well, so I pulled over at a rest stop on the way up at 5:00 and heated up my dinner with a backpacking stove and ate right there.
Good luck, look forward to hearing about it!
Last edited by a moderator:
Hang 10
Footballguy
That would seem to be the most obvious reason. It's still odd because it seemed like it happened all of a sudden. For years I've run this 10K and you have to run 37 minutes or better to place in your age group next year, I place with 39 minutes.
Last edited by a moderator:
Brony
Footballguy
Good luck with the race! The city of Des Plaines isn't that close to the race start (oddly). The place you really want to go in Des Plaines is Paradise Pup - long standing hot dog joint. awesome. But, if you are looking to eat healthy, I don't know of a specific place and I'd be googling places like you probably are. I've only been to Choo Choo place and Paradise Pup in DP. Further up by the race start on Milwaukee Ave. there are decent chain restaurants as well as Bob Chinn's if you are thinking seafood. Chinn's is casual and is famous for the tons of fresh seafood they get in each day.
Nigel
Footballguy
Just got official word that Ive got a spot on the MGH pediatric cancer charity team for Boston next year. I was kind of assuming they'd want me back given I did above average with fundraising but it's good to know for sure.
So my plan for the next year is to run my HM next weekend, get the ablation on 11/4 then a little time off before I start training to crush the 3:57 from 2015. Of course it's premature but I've got getting under 3:40 in my head. And getting even further ahead of myself, if Boston goes well and getting the heart squared away/getting off the meds makes it a reasonable proposition I might shoot for a BQ next fall. Getting a Boston bib the hard way is definitely on my must-do list.
So my plan for the next year is to run my HM next weekend, get the ablation on 11/4 then a little time off before I start training to crush the 3:57 from 2015. Of course it's premature but I've got getting under 3:40 in my head. And getting even further ahead of myself, if Boston goes well and getting the heart squared away/getting off the meds makes it a reasonable proposition I might shoot for a BQ next fall. Getting a Boston bib the hard way is definitely on my must-do list.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Hopefully you recover faster than me. Took me a couple months before I felt like myself.
gruecd
Footballguy
So are we 100% doing this thing in Crystal Lake?
PS: For medal mongers like tri-man, here are last year's results: http://www.drkomputing.com/results/2014/nwtr1014.htm
PS: For medal mongers like tri-man, here are last year's results: http://www.drkomputing.com/results/2014/nwtr1014.htm
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I'm 100% in if you guys are. I'll probably wait until day of race sign-up though in case you guys decide to bail on me!
Do any of you know how technical these trails are? I'm assuming not very.
gruecd
Footballguy
Considering last year's winner went 1:02:06 (6:13/mile), I'd assume the same.I'm 100% in if you guys are. I'll probably wait until day of race sign-up though in case you guys decide to bail on me!
Do any of you know how technical these trails are? I'm assuming not very.
Brony
Footballguy
I don't have any conflicts that day and usually nothing pops up early on a Sunday morning. Can't guarantee that I'll be going for a PR or nothing, but feeling good about attending the event. Like Juxt, I may wait to register but moreso cause of body readiness.
Brony
Footballguy
First run with GPS this morning. Running in the dark didn't help the cause, but I think I got some of the kinks worked out in terms of uploading. Annoyed that it takes awhile to find a satellite, but minor inconvenience. Also, I don't have a PC near my morning routine, so I need to find some better way of uploading results.
I prefer running light and encumbered so I don't foresee ever wearing a HR monitor strap. I'll continue to go by my breathing rate to judge my effort level.
Now looking forward to moving up the leaderboards on Strava segments! You guys will also see that I run the exact same ~2 mile loop every day. Boring, but it's so accessible and no stop signs/lights.
I prefer running light and encumbered so I don't foresee ever wearing a HR monitor strap. I'll continue to go by my breathing rate to judge my effort level.
Now looking forward to moving up the leaderboards on Strava segments! You guys will also see that I run the exact same ~2 mile loop every day. Boring, but it's so accessible and no stop signs/lights.
That dude also owns 68:57 HM / 2:29:11 FM PRs, so I might be careful drawing conclusions based off of the 6:13/mi 10-miler.Considering last year's winner went 1:02:06 (6:13/mile), I'd assume the same.I'm 100% in if you guys are. I'll probably wait until day of race sign-up though in case you guys decide to bail on me!
Do any of you know how technical these trails are? I'm assuming not very.
Ned
Footballguy
Yeah, I was going to say.... if the OA winner ran 6:13/mi, I'd say the trail has something technical to it. Otherwise, that's one slow 10 mile race.That dude also owns 68:57 HM / 2:29:11 FM PRs, so I might be careful drawing conclusions based off of the 6:13/mi 10-miler.Considering last year's winner went 1:02:06 (6:13/mile), I'd assume the same.I'm 100% in if you guys are. I'll probably wait until day of race sign-up though in case you guys decide to bail on me!
Do any of you know how technical these trails are? I'm assuming not very.
Brony
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Oh, ####! I'm going to get lost.
Ned
Footballguy
Just follow gruecd. Even if you end up off trail, that big summbich will just make his own new trail.
Last edited by a moderator:
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
I fall on the other side. Yeah you don't need the science, but why ignore it when there is volumes of research supporting it. Some of the top NCAA soccer teams are using hr data to determine practice/training time on an individual basis.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Brony said:
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
tri-man: I'm doing Marine Corps next weekend! Fingers crossed.....am nursing a minor hamstring injury and thus laying low. Made it through 20-miler a couple weeks ago and felt pretty good overall.
