Ran a 10k - Official Thread (10 Viewers)

[Osaurus]

Did my airport 5k yesterday. It was kind of different and fun running on a runway.  I tracked this one on GPS.  GPS Tracking

 

[tri-man 47]

FB post from gruecd:

"3:34:36 at the ORLEN Warsaw Marathon. Ran a smart, controlled race and felt pretty good the whole way."

I know he had little time to prepare, so that is a really good effort for his current conditioning.  He's not getting older, he's getting smarter.  

 

[Brony]

You guys think a "race"like this would frown upon a couple people showing up that didn't pay? I mean, they don't even have bibs (wristbands I think) or a closed course. 

http://breweryrunningseries.com/product/goose-island-brew-beer-run/

I'd crash this with you but i'm hosting a first communion reception at my house this day.

 

[ChiefD]

FB post from gruecd:

"3:34:36 at the ORLEN Warsaw Marathon. Ran a smart, controlled race and felt pretty good the whole way."

I know he had little time to prepare, so that is a really good effort for his current conditioning.  He's not getting older, he's getting smarter.  

Awesome job grue. 

 

[beer 30]

Grue living large, happy to see him in a good place again.

 

[Ned]

I am curious since this is the first time I raced a fully tapered marathon with a HR monitor, so while I was initially alarmed at the 160-165 reading I was getting early on, I was also confident enough to know that the effort felt right to my body and basically stopped looking at the HR data after 5-6 miles or so. I did notice in my practice runs my HR was more in the 155-160 range whereas during the race I got into the 160s pretty early on, but just assumed this is because my legs were more rested and were therefore able to push a bit harder.

I experienced this as well during my marathon, in my last Marathon pace training run I averaged 156-163 and I averaged 167 for the actual race.  I saw 165 early on and decided to stop looking at it.

I know we've discussed it before, but both of these posts have always been what I've experienced in the HM and the FM.  My HR during the race is always a few bpm higher than it is at the same paces during training.  I chalk it up to a few factors:

1. Its an guesstimate, but I'd bet I'm operating around 85% during a training cycle.  Its just the nature of piling on the mileage.  I've always seen a lower HR when my legs are fatigued and in that grind mode.  
   
2. Race day adrenaline.  I don't know about you guys, but I can elevate my HR by 8-10bpm just thinking about racing someone (while I'm out on an every day run).  The atmosphere just has to be a factor.
   

@SteveC702 - I'd love to pretend to be able to give you advice, but you're in such rare air I think anything I'd add wouldn't really be applicable.  I'll just keep the  going.  Go get'm, GB!

 

[Ned]

My weekend was an interesting one.  I'm happy I'm able to run today.  

Saturday morning I was on my way with 2 friends to our first big outdoor archery tournament of the year and ended up in a car wreck.  Buddy was driving, stopped at a stop sign.  Thought it was a 4way, but it was a 2way.  I was in the front passenger seat looking back talking to the other guy when he goes WHOA WHOA WHOA.  I look out his window (driver side back seat) and see a car coming right at us, and then boom!  We were hit on my side of the truck (never saw it coming).  We spun and hit the embankment on the other side.  When I looked out my window the other car was pinned against my door.  His truck while visibly looks OK, is in pretty bad shape.  Nobody wanted to drive it, so I drove it and we stopped after a mile and called a tow.  

The 3 of us were luckily fine - I just have a bruised hip and a tiny knot on the side of my head.  We all agreed if it weren't for the wet roads, we would've likely flipped and been way worse off.  Scary stuff, but very happy to be fine and out running today.  It certainly changed my perspective a bit while I was out enjoying the sunny 70 degrees today.

 

[igbomb]

igbomb - recognizing that many here have likely heard more than enough of my harping on HR (and everything else, for that matter ), I can put together a summary ...couched in training ranges that Ned has posted at some point, and in the context we've discussed about knowing our resting rates and max HR.

So I know my resting HR (duh) but have never worked to get to a max heart rate, and frankly don't relish the idea. I've flirted with figuring out my lactate threshold using Joe Friel's method. Would this suffice, or do I need to see how close I can push myself to death?

 

[SayWhat?]

@gruecd - Crushed it!   Nice work.

@Ned - Scary stuff man.  Glad that you're ok. 

As for me, just haven't made time for running the past two weeks since the Zumbro 50.  Mentally committing myself to getting back on track beginning today, with consistent runs and just as importantly getting my diet back on course. 

ETA - I figure if I type that out I'm a bit more liable than if not. 

 

[Ned]

igbomb - recognizing that many here have likely heard more than enough of my harping on HR (and everything else, for that matter ), I can put together a summary ...couched in training ranges that Ned has posted at some point, and in the context we've discussed about knowing our resting rates and max HR.

So I know my resting HR (duh) but have never worked to get to a max heart rate, and frankly don't relish the idea. I've flirted with figuring out my lactate threshold using Joe Friel's method. Would this suffice, or do I need to see how close I can push myself to death?

Funny, I was just looking for your OP to quote.  Here's what I've written in the past on the subject - https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/302486-ran-a-10k-in-june/?page=964#comment-15307553

I've never tried Friel's method for finding LTT, but I think it's very similar to what @BassNBrew used to recommend (who's knowledge I respect a ton). 

 

[pbm107]

@Ned I am happy to hear that your are okay.  I hate those 2way intersections that look like 4, I have too many of them in my neighborhood. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

Glad you're OK, @Ned! I know it sometimes takes a few days after crashes to feel all the injuries so it's an encouraging sign that your run went well today! 

 

[Ned]

Glad you're OK, @Ned! I know it sometimes takes a few days after crashes to feel all the injuries so it's an encouraging sign that your run went well today! 

Yeah it's weird how that happens.  I didn't even know my hip was bruised until I went to put on my jeans the next morning and thought oh man, that's tender.

 

[ChiefD]

Glad to hear you are ok Ned. Scary stuff. 

 

[MAC_32]

So I know I shouldn't change things up 3 weeks before a race, but...I am.  I decided during our long weekend in Boston that I am making a run at qualifying for 2018.  Training started today.  From a high level I'm not planning on making (m)any drastic changes to what I was doing, but I get that any sort of adjustments at this point in the training cycle isn't wise.  I'm using the next 10-12 days to experiment and if my body isn't responding well I'll hit the off switch before the race a little early then make marathon training adjustments after the race.  I still want my sub 90 half after all.  If the changes end up costing me a minute or two then so be it.  Don't want to get too cocky because that's when karma will get you in this cruel sport, but I think I can get the sub 90 anyway; it's just a matter of by how much.  I've been operating at less than 100% too much of my adult life, so now that I have been for 4 straight months I think I need to make a run at this now before something else goes wrong.  Maybe I've figured out why I am constantly battling something, made the right adjustments, and am finally going to be consistently healthy but I don't want to be too patient and get burned waiting too long before giving it a go.

Any advice on this jump is welcome.  I have some ideas written down, but the more info the better.

 

[Ned]

So I know I shouldn't change things up 3 weeks before a race, but...I am.  I decided during our long weekend in Boston that I am making a run at qualifying for 2018.  Training started today.  From a high level I'm not planning on making (m)any drastic changes to what I was doing, but I get that any sort of adjustments at this point in the training cycle isn't wise.  I'm using the next 10-12 days to experiment and if my body isn't responding well I'll hit the off switch before the race a little early then make marathon training adjustments after the race.  I still want my sub 90 half after all.  If the changes end up costing me a minute or two then so be it.  Don't want to get too cocky because that's when karma will get you in this cruel sport, but I think I can get the sub 90 anyway; it's just a matter of by how much.  I've been operating at less than 100% too much of my adult life, so now that I have been for 4 straight months I think I need to make a run at this now before something else goes wrong.  Maybe I've figured out why I am constantly battling something, made the right adjustments, and am finally going to be consistently healthy but I don't want to be too patient and get burned waiting too long before giving it a go.

Any advice on this jump is welcome.  I have some ideas written down, but the more info the better.

You absolutely have the speed to BQ, but I will caution you.... Volume is paramount and its not something you can force.  Be careful biting off too much too soon.  

How old are you?

 

[pbm107]

Any advice on this jump is welcome.  I have some ideas written down, but the more info the better.

You should look Hang10's Strava monthly totals from June to Oct for a good example on how to build up.  You have plenty of speed and talent, just need the endurance.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Damn @Ned, glad you're alright!

@gruecd, nicely done considering the training you've had!  Looks like you're having a blast over there as well.

I just finished up my last block of real training for the upcoming 100K, with 4+ hours/3K' elevation gain in the hills above Salt Lake City on Friday, a little hiking/jogging recovery this weekend, and then one last downhill workout this morning with three downhill repeats (0.3 mile at -11% grade) and then comfortably hard back down the trail (1.3 miles, -5% grade).  My training hasn't been what I'd hoped it would when I signed up for this thing, but I think I've made the best of it considering the achilles issues that I dealt with from Thanksgiving through about 8 weeks ago.  Twelve days until race day, I plan on a handful of hour runs/hikes during the week and one more 90-120 minute outing sometime this weekend, and hopefully absorbing the training I've done, such as it is.

 

[Nigel]

I wouldn't be that surprised by a doctor at the Boston Marathon not considering something like hyponatremia.  I'd imagine that race commands an "all hands on deck" approach from a medical professional perspective, and that a certain percentage of those doctors may not be well versed with something like hyponatremia which really isn't much of a medical concern outside of endurance sports. 

I didn't mention it in my report but the doc did say this was the likely culprit, according to my wife.

 

[Nigel]

Congrats to Gru on an awesome race, must have really impressed the bride's family! And Ned, glad you're ok buddy.

I'm still not over the marathon failure. I remember being on a high for a solid month after the first one last year, complete opposite right now. Not feeling sorry for myself, just pissed off and wishing I had a do-over. I need to recalibrate and find another race to focus on, find a new purpose as I'm not great at running just for the sake of running. I'm going to try to keep the mileage up, don't want to give up any of the fitness I've built up, and I haven't completely ruled up running a fall marathon to try to put down a much faster time.

 

[MAC_32]

You absolutely have the speed to BQ, but I will caution you.... Volume is paramount and its not something you can force.  Be careful biting off too much too soon.  

How old are you?

33. I am on schedule for 160 miles this month. Without looking I think I net 140-130-150 the first three months of the year. Usually when I spike to this range I end up injured, so being able to maintain helped push me to this decision. Expecting a modest step back in May due to the race, but I penciled in 175 in June then 200 in July as I add an extra long run per week. If I'm going to do this I have to add a medium-long run during the week, so I figure Summer is the best time to add a weekly 6 am run. Who knows, maybe I'll finally turn into an early morning runner? Figure I'll adjust from there, but I'll check out hang10's Summer 2015 development per @pbm107's recommendation.   

 

[parasaurolophus]

Had a great run in NYC this weekend. Saw quite a few areas I had never seen. I just wish you didnt have to get up so early to really enjoy a run there. 

 

[FUBAR]

  and it begins.  Only 130 SI (68/62) but today's slow 8.5 was rough.  Legs are still sore from Sunday's brick even though it wasn't brutal.  Maybe I'm just out of shape.  Gotta squeeze through the next two weeks and then I'll taper for 10 days.

 

[tri-man 47]

@Ned - yikes!  Be careful about things tightening up still this week.   Glad everyone is OK.

@MAC - Go for it!  So isn't your healthy stretch correlating with more slow mile running?  That could be a big part of it.  As mentioned above, the marathon will call for a lot of long, slow miles.  Prepare to be bored. 

@Nigel - Your marathon PR is a failure?  I totally hear what you're saying, but then again, take a step back and realize that you just completed a marathon in tough conditions ...and not just any marathon!  Last night in my graduate course, my students were eager to hear about the Boston experience.  I was hesitant about using class time for it, but they were clearly engaged and interested.  I concluded by noting my overall frustration with the race, yet being pleased to finish top 15% in my age group ...and they then all applauded.    Boston is special, my friend.  You endured, and you crossed the finish line on Boylston.  Be very proud!

As for me, some quick gear-up for a 5K in Arkansas on Saturday.  No knowledge of the course (probably rolling hills; maybe some trails?), and it's supposed to be heavy rains through my niece's wedding weekend.  Not that that bothers me ...she doesn't like me much anyway. 

Saturday - 4 x 1 mile repeats (6:53; 6:50; 6:44; 6:39).

Today - 4 x 1/2 mile repeats (pacing of 6:53; 6:35; 6:35; 6:16).  Legs were really popping on that last one.  Best case for the race is probably 21 minutes.

I'll run another 5K on 5/21 before heading to Europe a week later for a month-long stay. 

 

[Ned]

I hate you guys and your quick post-marathon recoveries!  :incrediblyjealous:

 

[Hang 10]

Anyone else's running suffering during pollen season? My running has been absolute #### lately and pretty sure a big part has been the high pollen index around here lately. Been waking up feeling like I have a hangover headache. It's awful. 

 

[MAC_32]

I figured it was all the beer and whiskey last weekend, but your reason is both healthier and reasonable so I'll go with that instead.

 

[Hang 10]

I figured it was all the beer and whiskey last weekend, but your reason is both healthier and reasonable so I'll go with that instead.

A hangover without the previous night of fun is really a kick in the nuts.

I have college buddy of mine coming into town for the next couple days. We shall see if a real hangover cancels the pollen one out. 

 

[Ned]

@IvanKaramazov  Where you at, GB?  

 

[ChiefD]

So some questions for the HR guys here. I'm at a tipping point right now in my training, and a little bit nervous. The last 1/2 has me really encouraged, but now is the time to make a decision. But I need some help to point me in a direction.

Some frame of reference (these are what I would call my easy runs):

First HR training session in Jan 2014: 10:57 pace, 147 HR.

Yesterday's training session: 9:47 pace, 148 HR.

So as I'm looking long term, I have to decide - do I want to continue down this path and really see how fast I can get? And if I go down this road, a few questions:

1. How do you guys achieve such low HR's on your easy runs? I'm guessing time and volume, but is there a volume per week that you need to really make a giant leap to being really efficient? And is it about running even slower paces on easy runs to get that lower HR? My worry is that what I consider an easy pace is really too fast, and that I really need to slow down even more. The problem with this is if I try to get my HR in the 130's, I'm basically walking fast.

2. How long did it take to progress from your starting points to where some of you are now?

3. What do you think is a good volume per week to make an impactful leap to being more efficient? I know right now my volume surely needs to go up. Because I don't think I run enough "yet" to be considered a serious runner.

For a guy like me, is Boston ever a realistic goal? Right now I say no, and I know if I were ever to make a run at it I'm probably looking at a 3-4 year serious commitment to ever get the speed. Maybe more. But I'm not sure if this is even realistic.

Or do I just plod on and make minor gains over a two year period at current volume? That's where I'm at.

I know opinions will be all over the place, and I know the answer is probably "depends on too many factors". But any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[MAC_32]

@ChiefD Height, weight, body fat, age? What's your diet like during the week? Weekend? How many special occasions (weddings, vacations, annual parties, etc) do you have per year? How often do you cheat on the diet? How much sleep per night? How would you describe your stress levels during the week? Weekend? Does anything in particular have a tendency to screw up your day? Sorry, I forget, what sort of injuries have you dealt with the last few years? Anything serious from more than a few years ago? Anything nagging? Besides my questions?

I get this wasn't really your question, but I think answers to these questions will aid with the HRguys recommendations and provide more clarity for your goals.

 

[FUBAR]

Anyone else's running suffering during pollen season? My running has been absolute #### lately and pretty sure a big part has been the high pollen index around here lately. Been waking up feeling like I have a hangover headache. It's awful. 

 

Although it's not as bad here as north carolina. 

 

[FUBAR]

So some questions for the HR guys here. I'm at a tipping point right now in my training, and a little bit nervous. The last 1/2 has me really encouraged, but now is the time to make a decision. But I need some help to point me in a direction.

Some frame of reference (these are what I would call my easy runs):

First HR training session in Jan 2014: 10:57 pace, 147 HR.

Yesterday's training session: 9:47 pace, 148 HR.

So as I'm looking long term, I have to decide - do I want to continue down this path and really see how fast I can get? And if I go down this road, a few questions:

1. How do you guys achieve such low HR's on your easy runs? I'm guessing time and volume, but is there a volume per week that you need to really make a giant leap to being really efficient? And is it about running even slower paces on easy runs to get that lower HR? My worry is that what I consider an easy pace is really too fast, and that I really need to slow down even more. The problem with this is if I try to get my HR in the 130's, I'm basically walking fast.

2. How long did it take to progress from your starting points to where some of you are now?

3. What do you think is a good volume per week to make an impactful leap to being more efficient? I know right now my volume surely needs to go up. Because I don't think I run enough "yet" to be considered a serious runner.

For a guy like me, is Boston ever a realistic goal? Right now I say no, and I know if I were ever to make a run at it I'm probably looking at a 3-4 year serious commitment to ever get the speed. Maybe more. But I'm not sure if this is even realistic.

Or do I just plod on and make minor gains over a two year period at current volume? That's where I'm at.

I know opinions will be all over the place, and I know the answer is probably "depends on too many factors". But any thoughts would be appreciated.

Yep, depends. 

I made most of my gains in the first six months but I'm nowhere near some of these guys, running wise anyway. 

Best thing to do is just stick with maf religiously, test every few weeks until you are no longer improving.  Plus everything mac wrote.

 

[ChiefD]

@ChiefD 

Height: 5'7"

weight: 154

body fat: don't know

age: 46

What's your diet like during the week? Pretty balanced. Not enough calories for sure.

Weekend? Pretty balanced. Not enough calories for sure. Will have a few beers on Friday and Saturday nights, but not excessive.

How many special occasions (weddings, vacations, annual parties, etc) do you have per year? Usually one ten day vacation in June. Going to start taking another each year. Not much in the way of other special occasions that take away from running time.

How often do you cheat on the diet? Not often. I rarely eat fast food or anything really "bad" for me. I have always eaten in moderation, and we eat a ton of fruits, veggies, lean meats in our house.

How much sleep per night? 7 hours on average.

How would you describe your stress levels during the week? High

Weekend? Low

Does anything in particular have a tendency to screw up your day? Not really, other than unplanned things. Meaning, my wife forgets she has to go somewhere at night, and now I can't run.

Sorry, I forget, what sort of injuries have you dealt with the last few years? Nothing serious. Normal aches and pains.

Anything serious from more than a few years ago? None.

Anything nagging? My right hip and hammy have been weird the last month or so, but I think it's IT band related.

Besides my questions?

I get this wasn't really your question, but I think answers to these questions will aid with the HRguys recommendations and provide more clarity for your goals.

 

[MAC_32]

The wife issue is kind of difficult to get around, but anyway you can shift some of your weekday stress to the weekend? Are there things you do during the week that could be done over the weekend? This impacts your performance/HR during the work week, which I'm assuming is important to efficiently increasing your miles (will report back in a year'ish). 

You will definitely need to consume more calories to increase your mileage though. 

Using May to experiment before vacation then creating a more disciplined plan going forward afterwards seems like he way to go this Summer. Plan to re-eval when the Royals are eliminated from playoff contention in September. 

 

[ChiefD]

The wife issue is kind of difficult to get around, but anyway you can shift some of your weekday stress to the weekend? Are there things you do during the week that could be done over the weekend? This impacts your performance/HR during the work week, which I'm assuming is important to efficiently increasing your miles (will report back in a year'ish). 

You will definitely need to consume more calories to increase your mileage though. 

Using May to experiment before vacation then creating a more disciplined plan going forward afterwards seems like he way to go this Summer. Plan to re-eval when the Royals are eliminated from playoff contention in September. 

Weekday stress is 100% work related, so no real way to avoid that. And I certainly won't switch that to the weekend. The weekend is my haven.

Any good ideas about increasing calories without having to poop all over myself every time I run? I ran into this last summer when I tried to increase calories during my marathon training, and my gi system was all out of wack. Need to figure this part out. I can't always have to crap on every single run. 

Like you idea for May, and I will already have somewhat of a plan in place for my Chicago marathon training. That plan starts the second week of June, which is the week we go on vacation. I'm already planning on running during this vacation this year - it's in Minnesota and the cool weather will benefit me.

Hilarious about the World Champion Royals. .

 

[MAC_32]

Ignoring the beers I drank when we had guests tonight   this is my standard daily diet

Half an everything bagel with almond butter, oatmeal, a banana, and black coffee for breakfast

About an hour before I run (usually over lunch during the week) and after the morning ####, Greek yogurt + fruit and a handful of some sort of nut if I still feel hungry

Always carry a ziplock bag full of pretzels and energy chews just in case calories become an issue mid-run/workout

Immediately after working out, cottage cheese + fruit.

Sometime later, small salad (no cheese, vinagerette dressing) and a sandwich on whole wheat with plenty of veggies and just enough meat. Sometimes leftovers instead of the sandwich.

I always keep a 32 oz water, bag full of cut up cucumber/carrots/celery, pita chips + hummus, a hard boiled egg, and a full avocado on standby. I eat the avocado (and egg) like an apple. This probably shouldn't be done within eye sight of anyone, but if you're running out of calories and have some time before dinner this is a great go-to. As our kids' extra curricular activities have pushed our dinner closer to 8 pm this has been critical to avoiding bad decisions.

As I've found out through some unfortunate experiences, if you can't run until later in the day then find a replacement for the salad, egg, avocado, and anything 'cheese.' I usually do both a sandwich and leftovers on these days and end up alright.

 

[Nigel]

how many calories is that Mac?

 

[MAC_32]

how many calories is that Mac?

I don't know exactly, unfortunately. Probably 1500-1800 (didn't account for dinner) but I don't calorie track anymore and it varies on what I snack on during the day. I just check my weight once/week and note any irregularities in my daily diet. If I drop too much then I just compensate with milk instead of water when I'm home. If I add then I eliminate the snacks while I watch baseball at night. Same story if I have special events coming up. I'd rather let my guard down and have a few beers with my buddies than nuke some popcorn a few nights during the week. If I feel hungry then I probably skipped something, but that's what the standby's are for. 

Overall, the less time and energy I spend monitoring what I consume the better. Use that time and energy on other things. It does take some planning, experimenting, and discipline to get there. It's a lot more satisfying reaching for that avocado than the cliff bar that used to be on my desk at three in the afternoon though. Cleaner eating has led to me feeling more effortless on many of my runs as well as faster recovery. Some posts by @Ned months ago helped hammer that approach home.

 

[Juxtatarot]

 My worry is that what I consider an easy pace is really too fast, and that I really need to slow down even more. The problem with this is if I try to get my HR in the 130's, I'm basically walking fast.

If it feels easy, it's not too fast. Trust how you feel.

However, even if you are running on the difficult side of "easy" that still works fine as long as you're not having trouble recovering or you keep getting injured.

You also asked the question about running slower to get faster.  I have found the opposite to be true for me. I have gotten faster by running faster.  I think my easy pace was around 9:00 for my first marathon and now it's around 7:40.

 

[FUBAR]

how many calories is that Mac?

How many carbs is that mac?  

 

[MAC_32]

How many carbs is that mac?  

It's usually meat and veggies for dinner but yeah I've never been able to stick with a routine lower in carbs. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

@ChiefD You might want to considering running the Pfitz 18/55 schedule this time. I think several of us had a jump in success running that. Or, at least, it was a bridge to future success. Namely (I think) me, Grue, Ned, pbm, Hang 10 and Ivan. Probably others that I'm forgetting.  

One concern is it might be too aggressive for the volume you've been running. If you decide to go down this route, you should start increasing your mileage ASAP as pre-training.

 

[FUBAR]

@ChiefD You might want to considering running the Pfitz 18/55 schedule this time. I think several of us had a jump in success running that. Or, at least, it was a bridge to future success. Namely (I think) me, Grue, Ned, pbm, Hang 10 and Ivan. Probably others that I'm forgetting.  

One concern is it might be too aggressive for the volume you've been running. If you decide to go down this route, you should start increasing your mileage ASAP as pre-training.

How much time do you have want to put into your goal? 

One plan would be to increase your mileage through MAF, then hit the Pfitz 18/55 schedule. 

 

[Ned]

@ChiefD - my  

1 - Why are you trying to get into the 130s? Comparing HRs of other runners will just drive you nuts... If you just watched @Juxtatarot on strava, you'd want to toss your HRM in the trash (I swear he's half comatose on his easy runs).  Conversely, we have the hummingbird @Hang 10 who has a 206 max!  I wish we never spoke in terms of bpm and rather spoke in terms of % of max.  There is no magic mileage number or pace to hit to bring your HR down.  Its a simple matter of lots of volume and consistency.  You gotta run a lot and (virtually) all the time.... 

2 - I started using my HRM seriously in 2011.  I was running low to mid 9's on my "easy" runs (incorrectly) and was in the low 150s.  I didn't start to sniff the 140s until late in my first marathon training cycle.  When I'm in good shape, my easy runs are in the low 8's and under 145.  

3 - All I can say is more volume than you're doing now... Some folks need a ton of mileage (like me) where others are more gifted endurance runners and need less volume.  All you can do is up your volume and see how you respond.  I will say - there's a big difference between training to complete a marathon and training to race a marathon.  I agree with @Juxtatarot - give the Pfitz book a read and try the 18/55.  If you do, you definitely need to get your weekly volume up prior to it.  You should be comfortably around 35-40mpw before starting 18/55, IMO.

Boston - You need < 3:25 for 45-49yrs old. Sure that's possible with a few solid marathon cycles.  You'll need to dedicate a couple of years to it, IMHO.  It took me from 2011 to 2014 to get from 4:42 to 3:09.

 

[FUBAR]

 It took me from 2011 to 2014 to get from 4:42 to 3:09.

I keep forgetting how far some of you guys have come.  it's simply astounding.

 

[pbm107]

@ChiefD  you have been given some really good answers already, but since you are on Strava and you know everyone's name take some time to lookup some of us on Athlinks to see the kind of progress can be made over the years.

You haven't been on Strava that long so I don't know what kind of training volume you have run in the past, but based on what I saw on Strava and your half time I think you have the talent to BQ. You need to put in the volume over an extended period of time. I think most runners that can handle the mileage without getting hurt can BQ after a year or two of 2,000 miles. 

 

[ChiefD]

@ChiefD - my  

1 - Why are you trying to get into the 130s? Comparing HRs of other runners will just drive you nuts... If you just watched @Juxtatarot on strava, you'd want to toss your HRM in the trash (I swear he's half comatose on his easy runs).  Conversely, we have the hummingbird @Hang 10 who has a 206 max!  I wish we never spoke in terms of bpm and rather spoke in terms of % of max.  There is no magic mileage number or pace to hit to bring your HR down.  Its a simple matter of lots of volume and consistency.  You gotta run a lot and (virtually) all the time....  Not looking to get into the 130's necessarily. Just amazing to see those numbers and realize how different we all are. Just didn't know if those lower HR's were a measure of better efficiency, or just a measure of where a guy is based on his own make-up. So thanks for clarifying that. Makes me feel like I'm right where I need to be for my HR zones.

2 - I started using my HRM seriously in 2011.  I was running low to mid 9's on my "easy" runs (incorrectly) and was in the low 150s.  I didn't start to sniff the 140s until late in my first marathon training cycle.  When I'm in good shape, my easy runs are in the low 8's and under 145.  

3 - All I can say is more volume than you're doing now... Some folks need a ton of mileage (like me) where others are more gifted endurance runners and need less volume.  All you can do is up your volume and see how you respond.  I will say - there's a big difference between training to complete a marathon and training to race a marathon.  I agree with @Juxtatarot - give the Pfitz book a read and try the 18/55.  If you do, you definitely need to get your weekly volume up prior to it.  You should be comfortably around 35-40mpw before starting 18/55, IMO. Yeah, I've read the Pfitz book and this morning starting putting my training calendar together based on the 18/55 plan. As others have suggested also, May will be ramp up month so I don't just jump right in on the higher mileages.

Boston - You need < 3:25 for 45-49yrs old. Sure that's possible with a few solid marathon cycles.  You'll need to dedicate a couple of years to it, IMHO.  It took me from 2011 to 2014 to get from 4:42 to 3:09.

 

[ChiefD]

How much time do you have want to put into your goal? 

One plan would be to increase your mileage through MAF, then hit the Pfitz 18/55 schedule. 

Yeah, there in lies my biggest concern with increasing mileage. I'm going to have to adjust something to fit the time in for now, since I just don't run that fast yet it's going to take more actual time to complete those mileage jumps.

With summer coming, I think the best way for me to accomplish this is to just start waking up at 4:30 and running before work. That way it doesn't affect my family time, which is really important to me. And them.

 

[ChiefD]

@ChiefD You might want to considering running the Pfitz 18/55 schedule this time. I think several of us had a jump in success running that. Or, at least, it was a bridge to future success. Namely (I think) me, Grue, Ned, pbm, Hang 10 and Ivan. Probably others that I'm forgetting.  

One concern is it might be too aggressive for the volume you've been running. If you decide to go down this route, you should start increasing your mileage ASAP as pre-training.

Yeah, this is the plan. I've started putting that training schedule into my calendar this morning, and that gets me to the first of June or so. So May will be a ramp up month if all goes well.