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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
The Iguana
Footballguy
I just want to know the date so I can figure out if it is even an option around my daughter's graduation and my 25th wedding anniversary.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
You can fly out to San Diego this week and pace me for a crash course in all things trail running! I’m sure the wife would be cool with a second straight weekend spent running with magic football interwebs friends.
Yes, the reality of a 100 mile race in 4 days is starting to smack me around a bit......
TripleThreat
Footballguy
congrats and great reads everyone...it looked to be a super awesome experience. I love the camaraderie that a relay builds...
El Floppo
Footballguy
Did the same route this morning. Same result...slightly faster first, slightly slower end.
ETA...family's away this week, so nothing to take care of in the morning...first pre-work morning run in over a decade. Always loved these.
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bushdocda
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I think most of us mainly rested in the shade and tried to stay hydrated.
@gianmarco (with some help from others) made a bunch of small turkey sandwiches on Hawaiian rolls. There were pretzels and other snacks. I don't think most of us ate that much between legs though.
El Floppo
Footballguy
so to speak...
thanks. I've done tris and dus, but never something where I've had to go and then stop for a while before going again... goes back to youth soccer tournaments I guess- but we were clueless back then (or maybe not- we'd stay hydrated and rest in the shade). no idea how my body would react to that... usually warms up as I go along. I'd imagine- for me- that a stationary bike would be useful to keep the legs loose, but not exerted.
gruecd
Footballguy
Yeah, that's about it. I made a point to get up and walk around and do a few strides before each of my legs, but that was about it. Didn't want to waste any excess energy given the heat.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'm gonna guess it's a whole lot different now vs. when we were youth. Us middle ager's don't recover like we did decades ago. No matter how much we try to tell ourselves otherwise. There was a time at a track meet earlier this spring I was reminded that I often was tasked with 4x800, 1600, 800, and 4x400 in the same day. The thought of doing those four events within two hours of each other now made my knees buckle.
gruecd
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
And I think I was the only one that ate a few of the sandwiches AFAIK.
Then again, I was also the only one that did a beet juice shot before my first leg.
MAC_32
Footballguy
There will definitely be a sandwich in between my relay legs next weekend. It probably helps that isn't out of the ordinary for me though. I often have one post lunch lift on days I then run that evening.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I had some as did a few others. That might have happened during your last leg. They were tasty!
Zasada
Footballguy
Yes, come join the dark side (literally, the forests can get dark!). I had a brief shallow fling with street running but at the end of the day the trails are the girl I want to spend the rest of my life with. She may not be as fast as the streets but she will be there for you when you just want to slow down and smell the flowers.
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tri-man 47
Footballguy
After each of my first two legs I ate a couple of Clif bars and one of the small turkey sandwiches. I also drank quite a bit of water and Gatorade. That seemed to be enough. As with the others, most of the time was relaxing in the chair in the shade. I laid down for a bit after my first leg, and power-napped in my chair after my second leg. I'd then do a small warm-up before taking off again.
Having arrived at the site a little after 6 a.m., it was strange how 9 a.m. felt like noon ..and noon felt like 4 or 5 p.m. A fair amount of time was spent worrying about @JShare87's slow death while also being mildly entertained by @gianmarco's post-run fast deaths/collapses. He'd finished his leg, make a bee--line to our site, and just drop. By his third leg, we created a gauntlet of coolers and chairs so he could guide himself straight to his drop zone.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Yeah, but I was good as new after about 5 minutes!
I guess that's my version of puking after crossing the finish line.
Zasada
Footballguy
JShare87
Footballguy
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
that's the one. Just finished a run with the pup and my 9th and final sauna session (over the last 12 days). Forecast is holding steady at mid-70s for the highs, although it'll get a lot warmer than that in Noble Canyon which is around miles 32-44, meaning I'll likely be hitting it right in the heart of the afternoon.
There is live tracking, I'll post that link and upload my pace chart before I leave on Thursday morning.
TripleThreat
Footballguy
crush souls Duck
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I titled my run last night in Strava "Cheated". I went out to the trail at the lake and decided I wanted to run "fast" - my legs felt good and it was a beautiful day that @JShare87 would have loved - think the temp was 85. I started my watch but left Strava on my phone turned off while I did about a mile warmup. Then I ran about 80-90% for as long as I could - when I couldn't run any more I would pause the app and then start it up again once I caught my breath. I tried to keep my "rest" intervals to 30 sec or less - I didn't keep track of how many times I stopped but it was several. Anyway, the goal (just goofing around) was to see how fast it would be and only count the running. I basically ran 3.1 out of about 4.1 miles after my warmup and then I did 2 more miles of jogging/walking - totaled 7.1 miles. Was able to do the 5k distance in 9:37/mi pace - still not close to most of you guys but I was really happy considering I'm old, not a runner and recovering from my leg injury.
I not only feel like a newbie, I really am - but I'm trying to start getting a base and see where it takes me. I'm years and years behind most of you and honestly think I'd rather be like @-OZ- and @JAA and stick to tri's instead of just running but who knows. I'm just happy to be back out and relatively healthy.
I think I need to work on my leg strength and just my general fitness - my breathing isn't too horrible but once I start running my HR skyrockets pretty quickly. I'm guessing I need to do more longer, slower runs??
I not only feel like a newbie, I really am - but I'm trying to start getting a base and see where it takes me. I'm years and years behind most of you and honestly think I'd rather be like @-OZ- and @JAA and stick to tri's instead of just running but who knows. I'm just happy to be back out and relatively healthy.
I think I need to work on my leg strength and just my general fitness - my breathing isn't too horrible but once I start running my HR skyrockets pretty quickly. I'm guessing I need to do more longer, slower runs??
Zasada
Footballguy
I've only been at this fitness thing for 2 years now and only the last year could be deemed meaningful. I'm still as slow as a turtle but improvement came quickly (improving from sloth-like to turtle-like).
When I started running (but had a good hiking base under me), my HR used to skyrocket (150+).
FWIW I had the most success with the longer, slower runs. Especially in this last marathon training cycle. Doing so really improved my HR so that I can now run 10K-20K at a 5:30/km (8:50/mi) pace on flat terrain without my heart rate hitting Z4 (<140).
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Thanks - I absolutely love to go out for a run around the lake or some of the other trails around - not as keen on road running and my neighborhood has some crazy hills. I assumed running long and slow would be good but two problems. My legs seem to hurt less when I run faster - this doesn't make any sense to me. Is this normal? Do your legs feel better running faster? When I force myself to run really slow it's just uncomfortable - maybe I just need to get used to it. Second problem is my fast running is slow so my slow running is like you - sloth-like. I have some time - not as busy nowadays that the kids are older so I can manage it but the slow miles can tend to get tedious.
Zasada
Footballguy
There's a ton of stuff on the web about Maximum Aerobic Function (MAF) training. Basically you run to a heart rate, and speed up as said heart rate allows over time. That's what I did last marathon cycle. My Easy Runs started at a 6:00/km (9:40/mi) pace but by the end of the cycle I was running the same ERs at 5:20/km (8:34/mi). In the mix each week I had some speed work (intervals) which I'm sure helped too. But usually 4 of my 5 weekly runs were slower/easy.
I got better at slow running when I reduced my stride length and increased cadence (176-180 spm). My legs don't hurt more running slow and if this morning is an indication, definitely hurt more when I up the pace a bit. It does feel awkward at first, though.
The nice thing about ERs (for me) is that I don't see them as hard work. I have a standard ~10K route I run which takes me just under an hour. Not too much time, not too much effort, so waking up and getting out there isn't nearly as hard as it is for the longer, 2-hour runs. Or intervals. Or both.
The Iguana
Footballguy
I just started running again recently. When I started last fall, I had similar issues to what you describe with slower running hurting my legs more. Someone here posted something about cadence that was a game changer for me... when I would try to run "easy", I realized that I would stretch out my legs more and landing bugged my knees more. I started to concentrate on always taking smaller strides and that made a world of difference.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Somewhere online I saw the splits for our relay but now I can't find them. Anyone have a link? I wanted to use them to write a race report.
Edit: never mind. Found them.
Edit: never mind. Found them.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
@AAABatteries my starting point was substantially different than our recent n00bs @Zasada, @The Iguana, @gianmarco, etc. but crock potting (long and slow) is the first place to go no matter your own starting point. I "trained" like a moron for 2 decades. I ran in high school then for periods off-and-on until my mid-20's before I started being more consistent again. I ran some pretty good 5K (19 something) and 5 mile (35 something) times in my mid-late 20's, so I made goals to get sub 18 and sub 30 respectively. I continued to train like a moron and after several attempts couldn't quite get over the sub 18 hump (18:18) and never came close to sub 30 (31:32).
So I decided to throw my hat in the ring at something longer distance - running more frequently, longer, and slower . Then amidst long distance training I mixed in some shorter races to break up the monotony - three months of crock potting and I ran a 30:09 five miler, two months later a 17 flat 5K, and two months after that a 16:27 5K. For years the (very patient) crew in here kept saying run more frequently and slow the eff down. So of course I finally broke through when I just listened to them.
Tl;dr - no matter your fitness, step one is more often + slower. And when you think you're ready for step two, you're not. Stay in step one.
So I decided to throw my hat in the ring at something longer distance - running more frequently, longer, and slower . Then amidst long distance training I mixed in some shorter races to break up the monotony - three months of crock potting and I ran a 30:09 five miler, two months later a 17 flat 5K, and two months after that a 16:27 5K. For years the (very patient) crew in here kept saying run more frequently and slow the eff down. So of course I finally broke through when I just listened to them.
Tl;dr - no matter your fitness, step one is more often + slower. And when you think you're ready for step two, you're not. Stay in step one.
Zasada
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
Just FYI, paces aren’t really accurate, as they don’t account for the variance in distance between published and actual.
MAC_32
Footballguy
@Zasada correct me if I'm wrong, but you didn't race during your last marathon training schedule, yes?
If I remember right then schedule one next time on the back end of a step back week. You won't feel race ready then you'll go out and run a whole hell of a lot faster than you thought you could. Others here are a big fan on finding one two weeks in front of the big one, or two-three weeks after. I seem to take longer to recover than them, so I look for mine at midpoints.
If I remember right then schedule one next time on the back end of a step back week. You won't feel race ready then you'll go out and run a whole hell of a lot faster than you thought you could. Others here are a big fan on finding one two weeks in front of the big one, or two-three weeks after. I seem to take longer to recover than them, so I look for mine at midpoints.
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pbm107
Footballguy
When I was first starting out the 3-5 miles a week were much tougher on my body than my higher mileage weeks are now. I was just so badly out of shape, my ankles were always hurting. Try to be patient, we all know from your weight loss journey that you have the mental makeup to be a runner if that's what you want.
Zasada
Footballguy
No, I did race. I scheduled two. One 10K and one 15K trail. The latter got canceled due to weather but the 10K went off as planned. It was my first 10K race ever and while I went out too fast, I did PR (vs my best Strava estimated 10K) with a 46:43 time. It was the only time I ran <5:00/km (<8:00/mi) for any meaningful distance during my training and I was a little surprised that I could run the pace I did for 10K. @gianmarco called it well in advance, though.
Three weeks before my Houston marathon I went out to try to PR a local trail loop (that always kicks me in the nuts), and succeeded. But I believe that was not a good idea for me, as it was too much strain so close to the race. This cycle I put the 10K much closer to the beginning.
This morning I went out planning to run slow but my aspirations got the best of me and I picked up the pace through the end. Finished with a 10K pace that was close to my PR in March with less effort. Pretty sure I could have run <46:00 had I been trying from the start. And that was with a nagging glute strain I've had bugging me since the marathon. So to your point, I definitely have improved in fitness & speed over the course of this cycle.
I'd sign up for another short/speed race but I have my first Ultra in just over three weeks and don't want to overdo it. Trying to manage recovering from my marathon while not losing fitness before my Ultra. A balance I'm finding to be a bit difficult (this morning being an example of that, should have stuck with the slow run).
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MAC_32
Footballguy
It's a never ending battle. Keeping the priority race(s) first, but wanting to check other boxes while at peak fitness too. I'm just glad to read I'm not the only one with longer recovery timelines. I've felt like the outlier around here in that regard.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Thanks @pbm107 - that means a lot. I’ve struggled with my weight for years (as an adult) and only recently feel like I may finally have that under control. Your words inspire me to give it a shot - thank you!
bushdocda
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
The answer here is almost always yes.
I love tri, and I feel much better training for them than marathons.
But, I do think a good trail, by a lake or mountain, like duck or the other guy here (don't remember names but I like Strava stalking him) is simply amazing.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Not by a long stretch.
You are among the fastest MFers getting/needing more recovery, which makes you an even bigger badass.
The Iguana
Footballguy
Slower runs are something I think about and something @gianmarco keeps trying to encourage me to do but I seem to go out and run in the same time range all the time. My "slow pace" ends up being no more than a minute/mile slower than my 1/2 marathon race pace. That puts my HR higher than it "should be" for an easy run but that's the pace (or faster) that is "fun" to run.
Right now I have nothing imminent scheduled so I feel ok "pushing it" just to see what I can do but one of these days soon I'm going to have to figure out what my training should really look like when I start getting ready for found the full marathon in November.
So far all of my "programming" had been done by making some minor tweaks to stuff I've found online. It had worked out om but not sure what I "should be" doing differently. We actually have a trainer on staff at work that I have talked to some that I should try to sit down with at some point. That said, I'm all ears if anyone here has some thoughts.
Right now I have nothing imminent scheduled so I feel ok "pushing it" just to see what I can do but one of these days soon I'm going to have to figure out what my training should really look like when I start getting ready for found the full marathon in November.
So far all of my "programming" had been done by making some minor tweaks to stuff I've found online. It had worked out om but not sure what I "should be" doing differently. We actually have a trainer on staff at work that I have talked to some that I should try to sit down with at some point. That said, I'm all ears if anyone here has some thoughts.
bushdocda
Footballguy
I’m another one of the slow mile believers and followers of pace chart/guidance that keeps easy runs more like 2 mins/mile slower than HM pace. While you’re managing some minor stuff and building base, either an 80/20 easy to hard ratio might make sense or if you want to adhere to HR stuff a MAF approach until you decide on marathon programming. Both should support increase in run frequency and mileage ahead of the training plan you select.The Iguana said:
bushdocda
Footballguy
140 miles in May (60 less than June) with a few days off post race and off peak weeks. Will get back to ~160 in June and figure out which 5ks I want to key on this summer. Heading to Mexico in a few weeks so not sure whether I race one prior or wait until later in July for first one. Probably the latter.
MAC_32
Footballguy
As I wrote last month, “try to come as close to April as possible, but if I fall short and it’s due to racing – all good.” And that’s exactly what happened. Mileage dropped from the 180’s to 158 and total exercise time dropped from 32 hours back to 30.5. I’m curious how deep into the 180’s I got weight-wise, but whatever progress made was undone last weekend. I waited until today for the monthly check-up to ensure most of the bad food and alcohol got flushed out of my system. 188 and 13.3% body fat – about the same spot. But most importantly, crushed the race and finally checked that sub 30 five miler box. And we’re onto June…
…and I’ll be thrilled if I get to the other side of June in the same place I am now. Leave for vacation Friday and we relay race next Saturday. My feet/heels are 95% recovered from late May’s race, but I wonder how they’ll respond to the relay. Cause consistency won’t happen until whenever they’re ready again. So I suppose similar output to last month would be a success, but prepare for less. So - have a good race, total exercise time in hours starting with a “3,” don’t gain weight/body fat, and get to the end of the month healthy.
gruecd
Footballguy
Still debating whether or not to write a race report for the relay last weekend. In all honesty, pretty much everything that needs to be said has already been said. @gianmarco great guy and absolutely amazing host, gutty performances by him, @ChiefD, and especially @JShare87, the veteran savvy of @tri-man 47, and fun duking it out in the sun with @Juxtatarot to see who could run fastest. Total selflessness from @Brony in helping out with everything. With regard to my battle with Juxt, he had an unfair advantage with me going first and giving him something to shoot for. 
Took Sunday off after the long car ride home and then a bunch of yard work. Did a 7/3 double on Monday, 10 yesterday afternoon, and a slow 5-mile recovery run this morning. The wife and I are doing a 5K tomorrow night, and as long as my legs feel OK and it's not too hot, I'll probably race. She and I are also going to be co-Angels for a 10K with myTeamTriumph on Saturday morning.
Took Sunday off after the long car ride home and then a bunch of yard work. Did a 7/3 double on Monday, 10 yesterday afternoon, and a slow 5-mile recovery run this morning. The wife and I are doing a 5K tomorrow night, and as long as my legs feel OK and it's not too hot, I'll probably race. She and I are also going to be co-Angels for a 10K with myTeamTriumph on Saturday morning.
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pbm107
Footballguy
I know we are all in different phases of our running careers and in the past (2012-2017) the summer meant long and slow for me.
Last year I made a change and switched to 5k training for the summer months and I was quite pleased with the results. Without embracing the treadmill I don’t think this approach would have worked for me.
Looking back on my running history I wish I had taken this approach back in 2016-2017 as I really struggled those summers. I am at the point now where I lose too much fitness when I go long stretches without running quality workouts.
MAC_32
Footballguy
All of this is true, but there's one thing I want to draw from this to where @The Iguana is now. You wish you had done more speed work in 2016-17, but that's four years after you started doing long and slow. Hypothetically speaking, if he were to follow your timeline then he won't be in that spot til 2023.
Ultimately, what's right for him long term?
Not something any of us, including himself, can answer now nor anytime soon. But I feel fairly strongly about what's optimal for him right now. I think there is a rather substantial fitness jump once getting into the 20's then another in the 30's. I experienced it myself and have seen it countless times with others in here. I'm undecided on beyond that, but those two jumps have at least appeared universal. The weekly consistency from late January to early April in the 25-30 mpw range was a great start and what led to the success at Carmel. And I think now's the time to build that up to the 35-40 mpw range. Since you can't build quantity and quality at the same time focus on the quantity for the next few weeks then re-assess.
pbm107
Footballguy
I agree with you, but I am also more unsure these days on what I would recommend to a runner in @The Iguana's position.All of this is true, but there's one thing I want to draw from this to where @The Iguana is now. You wish you had done more speed work in 2016-17, but that's four years after you started doing long and slow. Hypothetically speaking, if he were to follow your timeline then he won't be in that spot til 2023.
Ultimately, what's right for him long term?
The weekly consistency from late January to early April in the 25-30 mpw range was a great start and what led to the success at Carmel. And I think now's the time to build that up to the 35-40 mpw range. Since you can't build quantity and quality at the same time focus on the quantity for the next few weeks then re-assess.
