Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Ran a 10k - Official Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
MAC_32
Footballguy
A number you've only topped 5 times before - 3 when you were marathon training last winter. Good job
Last edited by a moderator:
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
My January ends with 179 miles. I did 226 last year and 215 in 2018.
I'm trying to carefully manage this hip as I get stronger and stronger so my mileage (and motivation) is down. Admittedly, I'm hoping to start February strong with probably 50 miles in the first four days as the weather will be optimal.
Its awesome to see so many people improving.
I'm trying to carefully manage this hip as I get stronger and stronger so my mileage (and motivation) is down. Admittedly, I'm hoping to start February strong with probably 50 miles in the first four days as the weather will be optimal.
Its awesome to see so many people improving.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Well, I did 157 in December. But yeah, still a big increase.
My body feels better than ever. Truly. So far only once this month was I feeling any cumulative fatigue and it was on the heels of 5 HMP miles/10 mile run/7 mile treadmill run. I took that Monday off after that and was back to normal by the middle of the week.
Otherwise, I feel quite fresh. I don't think I appreciated it enough until looking this morning, but I just did back to back 10 mile runs for the first time ever. And that one a couple days ago was with some "pace". Despite that, I still feel good this morning. I've been trying to be smart about my runs, doing a slow/shorter recovery run at any hint of fatigue or following really long runs. I haven't really done speed except some occasional stuff toward the end of runs. I'm rotating shoes. And I feel like I'm running more efficiently and easier as well.
In the past, when I was doing the Higdon base plan in preparation for the relay race (and my HM last year), those runs of 9+ miles would tire me out. I'd feel fatigued the rest of the day (I would particularly notice it at work that night) and into the next day. Now, having increased the frequency of long runs, running 11-13 miles is just like any other run.
I've considered whether to incorporate a step back week but honestly my body hasn't been asking for it. So as long as things cooperate, especially with this weather, I'm going to just keep doing what I'm doing. I mentioned this already, but I do think I've done this long enough now to have a good idea when my body is saying "uncle". If anything, my legs are sometimes asking to pick up the pace more but I've been holding back. For the entire month of January, only 2 runs have had an "8" in front of my overall pace. I'm making sure I avoid that gray zone of not running slow enough to keep it aerobic and not running fast enough to gain any anaerobic benefit.
gruecd
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
More along the lines of my above post:
1) Yesterday I initially intended to just go out and run an easy few miles after our faster 10 mile run on Wednesday. But, as I got started, I felt really good and my HR was surprisingly low (low 130s) so I decided to keep it as an MAF run. As I kept on going, it was just really comfortable and the HR stayed there that I just Forrest Gump'd my plan and "I just felt like running". So I kept on going. What was going to be a 5-6 mile run turned into 11 somehow. That was not intentional at all.
2) While on that run, I started thinking about our run the day before. We still haven't technically started our marathon training, just the training to do the training. But while out there, I think we were enjoying increasing the pace with the new shoes on the snow and ultimately locked into close to MP pace and did that for 8 miles. Goal MP is 8:40 for her to BQ and we ran ~8:49 pace for those 8 miles. Which got me wondering what's a good goal to ultimately feel confident that she has a realistic shot at pulling this off. I know just finishing the 26.2 is going to be the biggest challenge never having done one before.
But, if we can do, say 12 miles at goal MP? or 14? What would be a good number to eventually aim for to say "yeah, if you can do this, you've got a good chance to hit that mark"? Because, honestly, that run wasn't that difficult for either of us. In fact, we both wanted to keep running but didn't have the time to do anymore (got a late start). I have no doubt we could have done another 3-4 miles at that pace without too much difficulty.
Or, conversely, would we benefit more from trying to do 8-10 miles at something like 10 seconds faster than MP pace?
1) Yesterday I initially intended to just go out and run an easy few miles after our faster 10 mile run on Wednesday. But, as I got started, I felt really good and my HR was surprisingly low (low 130s) so I decided to keep it as an MAF run. As I kept on going, it was just really comfortable and the HR stayed there that I just Forrest Gump'd my plan and "I just felt like running". So I kept on going. What was going to be a 5-6 mile run turned into 11 somehow. That was not intentional at all.
2) While on that run, I started thinking about our run the day before. We still haven't technically started our marathon training, just the training to do the training. But while out there, I think we were enjoying increasing the pace with the new shoes on the snow and ultimately locked into close to MP pace and did that for 8 miles. Goal MP is 8:40 for her to BQ and we ran ~8:49 pace for those 8 miles. Which got me wondering what's a good goal to ultimately feel confident that she has a realistic shot at pulling this off. I know just finishing the 26.2 is going to be the biggest challenge never having done one before.
But, if we can do, say 12 miles at goal MP? or 14? What would be a good number to eventually aim for to say "yeah, if you can do this, you've got a good chance to hit that mark"? Because, honestly, that run wasn't that difficult for either of us. In fact, we both wanted to keep running but didn't have the time to do anymore (got a late start). I have no doubt we could have done another 3-4 miles at that pace without too much difficulty.
Or, conversely, would we benefit more from trying to do 8-10 miles at something like 10 seconds faster than MP pace?
MAC_32
Footballguy
bushdocda
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
I don't understand, are you asking me this? If so, what do you mean?
And I know we aren't there yet. I'm not planning on going for that "goal" until at least a couple months into actual marathon training. But if that number is 12 MP miles, for example, I want to make sure we don't attempt anything like that too early if we aren't ready for it. I'm trying to think back to when you guys have done cycles and I don't think I remember ever seeing more than 12-14 miles at MP pace. Of course, things might be different for us given significantly slower pace and lack of experience ever doing 26.2.
I guess another way/reason I'm asking for it is, when you guys are training, I think the biggest thing is finding your right racing pace. For us, I worry less about the goal pace and more about the total distance.
MAC_32
Footballguy
The focus has been on accumulating volume, but how much more volume are you accumulating? I think your current MP goals may be too soft, but hesitate recommending testing those limits until you're at least within eyesight of the training volume.
ChiefD
Footballguy
It's hard to tell, especially for newbies like us. There is a lot of trial and error involved with this.
I'm a perfect example: I set my HM goal at 7:36/mile for this spring. I intended to run that last night and ended up running a 7:59 for 4 miles. So I have some work to do yet, and may need to readjust that goal depending on how the next few weeks go.
If her goal is Boston, figure out that pace and go out and run 10 miles at that pace and see how it feels. See how her heart rate responds.
The way you guys are going I think you both are going to crush your expectations. You are laying an awesome base right now.
bushdocda
Footballguy
bushdocda
Footballguy
Ended up on the receiving end of a race email at the Guinness brewery nearby - yeah weird af that distribution and now North American brewing happens in a big way outside Baltimore 
Anyway, flat, brewery start/end 5k April 18 added to calendar and workouts now being backed into.
Anyway, flat, brewery start/end 5k April 18 added to calendar and workouts now being backed into.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
If you guys are comfortably running marathon pace before your official training even starts, that's incredibly encouraging. These days, I NEVER feel comfortable at marathon pace during training.
As far as pushing the pace, I think it's a good idea if you feel up to it. Maybe not plan to do it but if it seems to be happening naturally, roll with it.
gianmarco
Footballguy
My marathon training volume is going to be about the same as I'm running now (35-40mpw). The only difference will be adding speed work/tempo runs each week. Quantity same, add quality. Plan on doing this starting in about 6 weeks.
She's going to do the Hanson's beginner marathon plan. Volume for that is closer to 50 mpw for most of it. Flipside is that she's had the volume for a little longer than me and has already started to do quality. So, similarly, I'll think she'll be ok as it's only a slight increase in volume/quality overall. She's hit 40mpw for 6 weeks in a row.
There's no chance we're going to try and run at a faster MP than needed for her to BQ. Not for our first race. The new standard for her is 3:50. If she aims for 3:47, that's 8:39 pace. If she aims for 3:45, that's 8:35 pace. It's going to be in that range. If anything, plan 8:40 for 20 miles and then let it go at the end. I've seen this movie enough times to know what happens if she goes out too fast.
That's also why I'm not trying to go crazy for the HM coming up next month. You guys all said that the HM is going to be the best predictor of her marathon time. Right now, her best time is 8:28 min/mile. So, instead of going for a HM PR and potentially blowing up and not getting the information needed, we're going to run it smart. Per the calculator, if she can run a sub 1:48 HM (8:14 pace), then that translates to a 3:45 marathon. No matter how good it feels, we're doing 10 miles at 8:15 and then will let it go the last 5K. It'll also help with the discipline of locking in a pace for a race even if it feels easy. She has yet to ever negative split a race.
Last edited by a moderator:
pbm107
Footballguy
I really like this approach, hopefully she'll be able to pick up the pace quite a bit at the end of the half.
The Iguana
Footballguy
Not to disparage @gianmarco, but I think there's a huge difference between him running at "MP" and you running at MP! As everyone correctly kept pointing out to me, the marathon doesn't start until the final 10K and when you haven't run one before, you have no idea what you are in for until you get there.
I think it is hugely encouraging the paces they are running and the distances. I think they each probably have a higher ceiling than the current pace/plan, but that doesn't mean it's wise to shoot for "too high". I think I had a realistic goal trying for 3:40, but was also warned that I might not be ready for it - I had a chance at it, but that last 10K was quite the bastage, IMO.
For me, running some long and longer runs at or near MP is a good thing - total confidence booster for the 2 of them and will pay off huge between now and race day. But that's just my novice opinion.
The Iguana
Footballguy
i.e. @Juxtatarot or @gruecd and others are trying to squeeze every bit of ability out of themselves to PR a marathon. @gianmarco and the Mrs. will be doing it the for the first time and it's a whole different ballgame, imo.
Last edited by a moderator:
Zasada
Footballguy
Yeah, through all of my training, and even still, MP is easy for me for 30km. MP becomes oppressively hard after that distance.
Luke Hanson mentioned this as well, that for 4-hour marathoners (me), long run and MP paces are essentially the same.
The Iguana
Footballguy
There's nothing to cry about @gianmarco. Mostly just "the more you know", IMO - just have to be prepared. I am fully confident the 2 of you have the ability to crush this. It's just a matter of doing the work to build both up both your physical and mental preparedness. In here I was given a "healthy dose of fear", "healthy dose" being the key words - you don't want too much of it, but you don't want to underestimate the endeavor either.
Put in the miles, do the work, trust the process. You will crush it! Just don't ever take it for granted - or granite.
Put in the miles, do the work, trust the process. You will crush it! Just don't ever take it for granted - or granite.
JAA
Footballguy
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Me too.116 for me
Missed most of a week due to a bad cold, but generally not trying to push anything right now or stress about the mileage. @gianmarco, you and the mrs. are running great. You're seeing the benefits of more mileage. So dammit, man, relax and enjoy it! Who knows, at this very early juncture, what either of you are fully capable of? Maybe you're selling her (and yourself) short. Maybe she's got an 8:30/mile pace in her less a mild fade at the end. I'm eager to find out! ...but willing to wait.
PS: As my wife talked about a possible trip to Naples FL in March to visit one of her girlfriends, I casually through out the idea of me visiting Washington in late July to run with some of my friends. I only got light resistance ...
gianmarco
Footballguy
I'm actually quite relaxed. I'm enjoying where I am right now quite a bit and in the best spot I've been both physically and mentally related to running than I've ever been.Me too.
@gianmarco, you and the mrs. are running great. You're seeing the benefits of more mileage. So dammit, man, relax and enjoy it! Who knows, at this very early juncture, what either of you are fully capable of? Maybe you're selling her (and yourself) short. Maybe she's got an 8:30/mile pace in her less a mild fade at the end. I'm eager to find out! ...but willing to wait.
PS: As my wife talked about a possible trip to Naples FL in March to visit one of her girlfriends, I casually through out the idea of me visiting Washington in late July to run with some of my friends. I only got light resistance ...
I also have a pretty clear plan and idea for the next few months with the ability to adjust as needed. I'm not changing that approach just because of the questions I'm asking here. I also understand that we may be capable of even more when the time comes, but even with that being the case, there's a very specific goal here and there will be time in the future to push the envelope to reach that if the ceiling is higher.
My biggest worry will remain until the day after the race. The final 6.2 miles. I've read enough here to know to respect that and will be the thing that keeps me on track for the next several months. I'm also looking forward to it.
And, great news. Would love to have you there when we cross that finish line for the first time as our feet will undoubtedly be really sore.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
You'll always be first in my heart, but you'll be second in that line. SteelCurtain
Footballguy
Too early on the pace determination. Just keep running. You need to build that base. The Half marathon time is the big predictor. Being able to run 14 miles at MP is no big deal. Quite frankly, being able to run 20 miles at MP isn't a big deal. Its what are you prepared for in that final 10K. That's where the race dreams are made and shattered.
Also, you need to learn nutrition and how to get it in you while running a marathon.
The marathon is a beast and I'm not sure I know too many people who get it right their first time. Heck...I've run close to 20 marathons and I always find stuff I could do better. But that's what makes it so addicting.
Last edited by a moderator:
MAC_32
Footballguy
@gianmarco I'm not saying plan to train for a 3:40. I'm saying don't rule it out. Since you have so much time before the race you have time to experiment now. Most don't get comfortable with MP at their expected volume until near the end of their program. You're doing it before you even start! And even if it is too vigorous you'll still reap the fitness gains. But if you can comfortably go in with some contingency built in that'd maximize the chance of a BQ in the debut.
Last edited by a moderator:
gianmarco
Footballguy
Thanks. This is how I was thinking as well. I'm glad she's doing Hanson's so that she will be as prepared as possible for the whole thing. Trust the process and all that.
There is a long run in our near future (stay tuned!!) and will be our first practice at nutrition mid-run. I actually sent her an email today with this link. I wish there was a good way a could carry a few apples with me. That's what I've had as a mid run snack for our last couple longer runs (one apple) and just eat it while running.
There are some things on that list that look good to try. But anyway, that's my next objective. Thanks for mentioning it and was already planning on tackling it.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Man, if I had that stuff I'd be a salad shooter for the rest of that race. Are they serious with that list?
gianmarco
Footballguy
I'm probably going to try the mashed up bananas and the raisins. Maybe bread/honey/jam sandwich in a Ziploc too.Man, if I had that stuff I'd be a salad shooter for the rest of that race. Are they serious with that list?
I'm lucky in that I incredibly rarely get an upset stomach. I'll tolerate most anything I think.
Last edited by a moderator:
MAC_32
Footballguy
Good idea, I'm going to try this. I was on the struggle bus late with my nutrition today. Even with pre run fueling (apple, banana, pretzels) I can't long run on just dum-dum's, fruit snacks, and water. I need more calories.
Last edited by a moderator:
tri-man 47
Footballguy
I like the bananas approach. They're easy enough to carry and they mash-in-the-mouth quite comfortably. Apples would worry me. Besides the need to chew, I'd inevitably get a piece of the skin caught between my teeth and that would drive me nuts. But I've always been fine with the gu's.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Sharpen the handle of your dum-dum and you could use it to spear bites of sandwich from the Ziploc. No muss; no fuss.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Yeah, I know number of calories is going to be the biggest issue. I just want bang for the buck. I can shove a mashed up jam/honey sandwich in my mouth in one bite. It won't be pretty, but who cares.
I've never liked GUs. The chews are OK, but I'd rather feel more satisfied. I'm thinking occasional handful of raisins, Banana at 5, sandwich at 10, banana at 15, sandwich at 20. 4 ziplocks tucked into the flipbelt. Hit every water station.
The one thing I'm interested in looking into that I've seen some of you mention is Tailwind. But not sure it's even necessary.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I might be on an island by myself on this opinion, but I think the most important part of a marathon is 13.1 through 20. This is where marathon dreams are truly lost. If you start struggling badly and/or bonk here, the final 6.2 miles don't matter. They will be a #### show regardless. You can't always just tough it out.
It's this beginning of the end when you have to be able to read your body and have an idea on how much you have left. Ideally, you should adjust accordingly - should you slow? Could you speed up? Stay the course? In all the marathons I performed poorly in, I ignored the early signs before the inevitable. Of course, this is harder to judge for your first marathon since you don't have the experience and memory of past races to guide you. Pushing yourself on training runs (in pace and/or distance) can help though.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Check me on this, but I don't think it's legal to reclassify to the Clydesdale division mid-marathon.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Are you good at chewing while running? I find that very annoying.
In the UK half marathon you posted a link to a few weeks ago, did you notice they were giving out freeze pops? Those would be awesome on a hot day.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Doesn't bother me at all. I've been chomping on an apple a few times already without a problem. Usually takes me a mile to finish it. Of course, I'm not running as fast as you do so that may be part of it.
Yes, the freeze pops looked awesome. I thought that was brilliant.
ChiefD
Footballguy
JShare87
Footballguy
pbm107
Footballguy
I think the most important miles are 1-13.1, this where mistakes can happen and you’re capable of running faster than one should. 13.1-20 is where your likely trying to maintain what you decided to go with in the 1st half. We all know what happens when you have to start working too hard in this stretch, the transition from denial to acceptance of one’s fate can be real dark.
gruecd
Footballguy
I'm not good at it either. I have a really hard time breathing through my nose, so to eat/chew while exercising is really hard for me.
Last edited by a moderator:
gianmarco
Footballguy
I think the most important miles are the 600 miles in running from March to July leading up to the first 13 miles leading into 13.1 to 20 and then finally the last 6.2.
MAC_32
Footballguy
