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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
Harris
Footballguy
Not sure if I can take your advice right now @tri-man 47 for fear of near-term sabotage...
Technically I just need to shave 4 minutes off to drop under 3:05 but that likely won't get me a spot with everyone having faster times. Overall marathoning goal in my life is to get to a time that starts with a 2, which would check both Boston and marathon goals before I start to dabble in some ultras
I know that just means putting in the miles and more speedwork over the next six months before Paris, but anything else that helped in your trainings would be useful!
Zasada
Footballguy
Could have run this morning (stayed south this weekend, so no early flight), but decided against it. Almost all of last week I spent just "checking the box". Couldn't run at a pace that felt meaningful, because my glues/groin were just too sore. Not sore enough to stay home, but not healthy enough to run with any kind of power (for me).
This 2,500mi challenge really has me motivated to get out, but I also think it might be burning me out. I've run more over the last three months than any prior three month period (by far), but I still don't feel as fit/fast as I did in Aug/Sep of last year. Back then, I was more on a 5x weekly program when I could get SoS runs in on Wed & Sat. Now, even though I get 6 weekly runs in, with more volume, the SoS isn't there. 25km on Saturday really felt like work (HR is fantastic, but glutes/groin grumbled the whole way).
This run in October was just so awesome (for me). Might be the best run of my entire (short) running career. Things with my butt really got bad after that, which had me take the majority of 4-5 weeks off. But I want to get back to that. Is the 5x weekly plan I was running in the weeks/months prior better than what I'm doing now? Right now, I can't even imagine holding that pace and distance...
As usual, I'm just posting to whine a bit. And maybe talk myself into 5x weekly instead of 6x.
But I love that 2,500mi goal...
This 2,500mi challenge really has me motivated to get out, but I also think it might be burning me out. I've run more over the last three months than any prior three month period (by far), but I still don't feel as fit/fast as I did in Aug/Sep of last year. Back then, I was more on a 5x weekly program when I could get SoS runs in on Wed & Sat. Now, even though I get 6 weekly runs in, with more volume, the SoS isn't there. 25km on Saturday really felt like work (HR is fantastic, but glutes/groin grumbled the whole way).
This run in October was just so awesome (for me). Might be the best run of my entire (short) running career. Things with my butt really got bad after that, which had me take the majority of 4-5 weeks off. But I want to get back to that. Is the 5x weekly plan I was running in the weeks/months prior better than what I'm doing now? Right now, I can't even imagine holding that pace and distance...
As usual, I'm just posting to whine a bit. And maybe talk myself into 5x weekly instead of 6x.
But I love that 2,500mi goal...
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JShare87
Footballguy
I appreciate your thoughts. I didn’t want any pain meds at the hospital and haven’t taken any. Feeling great. Been doing PT on my own everyday. Started when I got home from surgery. Going to head out for a mile walk today. Anticipated 5K time already down to 18
x from the original 24:00. 6th pick of the draft!?!? We’ll see about that. 
Brony
Footballguy
I forgot that you were the guy who ran a marathon with one knee.I appreciate your thoughts. I didn’t want any pain meds at the hospital and haven’t taken any. Feeling great. Been doing PT on my own everyday. Started when I got home from surgery. Going to head out for a mile walk today. Anticipated 5K time already down to 18
Great to hear about the recovery GB!
MAC_32
Footballguy
Remember all of the things you have said before about things you wish you would have done differently so you stayed healthy. Sometimes our greatest strengths are also our greatest weaknesses. You have a unique ability to endure despite unfathomable amounts of pain and discomfort. That trait has also played a major role in your inability to stay healthy.I appreciate your thoughts. I didn’t want any pain meds at the hospital and haven’t taken any. Feeling great. Been doing PT on my own everyday. Started when I got home from surgery. Going to head out for a mile walk today. Anticipated 5K time already down to 18
I think you're likely capable of something faster than 24:00 in a couple weeks. I also think you'd be making a stupid mistake going for something as aggressive s 18:XX. I get that given your various ailments your running life is already going to come with limits. And you have the talent to run (quite a bit?) faster than that...eventually. But you have to make smarter decisions between now and whenever that is. Forcing the issue before your body is ready will only shorten that running shelf life and inevitably develop other injuries along the way.
JShare87
Footballguy
So scared of defeat. Worry about team @Juxtatarot.
(Just kidding. Everything you said is true, I’ll take it easy)
gianmarco
Footballguy
To piggyback on this, I've already sent an email to my team members but figured I owed it to team Juxt to post here as well.
With springtime coming, allergies, and warmer temps, you guys need to be careful out there. I wouldn't be shooting for anything near where your PR is for any of these races. We simply haven't had the time to adjust for that and when you overdo it in an otherwise non-race environment, you're setting yourself up to get really hurt and cause long term harm. This goes for workouts and overall mileage as well.
Be safe and drop things 10 to-15% before anyone really hurts themselves in this competition that really doesn't mean much in the long run. Look at the big picture.
Stay safe out there, Team Juxt.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
What I feel was the biggest help in my marathon last summer/fall (leading to a PR in torrential rains) was hill work, particularly some intense hill work (such as some serious hills during a trip to SF). This seemed to strengthen my abductors/adductors to an extent I don't recall before. Even during some 800m intervals last week, I sensed the limitation was the lack of leg strength. When I ran a hilly course a few days ago, I could really feel the effect.Technically I just need to shave 4 minutes off to drop under 3:05 but that likely won't get me a spot with everyone having faster times. Overall marathoning goal in my life is to get to a time that starts with a 2, which would check both Boston and marathon goals before I start to dabble in some ultras
I know that just means putting in the miles and more speedwork over the next six months before Paris, but anything else that helped in your trainings would be useful!
So how do you run hills in Paris? I'd say you should make regular visits to Butte Montmartre. The Montmartre district (~2 km from your place?) has lots of undulation, and the primary hill itself has some serious pitch. Not to mention that district is a very cool place to hang out!
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
I know everyone has different opinions on this, but I was thinking about your post during my run today. I've definitely kept on the lower end volume-wise over the years, and partly that's a life balance and avoiding burnout choice and partly it's because I have a hard time paying close enough attention to minor protestations of my body to know that it is time to back off. So, I've had a couple of occasions of ramping up volume and then starting SoS stuff thinking I've acclimated to the volume when apparently I haven't, and then I have a setback.
I think it dovetails nicely with what Mac was saying - you have to be honest about what your personal failure mechanism is going to tend to be. For probably most people, it's skipping runs for no good reason or skimping on volume for more fun doing races, etc., and that's why you predominately see advice about increasing mileage all over the place, because everything else being equal that's good advice for most folks. But the pendulum can definitely swing too far to when people are doing SoS when they shouldn't or running ill or injured in a misguided attempt to get all the benefits of volumey goodness. It's one of the reasons I've never done a set plan, because I know if the calendar says I need to do a workout on a given day, I am going to do it unless I'm basically bedridden, and that's not a good attitude to have.
So, probably more stream of consciousness rambling than good advice, but the bottom line is you know you better than anyone else does, so if you're being honest and clearheaded in your self-appraisal, you will come to the right decision.
gianmarco
Footballguy
I'm all for setting goals and going after them.
This one seems really, really forced and I think is working to your detriment at this point. Which I hate to see given how much you've progressed leading up until this point.
MAC_32
Footballguy
with a 'but.'That 'but' (not to be confused with butt) being I think you @Zasada may just need a brief reset. @pbm107 and others have talked about this many times before, but it is difficult to stay 'on' for extended periods of time. You have been 'on' since (sorta?) recovering from that late fall injury - three straight months over 200 miles and eight straight weeks of 50 miles plus. I think you'll be surprised to see what sort of shape you are actually in if you just take a step back for a week or two. You just can't see it right now because your body is in a state of stress. So...de-stress. Cause in running you can't always be rising. You won't know until you're on the other side of it, but you may even emerge being able to withstand a higher mpw than you have been.
JShare87
Footballguy
I know I give you a hard time, but you sure do an awesome job of researching and actually caring about everyone’s situation. You’re a BMF for that.
That 'but' (not to be confused with butt) being I think you @Zasada may just need a brief reset. @pbm107 and others have talked about this many times before, but it is difficult to stay 'on' for extended periods of time. You have been 'on' since (sorta?) recovering from that late fall injury - three straight months over 200 miles and eight straight weeks of 50 miles plus. I think you'll be surprised to see what sort of shape you are actually in if you just take a step back for a week or two. You just can't see it right now because your body is in a state of stress. So...de-stress. Cause in running you can't always be rising. You won't know until you're on the other side of it, but you may even emerge being able to withstand a higher mpw than you have been.
MAC_32
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
Speaking of this really, really "forced" goal:
2500 Mile Challenge (its day 90 of 366 days - 24.59% of the year complete - to be on pace would be at 615 miles completed as of today)
@pbm107- 591 miles
@gruecd - 689 miles (plus 10 on tap for this afternoon)
@MAC_32 - 684 miles
@Zasada - 644 miles
@SteelCurtain - 451 miles
2500 Mile Challenge (its day 90 of 366 days - 24.59% of the year complete - to be on pace would be at 615 miles completed as of today)
@pbm107- 591 miles
@gruecd - 689 miles (plus 10 on tap for this afternoon)
@MAC_32 - 684 miles
@Zasada - 644 miles
@SteelCurtain - 451 miles
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SteelCurtain
Footballguy
I'm not dropping out yet, but I've got a long way to go to get back in this thing.
My work life is in a tailspin with Coronavirus and the weather has been dreadful. Hopefully a month from now, worklife feels more stable and Mother Nature can give me some nice warm mornings to run. In the meantime, I'll just keep grinding at my miles.
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Zasada
Footballguy
Thanks for this. And all the research you do for everyone here.
That 'but' (not to be confused with butt) being I think you @Zasada may just need a brief reset. @pbm107 and others have talked about this many times before, but it is difficult to stay 'on' for extended periods of time. You have been 'on' since (sorta?) recovering from that late fall injury - three straight months over 200 miles and eight straight weeks of 50 miles plus. I think you'll be surprised to see what sort of shape you are actually in if you just take a step back for a week or two. You just can't see it right now because your body is in a state of stress. So...de-stress. Cause in running you can't always be rising. You won't know until you're on the other side of it, but you may even emerge being able to withstand a higher mpw than you have been.
I think I still might be able to hold 50mpw if I can just find a way to motivate myself to run 20Ks on Wednesdays again. When I was in my happy place of training (which did precede my glute problem, and might have caused it, admittedly), I was running 5x weekly: Rest Mon, 10K ER Tue, 20K SoS Wed, 10K ER Thu, Rest Fri, 20K+ SoS Sat, 10K ER Sun. With rounding, it got me to about 80K/week. I was just killing it on those midweek 20Ks for a few weeks straight. Then when I moved to DFW, I dropped the midweek 20K down to 10K, but added a 10K day. And been in that rut ever since.
I just see you, @gruecd, @pbm107, & @Juxtatarot running 7x weekly and think I'm just being a pooosay by burning out at 6x weekly, on lower total overall volume as well.
My right glute is mostly better, but my left glute has deteriorated. And my groin is giving me grief for the last month or two. Don't even know how to describe that pain. Even hurts when I cough. Again, not causing a limp (which my glute did at its worst in Oct last year), but enough to keep me from feeling like I can do anything more than easy pace.
I haven't run on truly fresh legs in quite some time. I took today off and I'm thinking about taking tomorrow off as well. Then maybe get back into my Wed 20K habit and switch back to 5x weekly from there.
Thanks for letting me "think aloud". Sometimes just typing this stuff gets me to think better.
I want to make sure I have a great 5K in three weeks! Go TeamJuxt!
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gruecd
Footballguy
Typically just 6 days per week for me, too, unless I'm in a serious training block. I typically try to do SoS on Wednesday, rest Thursday, easy run on Friday, and long Saturday.
Zasada
Footballguy
Oh, and while I'm disappointed that I don't get to attempt Miwok, and meet @SFBayDuck in four weeks, there's no way in hell I would have taken this morning off if that race was still on the horizon.
So I guess that's an upside of the race cancelation. Maybe I can be less obsessive about my volume over the next few weeks.
Next-closest 100K attempt is in August (Iron Legs) or September (Lost Soul).
The former is in my normal weekend stomping grounds, and I know those trails forwards and backwards. But it's not a WS100 qualifier. A number of open spots remaining, so I can sign up if I want to later. If it were a WS100 qualifier, it would be the home run choice.
The latter is a boring, but easier, course. And is a WS100 qualifier. I'm waitlisted for this one.
And not that I plan on running WS100 anytime soon. It would be nice to start accumulating entries, however, so I might have the opportunity to try in 3-5 years.
So I guess that's an upside of the race cancelation. Maybe I can be less obsessive about my volume over the next few weeks.
Next-closest 100K attempt is in August (Iron Legs) or September (Lost Soul).
The former is in my normal weekend stomping grounds, and I know those trails forwards and backwards. But it's not a WS100 qualifier. A number of open spots remaining, so I can sign up if I want to later. If it were a WS100 qualifier, it would be the home run choice.
The latter is a boring, but easier, course. And is a WS100 qualifier. I'm waitlisted for this one.
And not that I plan on running WS100 anytime soon. It would be nice to start accumulating entries, however, so I might have the opportunity to try in 3-5 years.
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SFBayDuck
Footballguy
I agree with others, might do you good to take a step-back week and recover from (and absorb) the training you've been doing.
As for WS100, they're just rolling over the whole thing to next year. So the qualification period for the next lottery in December of 2021 (for the '22 race) is January '20 through November '21. So you've got time if you don't get into that waitlisted 100K this year. I assume Miwok did the same thing and just rolled you over to next year?
I think I'd already posted it in here, but Angeles Crest 100 was officially cancelled as well. Being in August I thought it might have a chance to go off, but no dice. My redemption will have to wait until August '21.
Zasada
Footballguy
The organizers are going to give some kind of refund for this year, and then I have a lottery waiver to sign up for 2021. Which I plan to do. It looks like such a fun course, and the cutoff will be such a big challenge for me, that I really want to give it a go.
Oh that's interesting. I could pop my 100K cherry on my home course this year, and then use Miwok 2021 as a shot for my WS100 Qualifier. That's really good to know. Thanks for this!
MAC_32
Footballguy
Outside of peak marathon training winter/spring 2018 I didn't start doing 7x per week until this time last year. Even now there's still at least some selectivity. I did that 50 day streak during winter, but then was on a 6x per week plan for 6 weeks after. I'm still figuring out my optimal sequencing but generally speaking the only times you're gonna see me doing 7x per week are during peak training, when I'm not doing any/much SoS, or we have a worldwide pandemic that eliminates my access to a gym.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
Hmmm, my home-turf 100K (also 50mi/50K options if you just wanted an ER) is in August if you wanted a race to target...
Weather in the Canadian Rockies can be quite variable. I volunteered at this race last year, and the peaks had snow. Nice temps in the valleys. But some years can be hot.
Provided this virus business is behind us and the race goes off, you'd have a place to stay! My house is 45 minutes from the trailhead.
The race is fairly small, and doesn't fill until late. So just putting the bug in your ear for now...
Or if you just want to visit without a race, that's an option too. I can take you on some runs that have some pretty cool views.
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SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
krista4
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
Mount Lady MacDonald -- part of the Triple Crown of Canmore. This one is about 6mi and 3,300ft of elevation, round-trip to the "Teahouse" (just an old helipad, not an actual building). Getting to the summit requires hiking the knife-edge, which most don't do, and isn't for the faint of heart. But the Teahouse is still awesome. All hiking, no scrambling required.
On the other side of the valley are the other two parts of the Triple Crown: Ha-Ling Peak and Mount Rundle. Some of the other photos I linked in my post are from Ha-Ling. My friends and I did the whole Triple Crown in a single day two years ago. Took us about 12 hours total, with breaks.
Canmore is a town just outside of Banff National Park, and about an hour from Calgary, AB, Canada.
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Zasada
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
This totally makes sense. A few years ago while training for the Marine Corps Marathon, I did a bunch of hill work in northern Wisconsin, basically almost every weekend. And mostly I did this work mid-day, in 80-85 degree weather. It was awesome.....when I came back to doing my runs in Evanston during the Fall.....it was super easy to run on flat ground in cool weather. Sadly.....that was 3+ years ago.....need to get back to hill work.
bushdocda
Footballguy
Speaking of WS100, Ultra guys prob have already watched but I hadn’t and perhaps others.
Unbreakable - Western States 100
https://youtu.be/zy1as6CTYXI
Unbreakable - Western States 100
https://youtu.be/zy1as6CTYXI
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
Funny how things work out sometimes. After all of the talk yesterday about not overextending, somehow tweaked my foot a bit. It's a dull ache along the top, and yesterday it hurt to push off at all (e.g., going up stairs). Definitely hurts less today, but I'm doing the bike for tomorrow at least, maybe another day or two depending on how things feel.
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
And speaking of the bike, has anybody played around with doing a true Tabata workout following the original study from the '90's? I believe it's 20sec 170% VO2max, 10sec full rest x 8. I did a few on the stationary bike a few years back and it is utterly astonishing how wiped you can be after 4 minutes of exertion. Did 4 reps today as I find the last couple reps of the full 8 almost unbearable and 4 still seem to wipe me out a lot, so I have to imagine it retains at least some of the effectiveness.
gruecd
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
i do a variant of this on the air dyne bike. all out for 10 calories, rest for 5 (still pedaling) to 100 calories. under 5 minutes is pretty good.
@gruecd 60/50/50 i still have no clue if there's an actual challenge. thought i saw a spread sheet.
El Floppo
Footballguy
@Zasada
I don't know from running training, but reading your posts and the replies from others made me think of the IM training I did with coaches as part of a tri club.
I wonder if you're doing anything like this, or just going out and pounding?
The coaches had us on a 3 weeks on, 1 week off/recover schedule. Each of the 3 weeks would subsequently build- volume, pace, etc (and each 3 week cycle would also build on the previous...slowly towards IM distances over 9 months, with targeted 2 or 3 races in the buildup). The week "off" was still the typical 6 days of training (Mondays always completely off- weekends were our bigger workouts), just with conversational pace and lower volume/distance.
Tbh, I still fell apart physically...but because I wasn't taking care of myself and didn't see a doctor until my feet were literally breaking apart. But the approach felt right, built conditioning and confidence and helped break up the rinse repeat ad nauseum that can come of this stuff.
I don't know from running training, but reading your posts and the replies from others made me think of the IM training I did with coaches as part of a tri club.
I wonder if you're doing anything like this, or just going out and pounding?
The coaches had us on a 3 weeks on, 1 week off/recover schedule. Each of the 3 weeks would subsequently build- volume, pace, etc (and each 3 week cycle would also build on the previous...slowly towards IM distances over 9 months, with targeted 2 or 3 races in the buildup). The week "off" was still the typical 6 days of training (Mondays always completely off- weekends were our bigger workouts), just with conversational pace and lower volume/distance.
Tbh, I still fell apart physically...but because I wasn't taking care of myself and didn't see a doctor until my feet were literally breaking apart. But the approach felt right, built conditioning and confidence and helped break up the rinse repeat ad nauseum that can come of this stuff.
Zasada
Footballguy
I think this is why I was getting frustrated. The pursuit of volume was/is breaking me down, such that all I could do was volume. It was very rare that I could go out and try anything more than just checking the box on distance at a slow pace.
I took Monday and Tuesday off this week. First consecutive two-day rest in months. This morning, the first 8K of my run was great. Not much pain, keeping a good pace. The last 12K, all the pains started to return and pace dropped. Didn't help that I had to break my pace twice with mid-run poops, but it is what it is.
So I probably should have kept it to just 10K this morning. I'll do an easy 10K tomorrow, and then perhaps take Friday off, depending on how I feel.
I'm thinking that maybe I can still do 50mi weeks, I just have to do it with a 5x schedule instead of 6x.
Hard to imagine that a couple years ago, 3x was a big deal for me!
Addendum: I also think that running trails on weekends introduced enough variety in stride that I wasn't wearing down precisely the same muscles I use for street running. This last weekend I had to stay south, so I ran streets on the weekend when I would normally be in the mountains. I think that just added to the overall fatigue. This is going to be a problem for the next month or two, so I'll need to figure that out. On top of the problem that I won't see my wife for the same amount of time!
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Well crap. That's kind of de-motivating. Now the question do you sign up for a race that's likely going to be cancelled and not refundable just to get a placeholder for next year assuming they roll over your spot to sign up?
Zasada
Footballguy
Salomon Speedcross 5 for $70 (reg $130).
Sizes 8.5, 9, 11.5, & 12.5 in-stock at the time of this post. Must add to cart to see the discounted price.
I'm a size 13 in running shoes so unfortunately I can't jump on this. Which I would if my size was available!
Sizes 8.5, 9, 11.5, & 12.5 in-stock at the time of this post. Must add to cart to see the discounted price.
I'm a size 13 in running shoes so unfortunately I can't jump on this. Which I would if my size was available!
El Floppo
Footballguy
For a business model that was already on the upswing, corona has sealed this as a fantastic enterprise (and activity).
Zasada
Footballguy
Was this a surprise to you? Not that it's a bad thing, but if either my wife or I dropped a couple grand on anything as a surprise, it wouldn't go over well.
Enjoy your rides. I've long envied the Peloton Treadmill, but it's just too crazy expensive for us.
Harris
Footballguy
I had never heard of the Peloton Treadmill but just looked it up and wow at that price tag! I think of all the sweet running gear I could get for that, including likely building my own personal track or something.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Everyone has their own rules to follow in the relationship, but we're the same. Anything over $200 gets discussed before hand.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Saw that they released it for free, very cool. I bought the dvd when it first came out, have probably watched it 4-5 times but it's been awhile.
If any of you haven't seen it, watch it. If you have any free time, of course.
