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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (6 Viewers)

So, at the risk of overthinking the Turkey Trot (but what else would this thread be for??), I'm trying to figure out how aggressive to be in this upcoming 5K.  Looking back at 6x400's that I ran leading up to my PR, is seems like my 5K time was about ~13.2X my average 400 time.  To put it another way, I was running the 400's about 6% faster than 5K pace.  Curious if anyone in here would be willing to chime in with their particular ratios.    

 
my son's HS girl's x-country team won some version of state for the 1st team in school history, apparently led by a course record 1st place finish by one of the girls. my son relayed the time was 20:13. Am I wrong in thinking HS girls run much faster than that? I mean, even I've run faster than that. 

 
El Floppo said:
my son's HS girl's x-country team won some version of state for the 1st team in school history, apparently led by a course record 1st place finish by one of the girls. my son relayed the time was 20:13. Am I wrong in thinking HS girls run much faster than that? I mean, even I've run faster than that. 
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Just looked up the Indiana state XC results for this year - 17:32 was the winner. 20:13 was only good enough for 95th place. Now, the course could make a huge difference depending on hills and such. 

 
The Iguana said:
Just looked up the Indiana state XC results for this year - 17:32 was the winner. 20:13 was only good enough for 95th place. Now, the course could make a huge difference depending on hills and such. 
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Thanks. And I'm not saying this was the full NY State meet. this was private schools in this part of the state. not sure why they still call it "state meet"- and I think they advance to even more "state" meet vs more of the state :loco: . even so- 20:13... that's 6:30s. 

 
Dr_Zaius said:
So, at the risk of overthinking the Turkey Trot (but what else would this thread be for??), I'm trying to figure out how aggressive to be in this upcoming 5K.  Looking back at 6x400's that I ran leading up to my PR, is seems like my 5K time was about ~13.2X my average 400 time.  To put it another way, I was running the 400's about 6% faster than 5K pace.  Curious if anyone in here would be willing to chime in with their particular ratios.    
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I think you are overthinking it. For 5Ks, I think you just hit the gas from the start and hold on for 3.1 miles. It’s okay to be aggressive in a 5K. If you have the heart and mentality, you can hold on to an aggressive pace. I am doing one also. Figure I start out around 6:15 which is faster than what I think I’m capable of at this point and try to hold on to something under 6:25 for the rest of the race. Just make sure the song on your playlist for the final 800-1200 meters is the best you got.

 
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Dr_Zaius said:
So, at the risk of overthinking the Turkey Trot (but what else would this thread be for??), I'm trying to figure out how aggressive to be in this upcoming 5K.  Looking back at 6x400's that I ran leading up to my PR, is seems like my 5K time was about ~13.2X my average 400 time.  To put it another way, I was running the 400's about 6% faster than 5K pace.  Curious if anyone in here would be willing to chime in with their particular ratios.    
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To quote our esteemed thread mascot: No.

It's a 5K.  So to quote our Dances With Dirt, Team Viagra motto: Run Hard.

 
Harris said:
All of you guys kicked ### this weekend and being down in Indy this weekend really made me want to get back on the horse to join in on the fun. Had no running scheduled for 2022 but it just so happens that there is the F3 (####### freezing frozen) Half Marathon on the lakefront on January 29. Signed up as of this morning and let's see how far I can take it over the next 12 weeks!

@tri-man 47, you interested?
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I've registered.  Considering that you've encouraged me to enter a HM on Chicago's lakefront on January 29, let me get this out of the way right now:

:finger:

 
Dr_Zaius said:
So, at the risk of overthinking the Turkey Trot (but what else would this thread be for??), I'm trying to figure out how aggressive to be in this upcoming 5K.  Looking back at 6x400's that I ran leading up to my PR, is seems like my 5K time was about ~13.2X my average 400 time.  To put it another way, I was running the 400's about 6% faster than 5K pace.  Curious if anyone in here would be willing to chime in with their particular ratios.    
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My 400 intervals are 1:31ish.

My 5k is 19:45ish right about now.

I’m not good at math so I’ll let you figure out the ratios.

 
El Floppo said:
my son's HS girl's x-country team won some version of state for the 1st team in school history, apparently led by a course record 1st place finish by one of the girls. my son relayed the time was 20:13. Am I wrong in thinking HS girls run much faster than that? I mean, even I've run faster than that. 
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I doubt its a 5K course.  Perhaps it was 3.7 or something like that.  Where was it held?  VanCortlandt Park?

 
JShare87 said:
I think you are overthinking it. For 5Ks, I think you just hit the gas from the start and hold on for 3.1 miles.

...Just make sure the song on your playlist for the final 800-1200 meters is the best you got.
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Yeah, that's basically the plan.  I've run a decent chunk of 5Ks over the years, and I've always had better luck going out hard vs. trying for a negative split.  Years ago I read somewhere that it's almost impossible for a well-trained runner to go out too hard in a 5K, and I think I largely agree with that.  I was hoping to get some sort of realistic goal so it wasn't all by feel and so that I don't totally nuke myself in the first mile, but I should probably just RFDAP.

Despite almost never training without music, I've actually never run a race with headphones outside of our thread series last year.  I may have to think about it though - I've been running my intervals to punk songs, and I think it definitely helps me lay the hammer down.

tri-man 47 said:
To quote our esteemed thread mascot: No.

It's a 5K.  So to quote our Dances With Dirt, Team Viagra motto: Run Hard.
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So no erotistim beforehand?

 
El Floppo said:
Thanks. And I'm not saying this was the full NY State meet. this was private schools in this part of the state. not sure why they still call it "state meet"- and I think they advance to even more "state" meet vs more of the state :loco: . even so- 20:13... that's 6:30s. 
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that actually could make some sense then. I have a friend with kids in a private school and they compete with "regular schools" but also have their own 'state meet' - the times for that meet tend to be slower than for the actual state champions - i.e. not quite as strong of competition. 

There are a number of private schools around here that are powerhouses in football or basketball but I don't think there is as much effort put in to 'recruiting' XC runners and such at the HS level. 

 
Dr_Zaius said:
Yeah, that's basically the plan.  I've run a decent chunk of 5Ks over the years, and I've always had better luck going out hard vs. trying for a negative split.  Years ago I read somewhere that it's almost impossible for a well-trained runner to go out too hard in a 5K, and I think I largely agree with that.  I was hoping to get some sort of realistic goal so it wasn't all by feel and so that I don't totally nuke myself in the first mile, but I should probably just RFDAP.

Despite almost never training without music, I've actually never run a race with headphones outside of our thread series last year.  I may have to think about it though - I've been running my intervals to punk songs, and I think it definitely helps me lay the hammer down.

So no erotistim beforehand?
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Be careful with the bolded. When I made my statement about hitting the gas, it has to be within reason. I once ran a 5K and set my mile PR of 5:43 for the first mile and stumbled home for the last mile in over a 7:00 minute pace. Maybe I was being a P word that day, but I was cooked, so I think it is possible to crash and burn. What are you shooting for?

 
JShare87 said:
Be careful with the bolded. When I made my statement about hitting the gas, it has to be within reason. I once ran a 5K and set my mile PR of 5:43 for the first mile and stumbled home for the last mile in over a 7:00 minute pace. Maybe I was being a P word that day, but I was cooked, so I think it is possible to crash and burn. What are you shooting for?
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Yeah, in one of my first few 5K's I did something not quite as egregious as you, but still pretty bad.  I ran the first 1/4 mile or so at like 5:50 pace stupidly latching onto a really fast kid (I was probably in 6:45/mi shape or so), then backed way off and suffered through ~7:00 miles.  Surprisingly, my overall time was not awful, presumably because I backed off before things went totally haywire, but it was easily the most unpleasant 5K I've ever run.  I probably would have quit if the course hadn't been full of spectators.  So it's definitely possible, but I'd like to think I'm experienced enough now to know what "way too friggin" fast feels like.

At any rate, my PR is 19:38, and honestly that's my C goal.  B goal is probably ~19:20.  I don't know what my A goal is, although given that I never hit my A goal it might not matter, but that's what I was trying to figure out.  I've had decent success with trying to set a reasonably hard pace in the first 1/4-1/2 mile and then running the rest by feel.  Based on past races, I'm leaning towards holding around 6:00ish for the pancake flat start and to work from there.

Hit a bit of a monkey wrench last night in that I tweaked the outside of my left ankle while doing intervals.  I don't think it's a big deal and I don't want to shut things down, but I also don't want to be stupid, as it is tender and complains a bit as I walk.

 
Dr_Zaius said:
Yeah, in one of my first few 5K's I did something not quite as egregious as you, but still pretty bad.  I ran the first 1/4 mile or so at like 5:50 pace stupidly latching onto a really fast kid (I was probably in 6:45/mi shape or so), then backed way off and suffered through ~7:00 miles.  Surprisingly, my overall time was not awful, presumably because I backed off before things went totally haywire, but it was easily the most unpleasant 5K I've ever run.  I probably would have quit if the course hadn't been full of spectators.  So it's definitely possible, but I'd like to think I'm experienced enough now to know what "way too friggin" fast feels like.

At any rate, my PR is 19:38, and honestly that's my C goal.  B goal is probably ~19:20.  I don't know what my A goal is, although given that I never hit my A goal it might not matter, but that's what I was trying to figure out.  I've had decent success with trying to set a reasonably hard pace in the first 1/4-1/2 mile and then running the rest by feel.  Based on past races, I'm leaning towards holding around 6:00ish for the pancake flat start and to work from there.

Hit a bit of a monkey wrench last night in that I tweaked the outside of my left ankle while doing intervals.  I don't think it's a big deal and I don't want to shut things down, but I also don't want to be stupid, as it is tender and complains a bit as I walk.
Click to expand...
18:59

-- @MAC_32

 
Dr_Zaius said:
Yeah, in one of my first few 5K's I did something not quite as egregious as you, but still pretty bad.  I ran the first 1/4 mile or so at like 5:50 pace stupidly latching onto a really fast kid (I was probably in 6:45/mi shape or so), then backed way off and suffered through ~7:00 miles.  Surprisingly, my overall time was not awful, presumably because I backed off before things went totally haywire, but it was easily the most unpleasant 5K I've ever run.  I probably would have quit if the course hadn't been full of spectators.  So it's definitely possible, but I'd like to think I'm experienced enough now to know what "way too friggin" fast feels like.

At any rate, my PR is 19:38, and honestly that's my C goal.  B goal is probably ~19:20.  I don't know what my A goal is, although given that I never hit my A goal it might not matter, but that's what I was trying to figure out.  I've had decent success with trying to set a reasonably hard pace in the first 1/4-1/2 mile and then running the rest by feel.  Based on past races, I'm leaning towards holding around 6:00ish for the pancake flat start and to work from there.

Hit a bit of a monkey wrench last night in that I tweaked the outside of my left ankle while doing intervals.  I don't think it's a big deal and I don't want to shut things down, but I also don't want to be stupid, as it is tender and complains a bit as I walk.
Click to expand...
If you C goal is 19:38, I’d say try for sub 19. Start around 6:00 flat and try to hold on.

 
El Floppo said:
yep... and that would make sense.

But listed as 5k. dunno. not something worth our collective energy, tbh... but I do appreciate the answers.
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I ran XC in high school in NYS(25 years ago), I couldn’t make the varsity team(top 7) and my best 5k was 19:20, we weren’t even a powerhouse team.  Definitely not the big state meet if 20:13 is winning it.

 
gruecd said:
I feel like it’s about time for another 30-day, 100 push-up challenge…

(And for the smartasses, that’s 100 per day)
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In.  I need to get off my ### and start serious strength training.  I'll hate every minute of this challenge but it will pay off to have that accountability.

 
Out for the 30 day push up challenge - my neck issues are flaring up bad and shooting down my right arm now. Basically a numbing and sometimes sharp pain in my elbow and forearm muscles. Will need to explore this further soon.

I'll do a 30 day plank challenge however - I've been ramping up on these lately so count me in on that if someone wants to add a column on the spreadsheet.

On another note, the mascot loaded up the Hanson Plan into my calendar this morning for the April 9 half. Base building for the next 6 weeks and then go time on Jan 3rd. 

 
ChiefD said:
Out for the 30 day push up challenge - my neck issues are flaring up bad and shooting down my right arm now. Basically a numbing and sometimes sharp pain in my elbow and forearm muscles. Will need to explore this further soon.

I'll do a 30 day plank challenge however - I've been ramping up on these lately so count me in on that if someone wants to add a column on the spreadsheet.

On another note, the mascot loaded up the Hanson Plan into my calendar this morning for the April 9 half. Base building for the next 6 weeks and then go time on Jan 3rd. 
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Can you get that radiating neck looked at please, thanks GB. 

Also 👍 to the rest of the above!

 
ChiefD said:
On another note, the mascot loaded up the Hanson Plan into my calendar this morning for the April 9 half. Base building for the next 6 weeks and then go time on Jan 3rd. 
Click to expand...
Great to hear you're getting back into it, be careful with the Hansons Half plan. @bushdocda and I were talking about it last weekend about how it is too tough for me. I didn't recover fast enough from the workouts, my experience is that it is much more difficult than the Hansons Marathon plan.

 
bushdocda said:
Can you get that radiating neck looked at please, thanks GB. 

Also 👍 to the rest of the above!
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Yeah, will do. I already know a piece of the puzzle - I have a degenerative disc that was diagnosed about 3 years ago. Was supposed to do PT but it was in the middle of my last marathon cycle in 2019.

Talked to my doctor about it again about 6 weeks ago - he prescribed a steroid to see if that could calm things down. It did for a week but here we are again.

So basically he'll refer me back to the orthopedic doc once I call him back. Which will probably be today. So the process is in the works. 

 
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pbm107 said:
Great to hear you're getting back into it, be careful with the Hansons Half plan. @bushdocda and I were talking about it last weekend about how it is too tough for me. I didn't recover fast enough from the workouts, my experience is that it is much more difficult than the Hansons Marathon plan.
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Thanks for the warning. I'll keep that in mind as I get into the plan. 

I know it's gonna be a big leap anyway considering my lackadaisical running the last 18 months, so it's good to know if it gets rough I can back off if necessary.

 
Looked at the FBG race calendar when the push-up doc took me to googles docs. No more races showing in calendar year 2021, say it ain’t so. 

 
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