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Yes, then turning it over to her to speak, jokingly, while knowing her first line would be about her deep regret for the role she played, indicated he was fine with perpetuating the notion that she also shared blame. He did nothing to disabuse anyone of that notion and allowed others to continue to perpetuate it.
That's a good idea. It would probably lead to an Onion article with Roger Goddell handing a giant check to a domestic violence shelter and the shelter thanking Ray Rice for his actions.
I get that, but how in the blue hell can you equate her mildly slapping him to him knocking her the eff out with a punch that could have killed her?
He's pretty awful as a public speaker and clearly wasn't prepared. And I will say a third time, I don't know if he was genuinely remorseful or just trying to say the right thing. And I will say a second time that I don't blame you for doubting his sincerity. The compassionate part of me wants to believe he's trying to change but we simply don't know. Maybe he will make another statement where he does take full responsibility, checks off all the right boxes, and people will then probably say he was coached.We don't know these people, but for some reason it's really important to have a take, to say this is how it is, he's garbage, let's toss him aside. Humans don't deal with uncertainty and nuance very well. God knows an online forum is the worst place to explore things from a deeper perspective. You're either good or bad, smart or stupid, progressive or a bigot. Clearly I'm still learning about this situation and trying to make sense of it, and (gasp!) I'm not ready to either damn him to hell or applaud him for changing. I'm open to both outcomes.Pretty ####ty post in response to someone who actually tried to be on your side. Yeah, I saw the press conference, and I also have seen the stuff where it was emphasized how sorry she was for her role, Rice's apparent lying to people about what happened, etc. Guess I missed the part where he took full responsibility, indicated he had done what we now know he did based on the video, said she wasn't to blame, and indicated that she had not done, and could not do, anything to provoke what he did. Link?I have to admit I'm not aware of Rice either taking responsibility or not, other than the press conference where he repeatedly apologizes, gets choked up, and says he is trying to be a better man. Like I said before, I can't say if he was genuine or not. If someone isn't inclined to believe a wife beater with millions of dollars at stake, I can certainly understand that. But none of us know what's in the man's heart.I just would like to know if he's getting help or not, and is he genuinely trying to change. That's not what the media are interested in covering though, not surprisingly. And soon it will be forgotten.I think you've made some good points in here that have been lost due to your statements about their both being aggressive/violent and equivalence. I agree with your second paragraph here. I'm as much of an animal person as anyone and in fact spent a week volunteering at the sanctuary where many of the Vick dogs ended up, but I have never jumped on the "let's vilify Michael Vick forever" train as I hope that he and others could be rehabilitated, and I've seen a lot from him that indicates he has been.
I think the current response is correct--i.e., being cut and indefinitely suspended. Though thus far Rice has not shown an ability to take responsibility for his actions, I hope that he will and will find a way to change. If so, I wouldn't be angry if he comes back to the NFL. This comes from a person who has worked with and handled pro bono cases for battered women over the years. I can't find it in myself to be wholly unforgiving and write someone off unless, as you say, he is a psychopath or unable to be rehabilitated.
Also agree with your prior posts about people ignoring the source of the violence and not addressing the root causes. Just bringing out the pitchforks is a lot easier, I guess.
Yea it's all over twitter now. I hope it's a video of Goodell watching the Rice video in May.I dont Twitter......is this source legit?I have a feelng this will cost Goodell his job.@johnbreech: Looks like TMZ is going for Roger Goodell next. Harvey Levin today, "When you wake up tomorrow, you will see what the NFL didn't do."
That's total BS if you think the Ravens didn't prep what he was going to say. Both he and the Ravens came to the conclusion that the proper strategy was to 1) try and shift most of the blame to Janay, and 2) hope no one ever saw the video.He's pretty awful as a public speaker and clearly wasn't prepared. And I will say a third time, I don't know if he was genuinely remorseful or just trying to say the right thing. And I will say a second time that I don't blame you for doubting his sincerity. The compassionate part of me wants to believe he's trying to change but we simply don't know. Maybe he will make another statement where he does take full responsibility, checks off all the right boxes, and people will then probably say he was coached.We don't know these people, but for some reason it's really important to have a take, to say this is how it is, he's garbage, let's toss him aside. Humans don't deal with uncertainty and nuance very well. God knows an online forum is the worst place to explore things from a deeper perspective. You're either good or bad, smart or stupid, progressive or a bigot. Clearly I'm still learning about this situation and trying to make sense of it, and (gasp!) I'm not ready to either damn him to hell or applaud him for changing. I'm open to both outcomes.Pretty ####ty post in response to someone who actually tried to be on your side. Yeah, I saw the press conference, and I also have seen the stuff where it was emphasized how sorry she was for her role, Rice's apparent lying to people about what happened, etc. Guess I missed the part where he took full responsibility, indicated he had done what we now know he did based on the video, said she wasn't to blame, and indicated that she had not done, and could not do, anything to provoke what he did. Link?I have to admit I'm not aware of Rice either taking responsibility or not, other than the press conference where he repeatedly apologizes, gets choked up, and says he is trying to be a better man. Like I said before, I can't say if he was genuine or not. If someone isn't inclined to believe a wife beater with millions of dollars at stake, I can certainly understand that. But none of us know what's in the man's heart.I just would like to know if he's getting help or not, and is he genuinely trying to change. That's not what the media are interested in covering though, not surprisingly. And soon it will be forgotten.I think you've made some good points in here that have been lost due to your statements about their both being aggressive/violent and equivalence. I agree with your second paragraph here. I'm as much of an animal person as anyone and in fact spent a week volunteering at the sanctuary where many of the Vick dogs ended up, but I have never jumped on the "let's vilify Michael Vick forever" train as I hope that he and others could be rehabilitated, and I've seen a lot from him that indicates he has been.
I think the current response is correct--i.e., being cut and indefinitely suspended. Though thus far Rice has not shown an ability to take responsibility for his actions, I hope that he will and will find a way to change. If so, I wouldn't be angry if he comes back to the NFL. This comes from a person who has worked with and handled pro bono cases for battered women over the years. I can't find it in myself to be wholly unforgiving and write someone off unless, as you say, he is a psychopath or unable to be rehabilitated.
Also agree with your prior posts about people ignoring the source of the violence and not addressing the root causes. Just bringing out the pitchforks is a lot easier, I guess.
I doubt Goodell watched the Rice video.Yea it's all over twitter now.I hope it's a video of Goodell watching the Rice video in May.I dont Twitter......is this source legit?I have a feelng this will cost Goodell his job.@johnbreech: Looks like TMZ is going for Roger Goodell next. Harvey Levin today, "When you wake up tomorrow, you will see what the NFL didn't do."
Edit: email or phone conversation works too and is much more likely.
Love it. "Ive never given a #### about domestic violence but theres a video in this instance so I'm taking a stand by banning him!"
That's not at all what I took away from it. If he was prepped, the execution was about an F. He's clumsily trying to scroll through notes on his phone, stutters, repeats himself...then Janay apologizes for "her part" which my God, are you kidding me that the Ravens wanted her to say that?? And assuming Rice fully comprehended the ramifications of that statement in one of the most nerve-wracking moments of his life, yes to Krista's point that he failed in not taking that opportunity to take full responsibility. The whole thing was not planned or executed well at all.That's total BS if you think the Ravens didn't prep what he was going to say. Both he and the Ravens came to the conclusion that the proper strategy was to 1) try and shift most of the blame to Janay, and 2) hope no one ever saw the video.He's pretty awful as a public speaker and clearly wasn't prepared. And I will say a third time, I don't know if he was genuinely remorseful or just trying to say the right thing. And I will say a second time that I don't blame you for doubting his sincerity. The compassionate part of me wants to believe he's trying to change but we simply don't know. Maybe he will make another statement where he does take full responsibility, checks off all the right boxes, and people will then probably say he was coached.We don't know these people, but for some reason it's really important to have a take, to say this is how it is, he's garbage, let's toss him aside. Humans don't deal with uncertainty and nuance very well. God knows an online forum is the worst place to explore things from a deeper perspective. You're either good or bad, smart or stupid, progressive or a bigot. Clearly I'm still learning about this situation and trying to make sense of it, and (gasp!) I'm not ready to either damn him to hell or applaud him for changing. I'm open to both outcomes.Pretty ####ty post in response to someone who actually tried to be on your side. Yeah, I saw the press conference, and I also have seen the stuff where it was emphasized how sorry she was for her role, Rice's apparent lying to people about what happened, etc. Guess I missed the part where he took full responsibility, indicated he had done what we now know he did based on the video, said she wasn't to blame, and indicated that she had not done, and could not do, anything to provoke what he did. Link?I have to admit I'm not aware of Rice either taking responsibility or not, other than the press conference where he repeatedly apologizes, gets choked up, and says he is trying to be a better man. Like I said before, I can't say if he was genuine or not. If someone isn't inclined to believe a wife beater with millions of dollars at stake, I can certainly understand that. But none of us know what's in the man's heart.I just would like to know if he's getting help or not, and is he genuinely trying to change. That's not what the media are interested in covering though, not surprisingly. And soon it will be forgotten.I think you've made some good points in here that have been lost due to your statements about their both being aggressive/violent and equivalence. I agree with your second paragraph here. I'm as much of an animal person as anyone and in fact spent a week volunteering at the sanctuary where many of the Vick dogs ended up, but I have never jumped on the "let's vilify Michael Vick forever" train as I hope that he and others could be rehabilitated, and I've seen a lot from him that indicates he has been.
I think the current response is correct--i.e., being cut and indefinitely suspended. Though thus far Rice has not shown an ability to take responsibility for his actions, I hope that he will and will find a way to change. If so, I wouldn't be angry if he comes back to the NFL. This comes from a person who has worked with and handled pro bono cases for battered women over the years. I can't find it in myself to be wholly unforgiving and write someone off unless, as you say, he is a psychopath or unable to be rehabilitated.
Also agree with your prior posts about people ignoring the source of the violence and not addressing the root causes. Just bringing out the pitchforks is a lot easier, I guess.
Totally agree. Goodell and the NFL are being very careful saying the NFL itself didn't see it, but that still leaves people outside investigators to see it.I doubt Goodell watched the Rice video. I am close to 100% sure his investigators did.Yea it's all over twitter now.I hope it's a video of Goodell watching the Rice video in May.I dont Twitter......is this source legit?I have a feelng this will cost Goodell his job.@johnbreech: Looks like TMZ is going for Roger Goodell next. Harvey Levin today, "When you wake up tomorrow, you will see what the NFL didn't do."
Edit: email or phone conversation works too and is much more likely.
They tweeted it. And they left that tweet up until...wait for it...today.That's not at all what I took away from it. If he was prepped, the execution was about an F. He's clumsily trying to scroll through notes on his phone, stutters, repeats himself...then Janay apologizes for "her part" which my God, are you kidding me that the Ravens wanted her to say that?? And assuming Rice fully comprehended the ramifications of that statement in one of the most nerve-wracking moments of his life, yes to Krista's point that he failed in not taking that opportunity to take full responsibility. The whole thing was not planned or executed well at all.That's total BS if you think the Ravens didn't prep what he was going to say. Both he and the Ravens came to the conclusion that the proper strategy was to 1) try and shift most of the blame to Janay, and 2) hope no one ever saw the video.He's pretty awful as a public speaker and clearly wasn't prepared. And I will say a third time, I don't know if he was genuinely remorseful or just trying to say the right thing. And I will say a second time that I don't blame you for doubting his sincerity. The compassionate part of me wants to believe he's trying to change but we simply don't know. Maybe he will make another statement where he does take full responsibility, checks off all the right boxes, and people will then probably say he was coached.We don't know these people, but for some reason it's really important to have a take, to say this is how it is, he's garbage, let's toss him aside. Humans don't deal with uncertainty and nuance very well. God knows an online forum is the worst place to explore things from a deeper perspective. You're either good or bad, smart or stupid, progressive or a bigot. Clearly I'm still learning about this situation and trying to make sense of it, and (gasp!) I'm not ready to either damn him to hell or applaud him for changing. I'm open to both outcomes.Pretty ####ty post in response to someone who actually tried to be on your side. Yeah, I saw the press conference, and I also have seen the stuff where it was emphasized how sorry she was for her role, Rice's apparent lying to people about what happened, etc. Guess I missed the part where he took full responsibility, indicated he had done what we now know he did based on the video, said she wasn't to blame, and indicated that she had not done, and could not do, anything to provoke what he did. Link?I have to admit I'm not aware of Rice either taking responsibility or not, other than the press conference where he repeatedly apologizes, gets choked up, and says he is trying to be a better man. Like I said before, I can't say if he was genuine or not. If someone isn't inclined to believe a wife beater with millions of dollars at stake, I can certainly understand that. But none of us know what's in the man's heart.I just would like to know if he's getting help or not, and is he genuinely trying to change. That's not what the media are interested in covering though, not surprisingly. And soon it will be forgotten.I think you've made some good points in here that have been lost due to your statements about their both being aggressive/violent and equivalence. I agree with your second paragraph here. I'm as much of an animal person as anyone and in fact spent a week volunteering at the sanctuary where many of the Vick dogs ended up, but I have never jumped on the "let's vilify Michael Vick forever" train as I hope that he and others could be rehabilitated, and I've seen a lot from him that indicates he has been.
I think the current response is correct--i.e., being cut and indefinitely suspended. Though thus far Rice has not shown an ability to take responsibility for his actions, I hope that he will and will find a way to change. If so, I wouldn't be angry if he comes back to the NFL. This comes from a person who has worked with and handled pro bono cases for battered women over the years. I can't find it in myself to be wholly unforgiving and write someone off unless, as you say, he is a psychopath or unable to be rehabilitated.
Also agree with your prior posts about people ignoring the source of the violence and not addressing the root causes. Just bringing out the pitchforks is a lot easier, I guess.
I'm totally on board with your perspective that the guy should get a chance for redemption and the hope that he does what he needs to to never let this happen again. But the punishment in this case is totally appropriate. What he did is completely despicable. He elevated the situation well behind anywhere she was taking it and he did it with such casual disregard for her well-being.McGarnicle said:He's pretty awful as a public speaker and clearly wasn't prepared. And I will say a third time, I don't know if he was genuinely remorseful or just trying to say the right thing. And I will say a second time that I don't blame you for doubting his sincerity. The compassionate part of me wants to believe he's trying to change but we simply don't know. Maybe he will make another statement where he does take full responsibility, checks off all the right boxes, and people will then probably say he was coached.We don't know these people, but for some reason it's really important to have a take, to say this is how it is, he's garbage, let's toss him aside. Humans don't deal with uncertainty and nuance very well. God knows an online forum is the worst place to explore things from a deeper perspective. You're either good or bad, smart or stupid, progressive or a bigot. Clearly I'm still learning about this situation and trying to make sense of it, and (gasp!) I'm not ready to either damn him to hell or applaud him for changing. I'm open to both outcomes.krista4 said:Pretty ####ty post in response to someone who actually tried to be on your side. Yeah, I saw the press conference, and I also have seen the stuff where it was emphasized how sorry she was for her role, Rice's apparent lying to people about what happened, etc. Guess I missed the part where he took full responsibility, indicated he had done what we now know he did based on the video, said she wasn't to blame, and indicated that she had not done, and could not do, anything to provoke what he did. Link?McGarnicle said:I have to admit I'm not aware of Rice either taking responsibility or not, other than the press conference where he repeatedly apologizes, gets choked up, and says he is trying to be a better man. Like I said before, I can't say if he was genuine or not. If someone isn't inclined to believe a wife beater with millions of dollars at stake, I can certainly understand that. But none of us know what's in the man's heart.I just would like to know if he's getting help or not, and is he genuinely trying to change. That's not what the media are interested in covering though, not surprisingly. And soon it will be forgotten.krista4 said:I think you've made some good points in here that have been lost due to your statements about their both being aggressive/violent and equivalence. I agree with your second paragraph here. I'm as much of an animal person as anyone and in fact spent a week volunteering at the sanctuary where many of the Vick dogs ended up, but I have never jumped on the "let's vilify Michael Vick forever" train as I hope that he and others could be rehabilitated, and I've seen a lot from him that indicates he has been.McGarnicle said:
I think the current response is correct--i.e., being cut and indefinitely suspended. Though thus far Rice has not shown an ability to take responsibility for his actions, I hope that he will and will find a way to change. If so, I wouldn't be angry if he comes back to the NFL. This comes from a person who has worked with and handled pro bono cases for battered women over the years. I can't find it in myself to be wholly unforgiving and write someone off unless, as you say, he is a psychopath or unable to be rehabilitated.
Also agree with your prior posts about people ignoring the source of the violence and not addressing the root causes. Just bringing out the pitchforks is a lot easier, I guess.
The Ravens also tweeted this gem:krista4 said:They tweeted it. And they left that tweet up until...wait for it...today.McGarnicle said:That's not at all what I took away from it. If he was prepped, the execution was about an F. He's clumsily trying to scroll through notes on his phone, stutters, repeats himself...then Janay apologizes for "her part" which my God, are you kidding me that the Ravens wanted her to say that?? And assuming Rice fully comprehended the ramifications of that statement in one of the most nerve-wracking moments of his life, yes to Krista's point that he failed in not taking that opportunity to take full responsibility. The whole thing was not planned or executed well at all.njherdfan said:That's total BS if you think the Ravens didn't prep what he was going to say. Both he and the Ravens came to the conclusion that the proper strategy was to 1) try and shift most of the blame to Janay, and 2) hope no one ever saw the video.McGarnicle said:He's pretty awful as a public speaker and clearly wasn't prepared. And I will say a third time, I don't know if he was genuinely remorseful or just trying to say the right thing. And I will say a second time that I don't blame you for doubting his sincerity. The compassionate part of me wants to believe he's trying to change but we simply don't know. Maybe he will make another statement where he does take full responsibility, checks off all the right boxes, and people will then probably say he was coached.We don't know these people, but for some reason it's really important to have a take, to say this is how it is, he's garbage, let's toss him aside. Humans don't deal with uncertainty and nuance very well. God knows an online forum is the worst place to explore things from a deeper perspective. You're either good or bad, smart or stupid, progressive or a bigot. Clearly I'm still learning about this situation and trying to make sense of it, and (gasp!) I'm not ready to either damn him to hell or applaud him for changing. I'm open to both outcomes.krista4 said:Pretty ####ty post in response to someone who actually tried to be on your side. Yeah, I saw the press conference, and I also have seen the stuff where it was emphasized how sorry she was for her role, Rice's apparent lying to people about what happened, etc. Guess I missed the part where he took full responsibility, indicated he had done what we now know he did based on the video, said she wasn't to blame, and indicated that she had not done, and could not do, anything to provoke what he did. Link?McGarnicle said:I have to admit I'm not aware of Rice either taking responsibility or not, other than the press conference where he repeatedly apologizes, gets choked up, and says he is trying to be a better man. Like I said before, I can't say if he was genuine or not. If someone isn't inclined to believe a wife beater with millions of dollars at stake, I can certainly understand that. But none of us know what's in the man's heart.I just would like to know if he's getting help or not, and is he genuinely trying to change. That's not what the media are interested in covering though, not surprisingly. And soon it will be forgotten.krista4 said:I think you've made some good points in here that have been lost due to your statements about their both being aggressive/violent and equivalence. I agree with your second paragraph here. I'm as much of an animal person as anyone and in fact spent a week volunteering at the sanctuary where many of the Vick dogs ended up, but I have never jumped on the "let's vilify Michael Vick forever" train as I hope that he and others could be rehabilitated, and I've seen a lot from him that indicates he has been.McGarnicle said:
I think the current response is correct--i.e., being cut and indefinitely suspended. Though thus far Rice has not shown an ability to take responsibility for his actions, I hope that he will and will find a way to change. If so, I wouldn't be angry if he comes back to the NFL. This comes from a person who has worked with and handled pro bono cases for battered women over the years. I can't find it in myself to be wholly unforgiving and write someone off unless, as you say, he is a psychopath or unable to be rehabilitated.
Also agree with your prior posts about people ignoring the source of the violence and not addressing the root causes. Just bringing out the pitchforks is a lot easier, I guess.
I think that as a general rule this is always a reasonable position. But it's hard to do after the video comes out.
But in not rushing to judgment, you nevertheless make unfounded assumptions, like there is no way that the Ravens organization would want to publicize Janay's apology when, in fact, that is precisely what they did.
Fixed.See, we can learn from each other here. Thank you for the intelligent discussion.McGarnicle said:
Goodell's a lawyer, and so trying to hide behind agency isn't going to be particularly credible coming from him, especially if it also involves willfull blindness.Sammy3469 said:Totally agree. Goodell and the NFL are being very careful saying the NFL itself didn't see it, but that still leaves people outside investigators to see it.Fennis said:I doubt Goodell watched the Rice video. I am close to 100% sure his investigators did.Premier said:Yea it's all over twitter now.I hope it's a video of Goodell watching the Rice video in May.GoBirds said:I dont Twitter......is this source legit?Stinger Ray said:I have a feelng this will cost Goodell his job.Premier said:@johnbreech: Looks like TMZ is going for Roger Goodell next. Harvey Levin today, "When you wake up tomorrow, you will see what the NFL didn't do."
Edit: email or phone conversation works too and is much more likely.
Good God if there is one thing I don't do is try to "build myself up" as superior to anyone. In fact there are plenty of threads I abstain from when it's clear I can't hold a candle to the intelligent discussion taking place. They say if you want to be a better tennis player, play with someone slightly better. That's why I love this place, I'm learning things all the time.If I come off as preachy or better than anyone, I'm sorry and I'll try to not do that. Feel free to put me on ignore too.
Because I feel like some people here do try to put forth their values and opinions as superior to all others, and never budge from a position, and I hate it.
I don't think you're one of those people. I would hope you don't think I am either.
Not at all. Starts with T and rhymes with im.
Nothing on the segment indicating that the NFL saw the video before today (other than it seems far-fetched that they didn't).
That's a parsing words answer. If you don't know, you say "I don't know." That sounds like someone who knows something he wishes he didn't and doesn't want to (get caught in a) lie about it. It's just a fancy way of saying "no comment", but in a way that might sound to some like "I don't know."
