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RB Alex Collins, SEA (3 Viewers)

I have to disagree here. Last year Rawls had a 3.2 ypc and missed ~1/2 the season, Prosise missed most of the season, and they still chose to use the later-released Christine Michael over him. This year during camp they had a yet-again injured Rawls and Prosise, a overweight Lacy, and Carson, who I like, but he's a rookie 7th round pick, yet they cut him.

It may or may not have any bearing on his prospects in Baltimore, but I wouldn't describe that as an embarrassment of riches myself.
He made all of his bonus weigh ins.
Yes they seemed absolutely thrilled with Lacy all offseason. Carroll was talking him up like crazy. 

Carroll and general manager John Schneider have long maintained that for the Seahawks to be their best, they need to not just run the ball well, but have a physical presence in the running game, which is why they wanted to add a physical back like Lacy.

That’s who we are and that’s who we want to continue to be, so that’s why we made this move,” Carroll said on the John Clayton Show.

On the Lacy signing in particular, Carroll said, “We’re excited. We’ve really respected his play, even going back to (the 2013 draft), because of the way he plays the game. He’s really tough, he’s physical, he’s a big load. He’s a big back in classic fashion, so he’s an exciting guy to add to the mix.

“Not everybody can be big and tough and strong, some guys are a different style, but when you’ve got one, man, it’s really special,” Carroll said. “We went all those years with Marshawn (Lynch), and everybody knew what we stood for and the style of play, so I’m hoping to just continue to add with Eddie and the way Thomas brings it, that’s a great one-two punch sending a message about playing tough and physical. That’s who we are and that’s who we want to continue to be, so that’s why we made this move.”

Eddie’s a terrific hand-eye guy. He can catch the football like crazy, he can run routes. People don’t necessarily see him that way, but it’s that all-around athleticism that kind of makes them such dynamic players. So we’re hoping we can bring out the very best of him.”

As for concerns about Lacy’s weight, something that at times was an issue for him in Green Bay, Carroll wants Lacy to be big, but in shape.  

“He’s a big back, he’s a big guy,” Carroll said. “There’s nothing wrong with that, but there will be a real concerted effort to make sure he’s at his very best. This is a hard time for him because he’s working some rehab right now, but he is well aware of our expectations and the standard that we’re setting. We would not have done this if we didn’t have a really clear understanding of how we’re going to go forward. This is a big deal for him, it’s a one-year contract for him. This is a chance for him to prove it and show where he is in the league and how he fits in and how he can work to secure a good future for himself. He knows all of that, and coming here is really something he’s pumped up about, because he knows how we see it too. We’re going to get him in great shape, we’re going to get him to show him at his very best. There’s a weight in there that’s a really good spot for him that he’s working towards, and we’ll do a nice job with that.”
At the time they cut Collins they thought they had a gem in Lacy. They also drafted Prosise with a reasonable investment. 

One thing to note: They had invested a pretty decent amount of money in Lacy and they are still hopeful he turns out. And if you don't think money has anything to do with it... Lacy gets $62,500 for every game he is active... yet he's been a healthy addition to the inactive list already this season. 

 
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Why did Arian Foster go undrafted?

Who was Priest Holmes?

Who was Willie Parker?

The NFL is littered with guys who were either cut, undrafted or came out of nowhere. He is a lotto ticket RB.....but I picked him up after his first playing time after watching every carry....because of this thread. Also picked up Carson after week 1 after simply watching him play.

Collins easily looks like the best pure runner on the team. Whether he get's the "opportunity" to be the guy remains a total unknown. But based on what I have seen? He deserves a bench spot on my squad for a little while as a wait and see. Well worth it as there is slim pickings now going into week 4. Every single owner in my redraft league were like....WTF? When I picked him up. Yesterday I got my first trade offer.

Also snaked him in my Dynasty league 2 weeks ago off waivers cutting Charles Sims for him.

I love his upside if he get's the chance.

 
I have to disagree here. Last year Rawls had a 3.2 ypc and missed ~1/2 the season, Prosise missed most of the season, and they still chose to use the later-released Christine Michael over him. This year during camp they had a yet-again injured Rawls and Prosise, a overweight Lacy, and Carson, who I like, but he's a rookie 7th round pick, yet they cut him.

It may or may not have any bearing on his prospects in Baltimore, but I wouldn't describe that as an embarrassment of riches myself.
He made all of his bonus weigh ins.
Yes they seemed absolutely thrilled with Lacy all offseason. Carroll was talking him up like crazy. Until they saw him in minicamp/practice and saw how slow he was. Suddenly the rave reviews and the media coverage of his weigh ins stopped. 

At the time they cut Collins they thought they had a gem in Lacy. They also drafted Prosise with a reasonable investment. 
Carroll talks up everyone like crazy, including guys like Michael (who went from the starter to cut mid-season), and 250 lbs. is still overweight for a RB.

Regardless, if you want to consider what they had at RB an embarrassment of riches, I'll agree to disagree.

 
Everyone was wondering what the heck I was doing when I picked him up a week ago, thanks to this thread and Weebs' man crush :heart:  on him ;)  

Now here I am with a pretty good lotto pick dangling out my RB3 to the guy who lost DJ and now Sproles and has to start Smallwood and Chris Johnson

 
Does anyone know why he got cut by Seattle? Obviously, there are plenty of examples of guys who got cut by one team and then established themselves with another, but it's not like the Seahawks had a bunch of HoFers in their backfield, ya know?
Good question. I am not sure why the Seahawks let him go but obviously they liked the RB they kept better than Collins.

They also cut Spencer Ware who went on to have some success with KC. So its not like they have haven't cut capable RBs before.

 
I have to disagree here. Last year Rawls had a 3.2 ypc and missed ~1/2 the season, Prosise missed most of the season, and they still chose to use the later-released Christine Michael over him. This year during camp they had a yet-again injured Rawls and Prosise, a overweight Lacy, and Carson, who I like, but he's a rookie 7th round pick, yet they cut him.

It may or may not have any bearing on his prospects in Baltimore, but I wouldn't describe that as an embarrassment of riches myself.
Disagree with the disagreement. Coming into the season SEA did seem like an embarrassment of riches. Yes, Rawls was dinged, but he was THE answer for this team's run game last year filling the role well when he was out there. Prosise was raw and still developing but showed potential as a 3rd down/passing back. Lacy was a great buy low candidate who looked to be capable of refocusing and getting back to the back He flashed in GB. And Carson has looked good anytime he touched the ball.

Depth, proven past success, future potential, youth - what was not to like?

Easy to call Lacy and Rawls overrate with hindsight. 

 
Disagree with the disagreement. Coming into the season SEA did seem like an embarrassment of riches. Yes, Rawls was dinged, but he was THE answer for this team's run game last year filling the role well when he was out there. Prosise was raw and still developing but showed potential as a 3rd down/passing back. Lacy was a great buy low candidate who looked to be capable of refocusing and getting back to the back He flashed in GB. And Carson has looked good anytime he touched the ball.

Depth, proven past success, future potential, youth - what was not to like?

Easy to call Lacy and Rawls overrate with hindsight. 
I tend to concur.  That backfield had/has a lot of talent 

Collins was actually drafted last year in our league as someone that might win out that backfield

 
Disagree with the disagreement. Coming into the season SEA did seem like an embarrassment of riches. Yes, Rawls was dinged, but he was THE answer for this team's run game last year filling the role well when he was out there. Prosise was raw and still developing but showed potential as a 3rd down/passing back. Lacy was a great buy low candidate who looked to be capable of refocusing and getting back to the back He flashed in GB. And Carson has looked good anytime he touched the ball.

Depth, proven past success, future potential, youth - what was not to like?

Easy to call Lacy and Rawls overrate with hindsight. 
Didn't mean to splash cold water on the new-Collins-owners fan club.  :lol:

Rawls was not only hurt (again), but coming off a season where he had a 3.2 ypc. Prosise was also hurt, just like the year before (and again right now). Lacy spent the final 2/3rds of the season on IR and is/was battling weight issues, which probably isn't a good thing for someone recovering from ankle surgery, and they were so sure that he'd be great that they gave him a 1 yr. deal with a bunch of incentives including weight clauses built in. Carson I agree with, but again, 7th round rookie pick, so far from any kind of certainty about him at the time. Besides that, what's not to like is the fact that they were 25th in the NFL in rushing last year (including Wilson, if you only count RBs they were ~30th), and they cut their leading rusher. Nothing about that situation screams "embarrassment of riches" at the RB position to me.

I noticed no one has even tried to explain 2016, when they didn't have Lacy and were missing Rawls and Prosise for big chunks of the year and still elected to utilize a guy they cut mid-season over him- why is that? Why did no other team deem him worthy of picking up his cheap rookie contract when he was cut- do they all have an embarrassment of riches at RB too?

Again, none of this means that he stinks, has no chance at fantasy success, etc., but I wouldn't go deluding myself into thinking he was blocked by a bunch of future HOFs. Maybe it was his poor pass pro, maybe it was his high fumble rate, maybe it was something else, but I'm not buying that there was just too much talent in front of him, certainly not when you look at last year.

 
Why did Arian Foster go undrafted?

Who was Priest Holmes?

Who was Willie Parker?

The NFL is littered with guys who were either cut, undrafted or came out of nowhere.
It's littered with about 1000 X more guys none of us have ever hear of.

 
I have to agree with humpback that calling the Seattle RBs and embarrassment of riches is way over the top.

If the other RB besides Carson were so great he never would have climbed the heap as quickly as he has.

 
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I have to agree with humpback that calling the Seattle RBs and embarrassment of riches is way over the top.

If the other RB besides Carson were so great he never would have climbed the heap as quickly as he has.
This is a good point but does this mean that Seattle didn't think they had an embarrassment of riches? This is the main question. Was Collins the worst of a bad situation or did Seattle think they didn't need him because they liked what else they had more? Obviously, in hindsight Seattle does not have too many great RBs. 

Maybe I'm seeing what I want to see, but I have to believe Seattle thought they had a better RB group than it turned out... but this could all be a moot point because the main issue with all of this could be the OL; Collins behind SEA's OL may not look as good as he is behind the BAL line

It's littered with about 1000 X more guys none of us have ever hear of.
True, we seem to go around and around this round-a-bout every time we talk about a player who isn't drafted in the first 2-3 rounds. Both sides of this argument are flawed (there are undrafted players that become stars, and lots of undrafted signees who are cut to become nobodies). I wish people would stop using that argument. 

 
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I tend to concur.  That backfield had/has a lot of talent 

Collins was actually drafted last year in our league as someone that might win out that backfield
Clearly Seattle believed more in Lacy and Rawls than they should have. In hindsight I bet they wish they had a redo and had kept Collins instead of Lacy. I'm actually kind of surprised that they have kept Lacy on their roster but that's another topic. Hopefully Baltimore will not continue with the West/Allen experiment and give Collins a chance. Their offense needs a spark and those guys aren't going to give it to them.  If the other guys struggle against Pittsburgh and he earns the lions share of the work he'll be in for a few good matchups in weeks 5-6.

 
RB Alex Collins ran hard again yesterday. Is he earning more reps with the way he is practicing and playing? (Todd Karpovich) 

“I would say so. Alex had a big game. He made guys miss and broke tackles and outran people and protected the football in a good way. Any player that plays well gets to play more. The responsibility grows as you play well.”

More of the same stuff from Harbaugh, except a little more detailed. The "protected the ball in a good way" maybe a shot at West for fumbling? Although we all know Collins fumbled last week. Perhaps things are looking up.

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/John-Harbaugh-Press-Conference-Transcript/9ac636a5-4ea7-4f29-98bf-60d20c5c660e

 
RB Alex Collins ran hard again yesterday. Is he earning more reps with the way he is practicing and playing? (Todd Karpovich) 

“I would say so. Alex had a big game. He made guys miss and broke tackles and outran people and protected the football in a good way. Any player that plays well gets to play more. The responsibility grows as you play well.”

More of the same stuff from Harbaugh, except a little more detailed. The "protected the ball in a good way" maybe a shot at West for fumbling? Although we all know Collins fumbled last week. Perhaps things are looking up.

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/John-Harbaugh-Press-Conference-Transcript/9ac636a5-4ea7-4f29-98bf-60d20c5c660e
Damn! I had dropped him last week but just snagged him again, dropped for Chris Johnson.

Sounds like they are gonna give him more carries, I don't see why they wouldn't.

 
RB Alex Collins ran hard again yesterday. Is he earning more reps with the way he is practicing and playing? (Todd Karpovich) 

“I would say so. Alex had a big game. He made guys miss and broke tackles and outran people and protected the football in a good way. Any player that plays well gets to play more. The responsibility grows as you play well.”

More of the same stuff from Harbaugh, except a little more detailed. The "protected the ball in a good way" maybe a shot at West for fumbling? Although we all know Collins fumbled last week. Perhaps things are looking up.

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/John-Harbaugh-Press-Conference-Transcript/9ac636a5-4ea7-4f29-98bf-60d20c5c660e
Now that's news. A straight, affirmative response from a HC regarding a player.

Dropped Perine for Collins.

 
WOW< I realize this was in garbage time and not sure if Jax was running with there twos, but holy cow this guys is fast, decisive, and cuts on a dime. Feed him!

https://youtu.be/jFccGRy7G1Q

https://youtu.be/uqQV2zWpUCA

https://youtu.be/vF1XOhp2EO0
Oh yeah, check out NFL Network's draft reel on him.

Funny thing is, it says "Willing Pass Protector" in his reel and I've seen numerous vids showing him to have decent hands to pass catch in limited opportunities. Pretty much means he's been bad at the NFL level in doing both then.

 
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hamsterdam said:
RB Alex Collins ran hard again yesterday. Is he earning more reps with the way he is practicing and playing? (Todd Karpovich) 

“I would say so. Alex had a big game. He made guys miss and broke tackles and outran people and protected the football in a good way. Any player that plays well gets to play more. The responsibility grows as you play well.”

More of the same stuff from Harbaugh, except a little more detailed. The "protected the ball in a good way" maybe a shot at West for fumbling? Although we all know Collins fumbled last week. Perhaps things are looking up.

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/John-Harbaugh-Press-Conference-Transcript/9ac636a5-4ea7-4f29-98bf-60d20c5c660e
Harbaugh and Roman need Collins to become 'something'. They need it for their system to work and for the offense to be productive and to win games.

 
Didn't mean to splash cold water on the new-Collins-owners fan club.  :lol:

Rawls was not only hurt (again), but coming off a season where he had a 3.2 ypc. Prosise was also hurt, just like the year before (and again right now). Lacy spent the final 2/3rds of the season on IR and is/was battling weight issues, which probably isn't a good thing for someone recovering from ankle surgery, and they were so sure that he'd be great that they gave him a 1 yr. deal with a bunch of incentives including weight clauses built in. Carson I agree with, but again, 7th round rookie pick, so far from any kind of certainty about him at the time. Besides that, what's not to like is the fact that they were 25th in the NFL in rushing last year (including Wilson, if you only count RBs they were ~30th), and they cut their leading rusher. Nothing about that situation screams "embarrassment of riches" at the RB position to me.

I noticed no one has even tried to explain 2016, when they didn't have Lacy and were missing Rawls and Prosise for big chunks of the year and still elected to utilize a guy they cut mid-season over him- why is that? Why did no other team deem him worthy of picking up his cheap rookie contract when he was cut- do they all have an embarrassment of riches at RB too?

Again, none of this means that he stinks, has no chance at fantasy success, etc., but I wouldn't go deluding myself into thinking he was blocked by a bunch of future HOFs. Maybe it was his poor pass pro, maybe it was his high fumble rate, maybe it was something else, but I'm not buying that there was just too much talent in front of him, certainly not when you look at last year.
You seem to be pointing out two factors to why the SEA backfield wasn't deep or good: 

1) They were injured. Not sure how that relates to talent and opportunity whatsoever. Injuries happen to both talented players and bench warming scrubs. The fact that Rawls and Prosise were dinged up doesn't have anything to do with their potential and ability when healthy. If the point is that they are fragile, I think your idea of a statistically significant sample size is way different than mine. Rawls signed May 2015; Prosise was a 3rd rounder in 2016 -- I will agree the three broken bones they've had over the last two years is not a good trend, but stuff happens in a contact sport at a position that takes tons of abuse. Unlucky, yes. But neither have had enough playing time to be labeled fragile or chronically injury-prone. 

2) Extreme myopia on stats and contribution focus. Are you seriously pointing to a ypc over the course of the two games he played last year before breaking his fibula? I've seen selective stats used before but this is sublimely ridiculous. Forget the fact that Rawls' career average is 4.6. Forget that this is a guy who in replacement for Lynch rushed for 104 yards the first time he was the featured back, followed by 169 yards (including a 69-yard TD) against the then undefeated Bengals, followed by 209 yards and 2 TDs against the 49ers. Rawls was the first player with 250-plus scrimmage yards, a rushing touchdown and a receiving touchdown in the same game in NFL history. The guy was Kareem Hunt before there was a Kareem Hunt. 

I've mentioned Prosise being a third rounder - maybe everyone after the first few selections are scrubs to you but that denotes some level of talent to me, and while he hasn't flashed greatness, CJ is far from a scrub, looking more comfortable in pass pro and in a 3rd down/COP role.

Lacy has been disappointing, but the provenance is there - a monster at Alabama and a contributor to 3 college championships, setting Packer records for mos rush yards and TDs in a season, an OPY winner and pro bowler, 2 straight 1k yard seasons, following up an injury riddled 2015 season with a 2016 season where (using a page from your book) he averaged 5.1 ypc.

Yes, he's had weight issues, but he made all weight related incentive milestones. Yes, he's been disappointing this year so far. But again, that's focusing just on the first three weeks of this year in hindsight - not at what the potential Lacy brought to the table coming to the Hawks, given what he's been able to in his career.

 
He is still sitting there in my 14 team dynasty and want to grab him but do you drop Mack, Higgins, or Darkwa for him..
I'm in a 16-teamer and dropped Mack weeks ago. Hurt and not doing anything. Higgins is droppable now IMHO.

EDIT: lol I didn't see Dynasty. Drop Higgins or Darkwa.

 
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I have to agree with humpback that calling the Seattle RBs and embarrassment of riches is way over the top.

If the other RB besides Carson were so great he never would have climbed the heap as quickly as he has.
Rawls is talented but injury prone. Prosise is talented but injury prone. Lacy is talented but over the hill. Carson is talented. The common denominator is talent and subsequent promise assuming optimal conditions (Rawls healthy, Prosise healthy, Lacy not washed).

I know SEA was painfully aware of both Rawls' and Prosise's injury history coming into the season but I'm assuming they were hoping to finally have them healthy this year. Assuming health, those two alone make for a great one-two punch. I'm also assuming they were hoping Lacy would look like he did in GB before going down last year, which was a guy who was leading he league in yards after contact - he looked good. On top of all this, Carson made a name for himself in OTAs and the preseason, carried it into the regular season and absolutely deserves to be leading this backfield right now. We're not dealing with a bunch of Robert Turbins here. If they kept a Robert Turbin type JAG over him I'd be worried.

 
FWIW I think @humpback has a point, that the fact the SEA decided to go with Michael over Collins is a red flag but in hindsight they clearly just made a bad decision. I've watched a lot of Michael and he very rarely if ever proved to have the vision or instincts that Collins has showcased in just two games with BAL. They probably just fell in love with the measurables like everyone else and would like to take a mulligan - just as they would probably like to take a mulligan with signing/keeping Lacy. 

 
Rawls is talented but injury prone. Prosise is talented but injury prone. Lacy is talented but over the hill. Carson is talented. The common denominator is talent and subsequent promise assuming optimal conditions (Rawls healthy, Prosise healthy, Lacy not washed).

I know SEA was painfully aware of both Rawls' and Prosise's injury history coming into the season but I'm assuming they were hoping to finally have them healthy this year. Assuming health, those two alone make for a great one-two punch. I'm also assuming they were hoping Lacy would look like he did in GB before going down last year, which was a guy who was leading he league in yards after contact - he looked good. On top of all this, Carson made a name for himself in OTAs and the preseason, carried it into the regular season and absolutely deserves to be leading this backfield right now. We're not dealing with a bunch of Robert Turbins here. If they kept a Robert Turbin type JAG over him I'd be worried.
Well I guess my opinion of these players talent differs from yours and others.

I do not think very highly of Rawls and I know he benefited from some unsustainable circumstances that helped his productivity, in the few games where he was actually productive. Against the Vikings for example when he played against them Linval Joseph, Anthony Barr and Harrison Smith were injured. He would not have done nearly as well in that game if not for these key players being out. I believe several of his other games were under similar circumstances.

I have never liked Prosise as a prospect, as you will see earlier on in this thread I stated that I thought Collins was the better RB they drafted that year despite being a much later pick.

Lacy greatly benefited from teams mostly focusing on stopping Aaron Rodgers and the pass, thus leaving Lacy with some pretty light boxes.

If we are just talking about the talent of the RB in a vacuum I think half the teams in the NFL have better RB than the Seahawks.

 
FWIW I think @humpback has a point, that the fact the SEA decided to go with Michael over Collins is a red flag but in hindsight they clearly just made a bad decision. I've watched a lot of Michael and he very rarely if ever proved to have the vision or instincts that Collins has showcased in just two games with BAL. They probably just fell in love with the measurables like everyone else and would like to take a mulligan - just as they would probably like to take a mulligan with signing/keeping Lacy. 
The Seahawks playing Michael over Collins last season could simply be attributable to Collins not being 100% ready with the playbook, pass pro, etc.

The coaches may have seen more talent, but if a guy is missing assignments, running the wrong route, etc., he's not going to see the field.

(Not saying this is what in fact occurred, just that it's a plausible explanation.)

 
The only thing that matters....is now. I see a back who is clearly running well. He is going to play more and more if he keeps this up.

 
Fair, but would you say Baltimore is one of them? I'd say no.
No I don't think Baltimore has more talented RB than the Seahawks. I would have to go through team by team. Maybe after doing that I would find the Seahawks RB as a group being a bit better than average, relative to the other 31 teams in the league. I'm not entirely sure about that. 

The competition for Collins to gain playing time isn't as difficult with the Ravens as it was with the Seahawks.

There is a type of RB that the Sehawks like. They are looking for another Marshawn Lynch. They have said many times they like a RB who runs hard and gains yards after contact. That might not be Collins best trait although I do think he is capable and has decent power, it isn't power like Lynch, Rawls or Carson who I think are all pretty powerful RB.

I have some bias against Lacy just because he was a Packer. I tend to see the worst in him. But he was a very good RB for a few years, as much as it pains me to admit it. I don't think he is that good anymore however. I am talking about todays Lacy, when we are talking about the groups talent level, not what he has been in the past. This would be applicable to Rawls as well.

Based on comments from Carrol about the type of  RB the Seahawks prefer, I think these players are more prone to being injured, because of their physicality, they take some really big hits from defenders as well as delivering them. I have always shied away from bruiser RB like this, because I think their running style causes them to be more likely to be injured than a slasher or more elusive RB who wins with agility more than power. The agile RB tend to not give defenders a clean hit on them most of the time.

Alex Collins in my opinion is more of a shifty RB with good burst and some elusiveness that I tend to prefer over the bruiser RB that the Sehawks prefer. So maybe that is part of why he did not fit with them.

 
How many more games of the same West / Collins production until we see a switch? 
Honestly, this Pitt game could be a great chance for Collins. Pitt just got destroyed by Cohen and Howard, if West starts out plodding and has one of those 8/24 lines the first half it's not out of the realm of possibility Collins sees alot of carries the 2nd half. From there he has to impress again... I'm not as bullish on Collins like other owners are, but 16 for 124 is 16 for 124, no matter how much of those carries came in garbage time.

 
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You seem to be pointing out two factors to why the SEA backfield wasn't deep or good: 

1) They were injured. Not sure how that relates to talent and opportunity whatsoever. Injuries happen to both talented players and bench warming scrubs. The fact that Rawls and Prosise were dinged up doesn't have anything to do with their potential and ability when healthy. If the point is that they are fragile, I think your idea of a statistically significant sample size is way different than mine. Rawls signed May 2015; Prosise was a 3rd rounder in 2016 -- I will agree the three broken bones they've had over the last two years is not a good trend, but stuff happens in a contact sport at a position that takes tons of abuse. Unlucky, yes. But neither have had enough playing time to be labeled fragile or chronically injury-prone. 

2) Extreme myopia on stats and contribution focus. Are you seriously pointing to a ypc over the course of the two games he played last year before breaking his fibula? I've seen selective stats used before but this is sublimely ridiculous. Forget the fact that Rawls' career average is 4.6. Forget that this is a guy who in replacement for Lynch rushed for 104 yards the first time he was the featured back, followed by 169 yards (including a 69-yard TD) against the then undefeated Bengals, followed by 209 yards and 2 TDs against the 49ers. Rawls was the first player with 250-plus scrimmage yards, a rushing touchdown and a receiving touchdown in the same game in NFL history. The guy was Kareem Hunt before there was a Kareem Hunt. 

I've mentioned Prosise being a third rounder - maybe everyone after the first few selections are scrubs to you but that denotes some level of talent to me, and while he hasn't flashed greatness, CJ is far from a scrub, looking more comfortable in pass pro and in a 3rd down/COP role.

Lacy has been disappointing, but the provenance is there - a monster at Alabama and a contributor to 3 college championships, setting Packer records for mos rush yards and TDs in a season, an OPY winner and pro bowler, 2 straight 1k yard seasons, following up an injury riddled 2015 season with a 2016 season where (using a page from your book) he averaged 5.1 ypc.

Yes, he's had weight issues, but he made all weight related incentive milestones. Yes, he's been disappointing this year so far. But again, that's focusing just on the first three weeks of this year in hindsight - not at what the potential Lacy brought to the table coming to the Hawks, given what he's been able to in his career.
1) Seriously? You don't see how the other RBs on a team being injured doesn't present an opportunity?

2) You seem to be extremely confused. Rawls played in 9 games last year, not 2. Remember, you said Rawls was "THE answer for this team's run game last year filling the role well when he was out there". Sorry, but a 3.2 ypc is neither "THE answer" nor "filling the role well".

Likewise, no idea what you're talking about with Prosise, I never even suggested that he's a scrub, just that he hasn't really proven anything and is constantly hurt.

Lol at bringing up Lacy's college accolades.

Yet again, how do you explain the lack of usage in 2016? Why did no other team deem him worthy of taking on his extremely cheap rookie contract after he was cut?  :tumbleweed:

 
FWIW I think @humpback has a point, that the fact the SEA decided to go with Michael over Collins is a red flag but in hindsight they clearly just made a bad decision. I've watched a lot of Michael and he very rarely if ever proved to have the vision or instincts that Collins has showcased in just two games with BAL. They probably just fell in love with the measurables like everyone else and would like to take a mulligan - just as they would probably like to take a mulligan with signing/keeping Lacy. 
Thanks for someone at least addressing the elephant in the room.

How is it clearly a bad decision? I agree that Michael is not very good, but its not clear at this point that Collins is better (he's looked good so far, but it's 16 carries). Seattle obviously didn't think so, and they had their opportunity to take a mulligan by not cutting him the following season...

 
He is still sitting there in my 14 team dynasty and want to grab him but do you drop Mack, Higgins, or Darkwa for him..
Depends on the rest off your line up but I'd say Mack most likely, The jury is still out on Higgins and Darkwa could be in line for more work when he's healthy.

 
Seattle had three similar pass catching backs in Rawls Prosise and Collins, four actually as Carson got good hands too, Eddie Lacey was kept to be a bruising push the pile goal line back in my humble opinion, not that he's looked all that great!  Collins is good we just didn't need his skills with so much of it already in the back field.

 
Seattle had three similar pass catching backs in Rawls Prosise and Collins, four actually as Carson got good hands too, Eddie Lacey was kept to be a bruising push the pile goal line back in my humble opinion, not that he's looked all that great!  Collins is good we just didn't need his skills with so much of it already in the back field.
seattle's offense can hardly score. posts about how seattle could hardly help but cut collins free because of all their rb talent are not grounded in reality.

 
seattle's offense can hardly score. posts about how seattle could hardly help but cut collins free because of all their rb talent are not grounded in reality.
You seriously have no idea what I was referencing and your comment is completely uninformed; so much so that I'm not going to bother to educate you regarding the Seahawks offence.

Cheers!

 
Thanks for someone at least addressing the elephant in the room.

How is it clearly a bad decision? I agree that Michael is not very good, but its not clear at this point that Collins is better (he's looked good so far, but it's 16 carries). Seattle obviously didn't think so, and they had their opportunity to take a mulligan by not cutting him the following season...
Collins is better than Michael. I pretty much always contended that Michael sucked though so Collins doesn't really need to clear a high bar for me personally. As for why they didn't take a mulligan the following year, I already covered it.

seattle's offense can hardly score. posts about how seattle could hardly help but cut collins free because of all their rb talent are not grounded in reality.
The last aspect of SEA's offense to place blame on for their struggles is their RBs. The problem is their OL and it's quite obvious to anyone who has even been remotely paying attention.

 
Seattle had three similar pass catching backs in Rawls Prosise and Collins, four actually as Carson got good hands too, Eddie Lacey was kept to be a bruising push the pile goal line back in my humble opinion, not that he's looked all that great!  Collins is good we just didn't need his skills with so much of it already in the back field.


You seriously have no idea what I was referencing and your comment is completely uninformed; so much so that I'm not going to bother to educate you regarding the Seahawks offence.

Cheers!
Um, no offense but if you think Rawls, Prosise, and Collins are "similar pass catching backs", I think your second post applies to you as well.

 
Collins is better than Michael. I pretty much always contended that Michael sucked though so Collins doesn't really need to clear a high bar for me personally. As for why they didn't take a mulligan the following year, I already covered it.
I have the same pretty low bar for Michael, but I'd contend that we haven't seen enough out of Collins to conclusively say that he was better and it was clearly a mistake to not play him over Michael (I think it was, but the jury is still out). There's a lot that goes into what makes up a "good" RB besides just running the ball as well, maybe his deficiencies elsewhere is what kept him off the field and/or got him cut?

So we're thinking Seattle wants to take a double-mulligan on Collins-first for not playing him over Michael and then for cutting him? I mean, it's possible, but it just seems much more likely that they simply didn't think he was good. That doesn't mean they won't end up being wrong in their evaluation, or that he didn't/won't improve, or maybe the Ravens are 1 of a few teams with less talent at the RB position, but I just don't see how he had some insurmountable path to playing time/a roster spot there.

 
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If we are just talking about the talent of the RB in a vacuum I think half the teams in the NFL have better RB than the Seahawks.
Fair, but would you say Baltimore is one of them? I'd say no.
If it's fair to say that half the league has better RBs than the Seahawks, then factor in the injury/lack of experience/weight issues that those RBs possess (has to be more than the average NFL team), how does that equate to an embarrassment of riches at the position?

I realize that this is a bit of a tangent and I'll hop off now, but I do think it's relevant when trying to figure out why he didn't get much of an opportunity in Seattle. IMO the "there was simply too much talent in front of him" argument is wishful thinking from new Alex Collins owners, but I hope he does well in Baltimore as I took a flyer as well.

 
@humpback I don't think you understand. They THOUGHT they had tons of RB talent. It is really not a hard concept to understand.

Edit: I'm also not sure what this has to do with Collins producing on the Ravens?

 
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Collins lost weight this offseason, and by all accounts, he impressed the Seattle coaching staff.  Mike Davis was also impressive this preseason.  i don't know if Collins was seen as a contributor on Special Teams, and perhaps that played a part in his failure to stick in Seattle, but I really think it was simply a matter of too many backs.  Seattle was almost certainly going to keep Lacy, Rawls and Prosise, and Carson had been the talk of camp.  It really came down to Carson, Collins and Davis battling for one spot, so Seattle tried to shop Collins around to determine if there was trade interest (just as they did with Kearse).  Finding no suitors, they had to make the difficult decision to release Collins.  Things could not have worked out better for Collins, however.   He looks more dynamic than West, so he should continue to garner increasing reps in the offense.

 

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