"In his most recent mock draft, ESPN's Todd McShay projected Stanford RB Christian McCaffrey to the Eagles at No. 14.
McCaffrey impressed in both athletic testing and drills at the NFL Scouting Combine several weeks ago. He has seen a subsequent ascension in his draft stock. Indeed, McShay's mock actually has him jumping over FSU RB Dalvin Cook, whom the analyst pegs to the Redskins at No. 17. McShay believes that McCaffrey's "elite character" could serve as a tiebreaker for some teams when deciding between Cook and C-Mac."
I'm just wondering when "elite character" moved the chains, broke tackles, outran defenders, or moved piles....This is probably the least important trait for a RB. RBs are typically knuckleheads or at least you have a 50/50 chance of being one. AP = knucklehead. Leveon Bell = knucklehead. Chris Johnson = knucklehead. Zeke Elliot = knucklehead. Who are the elite character NFL RBs? Their names escape me right now......
That man had elite speed. McCaffrey does not. I agree that availability is a skill set and knucklehead behavior sometimes limits that availability, but production matters when a guy takes the field. My point is that being a knucklehead goes with the position more times than not. Elite character does not equal "can't miss" at the RB position. I know a lot of good guys, but that doesn't mean they can break tackles, run a 4.35, or move a pile of large men to ensure another set of downs.
Those guys are WRs, and I agree that character matters much more for WRs. WRs have a number of considerations when evaluating them as players; character, work ethic, coachability, and chemistry with the QB are very important. And David Johnson is a nice kid but he's also 224 lbs. Size does matter in today's NFL, and DJ has that size and skill set to be an every down runner.
224 lbs vs 202 lbs. Johnson is also a converted WR. Maybe McCaffrey converts to WR, in which case I will like him more.
BTW, you don't move a pile of men with character, you move it with mass and strength.
I'm not in love with Dalvin Cook for the same reasons if he actually weighs in at 202 lbs and still runs the 40 around 4.5, but "elite character" is not really relevant when discussing potential RB production for fantasy football purposes and has never been a topic of conversation when factoring RB ranks until McCaffrey, unless I am mistaken....Again, this is why I asked who the elite character Rbs are out there. Johnson gets mentioned today but that was certainly not something mentioned in fantasy circles two years ago, and I was as high on DJ as anyone out there. I overvalued him and landed him in 6 of my 10 leagues. (you can see what I thought about DJ on pages 2 and 3 of David Johnson's thread if you are curious, but Rotoworld hated the guy while they were pimping 199 lb Ellington....called DJ an H back or some kind of garbage at the time) And it's safe to say his production is what gets him ranked where he is today, not character.I am confused why you seem to be focusing on this "elite character" thing as if it was listed as his primary strength when the reality is that it was just listed as a tiebreaker. All he was saying is that if teams have Cook/McCaffrey ranked similarly than the character difference may be a reason why they ultimately decide on McCaffrey.
It's doubly odd that you seem to be focusing on how it doesn't make up for 25lbs of size when the player it was referenced as a tiebreaker with weighs a whopping 8lbs more than McCaffrey.
224 lbs vs 202 lbs. Johnson is also a converted WR. Maybe McCaffrey converts to WR, in which case I will like him more.
BTW, you don't move a pile of men with character, you move it with mass and strength.
I am very aware. Thanks. This isn't NCAA.The idea is to avoid piles by identifying a seam and exploding through it. "Getting skinny" going through the line is a lot more valuable than running into a scrum. McCaffrey was very solid between the tackles at Stanford, in case you weren't aware. I'd have to assume by your comments that you aren't.
I am very aware. Thanks. This isn't NCAA.
not one person said it was"elite character" is not really relevant when discussing potential RB production for fantasy football purposes and has never been a topic of conversation when factoring RB ranks
Size matters for every down RBs. If he is going to fill the Dion Lewis, Darren Sproles, Woodhead, scatback role, his size is fine and his production will likely be inline with those RBs. Use the guy in space and leave the early down work to the big boys.I had to ask. Your comments give the impression that you are basing your judgment on his weight alone. One can't help but think you are not familiar with his play in the least.
Just pointing out the silly things rotoworld focuses on...not one person said it was
Size matters for every down RBs. If he is going to fill the Dion Lewis, Darren Sproles, Woodhead, scatback role, his size is fine and his production will likely be inline with those RBs. Use the guy in space and leave the early down work to the big boys.
So now he's Terrell Davis if he puts on weight. Gotcha.If he puts on 6 lbs he'd be the exact same height/weight as Terrell Davis - and TD always got lighter as the season wore on. I guess TD wouldn't qualify as anything but a scatback per your criteria.
you seem to be the one focusing on it - the rotoworld blurb mentioned McShay saying it "could serve as a tiebreaker" for NFL teams deciding between McCaffrey and Cook.Just pointing out the silly things rotoworld focuses on...
you seem to be quoting me that I am making fun of rotoworld....you seem to be the one focusing on it - the rotoworld blurb mentioned McShay saying it "could serve as a tiebreaker" for NFL teams deciding between McCaffrey and Cook.
So now he's Terrell Davis if he puts on weight. Gotcha.
Haha...ok....Show me all of the productive 5'11" / 202 lb RBs who run around 4.5 w/o pads in the past 10 years. McCaffrey had 2 months to prep for the combine and add weight. He ended up at 202. And that weight is good for his frame. Not good for an NFL RB, but good for his frame.That isn't what I said, is it? You can always tell how weak a person's position is by how quickly they'll throw up strawmen.
First you bring up "high character" as an issue, which lets be clear, it is not. Then you ask for guys who are high character guys that have been productive, we all say DJ basically, and yet you change your argument to size/weight. Be clear from the get go.Haha...ok....Show me all of the productive 5'11" / 202 lb RBs who run around 4.5 w/o pads in the past 10 years. McCaffrey had 2 months to prep for the combine and add weight. He ended up at 202. And that weight is good for his frame. Not good for an NFL RB, but good for his frame.
There's not a single person in this thread that hasn't seen the argument made about what McCaffrey's role will be. Some say he can add weight and sacrifice some of his quickness/speed for power, some say he's best suited for a passing down role. But literally everyone has said his minimum role is roughly 10-15 touches a game. So what exactly are you saying?
Thanks, it's not and I am not altering my argument or position at all. My posts have been very clear on previous pages that he is being overvalued as a fantasy asset and elite character doesn't move the needle.First you bring up "high character" as an issue, which lets be clear, it is not. Then you ask for guys who are high character guys that have been productive, we all say DJ basically, and yet you change your argument to size/weight. Be clear from the get go.
There's not a single person in this thread that hasn't seen the argument made about what McCaffrey's role will be. Some say he can add weight and sacrifice some of his quickness/speed for power, some say he's best suited for a passing down role. But literally everyone has said his minimum role is roughly 10-15 touches a game. So what exactly are you saying?
Bad example. Ray Rice was pretty effective for 4 seasons. McCaffrey and most RBs dream of that kind of production. If I thought he would turn out to be Ray Rice in terms of production, I would buy him in a heartbeat!Tell Ray Rice that character is not a factor.
They only hold character against you if you can't play anymore.Tell Ray Rice that character is not a factor.
Dude, I get what you're saying. You see all these people saying he's their top rookie RB, or that they're trying to trade up to get him and like me you don't agree because you see him as a niche, change of pace, committee back. Nothing wrong with that, as I believe it will play out that way.Thanks, it's not and I am not altering my argument or position at all. My posts have been very clear on previous pages that he is being overvalued as a fantasy asset and elite character doesn't move the needle.
I will say however, the only landing spot I might like him would be KC with Andy Reid. He has demonstrated on a number of occasions he knows how to maximize players with roughly his size and skill set. RB isn't a priority for KC and his draft position is likely too high to get him, but that would be an ideal scenario for him.
Joe Mixon?Bad example. Ray Rice was pretty effective for 4 seasons. McCaffrey and most RBs dream of that kind of production. If I thought he would turn out to be Ray Rice in terms of production, I would buy him in a heartbeat!
Which is especially funny because he weighed in at 195lbs at the combine and ran a 40 somewhere in the 4.45 - 4.49 range, which you basically said is impossible to ever amount to a feature back or fantasy stud.Bad example. Ray Rice was pretty effective for 4 seasons. McCaffrey and most RBs dream of that kind of production. If I thought he would turn out to be Ray Rice in terms of production, I would buy him in a heartbeat!
I'm not in love with Dalvin Cook for the same reasons if he actually weighs in at 202 lbs and still runs the 40 around 4.5, but "elite character" is not really relevant when discussing potential RB production for fantasy football purposes and has never been a topic of conversation when factoring RB ranks until McCaffrey, unless I am mistaken....Again, this is why I asked who the elite character Rbs are out there. Johnson gets mentioned today but that was certainly not something mentioned in fantasy circles two years ago, and I was as high on DJ as anyone out there. I overvalued him and landed him in 6 of my 10 leagues. (you can see what I thought about DJ on pages 2 and 3 of David Johnson's thread if you are curious, but Rotoworld hated the guy while they were pimping 199 lb Ellington....called DJ an H back or some kind of garbage at the time) And it's safe to say his production is what gets him ranked where he is today, not character.
This.
YOU are the one who brought up the elite character stuff, quoting an article where someone mentioned it as a minor point and a tiebreaker in a discussion that had nothing to do with fantasy football, then started arguing with yourself about it.
This is one of the most bizarre exchanges I've ever seen. It's not even a straw man. It's something beyond that. You made up an argument yourself out of thin air, then went full on double strawman about your own made-up argument. It's like an imaginary double reverse straw-man self-argument. That's uncharted territory so.....congrats on that, I guess.
No, someone posted rotoworld, and I critiqued the need for elite character. Others countered my criticism (maybe you didn't but others did. Have someone read them to you if necessary) and you came to defend McCaffrey again right on cue. I realize you can't help yourself, and that's ok. McCaffrey's weaknesses are not masked by "elite character".
YOU are the one who brought up the elite character stuff, quoting an article where someone mentioned it as a minor point and a tiebreaker in a discussion that had nothing to do with fantasy football, then started arguing with yourself about it.
This is one of the most bizarre exchanges I've ever seen. It's not even a straw man. It's something beyond that. You made up an argument yourself out of thin air, then went full on double strawman about your own made-up argument. It's like an imaginary double reverse straw-man self-argument. That's uncharted territory so.....congrats on that, I guess.
Did I say that? Show me where. What is his height? Any clue? What weight did he actually play at when he took over full time duties? He and Mojo were very similar to me in that they played like bowling balls between the tackles because their center of gravity was much lower. Both of those guys carried most of their weight in their legs.Which is especially funny because he weighed in at 195lbs at the combine and ran a 40 somewhere in the 4.45 - 4.49 range, which you basically said is impossible to ever amount to a feature back or fantasy stud.
As far as I can tell (but maybe some one can re-read the last few pages to me) this is what happened:No, someone posted rotoworld, and I critiqued the need for elite character. Others countered my criticism (maybe you didn't but others did. Have someone read them to you if necessary) and you came to defend McCaffrey again right on cue. I realize you can't help yourself, and that's ok. McCaffrey's weaknesses are not masked by "elite character".
Borden and Zyphros chimed in, but hey, don't let that interrupt your narrative....I'm sorry you can't read man, whatever....As far as I can tell (but maybe some one can re-read the last few pages to me) this is what happened:
Todd McShay said, in support of his mock draft, that some teams may break a tie between McCaffrey and Cook by looking at their characters and you then spent a page and a half arguing with ???? (no one?) how elite character has no business in fantasy football evaluations - a position that not one person took (including the Rotoworld blurb that set you off).
You may want to go back and re-read what they said. Borden in particular was only offering an explanation of what McShay was saying (i.e.why character may matter to NFL teams in their evaluation process).Borden and Zyphros chimed in, but hey, don't let that interrupt your narrative....I'm sorry you can't read man, whatever....
You turned it into something waaaayyyy more than that. No one thinks that McCaffrey will be a fantasy stud RB because he's never beat up a woman.I think boxing it as position specific you're setting yourself for failure. Most guys at skills positions are diva personalities. There's always exceptions. Marvin Harrison and Amari Cooper at WR come to mind off the top of my head. I could be wrong but isn't David Johnson considered to have great character? The thing you don't have to worry about is them not putting the time in. That's pretty valuable when an organization is paying 10's of millions of dollars. That's the whole reason why Mixon is the discussion of the year.
Now that is a bizarre statement.You may want to go back and re-read what they said. Borden in particular was only offering an explanation of what McShay was saying (i.e.why character may matter to NFL teams in their evaluation process). You turned it into something waaaayyyy more than that. No one thinks that McCaffrey will be a fantasy stud RB because he's never beat up a woman.
+2It's been a good week for the ignore button.
McCaffrey's bench sucks, man. Not to mention that he's a white running back.+2
can we get this thread back on track please?
Let's discuss some of the ideal landing spots.
GB, IND... do we like PHI?
I'd see Philly as a plus since they are running the Reid offense that made similar guys like Westbrook* and Charles* successful.Let's discuss some of the ideal landing spots.
GB, IND... do we like PHI?
Only if/when NE trades w/ NO to get back in the early parts would this be an option. All NE RB's are FA after the 17 season, so that's an interesting side note.I stated this thought in the GB thread: If McCaffrey lands in GB you might have a D-proof offense. With Cobb, Montgomery, and McCaffrey you'd have 3 guys on the field that can line up in the backfield, in the slot, or out wide. GB could run almost any formation and play without changing out personnel. Those 3 sharing carries would allow for 30 rushes a game without killing any of them. Ds couldn't sub out when they find themselves mismatched. Scary.
I'd hate it if he went to NE because I really like the kid and would have to root against him. Hate to see him in CHI or DET for the same reason, but both spots would mean big numbers for him I think.
DEN is a great spot and pairing him with Anderson would give them the backfield they hoped for when they drafted Booker. NO would be an awesome spot for him. SD would be great for him. PHI would certainly be interesting. TB would definitely be interesting. KC and Reid coaching would be an almost ideal spot.
GB it kind of makes sense but then they have a upgraded version of Ty. I don't think CMC is a true RB that they need though. If I were GB I'd be looking for more of a grinder to close out games.Let's discuss some of the ideal landing spots.
GB, IND... do we like PHI?
As an Eagles fan, I'm hoping they don't take him.Let's discuss some of the ideal landing spots.
GB, IND... do we like PHI?
I like him in any of those spot including phillyLet's discuss some of the ideal landing spots.
GB, IND... do we like PHI?
Because you like losing??? ?As an Eagles fan, I'm hoping they don't take him.