Interseptopus
Footballguy
If he fails and you want to be a tool about it, I'm sure itll give you a tingle down the leg.
if hes successful it wont need to be bumped
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RB Darrell Henderson, LAR (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Interseptopus
- Start date
if hes successful it wont need to be bumped
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Uh, no idea why the word "tool" was used. There are widely varying opinions in this thread, expressed in somewhat arrogant and inflexible ways at times. Those types of threads are the most interesting to revisit.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Same. I'm not expecting a lot. Just felt he was worth reaching for a little, within my range.
Honestly one thing I haven't got a good sense of is the medical risk of Gurley's knees. All I know is it shocked the hell out of me when he was as limited as he was in the fantasy/real playoffs last year.
And I had been quietly wondering all offseason leading up to the draft whether the Rams might take an early RB. And they did. Not an according to Hoyle 1st round early RB, but they gave a lot to move up a little. And I really think a late 2nd early 3rd NFL draft RB is an early RB. In 2019 anyway.
My best expectation is that it will be a split backfield and Henderson's ceiling will be capped. And that he will have a modest, possibly flex worthy floor. I don't want Gurley to get injured or hurt worse, but if he does then Henderson could be a league winner. Said it before, I'd rather roll that dice on the last RB in the top tier, than on one of maybe eight WRs that will likely be available at a little bit later pick anyway.
DropKick
Footballguy
Lots of threads would be a joy to revisit. Actually, all the Henderson discussion has given me flashbacks of last season's Aaron Jones/Jamaal Williams and Alex Collins debates. You want arrogant and inflexible? Ah, those were the good old days!
TripItUp
Footballguy
A lot of experts that get paid to do fantasy analysis and are on networks like ESPN disagree with you.
Many expect Henderson might carry more of the load because they anticipate McVay will want to better manage Gurley's workload.
Astonishing how overlooked the Gurley situation is by some of the anti-Henderson crowd. It's as if the playoffs didn't happen.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
What is being disagreed with? I didn't say Gurley is gonna get 90% of the touches or something.
TripItUp
Footballguy
You made this statement
you assume that Henderson will only be a "COP backup" if Gurley doesn't have issues.
A lot of people disagree with that assumption.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
If Gurley is totally healthy. I can see 30-40% touches. No more. Maybe less.
How far off base am I?
TripItUp
Footballguy
And that contradicts your statement
Not trying to do a "gotcha" here...just trying to keep the narrative straight.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I mean, I am VERY confident the Rams will scale back gurleys workload quite a bit even if he is 100% healthy, but let's not act like he wont be the "starter" who gets most of the work.
Assuming it's a split is a bad assumption IMO.
Assuming it's a split is a bad assumption IMO.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
You could simply ask me to elaborate further, or ask me a specific question. It helps sometimes.
TripItUp
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
Assuming Gurley will come remotely close to his touches this year is an even worse assumption IMHO.
We truly don't know what's going on with Gurley.
And then there's this report from Rotoworld...
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TripItUp
Footballguy
ffmail4me
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
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TripItUp
Footballguy
ffmail4me
Footballguy
I never said same touches, but he's good enough with his touches to still put up double digit TDs and involved in the passing game enough to get 1500 total yards. Unless you really believe he suddenly is in a 50/50 time share. I just don't believe that will happen. And I like Henderson, and have him in MULTIPLE leagues. But I didn't draft him with the expectation that he comes in and Gurley is suddenly Ingram.
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TripItUp
Footballguy
LIke I said, I would definitely take the under on 1500 yards...we really don't know what's up with the knee.
The Rams were so confident in Gurley they spent one of the highest picks in the draft on RB and matched Brown's substantial offer.
Fantasy players starting to connect the dots slowly as well as Gurley's ADP has seen a steady decline since the draft.
Henderson is downright explosive, he's not a JAG...and he does several things better than Gurley. He's going to get his right away IMHO.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
It's also quite possible the Rams dont know the status of gurleys current and/or long term health which led them to make other moves.
I think he gets scaled back no matter what with almost 100% certainty, but there is a chance he doesn't.
I think he gets scaled back no matter what with almost 100% certainty, but there is a chance he doesn't.
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Based on multiple reports I read Gurley could have put himself in the games late last year if he wanted. If you recall he had no issue letting CJ Anderson operate goal line touches, even on some series that Gurley helped get them down the field. He did not strike me as the kind of player who has to get the TD's, does not seem wired that way.
Also when we first started to hear about Gurley getting a likely reduced role some people tried to cling to fact he'd just get used more in space, used more as a receiver. Based on RB usage last year I don't think that's the case. During the SB and other playoff games for instance his RB rotation of Anderson/Gurley seemed completely unfazed by down, distance or situation. Gurley's touches were actually low compared to his snap count and that's because McVay does not want to be predictable and that's why I don't think you'll see their RB's doing specialized roles like designated goal line or passing down back.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Maybe Gurley WANTS a reduced load. He already signed his long term deal. He should welcome a split.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I don’t understand you at times and wonder if you’ve ever watched the players you address when you make comments like the one above, which you seem to do with regularity.
I have yet to see a scouting report that doesn’t list elusiveness as one of Henderson’s greatest attributes, if not the greatest. He’s been ranked by scouting team after scouting team as one of the top 2 most elusive RBs in this class. You can watch all sorts of film that shows tons of evidence of his ability to jump cut or to change his angle of attack and then blow by tacklers.
This isn’t a matter of opinion. This is posting something that is completely contrary to a plethora of well documented and easily accessed facts. You may want to take a look at some of his game films and then perhaps reconsider this post.
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Raptors409
Footballguy
First, he was undervalued and nobody cared. Then, he became overvalued and everybody got angry.
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Raptors409
Footballguy
ZWK
Footballguy
This play (0:25) against UCF is a nice example of how Henderson can beat defenders in space. He doesn't use any fancy ankle-breaking jukes, but he gets by 2 guys.
There is nice blocking on the play which gives Henderson a relatively clean lane to run through at the line of scrimmage, and Henderson shows good burst through the hole. UCF #25 closes fast to fill the lane and looks to be in great position to meet Henderson 3 yards past the line of scrimmage. Henderson cuts to his left while continuing downhill with speed, putting #25 out of position. When they meet, #25 is mostly moving sideways, leaning to his right and turning to try to get his left arm around to contribute to the tackle. By that point, Henderson has gotten his feet squarely back under him, lowered his shoulder, and is headed straight downhill with power. He's able to run right through the attempted tackle while keeping his balance and his downhill momentum. A yard later his head is back up and he is eyeing the next defender. This time there is much more space to maneuver, and Henderson uses that space plus his speed to turn left and basically just run around the defender.
He does sometimes show more of a juke, like against the Georgia State safety here (1:37, replay at 1:54).
There is nice blocking on the play which gives Henderson a relatively clean lane to run through at the line of scrimmage, and Henderson shows good burst through the hole. UCF #25 closes fast to fill the lane and looks to be in great position to meet Henderson 3 yards past the line of scrimmage. Henderson cuts to his left while continuing downhill with speed, putting #25 out of position. When they meet, #25 is mostly moving sideways, leaning to his right and turning to try to get his left arm around to contribute to the tackle. By that point, Henderson has gotten his feet squarely back under him, lowered his shoulder, and is headed straight downhill with power. He's able to run right through the attempted tackle while keeping his balance and his downhill momentum. A yard later his head is back up and he is eyeing the next defender. This time there is much more space to maneuver, and Henderson uses that space plus his speed to turn left and basically just run around the defender.
He does sometimes show more of a juke, like against the Georgia State safety here (1:37, replay at 1:54).
LawFitz
Footballguy
Darnell runs upright and stiff, which is why his cuts are rounded/soft. But he is very explosive when running straight ahead, with an excellent top gear if/when he breaks upfield.
He runs hard but his frame won't last running that way and his lack of lateral agility will catch up to him when he's playing NFL defenses.
As a COP to Gurley, especially with Magic McVay scheming, Darwin will do some major damage. But put him in a lead role where he's the one to wear down D's and the opposite will happen.
Fully realize I come across as hating the guy, but I don't at all. I think he'll do great as the Rams COP. Just not sure what that's worth in fantasy, and feel fairly confident it isn't worth #1 overall in rookie drafts, as some (many?) suggested upthread.
The guy he reminds me of the most is Alex Collins, tho Darrion is clearly more explosive and on a MUCH better offense.
He runs hard but his frame won't last running that way and his lack of lateral agility will catch up to him when he's playing NFL defenses.
As a COP to Gurley, especially with Magic McVay scheming, Darwin will do some major damage. But put him in a lead role where he's the one to wear down D's and the opposite will happen.
Fully realize I come across as hating the guy, but I don't at all. I think he'll do great as the Rams COP. Just not sure what that's worth in fantasy, and feel fairly confident it isn't worth #1 overall in rookie drafts, as some (many?) suggested upthread.
The guy he reminds me of the most is Alex Collins, tho Darrion is clearly more explosive and on a MUCH better offense.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Who?
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
barackdhouse
Footballguy
cloppbeast
Footballguy
BB, you are too funny. But I'll leave it at that, don't need a reprimand you know.Bronco Billy said:
I have watched a few of his games, the cut ups on YouTube, along the way forming my own opinion. Consensus be damned. I thought you'd be proud of me BB.
Elusive? Yeah, I dont know. It's such a buzz word. Semantics really. Henderson does have a knack for using a defender's trajectory against him. And he forces a lot of bad angles to get by them, like the video zwk posted above. Nobody questions his burst. I've seen him run right past a guy, like the guy couldnt even react fast enough. Pretty amazing.
Jukes though? Nah. Change of direction, fluidity or whatever, not one of his strengths. He's sort of straight line-ish when he gets going. Ask ebf if you dont believe me.
Henderson has a lot of things to like, but I question whether he makes hay in the open field against NFL defenders. How well does his style translate when hes not the fastest guy they've ever seen? They will be taking better angles than the guys at SMU. I'd really feel better about it if he had some Chris Johnson speed, or even Jerick McKinnon.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
You make some very good points. I'd feel better about Henderson if he had outstanding speed instead of just good speed. His good speed is going to be matched MUCH more often in the NFL which is why escapability traits (especially in traffic) are so crucial for smaller (lighter) feature backs.
My concern with Henderson isn't nearly as much about his ability to be a quality COP as it is being a legit feature back (which is what he's being drafted as by many FFers).
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cloppbeast
Footballguy
Thats about the best I've seen out of him, as far as making a move. I say impressive. Henderson makes easy work of defenders approaching at an angle. Hes savvy about it.ZWK said:
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Not to mention some guy named Todd Gurley. That alone caps his upside for the first few years even assuming he's all he's cracked up to be.
To me, he could serve as feature back if an offense really needed one. Not going to be a running back a coach gameplans to have 15-20 touches a game. Like you said, better as some part of a tandem. Have to think thats what the Rams want to do with him.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Prior to 2019, was Kamara a feature back?
What about Miles Sanders being drafted top 4, playing on a team that has never used a feature back?
Or Montgomery going to a team with a passing back in Cohen?
What percent of carries did Dalvin Cook get in 2018?
Is Sony Michel really a "feature back?" He was drafted to be by his owners much higher than Henderson is going.
How did CJ Anderson do as a COP with Gurley?
Point is, you can be a hot comodity in fantasy and not be a "feature back."
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Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I suppose it’s just way too much to hope just once you’d admit you were wrong.
https://mobile.twitter.com/obee1ne/status/1092791781022928902
check the second run on the video here
https://www.google.com/amp/s/theramswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/28/rams-highlights-darrell-henderson-draft/amp/
I can find lots more
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LawFitz
Footballguy
The guy in these vids that actually ran with forward lean and made a sharpe cut was Miles Sanders. Meanwhile the Donovan Henderson highlight shows one lateral move over five minutes of big runs, and if you compare the two you can easily see how much sharper Sanders' move was.
If you have a draft coming up and would like to draft Henderson try and find some way to get your league members to read this: Projecting season stats for Rams rookies
TripItUp
Footballguy
cloppbeast
Footballguy
You could start with actual clip of Henderson, not Miles Sanders. And not a highlight video either.
You could also make reasoned reply so we could have a discussion. Instead of, you know, normal Bronco Billy stuff.
