how on earth was he clearly the guy, when KC moved up in the third round to select Hunt?Chaka said:I won't discount Ware entirely, he was clearly the guy heading into last season. And he has flashed at times rushing in 2015 and receiving in 2016. He's going to get opportunities and should eat into Hunt's rushing market share more than West did. Hunt had what I believe to be a whopping 79% of KCs non-QB rushes last season (maybe someone can shed some light on if that is unusually high).
But I am also thinking we will see a slight bump in percentage of rushing attempts and more dump offs to RBs. Particularly if Reid lets Bienemy call games.
Bottom line is I don't see any more road blocks than any of the other guys we are talking about. Honestly I see fewer road blocks for Hunt than with any of them other than Melvin Gordon.
I think people put a little too much stock in 3rd round draft capital. Drafting Hunt was as much an indictment on West as anything.how on earth was he clearly the guy, when KC moved up in the third round to select Hunt?
Winning the rushing title has not been a good predictor of following year success.Buckna said:Yeah, I question if the guy who led the league in rushing last year is the best back on his own team too.
Huh? Ware was 13th in the league in yards from scrimmage in 2016. He had more yards from scrimmage than Antonio Brown even though he played 1 fewer game. How is that the “definition of JAG”?bicycle_seat_sniffer said:Ware is the definition of JAG
Agree that this is the point for Hunt. He had a perfect situation last season. QB Smith had a career year and was elite. Other than Hunt himself, the team only had 2 quality targets in the passing game. Incumbent starting RB was hurt in preseason and out for the year. He had an OC that used him heavily.But that's the point. Even great running backs suffered setbacks after their best years. It takes a lot of good luck to win a rushing title, and it's hard to repeat that good luck, good health, good schedule, wear and tear on the body, coach deciding not to give you a rest, changing teammates, etc.
proof you can make stats say anything......he was 16th RB in 2016 via FBG scoring....his ypc was 4.3....generally RBs that don't share touches get a high TOTAL yards count, where as WRs dont get carries thus their total yards volume is generally low in comparison to high touch RBs.....your point is pretty meaningless...as great as he was he didn't break 1k yards rushing that season......JAG...volume player in 2016...…. a 3rd round pick is a decent amount of capital to invest in a position if you feel you have someone special at the spot, which KC didn't feel Ware was.....we will never know how 2017 would of played out due to injury but Im guessing Hunt would of taken over at some point....Huh? Ware was 13th in the league in yards from scrimmage in 2016. He had more yards from scrimmage than Antonio Brown even though he played 1 fewer game. How is that the “definition of JAG”?
Huh? Ware was 13th in the league in yards from scrimmage in 2016. He had more yards from scrimmage than Antonio Brown even though he played 1 fewer game. How is that the “definition of JAG”?
Since when is 4.3 ypc a jag? That's a good average. And saying he didn't break 1000 yards is a bit misleading. He got 921 rushing yards in 14 games. 33 catches for 447 yards isn't bad either. Being able to run well and catch is valuable.proof you can make stats say anything......he was 16th RB in 2016 via FBG scoring....his ypc was 4.3....generally RBs that don't share touches get a high TOTAL yards count, where as WRs dont get carries thus their total yards volume is generally low.....your point is pretty meaningless...as great as he was he didn't break 1k yards rushing that season......JAG...volume player in 2016...…. a 3rd round pick is a decent amount of capital to invest in a position if you feel you have someone special at the spot, which KC didn't feel Ware was.....we will never know how 2017 would of played out due to injury but Im guessing Hunt would of taken over at some point....
The only people making up stats here is you. In no world is the 13th highest yard from scrimmage leader in the league the "definition of JAG". No NFL coach is going to say that his starting running back is a JAG because he was the RB16 in fantasy football scoring. Thats a ridiculous statement. In reality football--before Ware got injured--he was one of the top tier running backs in the league. In 2016 when he was the starting running back--he accounted for nearly 30% of his total teams yards--put him 8th in the league.proof you can make stats say anything......he was 16th RB in 2016 via FBG scoring....his ypc was 4.3....generally RBs that don't share touches get a high TOTAL yards count, where as WRs dont get carries thus their total yards volume is generally low in comparison to high touch RBs.....your point is pretty meaningless...as great as he was he didn't break 1k yards rushing that season......JAG...volume player in 2016...…. a 3rd round pick is a decent amount of capital to invest in a position if you feel you have someone special at the spot, which KC didn't feel Ware was.....we will never know how 2017 would of played out due to injury but Im guessing Hunt would of taken over at some point....
Are you saying the "rookie wall" was the reason for his subpar 7 game stretch in the middle of the season? I've never heard the rookie wall to explain a middle season stretch. Usually it is given as a possible reason for a late season fade.He's in an Andy Reid O. He'll be a great yfs guy in ppr. He probably won't hit the rookie wall this year either. I see top 10 rather easily.
what stat did I make up? Either way....Ill gladly take Hunt at the bottom of round1 in any format and Ware is a cheap enough cuff that I don't have to worry about spending an super early pick on him.....The only people making up stats here is you.
Yep. His last three weeks when he seemed to be rejuvinated were against some pretty bad teams.Are you saying the "rookie wall" was the reason for his subpar 7 game stretch in the middle of the season? I've never heard the rookie wall to explain a middle season stretch. Usually it is given as a possible reason for a late season fade.
The statement that "Ware is the definition of a JAG" is nothing but an opinion that is brutally false and unsupported by stats. You said it as if it were a fact -when it was actually extraordinarily far from the truth. Look at every stud RB this season and look at their backups. Ware is the backup that was most recently a stud in the NFL--he was legit elite right before he got hurt in the preseason last year. No other starting "bell cow" running back has that breathing down their neck. Mixon and Bernard, and dalvin and latavious are maybe the next closest ones. You painted a picture that completely ignored that fact.what stat did I make up? Either way....Ill gladly take Hunt at the bottom of round1 in any format and Ware is a cheap enough cuff that I don't have to worry about spending an super early pick on him.....
Are the bears playing their starters? From the looks of the boxscore on offense none of the starters are playingWell there he goes...
Disagree everyone in second half of round one looking for an edge to separateHunt scored a TD so it must be time to post about him. Amazing how that works on this site.
Calling him a JAG is going too far one way. Calling him elite is going too far the other way.The statement that "Ware is the definition of a JAG" is nothing but an opinion that is brutally false and unsupported by stats. You said it as if it were a fact -when it was actually extraordinarily far from the truth. Look at every stud RB this season and look at their backups. Ware is the backup that was most recently a stud in the NFL--he was legit elite right before he got hurt in the preseason last year. No other starting "bell cow" running back has that breathing down their neck. Mixon and Bernard, and dalvin and latavious are maybe the next closest ones. You painted a picture that completely ignored that fact.
As a fantasy player--ware was a low end rb1 high end rb2 the last time he started. As an NFL running back--he was elite in 2016. Like i said--he had the 13 highest yards from scrimmage playing 14 games. Nine of the players above him played more games than him. He accounted for nearly 30% of his teams total yards--which was eighth best in the league. Ware was absolutely an elite NFL player in 2016 as a starter. That is not even close a stretch.Calling him a JAG is going too far one way. Calling him elite is going too far the other way.
As a fantasy player--ware was a low end rb1 high end rb2 the last time he started. As an NFL running back--he was elite in 2016. Like i said--he had the 13 highest yards from scrimmage playing 14 games. Nine of the players above him played more games than him. He accounted for nearly 30% of his teams total yards--which was eighth best in the league. Ware was absolutely an elite NFL player in 2016 as a starter. That is not even close a stretch.
I’ll just disagree - maybe we just define elite differently but I’d imagine you’d be on an island calling Ware an elite RB.As a fantasy player--ware was a low end rb1 high end rb2 the last time he started. As an NFL running back--he was elite in 2016. Like i said--he had the 13 highest yards from scrimmage playing 14 games. Nine of the players above him played more games than him. He accounted for nearly 30% of his teams total yards--which was eighth best in the league. Ware was absolutely an elite NFL player in 2016 as a starter. That is not even close a stretch.
I'm not toting the "Ware banner". This is the Kareem Hunt thread. If we are evaluating a guy that is being drafted as a stud fantasy rb--we have to evaluate the dude that is backing him up. The dude backing him up had an elite season and was in line to be the starter over Hunt before he went down with an injury in the pre-season. There are people in here that are glazing over the fact that he was one of the best rb's in football the year that he was a starter and calling him things like the definition of "JAG". That is not objective nor is it accurate. I'm just pointing that out. I should be able to do that without being called a person that "totes the Ware banner". He's not the zero that many of the people here are making him out to be. That's all.Ware looks a lot more like a one year wonder than the stud you’re trying to make him into. Entering his 6th year in the league he has played in 27 games - 11 more than Hunt did in his rookie year, and had his one good year in 2016 which was substantially less productive than Hunt’s rookie season was. If you watch Hunt run as opposed to Ware, there’s no doubt which one the stud is. KC apparently thinks so too - they converted half his $1.45M salary this year into incentives, reducing his base salary to $725k.
Good luck toting that Ware banner this year. But at least there will be plenty of seats to choose from on the train.
ETA - And I traded to acquire Ware so that I had a Hunt’s handcuff since I already owned Hunt. But I have no doubt that Hunt is my RB1, but I am also comfortable knowing that I’ll get solid production if Hunt goes down. Not Hunt production, but definitely solid.
.
Ware is definitely a jag. Ufa, cut by the team that picked him up originally. Reid makes RBs look good and that’s about what I’d say. The idea that he’s going to cut into Hunts share this year is strange. I’m really surprised how far he’s falling.The statement that "Ware is the definition of a JAG" is nothing but an opinion that is brutally false and unsupported by stats. You said it as if it were a fact -when it was actually extraordinarily far from the truth. Look at every stud RB this season and look at their backups. Ware is the backup that was most recently a stud in the NFL--he was legit elite right before he got hurt in the preseason last year. No other starting "bell cow" running back has that breathing down their neck. Mixon and Bernard, and dalvin and latavious are maybe the next closest ones. You painted a picture that completely ignored that fact.
I'm not toting the "Ware banner". This is the Kareem Hunt thread. If we are evaluating a guy that is being drafted as a stud fantasy rb--we have to evaluate the dude that is backing him up. The dude backing him up had an elite season and was in line to be the starter over Hunt before he went down with an injury in the pre-season. There are people in here that are glazing over the fact that he was one of the best rb's in football the year that he was a starter and calling him things like the definition of "JAG". That is not objective nor is it accurate. I'm just pointing that out. I should be able to do that without being called a person that "totes the Ware banner". He's not the zero that many of the people here are making him out to be. That's all.
I'm not toting the "Ware banner". This is the Kareem Hunt thread. If we are evaluating a guy that is being drafted as a stud fantasy rb--we have to evaluate the dude that is backing him up. The dude backing him up had an elite season and was in line to be the starter over Hunt before he went down with an injury in the pre-season. There are people in here that are glazing over the fact that he was one of the best rb's in football the year that he was a starter and calling him things like the definition of "JAG". That is not objective nor is it accurate. I'm just pointing that out. I should be able to do that without being called a person that "totes the Ware banner". He's not the zero that many of the people here are making him out to be. That's all.
I think his slide down to the bottom of round1 has more to do with the QB switch to Mahomes than Ware.....The only people making up stats here is you. In no world is the 13th highest yard from scrimmage leader in the league the "definition of JAG". No NFL coach is going to say that his starting running back is a JAG because he was the RB16 in fantasy football scoring. Thats a ridiculous statement. In reality football--before Ware got injured--he was one of the top tier running backs in the league. In 2016 when he was the starting running back--he accounted for nearly 30% of his total teams yards--put him 8th in the league.
http://www.footballperspective.com/2016-yards-from-scrimmage-leaders-as-a-percentage-of-team-yfs/
That is not JAG--by any standard--those metrics show that when he was a healthy starting running back--he was one of the best ones in the league. Period.
When you evaluate the potential of a stud rb in fantasy--you have to look at the quality of the backup behind him. Why do you think that David Johnson, Zeke, Gurley, Bell and Saquon are going early? Their backups are dozens of tiers below them when it comes to talent and upside. Look at guys like Mixon and Cook--people are lukewarm on them because they have pretty solid rb's behind them like Latavious and Bernard. I think Hunt will be a very solid RB--but the notion that a healthy Ware is "just a guy" and is nothing for Hunt owners to think about is absurd. People are vastly underestimating how good Ware was before the injury. If he looks good in his first action back--potential Hunt draftees should absolutely take notice. I'm not saying not to draft him--but ignoring Ware as if he's zero to worry about is ridiculous. If he's really healthy and looks good--he could easily be the best or one of the best handcuffs in fantasy football.
Which is weird because this is what held him higher in my personal ranking.I think his slide down to the bottom of round1 has more to do with the QB switch to Mahomes than Ware.....
Will things regress to this outcome or continue away from Hunt getting any looks in the passing game?I keep thinking of Brian Westbrook back when Reid was with the eagles. I think Hunt could be in line for more catches this year. I think he's underrated this year. If Mahommes can deliver on the promise of the bigger arm then Hunt will have more room to work. Today's pre-season game gives me optomism that he's at least competent. He'll have some turnovers, but the Chiefs offense will move the chains. Hunt's going to play a central role. Big year incoming.
This sounds like Reid prefers Ware and Williams blocking over Hunt if that is the case.Hunt is probably going to score a lot of TD's this year but it is hard to ignore the fact the Chiefs seem to really want to avoid throwing him the ball. Spencer Ware is the clear 3rd down/hurryup back and at the end of the first half in hurry up mode they actually put Damien Williams in ahead of Hunt when Ware needed a breather. As bad as the Chiefs D is, there are going to be weeks where they are playing catch up in the 2nd half and it doesn't look like Hunt will be part of that.
Kareem Hunt rushed 19 times for 121 yards and one touchdown in the Chiefs' 27-23, Week 4 win over the Broncos on Monday night.
Hunt added three catches for 54 yards on four targets. In the first half, he was the focal point of the offense, as the Broncos' pass-rush and backend coverage made things difficult on Patrick Mahomes. It's Hunt's first 100-yard rushing game of the season after six as a rookie. Hunt was stuffed a couple times inside the five-yard line early before later cashing one in from four yards out late in the fourth quarter to cap the comeback and give the Chiefs a 26-23 lead. Hunt will be a borderline RB1 next week at home against the stout Jaguars.
Oct 1 - 11:33 PM
I'm heavily invested in Hunt and it was a relief to see him become one of the focal points of the offense and produce. Still would like to see him get a little more action in the passing gameI don’t know about anyone else but I was encouraged by today’s game. Looks explosive and was involved in passing game nicely even after dropping the check down that had about forty yards of real estate in front of him. Could have easily been a 100 receiving and td game. And he was given chances to have two more rushing tds.
In addition, Hunt doesn’t seem to be tackled for a loss much, which keeps the offense in good down&distance, and on the field.I don’t know about anyone else but I was encouraged by today’s game. Looks explosive and was involved in passing game nicely even after dropping the check down that had about forty yards of real estate in front of him. Could have easily been a 100 receiving and td game. And he was given chances to have two more rushing tds.
Yep. I moved him a couple weeks ago.I’m heavily invested in Hunt as well and am considering moving him. This feels like that dead cat bounce preceding another Andy Reid scenario where he gets 60 total yards for 2-3 games straight. God I hope I’m wrong.
I acquired hunt after week 2. David Johnson and Parker for hunt and Amari.Not to make this a wdis but what kind of return have you gotten or are you looking for? Hunt owner who loved last night but weeks 1-3 have me wondering if it’s time to cash in.
*this is dynasty