Xue
Footballguy
Thats a huge reason I am not concerned about this shotgun vs fullback production argument. People dont understand how bad the passing game at LSU got the last few years.
His bigger concern is running in a Zone heavy scheme.
Thats a huge reason I am not concerned about this shotgun vs fullback production argument. People dont understand how bad the passing game at LSU got the last few years.
Not sure about not having any holes, Elliott's lateral agility is hardly exceptional and there's a general "stiffness" about his running style that's tough to explain.... I digress.Elliott is the more well rounded runner. He's got better vision, balance, and he's more patient. He doesn't really have any holes, unlike Fournette. That said, when Fournette has the ball and room to run--he's a different animal. And that's really saying something, because Zeke is plenty explosive himself. Even Gurley doesn't measure up here.
I think the knocks are valid on Fournette, if slightly overblown. I just think his strenghts will make him a force despite them. And I don't think he's one dimensional. He's a hands catcher and has shown promise in pass protection. I think he's got a solid shot at becoming a 3-down back.
I keep seeing Carolina and Jacksonville, and I don't think either of those make sense at all. Carolina needs defensive help more than anything, as their once great defense was a liability for a lot of last season. They signed a couple vets, but that shouldn't prevent them from continuing to build the position back up. I expect them to take a RB, but more likely in round 3 or 4. Stewart is still solid when healthy.Carolina makes too much sense. Taking pressure off Cam has got to be priority #1.
You make some good points. Carolina could go D and get their rb in round 2.I keep seeing Carolina and Jacksonville, and I don't think either of those make sense at all. Carolina needs defensive help more than anything, as their once great defense was a liability for a lot of last season. They signed a couple vets, but that shouldn't prevent them from continuing to build the position back up. I expect them to take a RB, but more likely in round 3 or 4. Stewart is still solid when healthy.
I don't see RB as a problem for the Jags, blocking is. Not many RBs could have success with that blocking, they also could use another weapon for Bortles. I think they should try to kill 2 birds with one stone and take OJ Howard. They could take a RB later, but honestly, I think Yeldon and Ivory is probably good enough.
I truly believe(and I know I'm in the minority) that Fournette is a tough fit in most offenses. Kansas City would probably be an amazing fit, but they would obviously have to trade up, ditto for Green Bay. I personally think any team who takes a QB or RB in the top-10 is making a mistake. This is a loaded defensive draft, with one of the greatest TE prospects ever in it, and some very underrated o-line prospects and WR's as well.
Its a myth that Dallas has the best o-line in the NFL. They have a lot of great, and highly drafted players, but they are more top tier than #1. Tennessee has a better o-line, and Green Bay did, though that may not be the case after losing Lang and Tretter. Oakland is right there as well.I don't know. If I have 1.01, I'm taking Fournette all day (rookie drafts) and not losing sleep over it. I'm not sold on Elliot being on a higher tier. Is he a great rb? Yep. Would I lover to have Elliot on my team? Hell yeah. But I also think it has some to do with the Dallas effect. I think most rbs would be a helluva lot better running behind the #1 OL in the NFL. My main concern with Fournette is health. He's a battering ram with wheels. I just hope he can hold up to the beating over the long haul.
There's not one starting caliber back between the two rosters. Carolina would likely need to make some scheme changes, but he's plug-n-play in Jax. He instantly takes both offenses up a notch. He makes sense both teams and, at this point, I'll be surprised if he doesn't end up with one of the two.I keep seeing Carolina and Jacksonville, and I don't think either of those make sense at all. Carolina needs defensive help more than anything, as their once great defense was a liability for a lot of last season. They signed a couple vets, but that shouldn't prevent them from continuing to build the position back up. I expect them to take a RB, but more likely in round 3 or 4. Stewart is still solid when healthy.
I don't see RB as a problem for the Jags, blocking is. Not many RBs could have success with that blocking, they also could use another weapon for Bortles. I think they should try to kill 2 birds with one stone and take OJ Howard. They could take a RB later, but honestly, I think Yeldon and Ivory is probably good enough.
I truly believe(and I know I'm in the minority) that Fournette is a tough fit in most offenses. Kansas City would probably be an amazing fit, but they would obviously have to trade up, ditto for Green Bay. I personally think any team who takes a QB or RB in the top-10 is making a mistake. This is a loaded defensive draft, with one of the greatest TE prospects ever in it, and some very underrated o-line prospects and WR's as well.
Its a myth that Dallas has the best o-line in the NFL.
Yeah not a myth. Martin and Frederick are probably the 2 best run blocking interior lineman in the NFL. From a pass blocking standpoint GB was as good as Dallas' line last year but GB's line doesn't blow lineman off the ball anywhere near how Dallas does in the running game. You could be correct about Ten but the fact is Dallas' oline is spectacular.Its a myth that Dallas has the best o-line in the NFL. They have a lot of great, and highly drafted players, but they are more top tier than #1. Tennessee has a better o-line, and Green Bay did, though that may not be the case after losing Lang and Tretter. Oakland is right there as well.
I think this is shaping up to be a great year to trade the #1 rookie pick, I'm not sure I think there is a big difference between pick #1 and pick #7, the talent is close enough for me, that it'll all be landing spot based.
Yeah Dallas' OL is insanely good, especially run blocking wise. I think OAK's isn't far behind. TEN also good.Yeah not a myth. Martin and Frederick are probably the 2 best run blocking interior lineman in the NFL. From a pass blocking standpoint GB was as good as Dallas' line last year but GB's line doesn't blow lineman off the ball anywhere near how Dallas does in the running game. You could be correct about Ten but the fact is Dallas' oline is spectacular.
I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that. There's a very good chance Carolina takes him at #8 and if not, someone will jump up to do it.I would hope Fournette will at least be better than Peterson in pass protection and he would only need to be an average receiving RB to be as good as Peterson in that area.
As a runner does not have the jump cut or speed of Adrian Peterson and with his vision he is going to need to be more powerful than Peterson and break more tackles to be as effective Peterson was.
I doubt Fournette is a top 10 pick.
Could be. We will see soon enough.I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that. There's a very good chance Carolina takes him at #8 and if not, someone will jump up to do it.
At #2 overall, Fournette would be the 4th highest paid RB in the league. That seems like a lot for a team that needs as much help as they do at other positions. Plus, at 2 it's not like they can say that there isn't other equatable talent available. I can't see Lynch doing this. If it does happen, think it's the owner. Once owners get involved and force the "flashy" picks, a team is pretty much doomed.Greg Gabriel says he talks directly to NFL GMs, and other sources in the NFL from his scounting days.
He tweeted today that as long as CLE doesn't throw a curve ball at 1 and take Garrett, SF will take Fournette if they can't trade down.
On the one hand, it seems dumb. On the other, Fournette with Shanahan would be interesting.
Seems weird to hire an offensive mind whose entire coaching tree is known for pulling 1,000 yard rushers from late round prospects, and then spend the #2 overall pick on a RB (regardless of how you feel about that RB).
At #2 overall, Fournette would be the 4th highest paid RB in the league. That seems like a lot for a team that needs as much help as they do at other positions. Plus, at 2 it's not like they can say that there isn't other equatable talent available. I can't see Lynch doing this. If it does happen, think it's the owner. Once owners get involved and force the "flashy" picks, a team is pretty much doomed.
You have to think that if you're trying to generate interest in a trade, you'd do so with someone other than Fournette. Trading up for a top 2 pick is just such a massive, massive investment for a RB. Assuming they were trying to bluff, I'd guess they'd have better luck with Trubisky.Who else would be interested in Fournette that would move up to pick 2 overall with SF to select him?
The Vikings got an extra 4th 5th and 7th round picks from Cleveland in 2012 to move from pick 4 to pick 3. So if Jacksonville really wanted him, it would cost something slight more than that to move up two spots.
Seems like smoke to me. Maybe a bit naive? Can't really blame SF front office for trying whatever they can to generate interest in the pick. 2012 wasn't that long ago and deals like this happen at times.
Greg Gabriel is a good writer, but I haven't read anything by him that I recall lately.
I think they have hinted at the QBs as well. Likely a shotgun approach of hyping as many players at the pick as possible.You have to think that if you're trying to generate interest in a trade, you'd do so with someone other than Fournette. Trading up for a top 2 pick is just such a massive, massive investment for a RB. Assuming they were trying to bluff, I'd guess they'd have better luck with Trubisky.
I don't buy Fournette at 2, but can someone help me understand the 9ers angle here? What do they get out of feigning interest in Fournette?
It looks like a few sources are suggesting it. http://www.ninersnation.com/2017/4/25/15423364/nfl-draft-rumors-49ers-interested-in-leonard-fournette-second-pickDon't think this is a "team smoke screen" thing like people are insinuating the QB interest is. This is just from one ex-scout on Twitter as far as I've seen, who claims to be in contact with GMs.
Lets pump the brakes on Elliot. 10 other backs in the league could have done just as well on the cowboys as he did. Like to see him playing on the Vikings with their line then I'll give him the HoF treatment.Elliott is the more well rounded runner. He's got better vision, balance, and he's more patient. He doesn't really have any holes, unlike Fournette. That said, when Fournette has the ball and room to run--he's a different animal. And that's really saying something, because Zeke is plenty explosive himself. Even Gurley doesn't measure up here.
I think the knocks are valid on Fournette, if slightly overblown. I just think his strenghts will make him a force despite them. And I don't think he's one dimensional. He's a hands catcher and has shown promise in pass protection. I think he's got a solid shot at becoming a 3-down back.
There's plenty of video of Elliott doing exceptional things independent of his offensive line. He was an elite prospect going into the draft. PFF isn't perfect, but they graded him top 2 as a runner. Their grade does a pretty good job of separating the performance of the runner from the performance of his offensive line. He's easily one of the most talented runners in the league and there are not 10 backs in the league capable of doing what he did.Lets pump the brakes on Elliot. 10 other backs in the league could have done just as well on the cowboys as he did. Like to see him playing on the Vikings with their line then I'll give him the HoF treatment.
Yes! The best comps I've seen (with some hyperbole) is Jamal Lewis and Earl Campbell. Fournette has tree trunks for legs and is going to stack 1000 yard seasons. If he could be Jamal Lewis 2.0 with more catches, that'd be fine with me. 8 1000+ yard season, sign me up.I get all the ADP comparisons (because what draft isn't complete w/o a "best since ADP" guy)... but Fournette reminds me more of Corey Dillon or Jamal Lewis.
I also think the widespread presumption that he is a "one dimensional" back is premature... Frank Gore wasn't utilized much at all in the passing game in college and turned out to be one of the most versatile RBs in the game. From what I've seen Fournette has enough nimbleness and awareness to play a role in the pass game. If Eddie Lacy could squeeze out a 3 down back role, certainly Fournette has an opportunity.
Gurley, David Johnson, Bell, Howard, Ajayi, Miller, Hyde, Shady, D.Murray, Lacy. Ten guys who could have stepped in for Elliot last year and you wouldn't lose a thing. It's all about the line. He really wasn't an elite runner, more of an elite all-around prospect. There's better runners than him in most drafts, as Fournette is this year. Put him on the cowboys and he would destroy teams.There's plenty of video of Elliott doing exceptional things independent of his offensive line. He was an elite prospect going into the draft. PFF isn't perfect, but they graded him top 2 as a runner. Their grade does a pretty good job of separating the performance of the runner from the performance of his offensive line. He's easily one of the most talented runners in the league and there are not 10 backs in the league capable of doing what he did.
With his upright running style he reminds me more of a faster Eddie George.The more I look at Fournette the more I see Peyton Hillis but a better athlete. I just find it a funny comparison from what I remember about Hillis and I laughed at myself for thinking that. Anyways I've grown on him from 2 months ago.
Gurley, David Johnson, Bell, Howard, Ajayi, Miller, Hyde, Shady, D.Murray, Lacy. Ten guys who could have stepped in for Elliot last year and you wouldn't lose a thing. It's all about the line. He really wasn't an elite runner, more of an elite all-around prospect. There's better runners than him in most drafts, as Fournette is this year. Put him on the cowboys and he would destroy teams.
Both of these posts made me giggle a little bit.The more I look at Fournette the more I see Peyton Hillis but a better athlete. I just find it a funny comparison from what I remember about Hillis and I laughed at myself for thinking that. Anyways I've grown on him from 2 months ago.
That I can see...With his upright running style he reminds me more of a faster Eddie George.
Not doubting, just asking a question - isn't Fournette deficient at pass-protection? Wouldn't that sort of preclude him from being part of the passing game in the pros?I get all the ADP comparisons (because what draft isn't complete w/o a "best since ADP" guy)... but Fournette reminds me more of Corey Dillon or Jamal Lewis.
I also think the widespread presumption that he is a "one dimensional" back is premature... Frank Gore wasn't utilized much at all in the passing game in college and turned out to be one of the most versatile RBs in the game. From what I've seen Fournette has enough nimbleness and awareness to play a role in the pass game. If Eddie Lacy could squeeze out a 3 down back role, certainly Fournette has an opportunity.
Fournette's "lack of Pass Pro" is over blown. A) He's big and strong enough to do it. B) He displays the mental aggression to be a good enough blocker. All he needs is his technique to cleaned up. He will learn assignments during practice/film work.Not doubting, just asking a question - isn't Fournette deficient at pass-protection? Wouldn't that sort of preclude him from being part of the passing game in the pros?
What Borden said... plus catches like this make me think he can be more than just a dump-off/screen guy in the pass game.Not doubting, just asking a question - isn't Fournette deficient at pass-protection? Wouldn't that sort of preclude him from being part of the passing game in the pros?
If that's true then Dalvin Cook is in huge trouble. His pass protection is the worst but most people aren't talking about him as being precluded from the passing game.Spike said:Not doubting, just asking a question - isn't Fournette deficient at pass-protection? Wouldn't that sort of preclude him from being part of the passing game in the pros?
Physical pass blocker who recorded a pass-blocking efficiency of 97 percent or higher in all three years, albeit on a small sample size.
I'm very confident in my opinion of Zeke as a runner and am not interested in changing yours. I simply and strongly disagree, to say the least.voiceofunreason said:Gurley, David Johnson, Bell, Howard, Ajayi, Miller, Hyde, Shady, D.Murray, Lacy. Ten guys who could have stepped in for Elliot last year and you wouldn't lose a thing. It's all about the line. He really wasn't an elite runner, more of an elite all-around prospect. There's better runners than him in most drafts, as Fournette is this year. Put him on the cowboys and he would destroy teams.
Great spots for McCaffrey and Davis as well. Shaping up to be an epic fantasy draft.I agree 1.1 value just went up. Great spot for Fournette.
5 offensive skill spots in the top 9.Great spots for McCaffrey and Davis as well. Shaping up to be an epic fantasy draft.
Which of Trubisky, Fournette, McCaffery, Davis, Williams or Ross do you not consider offensively skilled?5 offensive skill spots in the top 9.
Sorry; forgot the QB.Which of Trubisky, Fournette, McCaffery, Davis, Williams or Ross do you not consider offensively skilled?