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RB Le'Veon Bell, FA (4 Viewers)

Sorry for the diversion from the money talk...  I live in Pittsburgh and listen to sports talk radio occasionally.  The other night I was listening to Mark Madden talk about Lev Bell.  Mark Madden has been discussed in this thread and on this board before and he can be considered a 'shock jock' due to his style.  However, his information is generally valid.  He was the one who broke the initial Bell suspension, but I digress.  Anyway, the other day, he said something like, "Lev Bell has given the Steelers a number of reasons to be uncertain about him(would he hold out the preseason again, would he hold out the regular season as he threatened, etc.)., we will see if he gives them any more reasons over the next couple of weeks."

Now, it's completely possible that he meant nothing by this comment, but knowing Mark Madden and his style, I wonder if there isn't something already on the radar for Bell.

Smoke or fire, if I were the Steelers, I would be reluctant to sign a long term, big money contract with a player at the RB position, with a history of injury and suspension.

 
brewer said:
Sorry for the diversion from the money talk...  I live in Pittsburgh and listen to sports talk radio occasionally.  The other night I was listening to Mark Madden talk about Lev Bell.  Mark Madden has been discussed in this thread and on this board before and he can be considered a 'shock jock' due to his style.  However, his information is generally valid.  He was the one who broke the initial Bell suspension, but I digress.  Anyway, the other day, he said something like, "Lev Bell has given the Steelers a number of reasons to be uncertain about him(would he hold out the preseason again, would he hold out the regular season as he threatened, etc.)., we will see if he gives them any more reasons over the next couple of weeks."

Now, it's completely possible that he meant nothing by this comment, but knowing Mark Madden and his style, I wonder if there isn't something already on the radar for Bell.

Smoke or fire, if I were the Steelers, I would be reluctant to sign a long term, big money contract with a player at the RB position, with a history of injury and suspension.
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Madden is normally a pretty poor source of inside info on the Steelers but he did break the Bell suspension story. I chalked it up to a blind squirrel finding a nut but you never know.

I think the fact that Bell stayed clean and healthy in 2017 will make it a lot more likely the Steelers give him the  guaranteed cash he's looking for. 

 
eNdblu said:
No idea that validity of the Twitter account but...

@CLEsportsTalk: BREAKING: CST is receiving information from sources that star FA running back Le'Veon Bell could be facing major legal issues within the next few days to weeks. More to come as the story develops https://t.co/pIlLcnRudp

https://twitter.com/CLEsportsTalk/status/959135693934120960
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Oh man - hope Cleveland Sports Talk as an information source is equivalent to the Cleveland Browns as a football team.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Oh man - hope Cleveland Sports Talk as an information source is equivalent to the Cleveland Browns as a football team.
Click to expand...
Perhaps but brewer suspected something might be up after hearing a cryptic comment from loudmouthed sports talk host Mark Madden last week.   

If there is any truth this I hope it comes out very soon before the Steelers make any long-term commitments.  Still you have to think if Madden and/or this source know something is up the Steelers organization would know about it too.

 
The guy says $60 Mil is not enough to play for the Jets, so obviously he's not smart. That being said, I'm not believing this story just yet. Wouldn't shock me if true, though, with Bell being a Class A Moron.

 
Jello_Biafra said:
The guy says $60 Mil is not enough to play for the Jets, so obviously he's not smart. That being said, I'm not believing this story just yet. Wouldn't shock me if true, though, with Bell being a Class A Moron.
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I'm not sure I'D Play for the lowly Jets for $60MM, and I'm not a franchise back. WHy on earth would ANYONE want to subject themselves to that misery? :lol:  

 
[icon] said:
I'm not sure I'D Play for the lowly Jets for $60MM, and I'm not a franchise back. WHy on earth would ANYONE want to subject themselves to that misery? :lol:  
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I don't know. Maybe because NY is the largest market? Lots and lots more money in endorsements than in Pittsburgh I would imagine. Even taking endorsement money aside, it's idiotic for a pro athlete, who is a FA , to say something like that. That in no way can increase his value. 

 
ESPN's Jeremy Fowler reports the Steelers are fully expected to use the franchise tag on Le'Veon Bell ahead of the March 6 deadline.

Both sides seem ready to finally hammer out a long-term deal, but the franchise tag will buy time to do it. Fowler reports the Steelers have already budgeted the $14.5 million tag into their salary cap plan for free agency. The deadline for franchise tagged players to sign long-term deals is July 16.

Source: Dianna Marie Russini on Twitter 

Feb 20 - 3:29 PM
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To put this salary number in perspective, Doug Martin's salary cap hit of 6.75M would have been the 4th highest for running back in the upcoming season. I know Gurley, Zeke et al are on rookie contracts, but we are talking about paying a RB on average more than double that of the 4th highest paid player at his position.

 
brewer said:
To put this salary number in perspective, Doug Martin's salary cap hit of 6.75M would have been the 4th highest for running back in the upcoming season. I know Gurley, Zeke et al are on rookie contracts, but we are talking about paying a RB on average more than double that of the 4th highest paid player at his position.
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That isn't even a fair comparison because of what you said yourself. ALL, literally ALL the best backs are still on rookie deals except for Bell, McCoy and  Freeman. 

 
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The Steelers will keep tagging him until he falls off a cliff.  What's Le'Veon going to do?  Sit out and leave $15M on the table?  That'll show them. 

The team that ends up giving him a monster deal with $50M+ guaranteed is making a mistake.

 
It shouldn’t be that hard- sign a team friendly deal, they guarantee the contract. I don’t understand why this doesn’t happen more often with players that aren’t going anywhere. I wouldn’t want a 4 year $60million deal where its back loaded and you never see the last 2 years. Perhaps in bells case this doesn’t apply, but for guys like Rodgers why not keep some cap space cleared for the team, and for the team why not just pay the guy, you aren’t cutting him. 

You get to the end of these contracts and the cap hit is immense, so you restructure, and end up with a Calvin Johnson situation where a guy retires and you take a cap hit for 2 more years. 

 
Snorkelson said:
It shouldn’t be that hard- sign a team friendly deal, they guarantee the contract. I don’t understand why this doesn’t happen more often with players that aren’t going anywhere. I wouldn’t want a 4 year $60million deal where its back loaded and you never see the last 2 years. Perhaps in bells case this doesn’t apply, but for guys like Rodgers why not keep some cap space cleared for the team, and for the team why not just pay the guy, you aren’t cutting him. 

You get to the end of these contracts and the cap hit is immense, so you restructure, and end up with a Calvin Johnson situation where a guy retires and you take a cap hit for 2 more years. 
Click to expand...
The contract Pittsburgh offered last year ( and Bell's agent agree too) gave Bell 30M over the first two years and 42M over the first three years.   I wouldn't call that back loaded at all.

 
moondog said:
The contract Pittsburgh offered last year ( and Bell's agent agree too) gave Bell 30M over the first two years and 42M over the first three years.   I wouldn't call that back loaded at all.
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I wasn’t talking bell specifically, but contracts in general. Not saying the Steelers were offering some bs offer or anything. 

 
Jeremy Fowler‏@JFowlerESPN

More

Filed to @ESPN: Steelers inform Le'Veon Bell he's being tagged absent last-minute (and unlikely) deal, team has come up from last year's offer but $14.5 M per year is Bell's new floor.

1:11 PM - 5 Mar 2018

 
I sorta brushed off the LeVeon Bell chatter but he seems serious.  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22657079/leveon-bell-pittsburgh-steelers-gets-franchise-tag-again

..."We're not coming to a number we both agree on -- they are too low, or I guess they feel I'm too high," Bell said. "I'm playing for strictly my value to the team. That's what I'm asking. I don't think I should settle for anything less than what I'm valued at."

...Bell, 26, confirmed last year he turned down a contract worth $42 million over the first three years with an average of $13.3 million over the life of the deal. 

...Bell plans to stick to his number -- which he isn't revealing -- and is accounting for everything. Asked about his criteria for assessing that worth, Bell explained:

He's putting up more yards per game than any NFL player (his career average of 128.9 yards from scrimmage per game is the best since the 1970 NFL-AFL merger).

He plays every down and basically fills the role of three backs.

His presence keeps the defense off guard because he can line up anywhere on any play, "causing constant mismatches every single down," he said.

He's an elite pass-blocker and No. 2 receiver.

... Last year, I was pounding the table on guaranteed money. That's not the case. If I'm not getting guaranteed money, I want a lot more up front.

... quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and receiver Antonio Brown, whose long-term contracts combine to pay about $37 million per year. Bell wants to join them.

"Both of those guys got what they deserved," Bell said. "I feel I'm next in line."

... Atlanta's Devonta Freeman is the game's highest paid at $8.25 million per year. Freeman has averaged 96.9 yards from scrimmage per game over the past three seasons.

..."They are using it as me being compared to another running back or my status or what Devonta Freeman has. I can't control what he's done on the field," Bell said. "I only can control what I think I'm worth and what I've done on the field. That's where the problem lies. 'Freeman's making this, we can't give you this.' ... To me, that's not fair. I didn't sign Devonta's deal. That's the position I'm in. I want to make my own decision."

That decision will get bigger if he finds himself without a deal in late July. All options are on the table, Bell said, including reporting Week 10, the deadline for tagged players to receive any sort of payment for 2018 if the tag is not signed.

 
They should move him this offseason. Trade him for a late 1/early 2. Save the cap hit, save the headache. This is the draft to get an RB. Sign McKinnon and pair him with a Penny or Guice or Chubb with what you can get for Bell.

Edit to add: When Bell goes, he’s going to go fast. Think Shaun Alexander. His style is great, he’s the only one that can get away with it. That being said when he loses even a hair off his burst he’s done. 

 
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The steeler have the leverage here. Franchise Bell one more year, then let him walk. He’s not retiring at 25. From a Bell perspective, you get paid a lot of money for one year and then sign with the Pats in 2019 to stick it up the Steelers...

win-win scenario 

 
Bojang0301 said:
They should move him this offseason. Trade him for a late 1/early 2. Save the cap hit, save the headache. This is the draft to get an RB. Sign McKinnon and pair him with a Penny or Guice or Chubb with what you can get for Bell.

Edit to add: When Bell goes, he’s going to go fast. Think Shaun Alexander. His style is great, he’s the only one that can get away with it. That being said when he loses even a hair off his burst he’s done. 
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He will be a FA, they can't trade him.

 
Gandalf said:
The steeler have the leverage here. Franchise Bell one more year, then let him walk. He’s not retiring at 25. From a Bell perspective, you get paid a lot of money for one year and then sign with the Pats in 2019 to stick it up the Steelers...

win-win scenario 
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You think the Pats are going to give a running back with two knee surgeries and two drug suspensions $15+ million annually with most of it guaranteed?  I'm going to go out on a limb and say no.  Cleveland might.

 
I know the RB position has been devalued but it is kind of criminal that Landry's first year tag is $16MM and Bell on his second tag is $14MM.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
You think the Pats are going to give a running back with two knee surgeries and two drug suspensions $15+ million annually with most of it guaranteed?  I'm going to go out on a limb and say no.  Cleveland might.
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I know it was a cheap shot but Cleveland has $109 million over the cap. 

The next nearest team has $79 million and is going after Cousins and has a good shot to land him so the Browns basically lap the entire league in unused available cap space.

Instead of blowing the top pick on Saquon hoping he can put up numbers like LeVeon why not give Bell his payday and get that production for cap that won't get used.

  • They would create a hole that can never be completely filled on Pittsburgh's roster
  • They would get instant production from a very-motivated RB
  • They would use the pick that would have been blown on Saquon on another blue-chip prospect
  • They wouldn't even flinch at the cap space.  "Ain't nothing but sand on a beach" as Ross Perot would say
 
Bracie Smathers said:
I know it was a cheap shot but Cleveland has $109 million over the cap. 

The next nearest team has $79 million and is going after Cousins and has a good shot to land him so the Browns basically lap the entire league in unused available cap space.

Instead of blowing the top pick on Saquon hoping he can put up numbers like LeVeon why not give Bell his payday and get that production for cap that won't get used.

  • They would create a hole that can never be completely filled on Pittsburgh's roster
  • They would get instant production from a very-motivated RB
  • They would use the pick that would have been blown on Saquon on another blue-chip prospect
  • They wouldn't even flinch at the cap space.  "Ain't nothing but sand on a beach" as Ross Perot would say
Click to expand...
Wasn't a cheap shot - I said that based solely on the fact that the Browns have enormous cap space and could then use the premium draft picks on other positions.  Paying Bell $60M over 4 years doesn't feel like something Belichick would do, but the Browns are in a position to do that without feeling Bell's cap hit like Pittsburgh or NE would.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I know the RB position has been devalued but it is kind of criminal that Landry's first year tag is $16MM and Bell on his second tag is $14MM.
Click to expand...
I agree.  It seems an awful lot like collusion how every single NFL owner has devalued the position.  Not only in terms of draft capital but in real money paid out to these guys who take a tremendous beating.

LeVeon made some great points about his case to get paid.

--------------------------

Spotrac‏Verified account @spotrac 1d1 day ago

Most Cash Earned among RBs since 2013

  • 1) A. Peterson: $47M
  • 2) L. McCoy: $40M
  • 3) M. Forte: $30M
  • 4) M. Lynch: $28M
  • 5) J. Stewart: $26M
  • .
  • .
  • .
  • 17) L. Bell: $16M
 
Bracie Smathers said:
I agree.  It seems an awful lot like collusion how every single NFL owner has devalued the position.  Not only in terms of draft capital but in real money paid out to these guys who take a tremendous beating.

LeVeon made some great points about his case to get paid.

--------------------------

Spotrac‏Verified account @spotrac 1d1 day ago

Most Cash Earned among RBs since 2013

  • 1) A. Peterson: $47M
  • 2) L. McCoy: $40M
  • 3) M. Forte: $30M
  • 4) M. Lynch: $28M
  • 5) J. Stewart: $26M
  • .
  • .
  • .
  • 17) L. Bell: $16M
Click to expand...
He's also set forth the proposition that he's also the team's No. 2 receiver - which is a great point. Heck his ypr as a RB is probably close to Landry's plus he's contributing to the run game and taking a far greater toll on his body.

 
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Bracie Smathers said:
I agree.  It seems an awful lot like collusion how every single NFL owner has devalued the position.  Not only in terms of draft capital but in real money paid out to these guys who take a tremendous beating.

LeVeon made some great points about his case to get paid.

--------------------------

Spotrac‏Verified account @spotrac 1d1 day ago

Most Cash Earned among RBs since 2013

  • 1) A. Peterson: $47M
  • 2) L. McCoy: $40M
  • 3) M. Forte: $30M
  • 4) M. Lynch: $28M
  • 5) J. Stewart: $26M
  • .
  • .
  • .
  • 17) L. Bell: $16M
Click to expand...
Lost in that is the fact that Bell was on his 2nd round rookie deal for all but one year of this span.  He also was offered a 5 year, $66.5 million deal last off-season which would have made him uncuttable without a $15M+ dead money cap hit for the first three years of the deal (meaning $42M of that $66.5M was essentially guaranteed.)  This same list a few years from now would have looked mighty different, and his name would have been in that #1 spot.

I don't blame him for trying to get his, but it's not as if the Steelers aren't coming correct.  They offered a deal that would have made him the highest paid RB in football by a factor of about 65% ahead of the next highest-paid guy and Bell turned it down.  The fact is, certain positions don't carry a premium due to shelf-life of players, availability of talent league-wide vs. available roster spots, etc.  Supply and demand drives the economy and the NFL is no different.  At some point, he has to either decide between being the highest paid back in the league by a wide margin and playing the next few seasons where he has a legit shot at a ring (and where he claims to want to finish his career) or getting every last dollar he can get his hands on, wherever that may be.  It's his choice - he seems to be leaning towards the latter even as he claims not to be.  Time will tell.

 
Gandalf said:
The steeler have the leverage here. Franchise Bell one more year, then let him walk. He’s not retiring at 25. From a Bell perspective, you get paid a lot of money for one year and then sign with the Pats in 2019 to stick it up the Steelers...

win-win scenario 
Click to expand...
Probably not but he will definitely sit out all of training camp and last year that really set the offense back for the first 3-4 games.   He could also choose to sit until week 10 to play out his contract, save 10 games of wear & tear, and still collect > $5 million for the year.    I don't think he would do that but he might.

I really wish the Steelers would let him walk if they can't work out a long term deal which is now almost a certainty

 
Godsbrother said:
Probably not but he will definitely sit out all of training camp and last year that really set the offense back for the first 3-4 games.   He could also choose to sit until week 10 to play out his contract, save 10 games of wear & tear, and still collect > $5 million for the year.    I don't think he would do that but he might.

I really wish the Steelers would let him walk if they can't work out a long term deal which is now almost a certainty
Click to expand...
The last real news I saw was that Bell didn't expect a deal this week, but still expected one to happen. He said something to the effect of, we're a lot closer this year than last year, I think a deal will get done.

The only date that matters is in July, so there's plenty of time to hash things out, and if things look really bad then they can see if someone falls to us in the draft and they can revoke the Franchise Tag. 

 
steelers1080 said:
The last real news I saw was that Bell didn't expect a deal this week, but still expected one to happen. He said something to the effect of, we're a lot closer this year than last year, I think a deal will get done.

The only date that matters is in July, so there's plenty of time to hash things out, and if things look really bad then they can see if someone falls to us in the draft and they can revoke the Franchise Tag. 
Click to expand...
Yeah I mean both side probably have too much to lose so a deal should wind up happening.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
I don't blame him for trying to get his, but it's not as if the Steelers aren't coming correct.  They offered a deal that would have made him the highest paid RB in football by a factor of about 65% ahead of the next highest-paid guy and Bell turned it down.  The fact is, certain positions don't carry a premium due to shelf-life of players, availability of talent league-wide vs. available roster spots, etc.  Supply and demand drives the economy and the NFL is no different.  At some point, he has to either decide between being the highest paid back in the league by a wide margin and playing the next few seasons where he has a legit shot at a ring (and where he claims to want to finish his career) or getting every last dollar he can get his hands on, wherever that may be.  It's his choice - he seems to be leaning towards the latter even as he claims not to be.  Time will tell.
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Its not the label of being the highest paid, he states he wants to get paid his true value based on his contribution to the team.  He knows he is making a contribution equal to or surpassing AB to the team and wants to get paid based on that criteria not on DeVonta's contract or any other RB contract.  

Supply and demand works in a true free market with more than 31 other motivated owners trying to keep down employee costs who just happen to hold closed door meetings annually.  They don't want to pay this position based on contribution to the team but on low shelf life where most never get a shot at second contracts so the cost is built in to stay low for that position.  

LeVeon Bell really does bring up valid points trumping the home cooking or shot at a ring.  Those arguments can't hold up forever at some point they fall flat.  Jerome Harrison probably said the same things but he actually got paid for his efforts and he took a major beating along the way and still has a shot at another ring.  

Bell has taken his beating but he hasn't been paid based on his contribution to the team.

 
zeeshan2 said:
Per source, the Steelers have officially tagged RB Le'Veon Bell.

https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/971107797533421571
Click to expand...
Let the holdout begin!

And I highly doubt that if they pull the tag that he'd wind up playing for Todd Haley w/Cleveland, err at least according to DeAngelo Williams who claims Haley put in a 'punishment package' for LeVeon at the start of last season.

----------------------------

DeAngelo Williams‏Verified account @DeAngeloRB 1d1 day ago

DeAngelo Williams Retweeted Aditi Kinkhabwala

That was the punishment package that Todd Haley put into place but I know u have to report the stats

DeAngelo Williams added,

Aditi KinkhabwalaVerified account @AKinkhabwala

If #Steelers, Le’Veon Bell don’t come to agreement and he plays under franchise tag, he will not participate in workouts/camp. Here’s why that’s bad: In 2017’s first three games, Bell avg 60 rush yards (180 total on 52 carries…

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Its not the label of being the highest paid, he states he wants to get paid his true value based on his contribution to the team.  He knows he is making a contribution equal to or surpassing AB to the team and wants to get paid based on that criteria not on DeVonta's contract or any other RB contract.  

Supply and demand works in a true free market with more than 31 other motivated owners trying to keep down employee costs who just happen to hold closed door meetings annually.  They don't want to pay this position based on contribution to the team but on low shelf life where most never get a shot at second contracts so the cost is built in to stay low for that position.  

LeVeon Bell really does bring up valid points trumping the home cooking or shot at a ring.  Those arguments can't hold up forever at some point they fall flat.  Jerome Harrison probably said the same things but he actually got paid for his efforts and he took a major beating along the way and still has a shot at another ring.  

Bell has taken his beating but he hasn't been paid based on his contribution to the team.
Click to expand...
Bell has been offered a contract that is well above the next highest paid RB and his salary would have been 3rd highest on the team behind Ben Roesthliberger and Antonio Brown.   I am sure Bell would disagree but that is exactly where he belongs in importance to the team.  DeAngelo Williams did pretty well with this offense in 2015 -- not up to Leveon Bell standards but pretty damn good and Williams was making a fraction of what Bell is asking.

I respect how good Bell is but I think he benefits from playing on a very good offense too and I doubt he would be as productive on most offenses around the league.  I would hate to lose him but I think I would rather have the cap savings to sign a decent veteran RB, and help at ILB and/or DB + a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2019 than having a disgruntled Bell at $14.5 million for one year.

 
DeAngelo was a stud, don’t let the dumb Panthers forcing a time share all those years fool you Steeler fans into thinking just anyone can produce other than Bell. 

 
CabinFever said:
DeAngelo was a stud, don’t let the dumb Panthers forcing a time share all those years fool you Steeler fans into thinking just anyone can produce other than Bell. 
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I don't think for one minute that any of the FAs available would match Bell's production but I do think there are a handful that could do a nice job and cost 1/3 of Bell.  Throw in a rookie RB drafted in the top 3 rounds and you could be in pretty decent shape.   Look at the teams in the Super Bowl -- neither had a back like Bell.

The Steelers need to focus on filling some holes on defense if they want to win another championship and the savings from not signing Bell could help.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Bell would need to sign the tender (or agree to long term deal) before they could trade him.
Click to expand...
The point is they have the ability to trade him if some other team is willing to pay him. I think it’s best to move on, maybe it means he’s not worth the 1st or 2nd I am hoping for in my head but take what they can get and move on from this headache where replacement level is extremely low for the position.

 
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