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RB Miles Sanders, DAL (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Zyphros
- Start date
Desert_Power
Footballguy
For Chuba or Sanders?
for Chuba
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Thanks for clarifying. Strikes me that bringing in a less expensive/talented running back in FA would have been a better scenario for Chuba. I know there are a lot of folks that don't think highly of Miles though.
Overall, I think it will be a timeshare behind a line that supported both RBs having success last year.
zamboni
Footballguy
Different staff, different system. In this case, I’m following the money.
rockaction
Footballguy
Some of that was on Hurts.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah, for sure
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
How? Sanders is the best RB on the market.
Thats debatable, but he's not been a receiving threat. It's a FA vs a rookie so a 2 year deal vs 4 years. Talent-wise, they're not that far apart. Sure, Sanders will be the initial starter but could be a split.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
I personally think Sanders is vastly more talent than Hubbard.
Struggling to see this as a positive for Hubbard, or a best case scenario really. Best case scenario was a return to the status quo of last season as a change of pace behind/alongside Foreman.
Struggling to see this as a positive for Hubbard, or a best case scenario really. Best case scenario was a return to the status quo of last season as a change of pace behind/alongside Foreman.
Birdie048
Footballguy
I thought part of the Coaching belief in Phil was Sanders fumbled too often for their liking and that is why he was RBBC. Has been for years ...
Reich at Carolina might not be so worried with a young struggling offense on a TO, but Phil Coaches were big on it
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Sanders isn't a good receiver? I think Hurts just didn't throw to RBs - he was fine with Wentz and Foles.
Sanders has been a committee back mostly, so of course Chuba is still likely to get some run - but I think there were much better "best case scenarios" than the top free agent RB signing with them.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'd say that's the consensus take - because it's the more logical take.
Maybe underutilized in passing game but he's fine not anything special there. They were always going to add somebody at RB, and I don't think Sanders is particularly great. No reason for me to continue harping on. My view seems to be not shared by most of you guys right now.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Never been a Sanders truther, but he’s better than Chuba Hubbard and it isn’t close.
Tau837
Footballguy
As a rookie in 2019, he had 50/509/3 receiving (10.2 YPR) on 63 targets. Then Wentz imploded in 2020, and Hurts took over.
His receiving performance in 2019 shows he had very good receiving ability then. I'm not sure what would have caused him to lose it since then. It seems more likely to me that the offense changed when Hurts took over.
zamboni
Footballguy
IIRC, he had a bit of a case of the drops in his second year and since that point had been largely replaced on 3rd downs. Never seemed to regain that role and the offense clearly changed under Hurts. We'll see if he gets an opportunity to build that side of his game again.
what did Lamar Jackson lose since 2019?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Money?
Tau837
Footballguy
You are comparing apples and oranges. Sanders' usage changed, as did the offensive scheme and QB throwing him the ball. And, as someone pointed out after my post you quoted, possibly due to him having a problem with drops.
Jackson's usage did not change, other than missing a lot of games due to injury, but he was unable to replicate his 2019 performance. Those things (injuries, reduced performance) are undermining his position on a new contract. I don't think this is a particularly controversial statement or perspective.
Nice try at a gotcha moment.
ex-ghost
Footballguy
Seahawks, money in the bank.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Seems awfully redundant for a team that just spent a 2nd on Walker who looked the part and have some pretty glaring needs elsewhere.
Miles contract details. 4/25.4M, $5.9m signing bonus, $1.08m fully guaranteed 2023, $4.02m fully guaranteed for 2024, $5.5m for 2025 and $4.24m in 2026. $2m bonus is on roster third day of league year in 2024, $1m roster bonus if on 3rd day of league year in 2025. $1m roster bonus is on the roster the third day of the league year in 2026, $200k workout bonus 2023-2025
In real terms he got $11m fully guaranteed and here is how he his contract would work if Carolina wants to move on before 4 years:
One year(2023): $11m plus up to $200k in workout bonus
Two years(23-24): $13M plus up to $400k in workout bonus
All guarantees would be out so you could look at this as a 2 year/$13m contract with up to $400k in bonus. That's how I see it, everything after that is basically a team year to year option and this looks like it's really designed as a two year deal with the salary. But if they do want to keep him longer it would look like this:
3 years(23-25): $19.5m plus up to $600K in workout bonus
4 years life of the contract covering him through end of 2026: $24.8M with up to $600K in workout bonus.
In real terms he got $11m fully guaranteed and here is how he his contract would work if Carolina wants to move on before 4 years:
One year(2023): $11m plus up to $200k in workout bonus
Two years(23-24): $13M plus up to $400k in workout bonus
All guarantees would be out so you could look at this as a 2 year/$13m contract with up to $400k in bonus. That's how I see it, everything after that is basically a team year to year option and this looks like it's really designed as a two year deal with the salary. But if they do want to keep him longer it would look like this:
3 years(23-25): $19.5m plus up to $600K in workout bonus
4 years life of the contract covering him through end of 2026: $24.8M with up to $600K in workout bonus.
ex-ghost
Footballguy
Nope, lots of talk about Bijan being the pick. Pete loves his rbs. Believe me, this would not be my pick, but it seems very possible.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
That pick makes no sense.
Where are you seeing this talk? Even twitter (where you can find people speculating on every single player to every single team) has very little on it.
Not gonna happen at all.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Not remotely, no.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I doubt that. Also @massraider does Philly have an earlier pick? Because he won’t make it to the Eagles.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
They have the Saints pick.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Thanks. I still don’t believe he goes to the Eagles.
ex-ghost
Footballguy
Local boards and radio. Everyone loves draft speculation.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Not realistic at all. They have a good RB. They need help elsewhere in the worst way.
eighsse2
Footballguy
I don't know anything about this website, like how current its listings are ... but, Seattle isn't even visible until you click "load more" to show the last 2 teams in the list.
everyone seems to love Bijan speculation. Seattle/Dallas/Philly are three spots that make almost no sense, yet people are talking about him going there because it's exciting. You don't get this kind of hype and speculation for defensive players going mid to end of round 1.
I'd say 90% chance he's taken between picks 15 and 25.
damn, dallas makes no sense to me either really.
massraider
Footballguy
I guess. I feel like they've become smarter drafters than in the past though.
I think Dallas makes sense. They don't view Pollard as an everydown back and combined with being in last year of his deal I think it makes sense.
ex-ghost
Footballguy
And because he is being talked about as the next best thing since Barkley.
eighsse2
Footballguy
I don't think Dallas seems crazy, but I wouldn't think it seemed like a really sensible choice, and definitely wouldn't like it for Bijan's fantasy value.
Until they cut Sanders, I thought Philadelphia was nonsense. But now I could see it.
They have Penny, Gainwell, Scott all under contract. No chance. Especially not at 10 or anywhere near it, and doubt he lasts until 30, and we don't have ammo to move up and moving up for a rb would be nuts. Not happening.
Why do you think this? Zeke always clouded the situation, I think he's an every down back.
rockaction
Footballguy
Dallas coaches themselves reiterating he's a twelve to fifteen touch a game guy and anything more than that is asking him to get hurt. You can agree with that or not, but that's what they said and was directly from their mouths. So either they were lying or they're going to find another committee back in Dallas.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
That should tell you how folks view his upside in Carolina
He's not even being discussed in a thread dedicated to him
A lot of small comments over the years(I live in the area and have owned Pollard on multiple dynasty teams since he came into the league so I've been paying attention) combined with the way they use him.
I can't look up all that stuff and a lot of it was on radio or TV but here are some quotes from their RB coach, Skip Peete who took a unilateral job with Tampa. You are welcome to say or think that because Peete just left none of this means anything going forward. These comments were from last season and article linked. He talks a bit about he feels strongly about having a 2 back attack(maybe take note Rachaad White investors) and then adds some comments specifically about Pollard. Again I've heard comments like simlar echoed over the years by the likes of Stephen Jones, just can't find it for you:
[Pollard] played a total of 30 plays, and I think that's his max - as far as total play count - because then the juice doesn't become the same and he's not as quick, not as fast," said Peete. "When he got that long run on third-and-1, soon as he got to the sideline he said, 'Coach, I'm done. Done for the game. I've got no more.'
"Tony's obviously a very talented runner and good all-around back, but some guys are race cars. Some guys are high-quality, expensive sedans and those sedans can go for a long distance at a very high rate, whereas race cars go very fast and quick and run out of gas."
Elliott is the "very physical, downhill runner", according to Peete, that hammers opponents into being tenderized for Pollard's cuts, and the latter is why the Cowboys understand Pollard will routinely average more yards per carry - seeing as it's Elliott doing the heavy lifting to set his counterpart up for the home run play.
"[Halfbacks like Pollard] are always going to have a bigger average, and make more explosive plays but, at the end of the day, when you get into certain games, the race car can't handle that punishment because they get worn down. I think you need both [types]," said Peete.
I just saw you had responded. Yes, this and I posted some of those comments.
rockaction
Footballguy
Oh, cool. Better with the actual words instead of hearsay.
rockaction
Footballguy
See meno's post. That was the RB coach specifically talking about usage and durability, not the decision by the OC whether to run at all or not.
I don't think Dallas has all of the sudden changed their mind as an organization about Pollard. I highly doubt it.
I don't think Dallas has all of the sudden changed their mind as an organization about Pollard. I highly doubt it.
