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RB Rashaad Penny, CAR (1 Viewer)

I thought Carson clearly outplayed him this game.  I have unsuccessfully tried to buy low on Penny, because I thought he was impressive in his brief preseason action even though the numbers weren't great.  I thought the lack of preseason action and the Carson talk would lower the price, but I couldn't get him at a price I liked.  I've have always liked Carson and own him in 2 of 4 dynasty teams, but thought Penny would eventually take over because he seems bigger, more agile and fluid in his footwork.  The thing that stood out to me in this first game  is that Carson just seems to be more explosive.  Penny got first round pick treatment imo, because he played more than he should have given how Carson was going.  I certainly have more confidence in Carson after this game.

 
I wasn't a buyer in dynasty, but I have him in my redraft league as my RB3. He didn't show much in this game. Very small sample size, but he doesn't seem gifted with the same cutting ability as the really impressive young backs like Mixon and Barkley. Maybe it's just rust. He's a rookie and he barely played this preseason (same applies to Saquon though and he already has two highlight reel runs). I think the play here in redraft is to try to lock down both backs and hope that one of them emerges. The good news for Penny owners is that Carson's low utilization should have his owners frustrated, and the same applies for the reverse. Another couple weeks of useless RBBC and everyone will want to wash their hands of this situation.

From a dynasty standpoint, it's too early to say much and he might turn out to be great, but you wonder if we're going to look back on this pick as a mistake when Chubb and Guice were both out there for Seattle. Those two arguably looked like superior talents on tape. Still very early in the process though.

 
Encouraging to see him in at the end with the game on the line. Too bad Mike Davis and Prosise are both mixed in as well. Even if he turned into a bellcow (which is unlikely), I don't think this offense runs enough for him to be a fantasy difference maker.

 
Penny looks like a JAG.  Maybe I'm just spoiled watching all the elite young RB talent out there?  Penny doesn't look anything like one of those guys to me. 

 
kittenmittens said:
Penny looks like a JAG.  Maybe I'm just spoiled watching all the elite young RB talent out there?  Penny doesn't look anything like one of those guys to me. 
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Looks overweight and no explosion to me. Here is a case of betting on pedigree because no matter what Carson does, or they don't allow him to do, it's obvious they want Penny to take the job.

I think Carson looks a lot better. I'd rather own Penny for ROS but I'd rather not own any of them.

 
menobrown said:
No. Carroll said he was gassed because he also played special teams and added he wanted to get a look at Penny. 
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The guy he said took command of the running get last week was playing special teams. That sounds like Pete.

I am a big Carroll fan but sometimes he forgets he isn't coaching in the NCAA.

 
kittenmittens said:
Penny looks like a JAG.  Maybe I'm just spoiled watching all the elite young RB talent out there?  Penny doesn't look anything like one of those guys to me. 
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Which young guy you talking about? RoJo who is has been inactive, Michel who has had 10 carries at a 3.4 clip, Royce who is splitting time with a UDFA and completely dismissed in the passing game, Kerryon who is splitting with Blount and Theo Riddick or Saquon who is averaging below 3 ypc if not for his 60 yd gain?

Penny has broken tackles when given the opportunity. He looks similar to what he did in college. He can catch out of the backfield and is nimble in space. I’m not sure game script or the Seattle offense as a whole will allow it but I’d like to see him with 15-18 carries and 5-7 targets. The season is young. People want to bury him because Rotoworld decides to take a Pete Carroll blurb where he is praising Penny but says he’s 10 lbs over his combine weight in passing. Ludicrous.

 
Bojang0301 said:
Which young guy you talking about? RoJo who is has been inactive, Michel who has had 10 carries at a 3.4 clip, Royce who is splitting time with a UDFA and completely dismissed in the passing game, Kerryon who is splitting with Blount and Theo Riddick or Saquon who is averaging below 3 ypc if not for his 60 yd gain?
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Gurley, Elliott, Barkley, Kamara, Cook, Fournette, Mixon, Hunt. Those guys are all 21-24 and seem to be on another level.  It is still too soon to judge though. 

Barkley is really, really good.

 
kittenmittens said:
Gurley, Elliott, Barkley, Kamara, Cook, Fournette, Mixon, Hunt. Those guys are all 21-24 and seem to be on another level.  It is still too soon to judge though. 

Barkley is really, really good.
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Barkley is really, really good. Just reinforcing lessons to myself here about being arrogant when OC’s are awful and OLine’s are even worse. 

BTW here is example #2103 why not to trust Pete Carroll: https://twitter.com/chad_scott13/status/1041903380304617472?s=21

 
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Just to put things in context, here are the seahawks drives

1st drive 8 plays

1st down Carson 9 yards

2nd and 1Carson 2 yards

1st down Carson 2 yards

2nd and 8 Pass to penny incomplete

2nd and 4 penny 2 yards

2nd drive 4 plays

1st down Carson 4 yards 

Punt

3rd drive 3 plays

1st down Carson 4 yards

Punt

4 th drive 3 plays

1st down Carson 3 yards

Punt 

5th drive 3 plays

2nd and 12 penny no gain

Punt

6th drive 8 plays

No run plays (started at 1:07 remaining in the half) 

Field goal, 10-3 bears at halftime

7th drive 3 plays

No run plays

8th drive 3 plays

1st down pass incomplete to Carson

Punt

9th drive 10 plays

1st down penny 10 yards

1st down penny 1 yard

1st down penny -1 yard

1st down penny 4 yards

2nd and 6 mike Davis -1 yard

1st down penny 3 yards

2nd and 7 play action to penny, touchdown pass to Lockett 

10th drive 4 plays

1st down penny 6 yards

2nd and 4 penny 4 yards

1st down penny 1 yard

2nd and 9 pass intended for penny intercepted for a touchdown

11th drive 5 plays

2nd and 2 Mike Davis 1 yard 

3rd and 1 mike Davis 3 yards

12th drive 11 plays

1st down pass to prosise 8 yards 

1st down pass to prosise 6 yards

1st down pass to prosise 8 yards

Touchdown pass to dissly 

 
What I see -

The bears d was too good and the seahawks o line isn't.  A week after facing the Broncos, we haven't seen much improvement from the o line but the are two of the top defenses in the nfl.

Carson had one good 9 yard run on his first attempt then not much. They had a ton of 3 and outs and were trailing by two scores so they made the switch to penny. It went pretty well - he had a 10 yard, 6 yard and two 4 yard runs and with Carson who had a 9 and two 4s. There wasn't a huge difference except that penny got crushed in the backfield while taking a handoff twice, once for no gain and once for -1 yard. If you take out those two plays, which didn't happen on handoffs to Carson, his 8 for 31 would have looked almost identical to Carson's 6 for 24. Up to you whether that matters when comparing the two. 

Penny helped them get two first downs (a 10 yard run and back to back runs of 6 and 4) compared with one first down for Carson (a 9 yard run followed by a 2 yard run). 

Mostly schottenheimer only used them on first downs. It's embarrassingly predictable. 

Carson started and played most of the first half, penny took over in the second half and had 6 carries in a 10 play drive.  The 10th play was a play action fake to penny that was a touchdown pass to Lockett.  

The next drive was 4 straight plays to penny.  3 runs and then a pass intended for him that got intercepted. 

Prosise and mike Davis barely played until the final drive in garbage time. 

I don't think penny has taken the starting job but I do think he's going to continue to have a major role. I think he played pretty well and if the bears hadn't picked off that pass, people might have said he was the spark that turned the game around. They were trailing 17-3 and he got 10 of 14 plays on two critical drives including one that led to a touchdown.

I have about zero interest in Carson.

I do have interest in penny going forward, because if he can take the 3 down role, he's a good enough receiver to be a rb1. He hasn't shown the yards per carry yet, but he's faced two tough defenses. I think he's a high upside buy low guy right now but he has zero chance of starting for me any time soon. 

 
Context: Penny got all of his semi-decent rushing yards in the 4th quarter with Seattle down by 14 & 7.

Context: Penny was largely fresh in the 4th vs a defense that wasn't and they ran almost entirely in the no-huddle.

 
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He had a couple of decent runs, but overall didn't do much (although I doubt many backs could do much of anything in this offense). He looks a bit.....portly..... to me, like he could stand to lose a few pounds. 

I like his potential in the passing game, but he doesn't look very dynamic as a runner. I'd be a bit concerned if I spent a high rookie pick on him. 

 
How can a rookie look old and slow? Penny won't have much if any value in the near term unless there is an injury, and even then I'd have to see a lot more than what I have seen so far to start him. That said Carson is most likely not a long term answer so he will get more opps in the future.

 
RushHour said:
He had a couple of decent runs, but overall didn't do much (although I doubt many backs could do much of anything in this offense). He looks a bit.....portly..... to me, like he could stand to lose a few pounds. 

I like his potential in the passing game, but he doesn't look very dynamic as a runner. I'd be a bit concerned if I spent a high rookie pick on him. 
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Eddie Lacy 2.0

 
NeverEnough said:
Eddie Lacy 2.0
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Penny had good numbers, good tape, looked like a promising young RB talent... he just put on 15+ lbs and isn't the same.

It seems like people are just unable to throw it out there.. dude got fat and is underperforming because of it.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Good buy low? Give me a range of WRs it would take to get him.
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In redraft: Albert Wilson, Sanu, Snead, Tyrell Williams, Moncrief, Beasley.

In dynasty, hard to say. A rookie WR who isn't yet producing (basically anyone other than Ridley, maybe Calloway), an aging WR who isn't producing at an elite level, a WR in the middle who is around the WR2/3 bubble. 

 
Shrugs said:
In redraft: Albert Wilson, Sanu, Snead, Tyrell Williams, Moncrief, Beasley.

In dynasty, hard to say. A rookie WR who isn't yet producing (basically anyone other than Ridley, maybe Calloway), an aging WR who isn't producing at an elite level, a WR in the middle who is around the WR2/3 bubble. 
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I own him and wouldn’t consider trading him for any of the WRs you listed. WAY too early to give up on him at this point.

Edit: sorry. Just noticed you said “redraft”. He might be droppable in redraft.

 
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kutta said:
I own him and wouldn’t consider trading him for any of the WRs you listed. WAY too early to give up on him at this point.

Edit: sorry. Just noticed you said “redraft”
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Yeah, was kind of joking with those WRs in a redraft, where I own him. In dynasty, he definitely still has value.

 
my surplus WRs that I would give up (in order): Dede Westbrook, Geronimo Allison - both because of low volume. 

Don't think I would part with my WR4 (Mike Williams) or my IR guy/WR7 (Alshon Jeffrey)

 
Rashaad Penny - RB -  Seahawks

Seahawks coach Pete Carroll said Rashaad Penny is down to 228-pounds.

Penny's conditioning was an early-season concern after he ballooned to the 240s in training camp. He's now back closer to his Combine weigh-in, but it hasn't done much for him on the field. Penny has struggled with ball security and is averaging just 2.2 YPC. He's firmly behind workhorse Chris Carson for touches.

Source: Seattle Times 

Sep 29 - 3:39 PM
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He was never 240... that was a ludicrous statement by a liar coach that doesn’t have a clue what is going on with his offense and never has.

 
NeverEnough said:
Eddie Lacy 2.0
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The same Eddie Lacy who who was a complete every down back and put up 3,000 yards and 24 TDs his first two seasons?

Everyone seems to forget, or discount, the fact that Eddie's problem was never talent, it was desire and work ethic.

Eddie was a player.

 
Chaka said:
The same Eddie Lacy who who was a complete every down back and put up 3,000 yards and 24 TDs his first two seasons?

Everyone seems to forget, or discount, the fact that Eddie's problem was never talent, it was desire and work ethic.

Eddie was a player.
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No, the fat Eddie who didn't have it anymore

 
Going to get a long look today. Hope we get a similar performance as Michel. Arizona has a bad run D so if he shows poorly it’s not going to bode well in the short or long term.

 
Rashaad Penny played 16-of-66 snaps (24 percent) Week 4 against the Cardinals.

Even with Chris Carson inactive, Penny took a backseat to Mike Davis, who out-snapped him 47-to-16 and out-touched him 25-to-9. Perhaps Penny remains roster worthy because of Carson's injury, but Sunday's game suggests he is not going to be a fantasy option even if Carson is forced to miss more time.

Oct 1 - 9:34 AM
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Here's what i think. 

Penny came in in the second half of the bears game.  

He was involved in almost every play for two drives. 

At first he broke off a couple longer runs. 

Defense clearly knew he was getting the ball even though Seattle was down.

They scored on the play action fake to him.

Next drive they split him out wide to get a mismatch

Pass was intercepted

I think the seahawks drafted him to be a 3 down guy, and he can catch the ball, but he's not quite ready to start. He's shown he can pass protect in practice, but they're not ready to rely on it.  He's shown he can catch the ball, but he was the target on the interception. So until he's more consistent, there he sits, getting a handful of carries a game, while a veteran gets more work. 

So we're still in wait and see mode.  But we've also seen how quickly carroll will flip the switch, and how much better the opportunity looks for whoever the primary guy is, so you can't drop him because he could be a second half star.  I'd buy if he's cheap.

 
wow what a colossal waste of a 1st rd pick on a team that has so many holes - this is the kind of pick that should get a GM fired....just about everyone criticized it from the second he made it and it certainly looks like the critics were right....even if Penny somehow turns it around which is possible...it's clear it was a reach at a position where there was little to no need.  

 
Wooters said:
Just want to take a victory lap here. There are a lot of people that need to eat crow here. Let’s see if they will do it without naming names. Everyone go back to page 7 (post 151) and read from there. 
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Nobody, and I mean nobody, likes a really poor winner - and that would occur here if Penny’s career were over, or at least that he had established a strong track record of failing, which he has certainly not had enough time to do.

Act like you’ve been right more than once.

 
Wooters said:
Just want to take a victory lap here. There are a lot of people that need to eat crow here. Let’s see if they will do it without naming names. Everyone go back to page 7 (post 151) and read from there. 
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Or you could just not be a coward. I’m fine eating crow. Been a waste in dynasty and redraft. You’re just a waste in general. 152 posts and this is your contribution. Congrats guy. I’m sure you’ll come back if the rest of Penny’s career outside of five games is worthwhile. Actually, I know you won’t. You’re a cockroach. Now that you’ve had your moment, I’ll see you next decade. 

 
Rashaad Penny did not play a snap on offense in Week 5.

With Chris Carson healthy and Mike Davis serving as the No. 2, Penny's only involvement against the Rams was on one special teams play. Penny can safely be dropped in redraft formats.
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This kind of a move got Jerry Reese fired from the GM position of the Giants; reaching for a position that wasn't a need. What a waste of a pick, I think the dude has talent but he's not going to get an opportunity this year w/o an injury because of Lyin' Cheatin' Pete and the situation.

EDIT: really Wooters? What purpose does that serve, act like you've been in a discussion before.

 
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Kid has serious talent, but this team, this situation and this season are write-offs.

Needs to readjust this summer, bigly.

 
I am going to be attempting to buy low.  It was a bad pick mostly due to the situation, but he still has talent and it's possible the situation improves.  It can't get worse.  I own Carson so I am interested in Penny for the future.  

 
worrierking said:
I am going to be attempting to buy low.  It was a bad pick mostly due to the situation, but he still has talent and it's possible the situation improves.  It can't get worse.  I own Carson so I am interested in Penny for the future.  
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I want to buy low.  But then I think to myself, Carson is on rookie deal for another 3 years, Davis a cheap veteran and the organization has made 0 attempts to fix their o-line in 3 years it seems.  Next year I wouldn't be surprised if they went WR, CB, CB, S or something and still think they're ok.  The only thing that gives me confidence in Seattle is Russell Wilson and he has no say in those things.  

 
Bojang0301 said:
Or you could just not be a coward. I’m fine eating crow. Been a waste in dynasty and redraft. You’re just a waste in general. 152 posts and this is your contribution. Congrats guy. I’m sure you’ll come back if the rest of Penny’s career outside of five games is worthwhile. Actually, I know you won’t. You’re a cockroach. Now that you’ve had your moment, I’ll see you next decade. 
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Less "victory laps" rubbing people's nose in it. And zero calling people wastes. Thanks. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
Less "victory laps" rubbing people's nose in it. And zero calling people wastes. Thanks. 
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When will you address troll accounts vs people who actually contribute around here? Seems to me real contributions are low anymore, I would think that would be a priority. Or are you going to keep letting people who actually post useful stuff continue to get baited and ban them all? Serious question, then I’m done with it.

 
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This guy is not one but two injuries away from having marginal value. I mean let's say next week bot hCarson and Davis get injured ... are you really that excited to see this overweight guy featured? It's not like it's Chubb sitting back there waiting for his opp. Chances are he would split carries with another JAG even if he got his opp from dual injuries. I'd love for someone to give me a different narrative, but there seems to be better opps out there with more talented guys that only need one injury to take over.

 
Wooters said:
I just got another like by Stuart Ullman, 2 posts up.  Thanks Stuart.  So that makes my 'liked' posts 1 out of every 1.94.  Getting better!

Oh, and how ironic that Stuart is the guy that liked my post.  Bojang, isn't Stuart (or Stuey- as you mocked him) the guy that you are arguing with in the Royce Freeman thread?  Yes.  Yes it is.  Seems like are you getting into 'fights/debates' with multiple people, in several threads, and they all seem to end up with you personally attacking the other person.  So please stop calling other people trolls, and maybe take a look in the mirror.
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So you’re an Eminance burner. Cool, glad that’s allowed to go on around here still.

 
Wooters said:
I'm not trolling.  But my comments in this thread, and the Royce Freeman thread were trolled specifically by you (and admittedly by others as well).  I put out legit reasons why one should be cautious on this guy, and you openly mocked me without a rebuttal.  You're the only one that has used personal attacks, and spoken without so much of an ounce of respect.  I was speaking generally to the masses.  It was you that decided to specifically quote my post(s) and mock.  So that's the only reason why I wanted to bump this thread.  I should of expected the response I got from you, but I thought that maybe you would ignore or be more respectful when you were deemed very wrong.  Whoops.

Oh and by the way.  How can a troll have a much higher percentage of 'liked' posts, than a so-called 'non-troll'?  Your liked posts are 1 out of every 4.45.  My liked posts are 1 out of every 1.96.  Doesn't that prove that my posts have more substance than yours?  Like a 227% faster clip?  Yup.  I believe it does.  Thanks for playing mate.
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"likes" are a relatively new addition to the board. He could have had 5,000 posts that had no chance to be liked.

 
I never attacked anyone in the Royce Freeman thread. I have like 4 posts in it. So you must be confused Mr. Ullman... er, I mean Eminance, er, I mean, Wooters.

 
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