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RB Ronald Jones, Cowboys (2 Viewers)

I might be in the vast minority, but I'd at least consider giving a 2nd for RoJo. You aren't going to get him for a 3rd. Too much upside for the current owner, IMO.

If you assume a 14-team league, I don't think 24 - 28 is far-fetched. Like most people, I've soured on CEH a bit. As it stands right now, I believe RoJo is a better pure runner. 

I've always been an upside guy which has worked well for me over the long haul. This could very easily end up being a strict RBBC, but I favor RoJo at first glance.

 
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I never said he would go for a 3rd, only that was his value IMO.  Like I said, you will have Jones owners not finding too many trade partners for a 2nd.  
It's obvious you don't like Jones and that is part of your thought process but keep in mind that I think you play in mainly larger roster dynasty leagues and a lot of us here mainly play in FFPC style were I suppose you know we are 20 man rosters in-season and 16 off-season with 14 position player max because we have to carry a K and D.

So in this format we don't have nearly as much time to hold onto a prospect. I'm cutting or being forced to give away for peanuts players I'd look at drafting in the second-third round of this upcoming draft. This format immediacy has an increased importance.  Just something to keep in mind for how some of us view the seconds in FFPC and that is not at all to say I don't value them.

 
It's obvious you don't like Jones and that is part of your thought process but keep in mind that I think you play in mainly larger roster dynasty leagues and a lot of us here mainly play in FFPC style were I suppose you know we are 20 man rosters in-season and 16 off-season with 14 position player max because we have to carry a K and D.

So in this format we don't have nearly as much time to hold onto a prospect. I'm cutting or being forced to give away for peanuts players I'd look at drafting in the second-third round of this upcoming draft. This format immediacy has an increased importance.  Just something to keep in mind for how some of us view the seconds in FFPC and that is not at all to say I don't value them.
👍🏽 A lot of us play in IDP leagues too, which makes 2nd round picks quite a bit more valuable. 

 
I would give a mid 2nd round rookie pick(12 team non ppr) for R Jones.

He does not have to pass block in KC. The RBs will occasionally do a chip

block on their way to a pass pattern. 2023 KC might draft another RB but

there is value here.

 
Why wouldn't KC draft their RB of the future in 2022 with 4 picks in the first 2 rounds?

Jones and CEH, meh.

And even take a chance with a WR early.

 
I would give a mid 2nd round rookie pick(12 team non ppr) for R Jones.

He does not have to pass block in KC. The RBs will occasionally do a chip

block on their way to a pass pattern. 2023 KC might draft another RB but

there is value here.
Not to mention CEH’s consistent struggles in short yardage. I distinctly recall a 3-down series from the 1 where he couldn’t punch it in souring Reid using him like that. 

Having the presumed GL back in an effective offense with Mahomes behind center could have a lot of value, especially in non-PPR. 

Just more food for thought. 

 
Why wouldn't KC draft their RB of the future in 2022 with 4 picks in the first 2 rounds?

Jones and CEH, meh.

And even take a chance with a WR early.
I suspect they’ll go WR early.

Many win-now teams don’t want to entrust a rookie RB vs a more proven veteran back. 

 
And he can actually do something after he catches the ball. Other than get immediately tackled. 
To be fair to CEH his YPC is a tad higher then ROJO's whereas ROJO's catch percentage is a tad higher. Like I was saying if you stack them up vs each other on a per target basis it's quite similar.

The major difference is CEH put up huge receiving numbers in college, against major comp, looked good doing it and most of us thought that was a big part of his skillset and for whatever reason(s) it's just frustratingly failed to come to fruition.

Based on college tape CEH blows him away is what I"m saying, but based on what they've done in the NFL they've been similar.

 
But Jones can't catch either.
Like the fumbling, this is an overblown narrative. He’s actually a fairly fluid receiver.

his primary flaw is in pass protection, which impacts his overall play but sort of has the same result since he’s less likely to be on the field for passing downs. 

Or maybe Arians is a jerk and didn’t want to use him that way, because the one season he was featured he also caught 28 passes, & Tom Brady never once went to the hospital because of a blown block. :shrug:  

I still don’t really know if CEH is a better receiver than RoJo because they haven’t really used him like that. @JohnnyU is very hopeful they will with he Hill departure, but why wouldn’t Reid have used him in the screen game before? He had 36 receptions his rookie year (with a long of 12), and just 19 last year (putrid long of 8 ) with 1 & 2 ReTDs respectively.

So it’s not like CEH has been the 2nd coming of Brian Westbrook that folks predicted on draft day. Jones might well threaten him in the passing game, too. His YAC is potentially superior. 

Fact is, CEH has never lived up to the hype on any part of his game, and while RoJo has some holes in his game, let’s not pretend he’s stuck behind JT.  There’s a potential scenario where RoJo becomes the man in KC, and given CEH’s injury history, it’s much greater than zero.

Please note: I am not the Ronald Jones fan club President. He’s been a frustrating player to own. I’m just trying to look at what’s possible here, and where the value is in that backfield. 

It’s truly hard to imagine a better landing spot, or situation.

And based on replies here, a large segment of the FF community still religiously believes he’s a chronic fumbler (despite fumbling not being a problem in college, and 5 fumbles in 3 years in he pros - which is what Gibson did just last year) or that he’s a liability as a receiver, when he’s closer to average/good than he is to poor, so hey; he might still be a value.  

I’d sell for a ‘23 2nd. I’m a hold on a ‘22 2nd. YMMV. 

Not all of this is in response to you @barackdhouse- just had a break in the market crowd and felt like ranting. 

 
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Appears you are correct, it wasn’t annotated on his profile page but there are news stories he pulled up during his first combine run.

He later ran a 4.48 at his pro day so definitely faster than CEH. (IDK if CEH ran at his pro day to try to improve his time or not, can’t find any references.)
Highly regarded running back Ronald Jones elected not to test due to the hamstring injury he sustained at the NFL Combine, much to the dismay of many who have awaited a blazing 40 time from the speedster. He did, however, run routes for Sam Darnold in the throwing session, albeit at a noticeably slower speed than normal.

https://dailytrojan.com/2018/03/21/darnold-and-other-trojans-impress-at-usc-pro-day/

 
I might be in the vast minority, but I'd at least consider giving a 2nd for RoJo. You aren't going to get him for a 3rd. Too much upside for the current owner, IMO.

If you assume a 14-team league, I don't think 24 - 28 is far-fetched. Like most people, I've soured on CEH a bit. As it stands right now, I believe RoJo is a better pure runner. 

I've always been an upside guy which has worked well for me over the long haul. This could very easily end up being a strict RBBC, but I favor RoJo at first glance.
I distinctly remember people in FF circles calling him “SlowJo” after he got drafted, and realizing how many people talk about NFL players without  having seen them play in college.

 
CEH/DWill/McKinn Owner here... I tried to get RoJo recently (prior to KC discussion)...Owner would not part. 

I offered Amon-Ra & 2.11 for RoJo & 2023 1st - then countered 2.11 straight for RoJo ...  Rejected with no reply. 

Clyde is my RB2 (CMC - yeah I know injury waiting to happen)

I have been a fan of RoJo for a while and targeted a few UFA's this off-season.  I like his skill set, but I think Arians was harsh to not utilize him more early.  I also think the core surgery CEH had last year was a major impact on his performance 2021. 

I still have faith in CEH to be Top 20 RB with Hill gone from KC, but RoJo will get some touches IMO. 

 
I think Jones is an upgrade from Darrell Williams, but I'd still bet on a heavy RBBC. 

From a redraft position, I think Mahomes and Kelce are probably the only guys I'd expect to have weekly value. Everyone else feels like they will be a guessing game week to week. 

 
I think he's ok, his catch rate is 72.3%. He drops a few but not the same as not being able to catch.

His receiving numbers when comped to per target vs CEH is extremely similar.
No no I was just being snarky, I would *love* to see Jones do something. I offered him plus ETN for Barkley last night and was told Jones was a cut, so. IDK people talking about giving up a 3rd or a 2nd and I'm like dang I'm just trying to spice something up by adding him into a deal, but everyone (seems to) hates him. I'm still HODL.

Like the fumbling, this is an overblown narrative. He’s actually a fairly fluid receiver.

Not all of this is in response to you @barackdhouse- just had a break in the market crowd and felt like ranting. 
Yeah no biggie like I said just snark. I'm not buying any shares (except in redraft) and holding in dynasty. Hard to find buyers anyway.

 
Yeah no biggie like I said just snark. I'm not buying any shares (except in redraft) and holding in dynasty. Hard to find buyers anyway.
yeah - I truly think this is one of those circumstances where he’s a hold for owners and too expensive for buyers.

Unless some of y’all listened to me a few days ago, of course, when his value was lower. 😉

Unless the RoJo owner in your league got him as a recent toss-in, there’s just too much investment in the wasted roster spot all these years to cut bait now, 1 injury or ineffective start away from opportunity. And considering RB usage in KC the last couple years, he should get a share regardless.

The big question to me is who gets those precious short yardage carries. I’d be shocked if Reid doesn’t give RoJo first opportunity considering how many chances CEH has had. 

 
I feel like Brady didn’t agree on Rojo being a good receiver. I’ll go with the body language of TB12 and instant benching after a fumble and a drop. 
 

For whatever reason, the Bucs didn’t feel like some here do. We’ll see what happens in KC. 
 

I would take a 2023 2nd in a heartbeat if I had him. 
 

 
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I feel like Brady didn’t agree on Rojo being a good receiver. I’ll go with the body language of TB12 and instant benching after a fumble and a drop. 
 

For whatever reason, the Bucs didn’t feel like some here do. We’ll see what happens in KC. 
 

I would take a 2023 2nd in a heartbeat if I had him. 
 
As would I.

Would you take a 2022 2nd? 

 
Yes, I would but I likely ask for a 2023 3rd first.
 

It seems like a messy situation in KC now with 3 capable RB’s with different skill sets.  
 

I have been wrong so many times at this hobby, so take my 2 cents with a grain of salt. 
 
Who’s the 3rd? Gore? 

And it’s all just words on a screen my friend. We all just guessing in here. None of us knows what Andy Reid is going to do with RoJo. 

 
Gimme McKinnon or Williams all day over Jones even at same price.

Not a fan 👎 simply not a consistent performer in all aspects 

I think Williams might be the most underrated receiving back in the league. Tremendous hands

 
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Gimme McKinnon or Williams all day over Jones even at same price.

Not a fan 👎 simply not a consistent performer in all aspects 

I think Williams might be the most underrated receiving back in the league. Tremendous hands
They’re both FAs. McKinnon is 29 on a twice-repaired knee.

good luck with that.

Jones only year of full-time touches was 2020 when he started 13 games. He averaged 5.1 yards per carry on 191  carries & scored 7 TDs. 28 catches for 165 for 1143 APY. He was 22 yards shy of 1K in 13 starts.

For his career he’s a 4.5 YPC guy. He’s been a pretty consistent performer, other than being denied touches. Not sure how he’s supposed to perform from the bench. On the field he’s been solid. 

Here’s hoping he gets the between the tackles and short yardage work. I’m in. 

 
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Again, not pledging for RoJo’s fan club, but since this was just a season ago, I was curious…

here’s RoJo’s 13-start* 2020, extrapolated to 17 games:

14.7 touches per game 1,274 RuYd, 9 RuTD / 36 rec, 216 ReYd 1.3 ReTD

1490 APY & 10 TD

That’d be a a pretty ok season.

If he has the chance to start some games in KC, he’ll probably be a valuable asset. 

*Full transparency, he played in 14 games that year. 3 for 9 yards, no catches. Doesn’t effect the above dramatically.

 
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I really don't understand what the Chefs have been doing these last few years at RB.  Damien and Darrell are both cheap, and played great for them when called upon.  Yet they spend a 1st round pick on CEH instead of defense/O-Line, and now R. Jones.  Why not take advantage?
Let me take a stab and take a Turing test for the Chiefs' line of thinking on this. 

It is possible (possible) that the Chiefs want to try and add somebody who gives the offense the benefit of running strong between the tackles when teams go into that double high shell at safety. Other teams have been daring KC to run, and whether it has been because of line play or running backs, they haven't had a guy solidly run in between the tackles in quite some time. They may be looking for somebody who adds to the offense rather than someone like Damien Williams, Darrel Williams, CEH, and others who seem to have benefitted from the juggernaut that is the KC offense rather than adding to the dangerousness of the offense like Jones might be able to (in their mind, that is).  

It's even now more important that they've lost Hill. 

Frankly, if you asked me what the Chiefs were thinking this offseason, I couldn't tell you, but it seems they're higher on their own scouting of Jones and decided giving Jones a one-year chance at running in between the tackles, or backing up CEH in a make-or-break year for CEH, was the way to go. They're probably doing a little of all of that, if you ask me. 

Don't forget, this is in the team that brought in Carlos Hyde into camp on a 2.8 million dollar deal a few years only to trade him unceremoniously before it even got done, handing the reins to Damien Williams, who went on to have a mediocre year that culminated in a Super Bowl after it was all said and done. It's not like they'll be stuck with Jones. I wouldn't be surprised if they bought Williams and Jerick into camp somehow. Or if they drafted a running back like SoBeDad said. Their window is closing a bit for the year in losing Hill while Kelce gets older and Mahomes's salary increases.

 
What do you think?
I'm kidding. I'm making fun of my own impatience about the whole deal. What I think? I think they add another RB or two before camp and that camp will go a long way in deciding who makes the team and who gets playing time. 

I think CEH enters the year as the tentative three-down starter until his liabilities are either exposed or he proves he can do it. If he has success in his first two games, I suspect he has a long leash on the year. I think a good start in Weeks One and Two buy him at least four-six more weeks of the lion's share. If he stumbles out of the gate, look for Ronald Jones to get some early-down work come Week Four. If he looks like some of us think he might, it'll be an open audition at that point, but nothing concrete will happen until Week Eight.

There, how's that? 

 
Yet they spend a 1st round pick on CEH instead of defense/O-Line, and now R. Jones. 
I don't think we'd be questioning the Chiefs using a first round pick on a RB if they'd have picked a handful of other RB's over him. Selecting a RB whose best trait was thought to be as a pass catcher/space back and then hardly using him like that is very odd.

I believe the team has missed a power runner ever since Hunt left and the two Willam's were serviceable at best. I'm of the opinion Jones will give them their best power running RB since Hunt left and speed to make pass heavy defenses pay for overcompensating to defend the passing game, two things I believe the team needed.

Now it remains to be seen if a RB who struggled in certain facets of the passing game is a good fit but I do see things ROJO provides they've been lacking.

 
I suspect KC will go D at 29, 30, & 50. They have to get better on that side of the ball to compete in the AFC West.
 

I can’t see them taking a RB before day-3.

 
I can’t see them taking a RB before day-3.
I don't think so either now but I really thought it would have made a ton of sense for them to try and get someone like Barkley for a third and maybe some change if need be and I think that's the range that can get him. I"m guessing he'll end up costing $2-4M in cap space more then ROJO will this year but they had room.  I like ROJO more then most but Barkley would have been fire in this offense, would have been cool to see.

 
WR is certainly a possibility, but I’d be really surprised if they go there at 29 or 30. 
The sting of losing the most explosive player in the league will steer them to select a WR if someone really good is there for the taking.  Waiting past 30 to do it won’t net them a better WR than they already have.  People are fooling themselves if they think JuJu or MVS replaces Hill.

 
The sting of losing the most explosive player in the league will steer them to select a WR if someone really good is there for the taking.  Waiting past 30 to do it won’t net them a better WR than they already have.  People are fooling themselves if they think JuJu or MVS replaces Hill.
I agree about JuJu & MVS, but the MVS signing has me pretty confident they’re going D with those picks in the 1st. 
 

I’d go so far as to say using both picks on defenders helps their chances more than using one on a WR given the whole picture.
 

 
I agree about JuJu & MVS, but the MVS signing has me pretty confident they’re going D with those picks in the 1st. 
 

I’d go so far as to say using both picks on defenders helps their chances more than using one on a WR given the whole picture.
 
It depends who's sitting there at 29.  If someone they perceive as too good to pass up and that is a WR, then they will go WR.  Otherwise, you're right, they should draft two defensive players at 29 and 30.

 
It depends who's sitting there at 29.  If someone they perceive as too good to pass up and that is a WR, then they will go WR.  Otherwise, you're right, they should draft two defensive players at 29 and 30.
Yeah, I’m curious which WRs will be on the board for them there.

 
The sting of losing the most explosive player in the league will steer them to select a WR if someone really good is there for the taking.  Waiting past 30 to do it won’t net them a better WR than they already have.  People are fooling themselves if they think JuJu or MVS replaces Hill.
Agreed here also. 

One could argue that juju Smith Schuster replaces what Hill gave them in the short to intermediate game, while MVS replaces the deep threat.

but neither of these receivers has the complete game that Hill give them, making each of them a little bit more predictable, and thus, less effective.

 
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rockaction said:
Let me take a stab and take a Turing test for the Chiefs' line of thinking on this. 

It is possible (possible) that the Chiefs want to try and add somebody who gives the offense the benefit of running strong between the tackles when teams go into that double high shell at safety. Other teams have been daring KC to run, and whether it has been because of line play or running backs, they haven't had a guy solidly run in between the tackles in quite some time. They may be looking for somebody who adds to the offense rather than someone like Damien Williams, Darrel Williams, CEH, and others who seem to have benefitted from the juggernaut that is the KC offense rather than adding to the dangerousness of the offense like Jones might be able to (in their mind, that is).  

It's even now more important that they've lost Hill. 

Frankly, if you asked me what the Chiefs were thinking this offseason, I couldn't tell you, but it seems they're higher on their own scouting of Jones and decided giving Jones a one-year chance at running in between the tackles, or backing up CEH in a make-or-break year for CEH, was the way to go. They're probably doing a little of all of that, if you ask me. 

Don't forget, this is in the team that brought in Carlos Hyde into camp on a 2.8 million dollar deal a few years only to trade him unceremoniously before it even got done, handing the reins to Damien Williams, who went on to have a mediocre year that culminated in a Super Bowl after it was all said and done. It's not like they'll be stuck with Jones. I wouldn't be surprised if they bought Williams and Jerick into camp somehow. Or if they drafted a running back like SoBeDad said. Their window is closing a bit for the year in losing Hill while Kelce gets older and Mahomes's salary increases.
Fair points. And admittedly I’m booking at it through the lens of Williamsx2 running as a 5 or 6 (of 10). Not gamebreaking.  Not  liabilities. And CEH & Jones, hopefully being 6s or 7s - not worth the capital used. If KC sees them as 8s or 9s, then it’s more understandable. Obviously I don’t see much of a difference. 
 

Always fun to read a Rockaction post if only for the vocabulary. Now I am aware of what a Turing test is. 

 
Andy Reid is one of the more vocal coaches about the importance of a RB pass protecting.

Jones was decent then not good at it in Tampa and when Fournette started to steal his job, he was worse. 

This is an odd addition. It's gotta quietly be one of the biggest off-season tasks for them, to get Rojo fixing his technique. He is NOT playing much if he doesn't. They're not gonna set up Mahomes to get shellacked. 

I'd get CEH for only minimal trade and wait n see. They're clearly not thinking he's the man here but they may find they have no choice and revert back to him.

I'd offer Rojo for anything I can get. 

Reid does not generally have allegiance to backs and has no qualms about moving them going back to Philly even. Sproles I guess is the only one. He's more like get a stable of them and let em' battle it out. 

For FF just get the guy you think is gonna win the battle and otherwise end of roster eh let's see if this guy surprises. Has Reid even had many backs that were top backs in FF? 

 
Andy Reid is one of the more vocal coaches about the importance of a RB pass protecting.

Jones was decent then not good at it in Tampa and when Fournette started to steal his job, he was worse. 

This is an odd addition. It's gotta quietly be one of the biggest off-season tasks for them, to get Rojo fixing his technique. He is NOT playing much if he doesn't. They're not gonna set up Mahomes to get shellacked. 

I'd get CEH for only minimal trade and wait n see. They're clearly not thinking he's the man here but they may find they have no choice and revert back to him.

I'd offer Rojo for anything I can get. 

Reid does not generally have allegiance to backs and has no qualms about moving them going back to Philly even. Sproles I guess is the only one. He's more like get a stable of them and let em' battle it out. 

For FF just get the guy you think is gonna win the battle and otherwise end of roster eh let's see if this guy surprises. Has Reid even had many backs that were top backs in FF? 
All due respect, I read this situation dramatically differently. 

There are a lot of narratives about Ronald Jones.

Pass protection, fumbling, and not being a capable receiver are 3 of the most exaggerated ones.

He went 250 touches in college without a fumble (one of 2 players to do so during his tenure) and has only fumbled 5x over 3 years in the NFL. Gibson fumbled 5x last year alone. JT fumbled 4x in 2021. We just don’t obsess over it because their coaches weren’t Arians, who makes a federal case out of it for a player he clearly doesn’t like.

In 2020, Jones was a 13-game starter. I posted the numbers above. He was absolutely a low-end RB1 value during that span. Somehow Brady never go shellacked because of Jones during that span of games.  All QBs get hit though, and sometimes it’s on the RB. But like the fumbles & his receiving being detrimental, it’s a little overblown. No, he’s not great at it. Yes, he can pass protect. 

Maybe a change of scenery & better coaching on a team that’s actually committed to him will help him with his  pass pro technique. Or maybe he simply won’t be used as much on passing downs.

FWIW, CEH isn’t that great in pass protection either from what I’ve seen. 

It’s possible that KC brought in Jones more to run between the tackles, which is something he excels at. He’s a decisive runner with good burst, & good vision, two things CEH isn’t. He also has the power to punch it into the end zone from short yardage, something CEH has proved to be woefully ineffective at as well.

And he’s significantly faster than CEH, so if he does get a hole or break a 1st tackle, he could take it to the house, which is something CEH simply can’t do.

If we’re going to compare CEH & Jones, let’s stick to what they’ve shown on the field, not what the respective narratives about them have become.

People say a lot of things about RoJo that simply aren’t true, like the comment about his “consistency” above. His 5.1 YPC in 2020 sure looked consistent to me, though I understand for FF purposes, “consistency” might mean something else. And when a dude’s getting benched at random, it’s hard to be a consistent FF contributor. As a dude who’s held RoJo since his rookie year, I’m all too familiar with that frustration. That doesn’t mean RoJo is inconsistent on the field though. A 4.5 ypc career seems to prove that. 

2020 wasn’t very long ago. 1 season, really. And it’s hard not to watch his highlights from 2020 and not think he’s a real threat to CEH. 

Signed

-apparently the new president of the RoJo fan club, defender of his honor. (I won’t go up on stage & slap anyone though) 

lol

 
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The Bucs and Brady disagree with a whole lot of that. Let’s not forget that little piece of information, it’s an important one to remember as we create narratives in the shark pool.
I’m trying to buck the narratives not create one.

Saying “the Bucs and Brady disagree with a whole lot of that” is a narrative. First, it ironic, second, it’s not “the Bucs”, it’s Arians. And he’s never actually said anything to that effect - he’s just treated a RB like crap until he needed him, and then that same RB played great football, which many narrative seekers on this forum are all too quick to dismiss or memory-hole. And then he treated him like crap again.
 

And I don’t recall Brady saying anything to that effect either. Care to share some links? Or are you just content in creating more narratives? 

Let’s look at the play on the field instead. That’s a much more effective way to evaluate player potential.

And in that light RoJo pretty well blows CEH away.  That’s not a narrative, that’s a fact. 

 
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