Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
You make me sound like a 1980s wrestling heel, lol.
"MY WRISTWATCH COSTS MORE THAN YOUR HOUSE. WOO!"
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RB Royce Freeman, LAR (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Snorkelson
- Start date
"MY WRISTWATCH COSTS MORE THAN YOUR HOUSE. WOO!"
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Dude, we are 2 weeks into the season, not one of us can say we were right about anything yet.Stuart Ullman said:
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
As someone who watched every snap of Blount and Freeman at Oregon I can tell you they are not as similar as you think. Freeman has a burst Blount does not have and can catch much better.Stuart Ullman said:Listen man, this is personal. I was treated like a non-human in this thread. And you know what? The chickens have come to roost.
Even if Freeman got more carries, his 3.5 YPC doesn't inspire much confidence for a bigger fantasy day. He's Legarette Blount lite.
I wish the guy would have accepted my bet. I love taking money from egotistical people. In 2016, posters in this board made a bet with me that Donald Trump wouldn't be elected.
He was almost as smug as the guys in this thread were.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
Anywho, I've derailed this topic enough. Back to legitimate sports talk.
Freeman is the undisputed goal line back and there is value in that. He will have weeks that he punches it in 1-2 times. The guy is a freight train.
He'll also pop off a 100 yard game or so. Maybe later in the year when defenses are missing key starters / not trying very hard anymore.
He performed in college, so as the talent level drops off - gets hurt later in the year his numbers should improve.
Plus, we've seen this same thing with Andre Ellington, Steve Slaton, Jahvid Best, David Wilson, etc. The runningback position is not friendly to backs Lindsay's size. It's a matter of when, not if he gets his Bell rung.
Even then, he's going to have to do better than the 3.5 YPC he averaged today. Of course, when Lindsay goes down Booker will grab those carries (especially on passing downs).
But he's a fine RB3 / FLEX guy at the moment. You didn't draft him to be that but it's fantasy. You adjust on the fly or you don't win money at the end of the year.
Freeman is the undisputed goal line back and there is value in that. He will have weeks that he punches it in 1-2 times. The guy is a freight train.
He'll also pop off a 100 yard game or so. Maybe later in the year when defenses are missing key starters / not trying very hard anymore.
He performed in college, so as the talent level drops off - gets hurt later in the year his numbers should improve.
Plus, we've seen this same thing with Andre Ellington, Steve Slaton, Jahvid Best, David Wilson, etc. The runningback position is not friendly to backs Lindsay's size. It's a matter of when, not if he gets his Bell rung.
Even then, he's going to have to do better than the 3.5 YPC he averaged today. Of course, when Lindsay goes down Booker will grab those carries (especially on passing downs).
But he's a fine RB3 / FLEX guy at the moment. You didn't draft him to be that but it's fantasy. You adjust on the fly or you don't win money at the end of the year.
Hilts
Footballguy
Some posters like to walk right up to the line and deliberately antagonize others until they rightfully smack back, then the person who has been busy pushing buttons and making it personal instead of discussing the facts at hand will report others and get them suspended.
Y'all do as you please, but I'd strongly recommend you avoid biting or even adding to your ignore list if you're not able to ignore the personal attacks and trolling.
Y'all do as you please, but I'd strongly recommend you avoid biting or even adding to your ignore list if you're not able to ignore the personal attacks and trolling.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Stuart Ullman said:
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
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I know right. He seriously thinks that being the person to start player threads is an accomplishment. Actually makes me feel bad for him. Between feeling the need to gloat when he was as wrong as everyone else about Lindsey's usage/success and keeping track of which player threads he started, I have to wonder what his personal life must have going on.
So pat yourself on the back, Stuey. You're a winner.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
It's called schtick, pal. However, that's the burden of being an early adopter, lol.I know right. He seriously thinks that being the person to start player threads is an accomplishment. Actually makes me feel bad for him. Between feeling the need to gloat when he was as wrong as everyone else about Lindsey's usage/success and keeping track of which player threads he started, I have to wonder what his personal life must have going on.
So pat yourself on the back, Stuey. You're a winner.
The late majority just don't understand until it's right in their face. I personally LOVE when people make threads about players I don't know much about.
Apparently you don't enjoy that and think it's funny. But like I said, that's my burden of being an early adopter. Always going against the grain and never being given credit.
I understand that sometimes brilliance is misunderstood. The late majority chastise those who had foresight all along. It's okay, I've already got my eyes looking forward to the next big thing.
Kaelan Ballage, pal.
I understand shtick. I also understand when to use it. You are taunting people because the guy they thought would be the lead back is the #2 guy and the short yardage guy. When the guy you thought would be the lead back is the #3 guy with no role whatsoever. Can you see now why everyone is laughing at you?
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
That's not what happened, at all. This is the Royce Freeman thread.
The point of this thread is to discuss Royce Freeman. I didn't think Freeman would get the carries and was a 3 yard and a cloud of dust runner.
It's only people who are embarrassed to have been wrong about Freeman that are now deflecting the attention to Devontae Booker to conveniently ignore how right I was.
Anyone who is laughing at me is intellectually dishonest or will never "get it". Some of us are more gifted than others.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
@JuniorNB
Like I've said about 20 times now. I'd much rather be WRONG about Booker in the 11th round than WRONG about Freeman in the 4th round.
I guess apparently I'm stupid and should be laughed at for being smart enough to avoid Freeman and draft someone in the 4th who is actually featured in their offense. If that's funny to you, then by all means I'm a big idiot!
I also picked up Lindsay Week 1. I got Denver's lead back for free when someone else in my league wasted an early pick on Freeman. How much of a big dummy am I?
LOL
Like I've said about 20 times now. I'd much rather be WRONG about Booker in the 11th round than WRONG about Freeman in the 4th round.
I guess apparently I'm stupid and should be laughed at for being smart enough to avoid Freeman and draft someone in the 4th who is actually featured in their offense. If that's funny to you, then by all means I'm a big idiot!
I also picked up Lindsay Week 1. I got Denver's lead back for free when someone else in my league wasted an early pick on Freeman. How much of a big dummy am I?
LOL
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Hilts
Footballguy
Looking at your history of work under your Eminence alias, I don't think anyone can answer this question without being banned.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
That's not even remotely true. You acted like a thin skinned baby throughout this thread. You quoted a laundry list of so-called insults to you at one point which only had one insult (from me after you whined) and the rest were people simply disagreeing with your opinions. You acted like a cry baby then and have kept that up here when gloating.Stuart Ullman said:Listen man, this is personal. I was treated like a non-human in this thread. And you know what? The chickens have come to roost.
Even if Freeman got more carries, his 3.5 YPC doesn't inspire much confidence for a bigger fantasy day. He's Legarette Blount lite.
I wish the guy would have accepted my bet. I love taking money from egotistical people. In 2016, posters in this board made a bet with me that Donald Trump wouldn't be elected.
He was almost as smug as the guys in this thread were.
Should we take your same argument tactic and take out the one long run for Lindsay? That's your favorite technique. I won't do that because I'm a mature adult.
You continue to show over and over in this thread what kind of a person you are and it's not pretty. I know this is just an online forum, but I honestly believe you need some help in real life. You should talk to a professional. You of course will take that as an insult, but it is not. You need to talk to someone.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
What the hell is the difference? I thought Booker would be starter, everyone else thought Freeman would be starter. Some guy named Lindsay comes out of nowhere and is the starter. Nobody was right, so the guy who ends up walking away with the least collateral damage is the winner, imo.
The guy was being drafted in the 3rd Round right before the season started and I told everyone he was being overhyped as a 3 yards and a cloud of dust type runner. Sorry I didn't get Phillip Lindsay right, nobody got that right. I got every other thing right though, except instead of Booker it's Lindsay.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
Bro. I've had this conversation with you like 10 times. I never took out any of Freeman's runs. I merely OBSERVED that under center Freeman had a worse YPC than Booker. You're so dishonest, it's disgusting. There's nothing WRONG with segregating what a runningback does running from under center from what they do running out of shotgun. It gives you EVEN BETTER STATISTICS when you run filters on things.
You're just too busy trying to argue with me, that you act like I'm an idiot who would remove runs. That's not how statistics work. That's called cherrypicking. Hell, if you would have listened to me you maybe could have avoided this disaster. Because as you can tell from today's game, FREEMAN IS STRUGGLING TO RUN FROM UNDER CENTER and that's going to be a problem if that continues.
But again, you don't listen. You think I'm some big boogeyman. I tried pointing out to you WEEKS AGO that his production under center was lacking and that his YPC was inflated by his LONG CARRY out of the shotgun. That's valuable information. But to you? It was just a talking point to try and argue with me.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
get a room you two and you can measure in person
Buffaloes
Footballguy
I think most people come here for solid and informed ff advice not to be witness to an account going page after page propping up a third string rb and then claiming victory when said third stringer is still a third stringer with little to no ff value two weeks in.
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Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
Bro. This thread is about Royce Freeman. I came in this thread warning people not to draft Royce Freeman. If I was trying to prop up Devontae Booker, I would go in the Devontae Booker thread. What don't you get?
Are you jealous that I'm the only guy with guts to go against the grain? It's honestly disgusting. Look back at my posts and you will see the following themes from me:
1.) I don't think Royce Freeman will be starter. He wasn't starter this week.
2.) I think he is being overdrafted because people have rookie fever. So far he hasn't produced to his ADP.
3.) I think he is talented but won't produce because he'll be in a RBBC. He's in a RBBC.
4.) I think Royce Freeman is a Legarette Blount 3 yards a cloud of dust type runner. He averaged 3.5 YPC tonight.
But for whatever reason. Nobody in this thread can shake the fact that I thought Devontae Booker was going to be starter. Why did I think that? Because that's what the Broncos coaches said was going to happen. I literally never propped up Devontae Booker other than to say that as the veteran, he would see the first shot at carries. But for whatever sick and twisted reason, the people in this thread can't wrap their heads around any of this.
But because I THOUGHT Devontae Booker would be starter, because that's what the Broncos Head Coaches were saying in preseason all the way up until Week 1. Somehow, someway everything else I said has no validity. It's really sickening and the intellectual dishonesty being displayed here is a joke. You can't even find a single quote of me saying that I think Devontae Booker is more talented. No. You're just being unreasonable people, who don't want to give me props for nailing the fact that Royce Freeman was OVERHYPED and WOULD NOT be meet value at his ADP.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
Honestly, I'm embarrassed for a lot of you. You don't seem to understand that this is about Royce Freeman and whether or not Royce Freeman would produce or not. If I had some type of man crush on Devontae Booker, I would go pump him up in his thread. You don't seem to understand that despite me being wrong about Devontae Booker, you were all wrong about Royce Freeman.
I thought Booker would split carries with Freeman. I'm still surprised that he isn't. Turns out a different player is sharing those carries. Same difference. It's the a RBBC just like I predicted and a back like Freeman who doesn't catch passes and is somewhat of a plodder isn't going to put up big fantasy points in a RBBC. You all thought that Royce Freeman would be the starter and as of this week, he's not. So it's really a sickness that you're so concerned about me being wrong about Devontae Booker in a Royce Freeman thread, that you're literally ignoring the fact that I 100% called the fact that Royce Freeman would not have a productive year.
I mean, that's the point of this thread, right? To talk about Royce Freeman. I mean, ####, when was the last time I even mentioned Devontae Booker after Royce Freeman was named starter? Not once. But because I thought he was going to get the veteran nod, you're just going to ignore every other argument I've had against Royce Freeman? You were all wrong about Royce Freeman being the starter and you don't see me acting all crazy about that. Jesus Christ.
I thought Booker would split carries with Freeman. I'm still surprised that he isn't. Turns out a different player is sharing those carries. Same difference. It's the a RBBC just like I predicted and a back like Freeman who doesn't catch passes and is somewhat of a plodder isn't going to put up big fantasy points in a RBBC. You all thought that Royce Freeman would be the starter and as of this week, he's not. So it's really a sickness that you're so concerned about me being wrong about Devontae Booker in a Royce Freeman thread, that you're literally ignoring the fact that I 100% called the fact that Royce Freeman would not have a productive year.
I mean, that's the point of this thread, right? To talk about Royce Freeman. I mean, ####, when was the last time I even mentioned Devontae Booker after Royce Freeman was named starter? Not once. But because I thought he was going to get the veteran nod, you're just going to ignore every other argument I've had against Royce Freeman? You were all wrong about Royce Freeman being the starter and you don't see me acting all crazy about that. Jesus Christ.
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Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
QUOTE ME WHERE I ONCE TOUTED DEVONTAE BOOKER. NOW OR DON'T QUOTE ME AGAIN. QUOTE ME WHERE ONCE IN THIS THREAD I TOUTED BOOKER. YOU'RE MAKING THINGS UP TO BE AN INTERNET TOUGH GUY. YOU KNOW DAMN WELL MY STANCE ON THIS.
THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT ROYCE FREEMAN BEING A REACH.
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Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
We are only two weeks in the season, time to chill on this and watch it unfold. Hardly anything is proven at this point.
Deamon
Footballguy
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
This was literally my first post in this thread. At the time Booker was the #1 running back on the depth chart. Let's break this down about what I got right and what I got wrong:
What I got right:
"I think this RB class is overhyped."
"Not everyone of these guys is going to be a stud year 1."
"Waiting for him to make a play running from under center that doesn't result in 3 yards and a cloud of dust."
What I got wrong:
"I think Booker sits in front of him as starter all season"
So again, three things that I absolutely nailed on the head and one thing I got wrong. But for some reason, people won't get over the fact that I thought Booker would be starter because he was #1 on the depth chart at the time.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
This is my 3rd or 4th post in this thread. In no way have I ever said I was a believer in Devontae Booker's talent over Royce Freeman. I literally say the words,
"Its not that I THINK Booker deserves the spot, I'm just reading the tea leaves."
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
Look how many different things I got right here. Freeman struggling under center. Freeman being overdrafted. Freeman needing to show he can run against NFL calibre talent. But all anyone wants to focus on is that I thought Booker would be the starter.
Isn't it funny how people just want to smear other people and ignore when they are correct or insightful about something?
Deamon
Footballguy
Dude you really need to calm down. Trust me this is all making you look SO much worse.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
I fully understand. But you get my point, right? Unless you're super specific with these internet tough guys who just want frustrate you and hurt your feelings, they're going to bend your words around and make it seem like you were saying something completely different than you were to begin with.
You think I want to waste my time posting this crap? I came into this thread to try to get people NOT to overpay on Royce Freeman and I'm rewarded with all this nonsense.
Deamon
Footballguy
I don't actually get your point to be honest. I still don't think it was a huge reach to take Freeman in the 3rd/4th. That was where his adp was and where he was valued, and he really looked to be the best back on the team at that point. I don't like hindsight posters. If Freeman was blowing up right now (or does blow up during the rest of the season), you probably would be pretty quiet around here too. Sometimes players work out in fantasy, sometimes they don't. I would never fault someone for taking David Johnson top 5 by saying "you should have seen this coming" after the fact.
The only thing that people who understood the situation knew, or who followed the situation closely could conclude, was that Freeman was going to be the guy this year. I thought round 3 was a little pricey personally, and I did target him late 4th but fortunately he was gone by the time I picked late 4th in my leagues. It just looks like you're trying to cover up being so wrong about Booker, by gloating about Freeman not being the guy in Denver. No one saw Lindsay coming like this. No one.
My only comparison would be betting on a sprint between two guys. You saying sprinter A would win, everyone else saying sprinter B would win. Sprinter B leading the race and then Sprinter C coming from behind and beating both out. You can't then say "See, I told you B wouldn't win". If Lindsay disappears, gets hurt, or hypothetically wasn't on their roster, then yes, it seems like everyone in this thread would be right and he would be worth the risk in the 3rd/4th round.
If you get that upset by people mocking you for your call on this, you're REALLY asking for a huge tar and feathering if Freeman ends up taking the job. Why put yourself in that potential situation if it bothers/hurts you so much? This isn't going to end well for you, just be happy you don't own Freeman and that you own Lindsay, and be satisfied with that. This obsession over being right, post after post of gloating, is just asking for more conflict, and makes you look really really bad. Just move on from it dude. There's going to be big freeman games this year and people are likely going to quote your posts in here and bring them back up... For your sake, I hope you can ignore those posts.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
Here's my problem. I never really cared that much about Devontae Booker. 90% of my posts in this thread were questioning whether or not Freeman would be able to produce at the NFL level. In my opinion, those same questions still exist. His ability to run under center is still a concern of mine. If he was running more effectively from under center, I don't think Lindsay would be seeing the touches that he is.
If I came in here arguing that I thought Booker was the better talent, that would be one thing. I just thought that in conjunction to being in a RBBC that Royce Freeman also had several red flags in his game. I believe these same red flags are the reason that Lindsay is seeing all these carries. If it wasn't Lindsay getting those carries, I am certain it would be Booker. Freeman's 3.5 YPC today isn't going to cut it.
More importantly, there were a few posters in this thread that were VERY NASTY towards me. I could really care less about Royce Freeman but when these people were so mean to me and I feel I ended up being right about Royce Freeman not producing, it's irritating that their response is, "we don't care that you knew Royce Freeman would struggle, because you thought Devontae Booker would be starter". It's like what's the point if even when I'm right about something, it's not going to be acknowledged? They insulted me and even after my concerns proved to be right, they zero in on the one thing I got wrong and ignore the rest.
At that point we're not even operating on the basis of logic and respect. Also, my dog is dying so I'm probably a little emotional about that too.
:(
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Deamon
Footballguy
That sucks about your dog, that's stressful. Just saying that if you're upset about that, or this, and rattled by guys calling you out, then you shouldn't poke them. It's only going to make things much worse. Be happy you avoided Freeman, but gloating about starting threads and about being right, is just going to bring 10X the nasty posts back your way. Just be prepared for them, they're likely coming as soon as Freeman has a good game... and I have a feeling he's going to have a few still.
Anyways enough of this... we'll see how Freeman does next week. For your sake (and the sake of my fantasy team) I hope Lindsay keeps tearing it up. Kid looks like he's for real and hopefully will hold up.
Super King
Footballguy
I thought this was the Rolls Royce thread.
Stop the back and forth shots against each other here and keep the discussion 100% on the players.
thecardiackid
Footballguy
Stu's gonna aneurysm.
Enjoy the rbbc.
Sincerely,
Lindsay owner watching the chaos here.
Enjoy the rbbc.
Sincerely,
Lindsay owner watching the chaos here.
rockaction
Footballguy
I'm not stunned, but my jaw still drops over this thread. Hadn't entered, still haven't read but a bit, and this is worse than Soulfly and Bazinga! in the Gordon thread, because those two actually kind of get what they're doing and their personal attacks attack personas and not the person.
Come join the fun, fellas. Watch master shtick at work. Stuart/Em/I forget who else, take notes.
Come join the fun, fellas. Watch master shtick at work. Stuart/Em/I forget who else, take notes.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Wow, I waded into this thread to balance my thinking based on what's going on in the Lindsay thread and saw a giant back and forth mess that made me not bother to look at what was said on the previous page, as I simply expect more back and forth.
Instead I will focus on the one thing that did catch my eye, based on actual player commentary (as opposed to the he said/she said crud).
It is super interesting that despite so many accolades about Lindsay in camp, Royce seemed to be developing -- in camp and in the preseason -- to be the main guy, looking the part of a 3-down back and even boosting his value (ADP) going into the last week or two prior to season start.
If you are a Lindsay owner that drafted him based on the preseason flashes, or more likely snagged him after the first week, congrats, as at the moment it looks like this is a time share and Denver (gauging by the last two weeks) are very comfortable with the 1-2 punch.
For Freeman owners, where Freeman was looking like a solid RB2 with RB1 upside, he is now solidly in flex territory, but given what he showed before the games were real, he could still emerge given his preseason indicators. As a guy with natural in-between-tackle proclivity and power and decent vision, he could still be an asset on downs that require the north/south approach. While he lacks the explosiveness and elusiveness Lindsay is putting on display, I've seen Ds adjust with more and more tape on a guy like Lindsay.
So while it is true that Freeman did not pan out at the expected performance level, he may still be a fantasy contributor yet as both backs settle into their roles.
thecardiackid
Footballguy
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I didn't see the game, only the box score. Did Lindsay get injured?
Cold Dead Hands
Footballguy
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Ahhhh, that makes sense. I didn't see any gloating and checked the box score and couldn't figure out what was going on.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
He threw some punches in a pile going for a fumble, which I always thought was fair game. The pile is anarchy, don't go in unless you're prepared.
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TheFanatic
Footballguy
Pwingles
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
It may not have been a haymaker, but he threw more than 1 punch, after spearing the guy in the back.
