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RB Saquon Barkley, PHI (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Faust
MVP
Devil_Dog
Footballguy
jtd13
Footballguy
Gives me a bit of pause for taking him early in redraft, but "ease back in" is music to my ears in dynasty.
Yenrub
Footballguy
The projected OL is young and inexperienced
LT – Andrew Thomas – 2nd year
LG – Shane Lemieux – 2nd year
C – Nick Gates – 4th but just his 2nd year at C
RG – Will Hernandez – 3rd year – 1st year at RG, previously LG
RT – Matt Peart – 2nd year
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
They’ve invested a fair amount of capital in their line: 1st rnd (4th overall), 5th rnd, UDFA, 2nd rnd, 3rd rnd. BTW Hernandez is headed into his 4th year, last year on his rookie contract. Nate Solder hasn’t played RT since his rookie year with the Pats but he’ll be competing with Peart (the depth chart lists Kenny Wiggins but he’s a mouth breather.) He restructured after opting out and he just turned 33. Gave up 56 pressures and 11 sacks in 2019 so probably the end of the line for him.
Thomas gave up 57 pressures and 10 sacks as a rookie, both were league highs (lows.) Lemieux had a PFF grade on the low 30s which has to be one of the worst of any OL in the league. Hernandez lost his starting LG spot to him when he tested positive in October and never got it back, but he was a solid guy his first two years. The other guys are serviceable but overall the line was ranked 31st by PFF’s grading system and another bottom 8 season seems likely.
Personally I’m not buying the “we’ll be content to let Booker and Ryquell and CC shoulder the load early” narrative. Oh yeah, let’s roll out these trash bags and see if something good happens. Off season coach speak, mans gonna be seeing 80-85% of the snaps, same as day one.
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Yenrub
Footballguy
My bad on Hernandez you are correct this is his 4th year.
After the draft Gettleman was asked by the beat reporters why he didn’t address the OL in the draft and his response was something along the lines of…we (the Giants) obviously feel better about the young guys than the fans and media.
Looking on the bright side, the Giants did have some turmoil with the OL coaching last season. Marc Columbo was fired in the middle of the season. Andrew Thomas seemed to play better after Columbo left. They hired Rob Sale who is allegedly a good OL coach from the college ranks. They also hired NFL vet OL coach Pat Flaherty as a consultant.
Thomas was playing hurt all last season and had to have surgery after the season.
Judge was a bit unconventional last season rotating offensive linemen which gave Lemieux and Peart (especially Peart) some reps they might not have gotten without the rotating. Peart did reasonably well when he played last season
They also added guard Zach Fulton in free agency from the Texans, who is nothing special but is long time vet who MAY help the young guards and provide experience as a backup
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Ah the giants o-line, will it never stop being a joke?
No, no it won't.
As for Barkley himself, how many years does he, as a running back, need to end up on ir before we fade him out of the top ten rbs due to him being injury prone? How terrible do the giants need to be as a team before we agree that he'll have too many team induced 20 carry 25 yard days to fade him out of the top ten? How crap does Danny penny have to be...
You can throw as many wr on the roster as you want, if teams don't have to respect the play calling, line, or quarterback then outside of Barkley making big plays he's not worth a top pick.
No, no it won't.
As for Barkley himself, how many years does he, as a running back, need to end up on ir before we fade him out of the top ten rbs due to him being injury prone? How terrible do the giants need to be as a team before we agree that he'll have too many team induced 20 carry 25 yard days to fade him out of the top ten? How crap does Danny penny have to be...
You can throw as many wr on the roster as you want, if teams don't have to respect the play calling, line, or quarterback then outside of Barkley making big plays he's not worth a top pick.
jtd13
Footballguy
The Frankman
Footballguy
I actually hope wgoldsph's sentiment prevails all summer. I'm going to be in a 14-16 teamer and if enough people think like that and I have a pick in the 13-15 range and I can get Barkley in the late 1st/early 2nd round, thank you very much.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Using "injury prone" to describe a football player may be one of the most misguided labels in this hobby.
jtd13
Footballguy
Yep. It's football. They are all "injury prone" on account of them being finely tuned large fast humans subjecting themselves to frequent collisions with other large fast humans.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
jtd13
Footballguy
Not my intent to make you feel foolish! He did have a big span of being injured and then playing ineffectively through injury year 2, so I get why it feels that way. I just think it's a risk that comes with the territory when you get a lot of touches.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
You're all good, I just got swept up in my giants hate (and underlying Jason Garrett hate) and the fact that I spent a lot of my auction budget on Barkley last year.
Riffraff
Footballguy
Wish all these updates from faux medical reporters would mention how he is recovering from all 3 injuries, not just an ACL.
Two words: Unhappy Triad
Yes, there is a name when you tear all 3 - the ACL, the MCL, and the Meniscus.
-----
Shoudn't just report about the ACL though it takes the longest. The others need to be rehabilitated too.
Any PTs in the house to give a better guestimate on damage, atrophy, and recovery?
Two words: Unhappy Triad
Yes, there is a name when you tear all 3 - the ACL, the MCL, and the Meniscus.
-----
Shoudn't just report about the ACL though it takes the longest. The others need to be rehabilitated too.
Any PTs in the house to give a better guestimate on damage, atrophy, and recovery?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Not a medical professional but just want to point out it was a partially torn MCL and strained meniscus. Two who came back from the terrible triad that immediately come to mind are Gronk and ADP.Riffraff said:
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Meh. He’s probably sick of being asked the question.
if he’s doing agility drills, I’m drafting him if I have a chance.
I hear you and that's entirely possible but there have been other stories about how cautious the Giants will be with him (as they should be). If his snaps are limited to start the season, it's likely good for his longevity but not ideal for owners who are investing a top 4 or 5 pick in him in redraft leagues. Just something to monitor.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Oh I’ve been following along.
the Giants will say all the right things. The player’s responses to annoying questions will be framed in the most inflammatory way by sites that want your clicks.
I’ll watch video & see how he’s looked in the preseason.
players have come back from worse in shorter time-frames, and seeing him making cuts is worth 1000 articles and words of caution.
As we get closer to the season I expect these reports to get more optimistic.
I’m not sure he goes top 4 in PPR, but it’s possible. 5-6 is more likely & most folks drafting there are going for upside - his risk is baked into the cost. Without the risk he’s top 2, maybe even 1st.
I suspect in many leagues he’ll fall to 7-12, as some folks are risk averse, were burned by him last year, or simply see him as “damaged goods”. If I’m anywhere past 6 & he comes to me, I’m likely taking the injury discount.
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Dacomish
Footballguy
Adrian Peterson would like a word about your analysis as he blew out both his ACL and MCL in Week 16 and then came back to rush for over 2000K yards the next season so anything is possible with the injury:
https://www.espn.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/48583/adrian-peterson-best-acl-recovery-ever
Full disclosure - I have Barkley in Dynasty and fully expect him to be slow out of the blocks and have other options to at least smooth the wait.
habsfan
Footballguy
In redraft I am looking to avoid. I think recovery time and effectiveness from injuries like this consist of a range of possibilities. ADP is at one end of the spectrum, basically a unicorn (which your article more or less asserts). I guess anything is possible but not everything is probable. Will Barkley be a unicorn too? Maybe...
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FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Does anyone remember what the narrative was like surrounding ADP in July following his injury? Was there still talk of him missing week 1 at this point in the offseason or were the reports already saying he had made a miraculous recovery and looked like he was at full speed?
TZMarkie
Footballguy
The thought train as the season approached, was that most fantasy experts were saying "caution drafting AP". The majority of the speculation was that he "may miss a couple weeks, or he may possibly be eased in".FreeBaGeL said:
Most "smarts" in our leagues avoided him altogether that year.
TZM
finfansteve
Footballguy
I’m sort of glad I traded this guy about a month ago. Let’s see if I’m still satisfied come December
