RB Travis Etienne, JAX (1 Viewer)

[Catbird]

While Mack apparently looked less sudden than before his achiles repair (which may have had as much to do with lining up next to Jonathon Taylor as anything empirical) Cam Akers clearly had his burst back 7 months after Achilles surgery and almost no one is questioning his full or very nearly full recovery. All Achilles injuries and surgeries are not identical, so Robinson's could take some time longer (or shorter) to match Akers pretty full recovery,. 

Robinson was injured at Christmas, so opening day will be 8 1/2 months after injury. As Rock admits, science is ever improving.

Robinson was not a slug before the injury,  He was 'slow' enough to be averaging 86 yards a game from scrimmage in his frosh and soph years on the worst team in football. I count 16 RBs who matched or bettered that per game production that played a fairly full season (14+ games) in 2021. 

Etienne, recovery time and whether recovery will be complete are valid issues, but JR was a plenty explosive RB with talented starter skills even on the offensive disaster that was Jax. I think he was worth 2 decent 1sts when hurt, and a mid-first now on his proven starting RB talent and production. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

So maybe it doesn't affect him as much then?

Being even slower wouldn’t affect him?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

While Mack apparently looked less sudden than before his achiles repair (which may have had as much to do with lining up next to Jonathon Taylor as anything empirical) Cam Akers clearly had his burst back 7 months after Achilles surgery and almost no one is questioning his full or very nearly full recovery. All Achilles injuries and surgeries are not identical, so Robinson's could take some time longer (or shorter) to match Akers pretty full recovery,. 

Robinson was injured at Christmas, so opening day will be 8 1/2 months after injury. As Rock admits, science is ever improving.

Robinson was not a slug before the injury,  He was 'slow' enough to be averaging 86 yards a game from scrimmage in his frosh and soph years on the worst team in football. I count 16 RBs who matched or bettered that per game production that played a fairly full season (14+ games) in 2021. 

Etienne, recovery time and whether recovery will be complete are valid issues, but JR was a plenty explosive RB with talented starter skills even on the offensive disaster that was Jax. I think he was worth 2 decent 1sts when hurt, and a mid-first now on his proven starting RB talent and production. 

While it was a “miracle” he was back on the field for the playoffs, Cam Akers did not look good.

 

[Boston]

While it was a “miracle” he was back on the field for the playoffs, Cam Akers did not look good.

Agreed...doesn't mean he won't look better with all the time off after the season, but he did not look like the same player during the playoffs.

 

[zamboni]

I think with Pederson in the fold now, all bets are off regarding how Robinson performed or was used in the past. The one thing in his favor is that Pederson has tended to prefer a committee than a workhorse, but just because that's what he did in Philly doesn't mean he'll do it in Jacksonville.

The truth is, we have no idea about the usage or recovery of the two guys, but if I'm putting my chips on one, I'm going with the draft capital and familiarity (with Trevor) that Etienne has. 

 

[Boston]

I think with Pederson in the fold now, all bets are off regarding how Robinson performed or was used in the past. The one thing in his favor is that Pederson has tended to prefer a committee than a workhorse, but just because that's what he did in Philly doesn't mean he'll do it in Jacksonville.

The truth is, we have no idea about the usage or recovery of the two guys, but if I'm putting my chips on one, I'm going with the draft capital and familiarity (with Trevor) that Etienne has. 

No clue how they will be used but if they are both healthy but I think these two would make the perfect RBBC as they would really complement each other...that would be a real high-end backfield and take some pressure off of Lawrence as they continue developing him.

 

[zamboni]

No clue how they will be used but if they are both healthy but I think these two would make the perfect RBBC as they would really complement each other...that would be a real high-end backfield and take some pressure off of Lawrence as they continue developing him.

Agreed. There is a non-zero chance though that Robinson starts the season on the PUP, and Etienne may have a chance to really seize hold of the backfield.

 

[Boston]

Agreed. There is a non-zero chance though that Robinson starts the season on the PUP, and Etienne may have a chance to really seize hold of the backfield.

Yup…will be interesting to see just how much he gets used…I have felt he could turn into a Kamara type of player where there may be another RB involved but he is the biggest threat.

 

[Bri]

There’s no market for Robinson. He tore his Achilles, he’s not a great talent, there’s not a ton of teams in major need for a RB, there’s a lot of RBs in this draft and this is the last year of his contract. 
 

And why would the Jags trade ETN? Who is going to play RB for them? Aren’t they trying to help Lawrence develop? Isn’t ETN Lawrence’s security blanket and friend? 

Oh you're one of those

That's how I feel when people stick to Robinson isn't very good. It reminds me of Priest and I can't understand why people cling to that UDFA label. Does he have to run for 2000 in a season to lose it?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I think with Pederson in the fold now, all bets are off regarding how Robinson performed or was used in the past. The one thing in his favor is that Pederson has tended to prefer a committee than a workhorse, but just because that's what he did in Philly doesn't mean he'll do it in Jacksonville.

The truth is, we have no idea about the usage or recovery of the two guys, but if I'm putting my chips on one, I'm going with the draft capital and familiarity (with Trevor) that Etienne has. 

I don’t have a dog in the fight but that makes sense to me. I wouldn’t be shocked if they draft another RB as well - albeit I wouldn’t Expect a high pick to be used.

 

[Ilov80s]

Oh you're one of those

That's how I feel when people stick to Robinson isn't very good. It reminds me of Priest and I can't understand why people cling to that UDFA label. Does he have to run for 2000 in a season to lose it?

Why would a team trade for a RB with a torn Achilles on the  last year of his deal? Even if he’s pretty good, it doesn’t make sense.

 

[Bri]

Would he fetch a 3rd?  Would the Jags accept anything less?

I just don't know because of injury and the RB market so weak. 

It's kind of like tackles for the draft. Supposedly anyone in the first (and maybe one in the second) is great and the rest are about UDFAs.

 

[Ilov80s]

I shouldn’t have said Robinson isn’t good. He is a good productive player. I should have said he isn’t special. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Why would a team trade for a RB with a torn Achilles on the  last year of his deal? Even if he’s pretty good, it doesn’t make sense.

Doesn’t seem like a controversial statement. Seems pretty logical given negative upon negatives (that you listed). Why give up a pick you could just use on a RB that’s healthy, on a four year rookie contract and who could have more upside than Robinson?

 

[menobrown]

I think with Pederson in the fold now, all bets are off regarding how Robinson performed or was used in the past. The one thing in his favor is that Pederson has tended to prefer a committee than a workhorse, but just because that's what he did in Philly doesn't mean he'll do it in Jacksonville.

The truth is, we have no idea about the usage or recovery of the two guys, but if I'm putting my chips on one, I'm going with the draft capital and familiarity (with Trevor) that Etienne has. 

@CameronWolfe

Mar 28

#Jaguars HC Doug Pederson says he expects Travis Etienne ready to go early in offseason (OTAs/minicamp). He says James Robinson probably won’t be ready until training camp. He says Robinson can be 3-down RB & Etienne’s role he said “we’ll see” with a wide smile.

 

[menobrown]

While it was a “miracle” he was back on the field for the playoffs, Cam Akers did not look good.

I thought he looked good and most of all  healthy. Yes he had a low YPC but other things at play.

Rams coaches have access to gobs of game and practice GPS data. I don't think if Akers was not up to levels he previously was at he's have been on the field over Sony and Henderson to the degree he was.

 

[zamboni]

@CameronWolfe

Mar 28

#Jaguars HC Doug Pederson says he expects Travis Etienne ready to go early in offseason (OTAs/minicamp). He says James Robinson probably won’t be ready until training camp. He says Robinson can be 3-down RB & Etienne’s role he said “we’ll see” with a wide smile.

We all know how transparent Pederson has always been.

 

[menobrown]

I wouldn’t be shocked if they draft another RB as well - albeit I wouldn’t Expect a high pick to be used.

They have 4 #6's and 2 #7's and I'd be very very surprised if they don't draft one as well and probably with one of those picks. Here is part of an article I read last week on two RB's they brought in:

Jaguars are clearly looking for a specific type of a running back

The two running backs the Jaguars have brought in for visits thus far show that Jacksonville is looking for a specific type of running back in this year's draft. That kind of running back is one who is a Day 3 selection as opposed to a Day 2 candidate, while they are also all in on bringing in a bigger, power-based running back as opposed to a smaller, shiftier type. 

Michigan running back Hassan Haskins is 6-foot-2 (97th percentile) and 228 pounds (86th percentile) while LSU running back Tyrion Davis-Price is 6-foot-0 (72nd percentile) and 211 pounds (42nd percentile). Considering James Robinson is 5-foot-9 and 219 pounds and Travis Etienne is 5-foot-10 and 215-pounds, both Haskins and Price would give the Jaguars more height and overall larger frames. Each are downhill runners who are best at gashing defenses through the middle of the field as opposed to winning on the perimeter or through the air. 

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/draft/2022-nfl-draft-5-observations-jaguars-prospect-visits

 

[zamboni]

They have 4 #6's and 2 #7's and I'd be very very surprised if they don't draft one as well and probably with one of those picks. Here is part of an article I read last week on two RB's they brought in:

Jaguars are clearly looking for a specific type of a running back

The two running backs the Jaguars have brought in for visits thus far show that Jacksonville is looking for a specific type of running back in this year's draft. That kind of running back is one who is a Day 3 selection as opposed to a Day 2 candidate, while they are also all in on bringing in a bigger, power-based running back as opposed to a smaller, shiftier type. 

Michigan running back Hassan Haskins is 6-foot-2 (97th percentile) and 228 pounds (86th percentile) while LSU running back Tyrion Davis-Price is 6-foot-0 (72nd percentile) and 211 pounds (42nd percentile). Considering James Robinson is 5-foot-9 and 219 pounds and Travis Etienne is 5-foot-10 and 215-pounds, both Haskins and Price would give the Jaguars more height and overall larger frames. Each are downhill runners who are best at gashing defenses through the middle of the field as opposed to winning on the perimeter or through the air. 

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/draft/2022-nfl-draft-5-observations-jaguars-prospect-visits

219 and 215 pounders don't seem like smaller, shiftier types, but who knows what Pederson is thinking.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I thought he looked good and most of all  healthy. Yes he had a low YPC but other things at play.

Rams coaches have access to gobs of game and practice GPS data. I don't think if Akers was not up to levels he previously was at he's have been on the field over Sony and Henderson to the degree he was.

Well they eventually turned the game over to Henderson in the Super Bowk.

 

[menobrown]

Well they eventually turned the game over to Henderson in the Super Bowk.

I think Akers doubled him up in touches. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

While it was a “miracle” he was back on the field for the playoffs, Cam Akers did not look good.

I agree. he had a couple of runs where everyone on the game-thread was like “wow, he looks good for a dude who tore his Achilles not that long ago!” but he didn’t look like the Cam Akers everyone was going gaga over before the Achilles tear.

He could continue to improve with the off-season, or he may never recover the burst that made him such a hot commodity pre-injury. We’ll know more this season. There are a few potential outcomes here. 

All that said, if he’s healthy, he should get the larger share of the committee for a very good offense, and Henderson bruises like a Dickensian orphan, so…probably still a valuable player, even if only due to volume/situation. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Well they eventually turned the game over to Henderson in the Super Bowk.

I didn’t recall that. I know Hendo had that crucial long reception on the wheel route, but I thought Akers had more touches. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I think Akers doubled him up in touches. 

Ah, missed this post. This was my recollection as well. 

 

[zamboni]

Good thing we’re keeping it to Etienne here.

 

[zed2283]

I think I'd break it down this way: 

Slow for a pro guy blows out ACL. Does anyone think that adds to his speed and his game or does it push him closer to being just too slow?  Don't forget, even the best athletes can slip out of the pro range of speed. 

Guy with good burst but slow for a pro blows out Achilles' heel. Do you really think it adds to his game or does it more likely decrease his burst and push him closer to being not bursty enough and too slow? Same thing applies. 

Really, you have to use common sense and think that pro athletes have to achieve an athletic baseline and they can slip below that baseline for a myriad of reasons, injury being one of them. Especially if they were on the negative cusp of that line to begin with. 

I don't know. Just seems like a lot of wishcasting for Robinson to be as effective as he was. Will that be enough? Maybe. I'm not betting on it, though. 

Being even slower wouldn’t affect him?

I guess what I was getting at (and not wishcasting or apologizing, just contemplating) is that if speed and burst weren't a big part of his game to begin with then maybe he doesn't lose as much as someone else for whom those things are a big part of their game.  Or if he loses 10% of "slow" then that's not as much as 10% of "fast."

 

[rockaction]

and not wishcasting

Sorry, wrong word to use there. Too much of a negative connotation behind it. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Good thing we’re keeping it to Etienne here.

Sorry, I was late to the party. My post does relate in terms of injury recovery, but ETN’s injury actually scares me more than Akers. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I guess what I was getting at (and not wishcasting or apologizing, just contemplating) is that if speed and burst weren't a big part of his game to begin with then maybe he doesn't lose as much as someone else for whom those things are a big part of their game.  Or if he loses 10% of "slow" then that's not as much as 10% of "fast."

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think it’s a great point. Being slower hurts a running back whether he’s a fast guy who got 10% slower or a slow guy who got 10% slower.

One could argue that the fast guy could afford to lose 10%, while the slow guy can’t. 

 

[zed2283]

I drafted ETN last year and immediately offered the Robinson owner 2.2.  He didn't exactly scoff, but pointed out that Robinson was the best RB on his RB-needy team and couldn't do it, and that I'd have to come up with more.  I passed at the time, and now I'm trying to decide if I want to make another offer or not.  And, if so, what would it be.  I guess I'll just wait and see what they do in the draft.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I think Akers doubled him up in touches. 

I’m going by memory but I recall seeing Henderson a lot more in the second half.

I’m not saying Akers is done by any means but my observation was he couldn’t quite get through holes he used to - but admit your rationale as to the coaching staff seeing him every day is germane.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I drafted ETN last year and immediately offered the Robinson owner 2.2.  He didn't exactly scoff, but pointed out that Robinson was the best RB on his RB-needy team and couldn't do it, and that I'd have to come up with more.  I passed at the time, and now I'm trying to decide if I want to make another offer or not.  And, if so, what would it be.  I guess I'll just wait and see what they do in the draft.

I’ve seen Robinson go for mid-seconds twice this off-season. I don’t necessarily agree with that value but based on other comments in here it doesn’t seem off.

 

[menobrown]

Sorry, I was late to the party. My post does relate in terms of injury recovery, but ETN’s injury actually scares me more than Akers. 

I'm surprised to hear that.

My concern with ETN is close to zero on performance with slight concerns on re-aggravation.  I would not even put the odds at 5% that ETN is not the player he was before and by start of next season.

Robinson's injury is not only more severe IMO but also around 5 months later. I'd put his odds of not being the same player more in the 25% range and that's eventually, not the start of the season when I put the odds as being more likely then not he's not ready to be a contributor and  to has a better shot of starting the season on IR/PUP then being a contributing member of Jags or my fantasy teams.  I think he's a really good player that relative to this draft class he should have second round value but my concern on him returning and timeframe of his return right now blows away my concern for ETN.

 

[menobrown]

I’m not saying Akers is done by any means but my observation was he couldn’t quite get through holes he used to

Not to beat a dead horse but may not have been a hole to get through.

Henderson and Sony combined for 30 carries and 77 yards and while this reeks of playing with stats I do think it's fair to point 35 of those yards came on one play.  The other 29 carries by Sony/Henderson netted a grand total of 42 yards. It was tough sledding for Rams RB's.

 

[zed2283]

I’ve seen Robinson go for mid-seconds twice this off-season. I don’t necessarily agree with that value but based on other comments in here it doesn’t seem off.

I've got the 2.4 and 2.10, and would maybe offer the 2.10 but not the 2.4.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I'm surprised to hear that.

My concern with ETN is close to zero on performance with slight concerns on re-aggravation.  I would not even put the odds at 5% that ETN is not the player he was before and by start of next season.

Robinson's injury is not only more severe IMO but also around 5 months later. I'd put his odds of not being the same player more in the 25% range and that's eventually, not the start of the season when I put the odds as being more likely then not he's not ready to be a contributor and  to has a better shot of starting the season on IR/PUP then being a contributing member of Jags or my fantasy teams.  I think he's a really good player that relative to this draft class he should have second round value but my concern on him returning and timeframe of his return right now blows away my concern for ETN.

I’m more concerned about ETN than I am about Akers, not Robinson.

I have had players with Lisfranc injuries in the past and it has never gone well for me. Lots of little bones and tendons and muscles in the foot.

he’s also on what I see as a bad team, at least until they show me otherwise… And, I have never seen him play in the pros.

there’s a lot not to like about ETN right now. But I fully concede he could be a star player player in the not too distant future.

 

[zamboni]

I’m more concerned about ETN than I am about Akers, not Robinson.

I have had players with Lisfranc injuries in the past and it has never gone well for me. Lots of little bones and tendons and muscles in the foot.

he’s also on what I see as a bad team, at least until they show me otherwise… And, I have never seen him play in the pros.

there’s a lot not to like about ETN right now. But I fully concede he could be a star player player in the not too distant future.

Fortunately or unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be a large sample size of big-name players that have had Lisfranc. And with modern medicine, maybe it’s something that can be overcome. But there are certainly residual risks, no doubt.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Fortunately or unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be a large sample size of big-name players that have had Lisfranc. And with modern medicine, maybe it’s something that can be overcome. But there are certainly residual risks, no doubt.

Yeah, I’m a FBB guy for 30 years. More than a couple baseball players have had it & not made it back. Some have. 

In the NFL, names that come to mind: Julio Jones & Brian Westbrook had relatively minor Lisfranc injuries & had great years afterwards.

MJD was never the same player after his. That was the beginning of the end. Same with Santonio Holmes. His career took a nose dive. And it basically ended Cedrick Benson’s career. And Ronnie Brown’s.

And it really impacted Ted Ginn Jr., but so did his inability to use the oven mitts at the ends of his arms. 

 

[zamboni]

Good sign on May 23:

https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2022/5/23/23138103/jacksonville-jaguars-running-back-travis-etienne-cleared-for-practice-activity

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Good sign on May 23:

https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2022/5/23/23138103/jacksonville-jaguars-running-back-travis-etienne-cleared-for-practice-activity

As I recently dealt for ETN (despite everything I said on the very page) I always open this topic with my breath held. Love seeing positive updates!  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Looks good. Nice cut, good burst, smooth hands.  

 

[Faust]

Could Travis Etienne Be the Jaguars' Next Fantasy Relevant Star?

 

[Faust]

Jaguars RB Travis Etienne said, "I if I could be like Deebo Samuel, I would love that."

The quote came after a practice in which Etienne "seemingly only caught passes" according to CBS Sports' Jonathan Jones. The first-round back shot down the notion of switching to receiver but did preach the idea of using his position flexibility to exploit defenses. Etienne caught 85 passes for more than 1,000 yards in his final two seasons at Clemson. He should have a high floor as a pass-catcher early in his first season of action and could take on a hefty workload as a runner if James Robinson (torn Achilles') isn't ready for Week 1. Expect Etienne's ADP to steadily rise with each positive practice report throughout the summer.

SOURCE: CBS Sports

Jun 1, 2022, 1:58 PM ET

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

The positive news just keeps rolling in: 

“JaguarReport's John Shipley reports that Travis Etienne is "legitimately looking like his old self from an explosiveness standpoint.

Shipley writes that "Etienne's explosion and ability to quickly cut and make breaks stood out during pass-catching drills." He also noted his pass-catching ability and believes Etienne "still has the best pure speed and home-run ability before and after the catch of any player on the offense." Etienne suffered a foot fracture in the summer of 2021 and has yet to play an NFL game, but he appears to be back to the form that earned him a first-round selection. Etienne is unlikely to be a workhorse this season, but his pass-catching ability and breakaway speed could still make him a fantasy star as the lead back in a committee”

 
 

Just saw he’s ranked ~RB23 by CBS, similarly by others. This dude could easily be a top 10 PPR back. 

I’ll happily take the injury discount anywhere in the 2nd in redraft.

 

[Rubi]

Drafted him late last year,of course he was derailed by the injury but with Pope Urban in charge not sure if he would have reached his potential anyway. Live just over an hour south of Jax and all the talking heads and football writers are very high on him this year.

 

[Terpman22]

Drafted him late last year,of course he was derailed by the injury but with Pope Urban in charge not sure if he would have reached his potential anyway. Live just over an hour south of Jax and all the talking heads and football writers are very high on him this year.

Drafted him 2x last year, kept him in one league. Hedging b/c no one has ever come back from the injury and has been "the same" but am hopeful! 

Urban would have ruined him anyway 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Drafted him late last year,of course he was derailed by the injury but with Pope Urban in charge not sure if he would have reached his potential anyway. Live just over an hour south of Jax and all the talking heads and football writers are very high on him this year.

Urban was a disaster but he did make ETN a first round pick so he (hopefully) had a plan for him. Obviously Pederson is a step up though.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Hedging b/c no one has ever come back from the injury and has been "the same" but am hopeful! 

Due respect, but that’s simply not accurate. Plenty of players have made full comebacks from this injury.

le’Von Bell had a nice career after his Lisfranc injury in 2013. He certainly looked “the same” when he was tearing it up with the Steelers. 

Matt Schaub also came back 100% from his. Taysom Hill, Cam Newton, etc - reportedly 90% of athletes who’ve suffered Lisfranc injuries have fully recovered. It just takes time.

In a study between 2000 & 2010, out of 20 NFL athletes who suffered a Lisfranc, only 2 didn’t come back from it. 

Some of it has to do with the age of the athlete when it happens. And medicine is always improving, so where at one time a torn ACL was considered career ending, now it’s a 10 month recovery.

When a beat writer is reporting that ETN looks just as explosive in cuts and just as fast (fastest on the team), that tells me ETN is on the plus side of potential outcomes.

i understand trepidation/skepticism when it’s just “so and so says he’s 85% recovered”, but when it’s a player proving he’s recovered on the field, it’s time to stop evaluating it in terms of “how in general players recover” to “how specifically this player has recovered”. 

https://lermagazine.com/news/in-the-moment-sports-medicine/most-nfl-players-successfully-return-from-lisfranc-injury-but-it-takes-time

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Urban would have ruined him anyway 

Agree 100% with this part. 

 

[Terpman22]

Due respect, but that’s simply not accurate. Plenty of players have made full comebacks from this injury.

le’Von Bell had a nice career after his Lisfranc injury in 2013. He certainly looked “the same” when he was tearing it up with the Steelers. 

Matt Schaub also came back 100% from his. Taysom Hill, Cam Newton, etc - reportedly 90% of athletes who’ve suffered Lisfranc injuries have fully recovered. It just takes time.

In a study between 2000 & 2010, out of 20 NFL athletes who suffered a Lisfranc, only 2 didn’t come back from it. 

Some of it has to do with the age of the athlete when it happens. And medicine is always improving, so where at one time a torn ACL was considered career ending, now it’s a 10 month recovery.

When a beat writer is reporting that ETN looks just as explosive in cuts and just as fast (fastest on the team), that tells me ETN is on the plus side of potential outcomes.

i understand trepidation/skepticism when it’s just “so and so says he’s 85% recovered”, but when it’s a player proving he’s recovered on the field, it’s time to stop evaluating it in terms of “how in general players recover” to “how specifically this player has recovered”. 

https://lermagazine.com/news/in-the-moment-sports-medicine/most-nfl-players-successfully-return-from-lisfranc-injury-but-it-takes-time

Sorry, I meant to say "running backs with complete lis franc tears" 

Yeah some have come back for sure. To each their own. The league I traded him got a 1st and 2nd so I feel good about that part. 

Time will tell, but I do feel Dougie P should get a good amount of production out of him.