RB Willis McGahee is STILL Overrated (2 Viewers)

[Snotbubbles]

Well wouldn't you have to also cite Henry's nubmer of carries inside the 5 along with his QB's in order to contrast the two?

Bledsoe pass attempts inside 5: 22 (6 TDs-1 INT)Bledsoe rush attempts inside 5: 4 (1 TD)McGahee rush attempts inside 5: 25 (10 TDs)Henry rush attempts inside 5: 3 (0 TDs)McGahee % of rush attempts inside 5: 78%Manning pass attempts inside 5: 24 (16 TDs-0 INT)Manning rush attempts inside 5: 0Edge rush attempts inside 5: 21 (6 TDs)Rhodes rush attemtps inside 5: 2 (1 TD)Edge % of rush attempts inside 5: 91%What I take from those numbers is:A. Edge will get a higher percentage of his teams rushing attempts inside the 5. Why? Manning won't attempt rushes there, and they aren't looking for anyone else to carry the ball inside the 5. Plus, if Bledsoe got 4 rush attempts how many do you think Losman will get? Losman can't be less mobile than Bledsoe. B. Indy was much more effective passing the ball inside the 5 thus limiting the rush attempts by Edge. If Indy was as ineffective passing the ball inside the 5 as Buffalo was that could have meant as many as 9 more rush attempts inside the 5 for Edge. C. McGahee didn't miss out on alot of TD scoring opportunities last year. He got all but 7 of the BUF rush attempts inside the 5 last year. Assuming the same amout of appearances inside the 5 for BUF, if Losman is even a minor improvement over Bledsoe passing wise, McGahee will get even less attempts next year.D. Edge wasn't nearly as effective rushing the ball as he should have been.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

BTW, why is everybody focusing on Edge vs. McGahee? Edge WAS ineffective on the goal line last year. There, happy? Just because a guy (Willis) was better at something than the one of the worst in the league last year (Edge) doesn't mean he's the best thing since sliced bread.You want to compare? Compare Willis to Alexander, or Deuce, or Martin, or Priest, or Barber, or Thomas Jones, or LT, or the Bus, or Dom Davis, or Rudi Johnson, or Duckett, or Lewis, or Dunn, or Larry Johnson, or Michael Pittman, or Dorsey Levens, or Emmitt Smith, or Ahman Green, or Greg Jones, or Kevin Jones, or Westbrook, or Foster, or Wells, or Minor, or George, or Hicks. Or Steven Jackson, or Nick Goings, or Tyrone Wheatley, or Derrick Blalock, or.... who ALL had better ratios of TDs to goal-line touches.Does the guy suck on the goal-line? No, he wasn't THAT bad, but calling him the next great TD scorer because he outperformed the worst guy in the league in 2004 is an absolute joke.

 

[ko-jack]

Well wouldn't you have to also cite Henry's nubmer of carries inside the 5 C. McGahee didn't miss out on alot of TD scoring opportunities last year. He got all but 7 of the BUF rush attempts inside the 5 last year.

lol

7 is alot of attempts.

 

[jurb26]

BTW, why is everybody focusing on Edge vs. McGahee?  Edge WAS ineffective on the goal line last year.  There, happy?  Just because a guy (Willis) was better at something than the one of the worst in the league last year (Edge) doesn't mean he's the best thing since sliced bread.

You want to compare?  Compare Willis to Alexander, or Deuce, or Martin, or Priest, or Barber, or Thomas Jones, or LT, or the Bus, or Dom Davis, or Rudi Johnson, or Duckett, or Lewis, or Dunn, or Larry Johnson, or Michael Pittman, or Dorsey Levens, or Emmitt Smith, or Ahman Green, or Greg Jones, or Kevin Jones, or Westbrook, or Foster, or Wells, or Minor, or George, or Hicks.  Or Steven Jackson, or Nick Goings, or Tyrone Wheatley, or Derrick Blalock, or....  who ALL had better ratios of TDs to goal-line touches.

Does the guy suck on the goal-line?  No, he wasn't THAT bad, but calling him the next great TD scorer because he outperformed the worst guy in the league in 2004 is an absolute joke.

Are you telling me you don't expect Wilis to improve in the future? How many RBs or players in general do not get better after their 1st NFL season (yes, last year was really his 1st)? He was basically a rookie last year and was still playinjg bellow his potential and full health. This is why Willis is ranked at 5 and maybe a hair over the other guys in that 2nd tier. What he was able to do last year, in his 1st NFL season, post injury and at about 80% health was indeed very impressive. The bottom line is that Willis in his first year performed at a higher level than LT did his rookie year. LT was on an awful team, Willis was still in recovery. This seems to be a push to me. Now I'm not saying he will become the next LT, that would be too much to expect from any player. But, did LT improve after his 1st year? What player doesn't!?!?This seems to be a glaring oversight on the part of many Willis bashers. None of you are willing to except that fact that it is likely he IMPROVES next year as a player.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

BTW, why is everybody focusing on Edge vs. McGahee?  Edge WAS ineffective on the goal line last year.  There, happy?  Just because a guy (Willis) was better at something than the one of the worst in the league last year (Edge) doesn't mean he's the best thing since sliced bread.

You want to compare?  Compare Willis to Alexander, or Deuce, or Martin, or Priest, or Barber, or Thomas Jones, or LT, or the Bus, or Dom Davis, or Rudi Johnson, or Duckett, or Lewis, or Dunn, or Larry Johnson, or Michael Pittman, or Dorsey Levens, or Emmitt Smith, or Ahman Green, or Greg Jones, or Kevin Jones, or Westbrook, or Foster, or Wells, or Minor, or George, or Hicks.  Or Steven Jackson, or Nick Goings, or Tyrone Wheatley, or Derrick Blalock, or....  who ALL had better ratios of TDs to goal-line touches.

Does the guy suck on the goal-line?  No, he wasn't THAT bad, but calling him the next great TD scorer because he outperformed the worst guy in the league in 2004 is an absolute joke.

Are you telling me you don't expect Wilis to improve in the future? How many RBs or players in general do not get better after their 1st NFL season (yes, last year was really his 1st)? He was basically a rookie last year and was still playinjg bellow his potential and full health. This is why Willis is ranked at 5 and maybe a hair over the other guys in that 2nd tier. What he was able to do last year, in his 1st NFL season, post injury and at about 80% health was indeed very impressive. The bottom line is that Willis in his first year performed at a higher level than LT did his rookie year. LT was on an awful team, Willis was still in recovery. This seems to be a push to me. Now I'm not saying he will become the next LT, that would be too much to expect from any player. But, did LT improve after his 1st year? What player doesn't!?!?This seems to be a glaring oversight on the part of many Willis bashers. None of you are willing to except that fact that it is likely he IMPROVES next year as a player.

He MIGHT improve or he might not - it doesn't mean I'm going to throw him in the top 5 based on that alone. Maybe Jackson will improve. Maybe Julius Jones will improve. Maybe Kevin Jones will improve. Why aren't they in the top 5?As I've said in other posts, I don't buy the health argument. People talk out of both sides of their mouth on this one. At the end of last season it had been very nearly two full years since his injury. Are you certain the knee is going to get significantly better than it was then? I'm not.

 

[Noahs Troopers]

This just in: McGahee stole JoeT's lunch money as a child.Hate McGahee enough, geeze.

 

[Snotbubbles]

7 is alot of attempts.

Do you think Losman is going to be a less effective runner than Bledsoe? A majority of QBs took around 3 rush attempts inside the 5 last year. Tomlinson lost 6 attempts inside the 5 last year, Alexander lost 4, Barber lost 14, Martin lost 4. In fact, McGahee had the 3d most attempts inside the 5 last year.Tomlinson: 30Dillon: 26McGahee: 25Bettis: 23Edge: 21Deuce: 20I can't believe anybody seriously believes he's gonna get many more attempts inside the 5 then he had last year.

 

[jurb26]

He MIGHT improve or he might not - it doesn't mean I'm going to throw him in the top 5 based on that alone.  Maybe Jackson will improve.  Maybe Julius Jones will improve.  Maybe Kevin Jones will improve.  Why aren't they in the top 5?

As I've said in other posts, I don't buy the health argument.  People talk out of both sides of their mouth on this one.  At the end of last season it had been very nearly two full years since his injury.  Are you certain the knee is going to get significantly better than it was then?  I'm not.

So I am to assume that you feel:a. Rookie RBs do not improve after their 1st year in the NFL.

b. Willis was at full health and potential last year.

This is just silly man. Did you watch any Buf games last year? Did you not see his injury in college?

If you want to be down on Willis thats fine, but these reasons seem completly outlandish. There are many other reasons to be down on him that make much more sense (even though I don't agree with them). You could be worried about the rookie QB taking over, his lack of Rec points, or just his ability to stay healthy in general. When you resort to stuff like whats posted above though, I can't help but think you just have a bias against the guy.

 

[jurb26]

This just in: McGahee stole JoeT's lunch money as a child.

Hate McGahee enough, geeze.

Apperantly he stoll more peoples than just JoeT's around here. The guy was from the U afterall....

 

[jurb26]

7 is alot of attempts.

Do you think Losman is going to be a less effective runner than Bledsoe? A majority of QBs took around 3 rush attempts inside the 5 last year. Tomlinson lost 6 attempts inside the 5 last year, Alexander lost 4, Barber lost 14, Martin lost 4. In fact, McGahee had the 3d most attempts inside the 5 last year.Tomlinson: 30

Dillon: 26

McGahee: 25

Bettis: 23

Edge: 21

Deuce: 20

I can't believe anybody seriously believes he's gonna get many more attempts inside the 5 then he had last year.

When did RBs getting ops in the redzone or scoring postion become a bad thing for FF players?

 

[Chaos]

Every year we defenses get more stout and some get more soft versus the run. Why then do we continue to use last year's numbers when ranking this year's strength of schedule. That McGahee faces the NFC South instead of NFC West is almost inconsiquential. When you are good, you are good. McGahee and the Bills will be just fine. McGahee in the #5 to #10 range is most likely spot on.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Why should we expect his goaline attempts to go down? He only started 12 games last year, i cant think of any reason why his goalloine carries wont at least stay the same. What i do expect is his catches to increase and his rushing yards as well. I have Mcgahee for around 1300 rush yards, 12 TD's, 300 rec yards, 1 TD with potential do alot more. Like i said before, with the exception of LT, i cant think of any other RB that i would say is a lock for better numbers.As of now, my top RB's are:1.TomlinsonDropoff2.Mcgahee, Alexander, KJones, Deuce, JamesDropoff3.Dillon, Portis, Holmes, RudiDropoff4.Lewis, Barber, JJones, SJackson, AGreen, DDavisWhat i dont want in a redraft is pick 2-6, but if i do end up with a pick there, Mcgahee has just as good a shot of being on my team as anyone else.

 

[Snotbubbles]

When did RBs getting ops in the redzone or scoring postion become a bad thing for FF players?

It's not. But because McGahee won't compile receiving yardage totals like other backs being in the top 5 will depends on him getting significantly more TDs than the likes of Barber, Deuce, Green, and Portis (with LT, Alexander, Holmes, and Edge IMO being in the top 5). He saw the third most looks inside the 5 last year. Even in a full 16 game season, he couldn't hope for much more than what he got last year.

 

[ko-jack]

7 is alot of attempts.

Do you think Losman is going to be a less effective runner than Bledsoe? A majority of QBs took around 3 rush attempts inside the 5 last year. Tomlinson lost 6 attempts inside the 5 last year, Alexander lost 4, Barber lost 14, Martin lost 4. In fact, McGahee had the 3d most attempts inside the 5 last year.Tomlinson: 30

Dillon: 26

McGahee: 25

Bettis: 23

Edge: 21

Deuce: 20

I can't believe anybody seriously believes he's gonna get many more attempts inside the 5 then he had last year.

the fact he was 3rd, and didnt start for 4 games, and missed 7 attempts, could be a reason to specualte why he might get more. but who cares if he doesnt? the fact that he was 3rd, means he will likely score a lot of tds, which is the point here.tell me that losman is moblie, can run/scramble, and this will hurt willis at the goal line. its a much better arguement. come to think of it, when you add that to my previous negative points about willis (bills were on a 9-3 streak when he did his damage, they dont play the nfc west this year, he doesnt catch enough balls) iam liking him less and less, even with the tds

 

[jurb26]

When did RBs getting ops in the redzone or scoring postion become a bad thing for FF players?

It's not. But because McGahee won't compile receiving yardage totals like other backs being in the top 5 will depends on him getting significantly more TDs than the likes of Barber, Deuce, Green, and Portis (with LT, Alexander, Holmes, and Edge IMO being in the top 5). He saw the third most looks inside the 5 last year. Even in a full 16 game season, he couldn't hope for much more than what he got last year.

I don't happen to be a big Buf fan, but it sems to me that Willis is the best player on this team and center of the O. He sparked the winning streak last year, not just went along for the ride. Lets not forget that this team was 0-4 when he came in as the starter. They were said to have a QB that was washed up and had one foot in the retirement grave, a terrible Oline, and a group of young inexperienced WRs along with an old one that lost a step. With a young green QB, I would think that they lean on him just as much if not more this year. I could be wrong though.

 

[Burning Sensation]

When did RBs getting ops in the redzone or scoring postion become a bad thing for FF players?

It's not. But because McGahee won't compile receiving yardage totals like other backs being in the top 5 will depends on him getting significantly more TDs than the likes of Barber, Deuce, Green, and Portis (with LT, Alexander, Holmes, and Edge IMO being in the top 5). He saw the third most looks inside the 5 last year. Even in a full 16 game season, he couldn't hope for much more than what he got last year.

What makes you think this?

 

[wilked]

Here aer all of McGahee's plays within the opponent's 10 weeks 6-9. As you can see, automatic is far from the right word. 11 times his team was within the 10, and gave him opportunities, twice he converted these chances to points. BTW, I stopped at 9 due to boredom. Week 10 was NE, something tells me it didn't get any better

Week 6

3 8:43 10 - 10 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 9:21 17 - 13 1st-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 8:44 17 - 13 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

4 1:49 20 - 13 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 2 yards

4 0:59 20 - 13 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 3 yards

No TD

Week 7

3 9:09 3 - 17 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 6:54 6 - 17 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

Week 8

1 4:36 3 - 0 1st-and-5 opp 5 rushed for 5 yards TOUCHDOWN

3 0:43 17 - 7 2nd-and-6 opp 6 rushed for -2 yards

No TD

4 13:39 24 - 7 1st-and-10 opp 11 rushed for 7 yards

4 13:03 24 - 7 2nd-and-3 opp 4 rushed for 1 yards

4 12:19 24 - 7 3rd-and-2 opp 3 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 8:03 37 - 7 1st-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 1 yards

4 7:36 37 - 7 2nd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 6:59 37 - 7 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 1 yards TOUCHDOWN

Week 9

2 0:33 7 - 10 2nd-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 0 yards

No TD

3 9:37 10 - 10 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 12:38 17 - 10 1st-and-10 opp 10 rushed for 6 yards

4 12:04 17 - 10 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 0 yards

4 11:28 17 - 10 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -8 yards

No TD

Bump for Burning SensationIs McGahee still 'automatic'

 

[jurb26]

Here aer all of McGahee's plays within the opponent's 10 weeks 6-9.  As you can see, automatic is far from the right word.  11 times his team was within the 10, and gave him opportunities, twice he converted these chances to points.  BTW, I stopped at 9 due to boredom.  Week 10 was NE, something tells me it didn't get any better

Week 6

3 8:43 10 - 10 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 9:21 17 - 13 1st-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 8:44 17 - 13 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

4 1:49 20 - 13 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 2 yards

4 0:59 20 - 13 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 3 yards

No TD

Week 7

3 9:09 3 - 17 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 6:54 6 - 17 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

Week 8

1 4:36 3 - 0 1st-and-5 opp 5 rushed for 5 yards TOUCHDOWN

3 0:43 17 - 7 2nd-and-6 opp 6 rushed for -2 yards

No TD

4 13:39 24 - 7 1st-and-10 opp 11 rushed for 7 yards

4 13:03 24 - 7 2nd-and-3 opp 4 rushed for 1 yards

4 12:19 24 - 7 3rd-and-2 opp 3 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 8:03 37 - 7 1st-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 1 yards

4 7:36 37 - 7 2nd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 6:59 37 - 7 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 1 yards TOUCHDOWN

Week 9

2 0:33 7 - 10 2nd-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 0 yards

No TD

3 9:37 10 - 10 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 12:38 17 - 10 1st-and-10 opp 10 rushed for 6 yards

4 12:04 17 - 10 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 0 yards

4 11:28 17 - 10 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -8 yards

No TD

Bump for Burning SensationIs McGahee still 'automatic'

Why exactly did you only use weeks 6-9?

 

[wilked]

Here aer all of McGahee's plays within the opponent's 10 weeks 6-9. As you can see, automatic is far from the right word. 11 times his team was within the 10, and gave him opportunities, twice he converted these chances to points. BTW, I stopped at 9 due to boredom. Week 10 was NE, something tells me it didn't get any better

Week 6

3 8:43 10 - 10 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 9:21 17 - 13 1st-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 8:44 17 - 13 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

4 1:49 20 - 13 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 2 yards

4 0:59 20 - 13 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 3 yards

No TD

Week 7

3 9:09 3 - 17 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 6:54 6 - 17 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

Week 8

1 4:36 3 - 0 1st-and-5 opp 5 rushed for 5 yards TOUCHDOWN

3 0:43 17 - 7 2nd-and-6 opp 6 rushed for -2 yards

No TD

4 13:39 24 - 7 1st-and-10 opp 11 rushed for 7 yards

4 13:03 24 - 7 2nd-and-3 opp 4 rushed for 1 yards

4 12:19 24 - 7 3rd-and-2 opp 3 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 8:03 37 - 7 1st-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 1 yards

4 7:36 37 - 7 2nd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 6:59 37 - 7 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 1 yards TOUCHDOWN

Week 9

2 0:33 7 - 10 2nd-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 0 yards

No TD

3 9:37 10 - 10 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 12:38 17 - 10 1st-and-10 opp 10 rushed for 6 yards

4 12:04 17 - 10 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 0 yards

4 11:28 17 - 10 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -8 yards

No TD

Bump for Burning SensationIs McGahee still 'automatic'

Why exactly did you only use weeks 6-9?

I bolded the applicable answer for the reading impaired

 

[Holy Schneikes]

He MIGHT improve or he might not - it doesn't mean I'm going to throw him in the top 5 based on that alone.  Maybe Jackson will improve.  Maybe Julius Jones will improve.  Maybe Kevin Jones will improve.  Why aren't they in the top 5?

As I've said in other posts, I don't buy the health argument.  People talk out of both sides of their mouth on this one.  At the end of last season it had been very nearly two full years since his injury.  Are you certain the knee is going to get significantly better than it was then?  I'm not.

So I am to assume that you feel:a. Rookie RBs do not improve after their 1st year in the NFL.

b. Willis was at full health and potential last year.

This is just silly man. Did you watch any Buf games last year? Did you not see his injury in college?

If you want to be down on Willis thats fine, but these reasons seem completly outlandish. There are many other reasons to be down on him that make much more sense (even though I don't agree with them). You could be worried about the rookie QB taking over, his lack of Rec points, or just his ability to stay healthy in general. When you resort to stuff like whats posted above though, I can't help but think you just have a bias against the guy.

You are simply not reading what I am writing - it's like talking to a wall. Yeah, sometimes rookies improve. Sometimes they don't. It's not something I bank on. And if it were, why bank on it more for this particular rookie than any of the others who were equally if not more impressive to me? What's so hard to understand about that?Willis could improve and be a great fantasy back in 2005, and I would be comfortable saying that barring injury, he will be at least a decent fantasy back. What I'm NOT willing to do is ASSUME he will improve in all the areas that make great fantasy backs great based on what I have seen so far. Too many question marks that other, equally talented (yes, I said it) backs don't have.

As for the other issues with him, yeah, I've mentioned all of those before in about 15 other threads. Everybody already knows about them. Unlike some of McGahee supporters around here, I try not to repeat myself when possible (though it is difficult when people ask me questions I've already answered). He doesn't seem to catch the ball (or Buf isn't using him that way). He had a ####ty YPC. He has a young QB leading his offense. There ya go.

And yes, as outlandish as it may seem, I have reservations about McGahee's knee signifigantly improving from it's status at the end of last year. Again, for the 100th time - at the nd of last year, it had been very nearly TWO FULL YEARS SINCE THE INJURY. How much better is it going to get? How long will it take to get there? So no, I don't think he was at "80%" last year and will be magically at "100%" this year. He was running against Cleveland and Cinncinatti at 3.4 YPC in the middle of December last year, 23 and a half months after he was injured.

I also have ALREADY TALKED ABOUT watching Willis in action. Yes I have - not a ton, but some. He looked pretty good. He did not look great to me. But, I'm just "silly" I guess.

 

[jurb26]

Here aer all of McGahee's plays within the opponent's 10 weeks 6-9.  As you can see, automatic is far from the right word.  11 times his team was within the 10, and gave him opportunities, twice he converted these chances to points.  BTW, I stopped at 9 due to boredom.  Week 10 was NE, something tells me it didn't get any better

Week 6

3 8:43 10 - 10 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 9:21 17 - 13 1st-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 8:44 17 - 13 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

4 1:49 20 - 13 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 2 yards

4 0:59 20 - 13 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 3 yards

No TD

Week 7

3 9:09 3 - 17 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 6:54 6 - 17 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

Week 8

1 4:36 3 - 0 1st-and-5 opp 5 rushed for 5 yards TOUCHDOWN

3 0:43 17 - 7 2nd-and-6 opp 6 rushed for -2 yards

No TD

4 13:39 24 - 7 1st-and-10 opp 11 rushed for 7 yards

4 13:03 24 - 7 2nd-and-3 opp 4 rushed for 1 yards

4 12:19 24 - 7 3rd-and-2 opp 3 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 8:03 37 - 7 1st-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 1 yards

4 7:36 37 - 7 2nd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 6:59 37 - 7 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 1 yards TOUCHDOWN

Week 9

2 0:33 7 - 10 2nd-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 0 yards

No TD

3 9:37 10 - 10 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 12:38 17 - 10 1st-and-10 opp 10 rushed for 6 yards

4 12:04 17 - 10 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 0 yards

4 11:28 17 - 10 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -8 yards

No TD

Bump for Burning SensationIs McGahee still 'automatic'

Why exactly did you only use weeks 6-9?

I bolded the applicable answer for the reading impaired

Oh, cause I thought it was because he went on to score 10 TDs in his next 8 games and that you were simply trying to scew the results in your own favor. Thats OK, I'll just have to remember that you get "bored" when presenting information from here on out and take what you ay with a grain of salt.

 

[wilked]

Here aer all of McGahee's plays within the opponent's 10 weeks 6-9. As you can see, automatic is far from the right word. 11 times his team was within the 10, and gave him opportunities, twice he converted these chances to points. BTW, I stopped at 9 due to boredom. Week 10 was NE, something tells me it didn't get any better

Week 6

3 8:43 10 - 10 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 9:21 17 - 13 1st-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 8:44 17 - 13 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

4 1:49 20 - 13 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 2 yards

4 0:59 20 - 13 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 3 yards

No TD

Week 7

3 9:09 3 - 17 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 6:54 6 - 17 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

Week 8

1 4:36 3 - 0 1st-and-5 opp 5 rushed for 5 yards TOUCHDOWN

3 0:43 17 - 7 2nd-and-6 opp 6 rushed for -2 yards

No TD

4 13:39 24 - 7 1st-and-10 opp 11 rushed for 7 yards

4 13:03 24 - 7 2nd-and-3 opp 4 rushed for 1 yards

4 12:19 24 - 7 3rd-and-2 opp 3 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 8:03 37 - 7 1st-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 1 yards

4 7:36 37 - 7 2nd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 6:59 37 - 7 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 1 yards TOUCHDOWN

Week 9

2 0:33 7 - 10 2nd-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 0 yards

No TD

3 9:37 10 - 10 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 12:38 17 - 10 1st-and-10 opp 10 rushed for 6 yards

4 12:04 17 - 10 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 0 yards

4 11:28 17 - 10 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -8 yards

No TD

Bump for Burning SensationIs McGahee still 'automatic'

Why exactly did you only use weeks 6-9?

I bolded the applicable answer for the reading impaired

Oh, cause I thought it was because he went on to score 10 TDs in his next 8 games and that you were simply trying to scew the results in your own favor. Thats OK, I'll just have to remember that you get "bored" when presenting information from here on out and take what you ay with a grain of salt.

Feel free then to finish the studyhttp://footballguys.com/McGaWi00-5.htm

There is more than enough information above to show that he is far from automatic near the goalline.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Here aer all of McGahee's plays within the opponent's 10 weeks 6-9.  As you can see, automatic is far from the right word.  11 times his team was within the 10, and gave him opportunities, twice he converted these chances to points.  BTW, I stopped at 9 due to boredom.  Week 10 was NE, something tells me it didn't get any better

Week 6

3 8:43 10 - 10 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 9:21 17 - 13 1st-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 8:44 17 - 13 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

4 1:49 20 - 13 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 2 yards

4 0:59 20 - 13 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 3 yards

No TD

Week 7

3 9:09 3 - 17 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 6:54 6 - 17 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

Week 8

1 4:36 3 - 0 1st-and-5 opp 5 rushed for 5 yards TOUCHDOWN

3 0:43 17 - 7 2nd-and-6 opp 6 rushed for -2 yards

No TD

4 13:39 24 - 7 1st-and-10 opp 11 rushed for 7 yards

4 13:03 24 - 7 2nd-and-3 opp 4 rushed for 1 yards

4 12:19 24 - 7 3rd-and-2 opp 3 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 8:03 37 - 7 1st-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 1 yards

4 7:36 37 - 7 2nd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 6:59 37 - 7 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 1 yards TOUCHDOWN

Week 9

2 0:33 7 - 10 2nd-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 0 yards

No TD

3 9:37 10 - 10 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 12:38 17 - 10 1st-and-10 opp 10 rushed for 6 yards

4 12:04 17 - 10 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 0 yards

4 11:28 17 - 10 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -8 yards

No TD

Bump for Burning SensationIs McGahee still 'automatic'

OK, first of all i never said automatic, i said "almost a guarantee". Also, i think what i meant came out wrong. Let me try it a different way:Your RB's team just made it to the opponents 3 yard line, it is first and goal. Which RB would you rather have at this point, Edge or Willis?

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Here aer all of McGahee's plays within the opponent's 10 weeks 6-9.  As you can see, automatic is far from the right word.  11 times his team was within the 10, and gave him opportunities, twice he converted these chances to points.  BTW, I stopped at 9 due to boredom.  Week 10 was NE, something tells me it didn't get any better

Week 6

3 8:43 10 - 10 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 9:21 17 - 13 1st-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 8:44 17 - 13 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

4 1:49 20 - 13 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 2 yards

4 0:59 20 - 13 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 3 yards

No TD

Week 7

3 9:09 3 - 17 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 6:54 6 - 17 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

Week 8

1 4:36 3 - 0 1st-and-5 opp 5 rushed for 5 yards TOUCHDOWN

3 0:43 17 - 7 2nd-and-6 opp 6 rushed for -2 yards

No TD

4 13:39 24 - 7 1st-and-10 opp 11 rushed for 7 yards

4 13:03 24 - 7 2nd-and-3 opp 4 rushed for 1 yards

4 12:19 24 - 7 3rd-and-2 opp 3 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 8:03 37 - 7 1st-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 1 yards

4 7:36 37 - 7 2nd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 6:59 37 - 7 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 1 yards TOUCHDOWN

Week 9

2 0:33 7 - 10 2nd-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 0 yards

No TD

3 9:37 10 - 10 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 12:38 17 - 10 1st-and-10 opp 10 rushed for 6 yards

4 12:04 17 - 10 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 0 yards

4 11:28 17 - 10 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -8 yards

No TD

Bump for Burning SensationIs McGahee still 'automatic'

OK, first of all i never said automatic, i said "almost a guarantee". Also, i think what i meant came out wrong. Let me try it a different way:Your RB's team just made it to the opponents 3 yard line, it is first and goal. Which RB would you rather have at this point, Edge or Willis?

Based on 2004, Willis. Congratulations, Willis was NOT the absolute worst guy to have in that situation. Better announce that his 35% ratio is a "guaranteed 6 points" and put him in the top 5.

 

[wilked]

Yeah, but what percent of goalline oppurtunities did he get? plus, me point was was that last year, people were complaining all over these boards that Manning was being selfish, and that James was not getting any goalline carries.

Perception and reality are not always the same.

i agree, my point is this. When the Bills do get inside the 5, its almost a guaranteed 6 for Willis. I cant say the same for Edge.

Even this is a bit strong. I honestly did not know what I would find when I went to the PbPs, but what I did find is that it was the exception rather than the rule for him to score with his team within the 10.As for Edge vs. McGahee inside the 5, why do I have to choose here? I will take someone effective within the 5 instead, like a Tiki Barber or a Holmes

 

[Burning Sensation]

He MIGHT improve or he might not - it doesn't mean I'm going to throw him in the top 5 based on that alone.  Maybe Jackson will improve.  Maybe Julius Jones will improve.  Maybe Kevin Jones will improve.  Why aren't they in the top 5?

As I've said in other posts, I don't buy the health argument.  People talk out of both sides of their mouth on this one.  At the end of last season it had been very nearly two full years since his injury.  Are you certain the knee is going to get significantly better than it was then?  I'm not.

So I am to assume that you feel:a. Rookie RBs do not improve after their 1st year in the NFL.

b. Willis was at full health and potential last year.

This is just silly man. Did you watch any Buf games last year? Did you not see his injury in college?

If you want to be down on Willis thats fine, but these reasons seem completly outlandish. There are many other reasons to be down on him that make much more sense (even though I don't agree with them). You could be worried about the rookie QB taking over, his lack of Rec points, or just his ability to stay healthy in general. When you resort to stuff like whats posted above though, I can't help but think you just have a bias against the guy.

As for the other issues with him, yeah, I've mentioned all of those before in about 15 other threads. Everybody already knows about them. Unlike some of McGahee supporters around here, I try not to repeat myself when possible (though it is difficult when people ask me questions I've already answered). He doesn't seem to catch the ball (or Buf isn't using him that way). He had a ####ty YPC. He has a young QB leading his offense. There ya go.

He doesnt SEEM to catch the ball? What makes you think he wont improve on that this year?He had a pretty ####ty YPC? who is your #1 overall RB this year, what was his YPC last year?

Young QB leading the offense? I dont care how young or inexperienced he is, he can not be any worse than Bledsoe last year. Also, i would think with a young QB, Mcgahees catches will go up, especially considering the lack of a decent pass catching TE.

As far as the injury to his knee, how long did it take Edge to get back to 100%? Only last year did he even look anything like he did before his knee injury, so i think it is safe to say it certainly cant hurt that Mcgahee is now past the 2 year point since his injury.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Here aer all of McGahee's plays within the opponent's 10 weeks 6-9.  As you can see, automatic is far from the right word.  11 times his team was within the 10, and gave him opportunities, twice he converted these chances to points.  BTW, I stopped at 9 due to boredom.  Week 10 was NE, something tells me it didn't get any better

Week 6

3 8:43 10 - 10 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 9:21 17 - 13 1st-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 8:44 17 - 13 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

4 1:49 20 - 13 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 2 yards

4 0:59 20 - 13 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 3 yards

No TD

Week 7

3 9:09 3 - 17 1st-and-7 opp 7 rushed for 2 yards

No TD

4 6:54 6 - 17 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -1 yards

No TD

Week 8

1 4:36 3 - 0 1st-and-5 opp 5 rushed for 5 yards TOUCHDOWN

3 0:43 17 - 7 2nd-and-6 opp 6 rushed for -2 yards

No TD

4 13:39 24 - 7 1st-and-10 opp 11 rushed for 7 yards

4 13:03 24 - 7 2nd-and-3 opp 4 rushed for 1 yards

4 12:19 24 - 7 3rd-and-2 opp 3 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 8:03 37 - 7 1st-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 1 yards

4 7:36 37 - 7 2nd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 0 yards

4 6:59 37 - 7 3rd-and-1 opp 1 rushed for 1 yards TOUCHDOWN

Week 9

2 0:33 7 - 10 2nd-and-2 opp 2 rushed for 0 yards

No TD

3 9:37 10 - 10 1st-and-6 opp 6 rushed for 1 yards

No TD

4 12:38 17 - 10 1st-and-10 opp 10 rushed for 6 yards

4 12:04 17 - 10 2nd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for 0 yards

4 11:28 17 - 10 3rd-and-4 opp 4 rushed for -8 yards

No TD

Bump for Burning SensationIs McGahee still 'automatic'

OK, first of all i never said automatic, i said "almost a guarantee". Also, i think what i meant came out wrong. Let me try it a different way:Your RB's team just made it to the opponents 3 yard line, it is first and goal. Which RB would you rather have at this point, Edge or Willis?

Based on 2004, Willis. Congratulations, Willis was NOT the absolute worst guy to have in that situation. Better announce that his 35% ratio is a "guaranteed 6 points" and put him in the top 5.

How many RB's would you take over Willis in that situation? Holmes, Alexander, Tomlinson, who else?Also, for the 100th time, I never said guarantee, i said "almost guaranteed", and i have already said that in my attempt to get my point across, i overdid it by even saying that.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Yeah, but what percent of goalline oppurtunities did he get? plus, me point was was that last year, people were complaining all over these boards that Manning was being selfish, and that James was not getting any goalline carries.

Perception and reality are not always the same.

i agree, my point is this. When the Bills do get inside the 5, its almost a guaranteed 6 for Willis. I cant say the same for Edge.

Even this is a bit strong. I honestly did not know what I would find when I went to the PbPs, but what I did find is that it was the exception rather than the rule for him to score with his team within the 10.As for Edge vs. McGahee inside the 5, why do I have to choose here? I will take someone effective within the 5 instead, like a Tiki Barber or a Holmes

I was only using James as an example because he seems to be one of the players that most people have as a top 5 guy. You can choose Barber if you want, but i dont reccomend taking him on the top 5 in your draft. And wait, did you just insinuate that Barber is a good goalline back?

 

[wilked]

Yeah, but what percent of goalline oppurtunities did he get? plus, me point was was that last year, people were complaining all over these boards that Manning was being selfish, and that James was not getting any goalline carries.

Perception and reality are not always the same.

i agree, my point is this. When the Bills do get inside the 5, its almost a guaranteed 6 for Willis. I cant say the same for Edge.

Even this is a bit strong. I honestly did not know what I would find when I went to the PbPs, but what I did find is that it was the exception rather than the rule for him to score with his team within the 10.As for Edge vs. McGahee inside the 5, why do I have to choose here? I will take someone effective within the 5 instead, like a Tiki Barber or a Holmes

I was only using James as an example because he seems to be one of the players that most people have as a top 5 guy. You can choose Barber if you want, but i dont reccomend taking him on the top 5 in your draft. And wait, did you just insinuate that Barber is a good goalline back?

S, BS you need to spend some time with the numbers. Data Dominator is powerful - use it.Here are goalline numbers last year (filtered for minimum 10 goalline rushes.

http://footballguys.com/datadom.php?pt=p&g...l=10&mincat=rsh

It is sorted by fantasy points right now. Import the numbers into Excel and make a new category, TD / rush, and it will become even more revealing.

Tiki: 10 TDs, 15 rushes

Willis: 9 TDs, 25 rushes

 

[Burning Sensation]

Yeah, but what percent of goalline oppurtunities did he get? plus, me point was was that last year, people were complaining all over these boards that Manning was being selfish, and that James was not getting any goalline carries.

Perception and reality are not always the same.

i agree, my point is this. When the Bills do get inside the 5, its almost a guaranteed 6 for Willis. I cant say the same for Edge.

Even this is a bit strong. I honestly did not know what I would find when I went to the PbPs, but what I did find is that it was the exception rather than the rule for him to score with his team within the 10.As for Edge vs. McGahee inside the 5, why do I have to choose here? I will take someone effective within the 5 instead, like a Tiki Barber or a Holmes

I was only using James as an example because he seems to be one of the players that most people have as a top 5 guy. You can choose Barber if you want, but i dont reccomend taking him on the top 5 in your draft. And wait, did you just insinuate that Barber is a good goalline back?

S, BS you need to spend some time with the numbers. Data Dominator is powerful - use it.Here are goalline numbers last year (filtered for minimum 10 goalline rushes.

http://footballguys.com/datadom.php?pt=p&g...l=10&mincat=rsh

It is sorted by fantasy points right now. Import the numbers into Excel and make a new category, TD / rush, and it will become even more revealing.

Tiki: 10 TDs, 15 rushes

Willis: 9 TDs, 25 rushes

Wilked, you should look at more than last years numbers. Barber has never been what i would call a consistent TD guy.

 

[jurb26]

You are simply not reading what I am writing - it's like talking to a wall. Yeah, sometimes rookies improve. Sometimes they don't. It's not something I bank on. And if it were, why bank on it more for this particular rookie than any of the others who were equally if not more impressive to me? What's so hard to understand about that?

What are you talking about, the reasons have been stated by many people, you just don't like them. Thats fine. One reason that you can not disagree with though is that of all the rookie RBs, Willis was the only one that was recovering from that knee injury.

Willis could improve and be a great fantasy back in 2005, and I would be comfortable saying that barring injury, he will be at least a decent fantasy back. What I'm NOT willing to do is ASSUME he will improve in all the areas that make great fantasy backs great based on what I have seen so far. Too many question marks that other, equally talented (yes, I said it) backs don't have.

What exactly does he HAVE to improve on the be a good fantasy back? HE WAS A GOOD FANTASY BACK LAST YEAR. Any improvements are only gravy. I expect them to happen though, you don't. Either way, he already has been a good fantasy back. He ranked top 10 (8th) last year in only 12 starts. How is this not a good fantasy RB?

As for the other issues with him, yeah, I've mentioned all of those before in about 15 other threads. Everybody already knows about them. Unlike some of McGahee supporters around here, I try not to repeat myself when possible (though it is difficult when people ask me questions I've already answered). He doesn't seem to catch the ball (or Buf isn't using him that way). He had a ####ty YPC. He has a young QB leading his offense. There ya go.

Agreed, all good reasons to be down on Willis. Though I am clearly of the opinion he will improve while you seem to not be.

And yes, as outlandish as it may seem, I have reservations about McGahee's knee signifigantly improving from it's status at the end of last year. Again, for the 100th time - at the nd of last year, it had been very nearly TWO FULL YEARS SINCE THE INJURY. How much better is it going to get? How long will it take to get there? So no, I don't think he was at "80%" last year and will be magically at "100%" this year. He was running against Cleveland and Cinncinatti at 3.4 YPC in the middle of December last year, 23 and a half months after he was injured.

Why don't you ask Edge, how long did it take him? Did Willis' injury not look worse than normal to you? I think the extended time to get back should have been expected for Willis and even his supporters from last year, along witht he bashers, siad prior to last season that they did not expect him to be fully recovered. Why has the opinion on this changed just because he played at less than full health?

 

[wilked]

Yeah, but what percent of goalline oppurtunities did he get? plus, me point was was that last year, people were complaining all over these boards that Manning was being selfish, and that James was not getting any goalline carries.

Perception and reality are not always the same.

i agree, my point is this. When the Bills do get inside the 5, its almost a guaranteed 6 for Willis. I cant say the same for Edge.

Even this is a bit strong. I honestly did not know what I would find when I went to the PbPs, but what I did find is that it was the exception rather than the rule for him to score with his team within the 10.As for Edge vs. McGahee inside the 5, why do I have to choose here? I will take someone effective within the 5 instead, like a Tiki Barber or a Holmes

I was only using James as an example because he seems to be one of the players that most people have as a top 5 guy. You can choose Barber if you want, but i dont reccomend taking him on the top 5 in your draft. And wait, did you just insinuate that Barber is a good goalline back?

S, BS you need to spend some time with the numbers. Data Dominator is powerful - use it.Here are goalline numbers last year (filtered for minimum 10 goalline rushes.

http://footballguys.com/datadom.php?pt=p&g...l=10&mincat=rsh

It is sorted by fantasy points right now. Import the numbers into Excel and make a new category, TD / rush, and it will become even more revealing.

Tiki: 10 TDs, 15 rushes

Willis: 9 TDs, 25 rushes

Wilked, you should look at more than last years numbers. Barber has never been what i would call a consistent TD guy.

OK, 2002

8 TDs, 21 rushes

Still getting TDs at a better clip than Willis

 

[jurb26]

Yeah, but what percent of goalline oppurtunities did he get? plus, me point was was that last year, people were complaining all over these boards that Manning was being selfish, and that James was not getting any goalline carries.

Perception and reality are not always the same.

i agree, my point is this. When the Bills do get inside the 5, its almost a guaranteed 6 for Willis. I cant say the same for Edge.

Even this is a bit strong. I honestly did not know what I would find when I went to the PbPs, but what I did find is that it was the exception rather than the rule for him to score with his team within the 10.As for Edge vs. McGahee inside the 5, why do I have to choose here? I will take someone effective within the 5 instead, like a Tiki Barber or a Holmes

I was only using James as an example because he seems to be one of the players that most people have as a top 5 guy. You can choose Barber if you want, but i dont reccomend taking him on the top 5 in your draft. And wait, did you just insinuate that Barber is a good goalline back?

S, BS you need to spend some time with the numbers. Data Dominator is powerful - use it.Here are goalline numbers last year (filtered for minimum 10 goalline rushes.

http://footballguys.com/datadom.php?pt=p&g...l=10&mincat=rsh

It is sorted by fantasy points right now. Import the numbers into Excel and make a new category, TD / rush, and it will become even more revealing.

Tiki: 10 TDs, 15 rushes

Willis: 9 TDs, 25 rushes

Wilked, you should look at more than last years numbers. Barber has never been what i would call a consistent TD guy.

He couldn't make it through Willis' 04 season which was only 12 games long without getting "bored". What would make you think he could make it through multiple seasons for Tiki?

 

[wilked]

Yeah, but what percent of goalline oppurtunities did he get? plus, me point was was that last year, people were complaining all over these boards that Manning was being selfish, and that James was not getting any goalline carries.

Perception and reality are not always the same.

i agree, my point is this. When the Bills do get inside the 5, its almost a guaranteed 6 for Willis. I cant say the same for Edge.

Even this is a bit strong. I honestly did not know what I would find when I went to the PbPs, but what I did find is that it was the exception rather than the rule for him to score with his team within the 10.As for Edge vs. McGahee inside the 5, why do I have to choose here? I will take someone effective within the 5 instead, like a Tiki Barber or a Holmes

I was only using James as an example because he seems to be one of the players that most people have as a top 5 guy. You can choose Barber if you want, but i dont reccomend taking him on the top 5 in your draft. And wait, did you just insinuate that Barber is a good goalline back?

S, BS you need to spend some time with the numbers. Data Dominator is powerful - use it.Here are goalline numbers last year (filtered for minimum 10 goalline rushes.

http://footballguys.com/datadom.php?pt=p&g...l=10&mincat=rsh

It is sorted by fantasy points right now. Import the numbers into Excel and make a new category, TD / rush, and it will become even more revealing.

Tiki: 10 TDs, 15 rushes

Willis: 9 TDs, 25 rushes

Wilked, you should look at more than last years numbers. Barber has never been what i would call a consistent TD guy.

He couldn't make it through Willis' 04 season which was only 12 games long without getting "bored". What would make you think he could make it through multiple seasons for Tiki?

Jurb:Make a cohesive argument with any statistics, and I will be impressed

 

[jurb26]

Jurb:

Make a cohesive argument with any statistics, and I will be impressed

Why, you still haven't.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Yeah, but what percent of goalline oppurtunities did he get? plus, me point was was that last year, people were complaining all over these boards that Manning was being selfish, and that James was not getting any goalline carries.

Perception and reality are not always the same.

i agree, my point is this. When the Bills do get inside the 5, its almost a guaranteed 6 for Willis. I cant say the same for Edge.

Even this is a bit strong. I honestly did not know what I would find when I went to the PbPs, but what I did find is that it was the exception rather than the rule for him to score with his team within the 10.As for Edge vs. McGahee inside the 5, why do I have to choose here? I will take someone effective within the 5 instead, like a Tiki Barber or a Holmes

I was only using James as an example because he seems to be one of the players that most people have as a top 5 guy. You can choose Barber if you want, but i dont reccomend taking him on the top 5 in your draft. And wait, did you just insinuate that Barber is a good goalline back?

S, BS you need to spend some time with the numbers. Data Dominator is powerful - use it.Here are goalline numbers last year (filtered for minimum 10 goalline rushes.

http://footballguys.com/datadom.php?pt=p&g...l=10&mincat=rsh

It is sorted by fantasy points right now. Import the numbers into Excel and make a new category, TD / rush, and it will become even more revealing.

Tiki: 10 TDs, 15 rushes

Willis: 9 TDs, 25 rushes

Wilked, you should look at more than last years numbers. Barber has never been what i would call a consistent TD guy.

OK, 2002

8 TDs, 21 rushes

Still getting TDs at a better clip than Willis

Tiki Barber Seasons played - 8

Seasons with double digit TD's - 2

% of season with double digit TD's scored - 25%

number of season with 4 or less TD's - 5

 

[wilked]

Yeah, but what percent of goalline oppurtunities did he get? plus, me point was was that last year, people were complaining all over these boards that Manning was being selfish, and that James was not getting any goalline carries.

Perception and reality are not always the same.

i agree, my point is this. When the Bills do get inside the 5, its almost a guaranteed 6 for Willis. I cant say the same for Edge.

Even this is a bit strong. I honestly did not know what I would find when I went to the PbPs, but what I did find is that it was the exception rather than the rule for him to score with his team within the 10.As for Edge vs. McGahee inside the 5, why do I have to choose here? I will take someone effective within the 5 instead, like a Tiki Barber or a Holmes

I was only using James as an example because he seems to be one of the players that most people have as a top 5 guy. You can choose Barber if you want, but i dont reccomend taking him on the top 5 in your draft. And wait, did you just insinuate that Barber is a good goalline back?

S, BS you need to spend some time with the numbers. Data Dominator is powerful - use it.Here are goalline numbers last year (filtered for minimum 10 goalline rushes.

http://footballguys.com/datadom.php?pt=p&g...l=10&mincat=rsh

It is sorted by fantasy points right now. Import the numbers into Excel and make a new category, TD / rush, and it will become even more revealing.

Tiki: 10 TDs, 15 rushes

Willis: 9 TDs, 25 rushes

Wilked, you should look at more than last years numbers. Barber has never been what i would call a consistent TD guy.

OK, 2002

8 TDs, 21 rushes

Still getting TDs at a better clip than Willis

Tiki Barber Seasons played - 8

Seasons with double digit TD's - 2

% of season with double digit TD's scored - 25%

number of season with 4 or less TD's - 5

How does this relate to goalline effectiveness?

 

[wilked]

Jurb:

Make a cohesive argument with any statistics, and I will be impressed

Why, you still haven't.

Good one buddyGo back to playing Madden Online, I bet you can roll up some nice statistics there

 

[jurb26]

This may be usefull:

http://sports.iwon.com/nfl/stats/league/pe...runinside3.html

 

[joffer]

Tiki Barber

Seasons played - 8

Seasons with double digit TD's - 2

% of season with double digit TD's scored - 25%

number of season with 4 or less TD's - 5

what kind of BS arbitrary stats are those? Goal line effectiveness is about how a guy performs when given the opportunity.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Um, who was talking about Goalline effectiveness?

 

[joffer]

Um, who was talking about Goalline effectiveness?

what exactly did you mean when you said

did you just insinuate that Tiki was a good goal line back?

Edit: replace imply with insinuate

 

[Burning Sensation]

Um, who was talking about Goalline effectiveness?

what exactly did you mean when you said

did you just imply that Tiki was a good goal line back?

A back that an FF'er can count on for 10+ TD's year in and year out((ie Priest Holmes, Shaun Alexander etc.) Although i probably could have worded it a bit differently.

 

[jurb26]

I don't really see how it matter what Barber or James or whoever did. The bottom line is that EVERY RB in that makes it into the top 5 will need to score a lot of TDs. Saying that Willis is "dependent" on them is true if he is to be a top 5 RB. However, it is true of EVERY OTHER RB IN THE NFL TOO.

 

[ko-jack]

When did RBs getting ops in the redzone or scoring postion become a bad thing for FF players?

It's not. But because McGahee won't compile receiving yardage totals like other backs being in the top 5 will depends on him getting significantly more TDs than the likes of Barber, Deuce, Green, and Portis (with LT, Alexander, Holmes, and Edge IMO being in the top 5). He saw the third most looks inside the 5 last year. Even in a full 16 game season, he couldn't hope for much more than what he got last year.

What makes you think this?

in order to gain receiving yards, you must catch passes.

 

[Burning Sensation]

When did RBs getting ops in the redzone or scoring postion become a bad thing for FF players?

It's not. But because McGahee won't compile receiving yardage totals like other backs being in the top 5 will depends on him getting significantly more TDs than the likes of Barber, Deuce, Green, and Portis (with LT, Alexander, Holmes, and Edge IMO being in the top 5). He saw the third most looks inside the 5 last year. Even in a full 16 game season, he couldn't hope for much more than what he got last year.

What makes you think this?

in order to gain receiving yards, you must catch passes.

What makes you think he wont catch any passes?

 

[jurb26]

When did RBs getting ops in the redzone or scoring postion become a bad thing for FF players?

It's not. But because McGahee won't compile receiving yardage totals like other backs being in the top 5 will depends on him getting significantly more TDs than the likes of Barber, Deuce, Green, and Portis (with LT, Alexander, Holmes, and Edge IMO being in the top 5). He saw the third most looks inside the 5 last year. Even in a full 16 game season, he couldn't hope for much more than what he got last year.

What makes you think this?

in order to gain receiving yards, you must catch passes.

What makes you think he wont catch any passes?

Nothing about Willis' profile would suggest he can not catch passes. Actually he is said to be natural at it: "but his hands appear natural."http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/mcgahee_willis

I agree that Buf does not seem to throw to the RBs a great deal, but Willis is certianly capable of it if they choose to.

 

[Burning Sensation]

When did RBs getting ops in the redzone or scoring postion become a bad thing for FF players?

It's not. But because McGahee won't compile receiving yardage totals like other backs being in the top 5 will depends on him getting significantly more TDs than the likes of Barber, Deuce, Green, and Portis (with LT, Alexander, Holmes, and Edge IMO being in the top 5). He saw the third most looks inside the 5 last year. Even in a full 16 game season, he couldn't hope for much more than what he got last year.

What makes you think this?

in order to gain receiving yards, you must catch passes.

What makes you think he wont catch any passes?

Nothing about Willis' profile would suggest he can not catch passes. Actually he is said to be natural at it: "but his hands appear natural."http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/mcgahee_willis

I agree that Buf does not seem to throw to the RBs a great deal, but Willis is certianly capable of it if they choose to.

I think alot of that had to do with Bledsoe, who loved to overthrow WR's or take sacks. I suspect the Bills will use Mcgahee in the passing game more to take some pressure off Losman. Also, lets us not forget Mcgahee had a 60+ yard receiving TD called back, if the ref is looking the other way, you guys who go strictly off of stats would be loving Willis.

 

[Snotbubbles]

(Snotbubbles @ Jun 4 2005, 09:56 AM)

When did RBs getting ops in the redzone or scoring postion become a bad thing for FF players?

It's not. But because McGahee won't compile receiving yardage totals like other backs being in the top 5 will depends on him getting significantly more TDs than the likes of Barber, Deuce, Green, and Portis (with LT, Alexander, Holmes, and Edge IMO being in the top 5). He saw the third most looks inside the 5 last year. Even in a full 16 game season, he couldn't hope for much more than what he got last year.

*

What makes you think this?

Receiving from 2004D. Davis (15 games): 84 targets-69 receptions (4.6/game)

LT: 66 targets-53 receptions (3.53/game)

Barber: 78 targets-52 receptions (3.25/games)

Edge: 60 targets-51 receptions (3.19/game)

Holmes (8 games): 25 targets-19 receptions (2.38/game)

Portis (15 games): 56 targets-40 receptions (2.67/game)

Green (15 games): 51 targets-40 receptions (2.67/game)

Martin: 48 targets-41 receptions (2.56/game)

McCallister (14 games): 48 targets-34 receptions (2.43/game)

J. Jones (8 games): 26 targets-17 receptions (2.13/game)

K. Jones (15 games): 41 targets-28 receptions (1.87/game) [note: I really could broke this down to 13 games since he was hurt in the Philly game and didn't play much in that game or the GB game 2 weeks later. In 13 games he avg. 2.08 receptions/gm]

McGahee: 35 targets-22 receptions (20 receptions in the last 12 games) (1.67/game)

Alexander: 38 targets-23 receptions (1.44/game)

 

[ko-jack]

When did RBs getting ops in the redzone or scoring postion become a bad thing for FF players?

It's not. But because McGahee won't compile receiving yardage totals like other backs being in the top 5 will depends on him getting significantly more TDs than the likes of Barber, Deuce, Green, and Portis (with LT, Alexander, Holmes, and Edge IMO being in the top 5). He saw the third most looks inside the 5 last year. Even in a full 16 game season, he couldn't hope for much more than what he got last year.

What makes you think this?

in order to gain receiving yards, you must catch passes.

What makes you think he wont catch any passes?

Nothing about Willis' profile would suggest he can not catch passes. Actually he is said to be natural at it: "but his hands appear natural."http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/mcgahee_willis

I agree that Buf does not seem to throw to the RBs a great deal, but Willis is certianly capable of it if they choose to.

I think alot of that had to do with Bledsoe, who loved to overthrow WR's or take sacks. I suspect the Bills will use Mcgahee in the passing game more to take some pressure off Losman. Also, lets us not forget Mcgahee had a 60+ yard receiving TD called back, if the ref is looking the other way, you guys who go strictly off of stats would be loving Willis.

You can IF your way to anything. fact is, he didnt do squat as a wr in the passing game last year. this is probably do to the fact that the bills were 9-3 in the strecth of games that willis started. chances are, they wont win games like that this year. (12-4 for a .750 win percentage or a full season) so i guess he could do more as a receiver, but wouldnt that mean less opportuntiy to run clock?

lastly, when i look at the offenses the giants (barber), packers (green), holmes (chiefs) they arent what buffalo runs. and willis doesnt seem like the type of back to catch 50+ balls.

in point per catch leagues, devaule willis

with that being said, 2 more hours and i can buy my willis mcghaee 3rd jersey. b-lo is breaking them out in a few hrs.

scroll down a lil

http://billsinsider.com/