He’s a JAG, low WAR player. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have fantasy value though
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RB Zach Charbonnet, SEA (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
I will concede that we, in the fantasy community, underrate RBs who get what’s blocked + a little more (a la Charbs). We’re wowed by players like Walker who get chunk yards and we want them fed.
It’s also true that coaches get frustrated with RBs like Walker because they can make poor decisions and try to do too much. And, they end up losing touches to players like Charbs because of it.
It’s also true that coaches get frustrated with RBs like Walker because they can make poor decisions and try to do too much. And, they end up losing touches to players like Charbs because of it.
Zow
Footballguy
I don't necessarily think Charbs is JAG.Cool. Charbs is a JAG, like David Montgomery. Respectfully disagree otherwise.
Respectful disagreement is what makes this game fun.
He is good at everything and great at nothing. I mean that in a complimentary way. Have lots of shares of him. I imagine any NFL team would want him on their roster.
But let's not pretend he's a future HOFer.
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VikingFrog
Footballguy
Maybe it’s the highschool editor-in-chief of my highschool newspaper in me… but I don’t think you need to put an “a” before JAG.
Charbs is not a Just a Guy.
Vs.
Charbs is not Just a Guy.
LawFitz
Footballguy
With acronyms rules change. It's not a RB, it's an RB.
And Charbonett is not a JAG.
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LawFitz
Footballguy
RBs like Charbs and Monty can keep RBs like Gibbs and Walker fed... By helping keep them on the field late against tired defenses. This can be symbiotic.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
When I was a kid, they used to show reruns of CHIPS on a local station, calling it "CHIPS Patrol."
The show was technically called "California Highway Patrol Patrol," and it bothered me.
rockaction
Footballguy
Full disclosure that I roster Walker but also full disclosure that I think the arguments are too heated and that I thought they were both good backs . . .
But these stats aren't going away.
https://x.com/ScottBarrettDFB
Scott Barrett
https://x.com/ScottBarrettDFB
@ScottBarrettDFB
RB Leaders in Yards From Scrimmage per Touch
@FantasyPtsData
1. David Montgomery (6.70)
2. Bijan Robinson (6.61)
3. Jonathan Taylor (6.34)...
15. Kenneth Walker (4.72)*...
Worst/ 30. Zach Charbonnet (2.46)
** * 16.0 touches per game** 13.7 touches per game
I don't like per carry when RBs have different roles so then I went to next gen stats and some more ugliness
nextgenstats.nfl.com
Charbonnet is 37th out of 38 qualifying backs in rushing yards over expectation. He gains -47 yards compared to what he should gain
Walker meets expectations and is +2
The efficiency stat they have (EFF) measures the total yards you run per play and is the measure of how North-South you are (lower distances show North-South, higher is East-West):
Charbonnet has highest distance traveled and therefore the least efficient runner with 6.92
Walker's is 4.78
Charbonnet faces 8 men in the box at a 41.03% rate, Walker is at a 41.38% rate
But these stats aren't going away.
https://x.com/ScottBarrettDFB
Scott Barrett
https://x.com/ScottBarrettDFB
@ScottBarrettDFB
RB Leaders in Yards From Scrimmage per Touch
@FantasyPtsData
1. David Montgomery (6.70)
2. Bijan Robinson (6.61)
3. Jonathan Taylor (6.34)...
15. Kenneth Walker (4.72)*...
Worst/ 30. Zach Charbonnet (2.46)
** * 16.0 touches per game** 13.7 touches per game
I don't like per carry when RBs have different roles so then I went to next gen stats and some more ugliness
NGS | NFL Next Gen Stats
NFL’s Next Gen Stats captures real time location data, speed and acceleration for every player, every play on every inch of the field. Discover Next Gen Stats News, Charts, and Statistics.
nextgenstats.nfl.com
Charbonnet is 37th out of 38 qualifying backs in rushing yards over expectation. He gains -47 yards compared to what he should gain
Walker meets expectations and is +2
The efficiency stat they have (EFF) measures the total yards you run per play and is the measure of how North-South you are (lower distances show North-South, higher is East-West):
Charbonnet has highest distance traveled and therefore the least efficient runner with 6.92
Walker's is 4.78
Charbonnet faces 8 men in the box at a 41.03% rate, Walker is at a 41.38% rate
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Walker is better Overall
Charbs is great at bulldozing, but isn't special anywhere else. Could he handle the rock as RB1 if injury... ofcourse.
But im pretty sure next yr, when they have to commit to 1 of them contract wise, it will be KW
Charbs is great at bulldozing, but isn't special anywhere else. Could he handle the rock as RB1 if injury... ofcourse.
But im pretty sure next yr, when they have to commit to 1 of them contract wise, it will be KW
O line issues for both and/or fit with blocking scheme and stacked box rate. You want Brown in space of course, not trying to grind.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
All anyone has to do is go back and watch the “TD run that wasn’t” (called back due to a completely irrelevant penalty across the field) where he juked not one, but 2 defenders out of their shoes on back to back jukes, and you’ll come away as impressed as with any run you’ve seen all year by any RB.
That was elite. He might not be the fastest dude or have the most power, but if you go watch that run & come back and tell me he’s a JAG or lacks talent, I’ll simply look to others for better quality FF opinions from then on.
That run was a work of art, and I said as much in the in-game topic when it happened.
That was elite. He might not be the fastest dude or have the most power, but if you go watch that run & come back and tell me he’s a JAG or lacks talent, I’ll simply look to others for better quality FF opinions from then on.
That run was a work of art, and I said as much in the in-game topic when it happened.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Preposterous.
Watch that run I just mentioned. See him run 11 yards, with 2 separate defenders squaring him up for a tackle only to grab air and fall over - one right after the other.
That was special. If you can’t see it I don’t know what to tell you, but that seems like a you issue.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Bud this whole thread is full of data proving my point, the guy is a decent RB and yeah... he had a 1 nice run which was called back. But many, many of his earlier runs where kinda of meh... thats KW3 out gained him by so much
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Team Walker here. Charbs is a very good rb. Strong. Fairly elusive. Just solid everywhere. Where Walker just stomps him is quickness. Walkers agility then his superior quickness is very evident to me. Charbs just doesn't have that gear Walker has. They are a good compliment. More importantly the conversation makes a great debate.
rockaction
Footballguy
LawFitz
Footballguy
Agreed. But he has better vision, toughness and instincts as a football player. And while he isn't the same super athlete, he's not a turd. Did you see the subtle well-timed jukes he threw to get into the endzone last weekend? They were a bit slow, but timing beats speed. Kid does everything good or better, where as K9 does a few things elite and a lot of other RB stuff not so much.
When I said that Charbonnet is JAG, I don’t mean that he sucks. I just see him as a low WAR player; that is, he’s readily replaceable in the lineup. By that definition, most RBs are JAG. Along with longevity/ injury risk, that’s why RBs aren’t drafted highly and don’t command huge contracts.
Note: In the MLB, there are only ~130 positional players with positive WAR. That’s slightly more than half of starters. So you can be a legit starter and still be a JAG
Note: In the MLB, there are only ~130 positional players with positive WAR. That’s slightly more than half of starters. So you can be a legit starter and still be a JAG
LawFitz
Footballguy
I am not on team Charb or team K9 this year. I had drafted Charb but cut him in a short roster pinch last week and a leaguemate swooped with the bidness.
I like 'em both and if I were Mike McD, I'd use them like Sonic & Knuckles in motown. Oh wait, that is exactly what he is doing.
I like 'em both and if I were Mike McD, I'd use them like Sonic & Knuckles in motown. Oh wait, that is exactly what he is doing.
I wouldnt say that.
for me a JAG can be a guy who is decent at everything but has no defining trait that makes them special.
a JAG can be a decent starter but they need the team around them to perform to be productive. ie. the blocking needs to be there, the QB play needs to be good enough that the other team wont key on the run..... the list I'm sure goes on.
but I think you get what I'm trying to say here.
the other defining thing about JAG is they dont typically put up special stats.
I watched a couple games last year, and I felt that Walker does a lot of little things that make him better than Charbs. many of those things dont show up on a scoresheet but he does them.
as for Charbs, I occasionally see him flash. I think there is some talent there. but the stats still say hes a JAG.
96 yards in 39 rush attempts for a 2.5 YPC average isnt gonna win any awards and (more importantly) its not gonna get him more playing time. dude needs to actually perform on the field consistently. I get that he will occasionally make a move that will make a person think he can be special. but he needs to take it to the next level. hes not doing it consistently enough.
I fully admit, the sample size is perhaps too small to say for sure. he ran for over 4 YPC last year. but the line In seattle is not great either so maybe that plays a part. but once again, if he cannot overcome the subpar O line, that likely fits him into the JAG category. Walker is the guy he needs to beat out for a job and hes getting 4.2 yards per carry behind that same line. Dude needs to be better if he want to be the starter. Thats the fact of it. It does not matter how good he looks when he runs. the production at this point isnt there.
perhaps that turf toe you guys were speaking of has hindered him. The stats are considerably worse than they were last year, so thats an argument I'd accept. but hes still not gonna win a starting job like this.
I dont deny that if they work with him he could eventually be a starter. Its just not likely to happen this year.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Agreed. Charbs is a legit NFL RB.
rockaction
Footballguy
Everybody in the Seattle backfield is pretty. Matt Harmon at Yahoo!:
"When it comes to the running backs, I hate to break it to fantasy gamers, but both Kenneth Walker III and Zach Charbonnet have their roles to play.
Walker is clearly the more explosive back, overall. Anyone with eyeballs can see that. He’s gifted in ways that Chabonnet just cannot match, and he’s taken to the outside zone system well. Walker has been a menace on runs through the C and D gaps (off the tackle) this season with 6.41 yards per carry, per Fantasy Points Data. On outside zone runs, in particular, he has a 5.41 yards per carry to 1.27 for Charbonnet. There’s just no comparison between these two guys when it comes to breakaway runs.
However, on inside zone runs, Charbonnet has a 52.4% success rate, which dwarfs Walker’s 33.3%. The Seahawks haven’t just been running the old Shanahan/Kubiak hits in the ground game either, as they’ve mixed in some gap runs, which have been quite productive for this team. On those plays, there is little to no discernible difference in the efficiency metrics for the two backs.
On top of that, Charbonnet has been on the field in obvious passing situations and late downs. Charbonnet has played 36 snaps on third or fourth down this season and run 16 routes to seven and four, respectively, for Walker. The team just trusts Charbonnet in these situations and this is the primary reason he’s not going away."
sports.yahoo.com
"When it comes to the running backs, I hate to break it to fantasy gamers, but both Kenneth Walker III and Zach Charbonnet have their roles to play.
Walker is clearly the more explosive back, overall. Anyone with eyeballs can see that. He’s gifted in ways that Chabonnet just cannot match, and he’s taken to the outside zone system well. Walker has been a menace on runs through the C and D gaps (off the tackle) this season with 6.41 yards per carry, per Fantasy Points Data. On outside zone runs, in particular, he has a 5.41 yards per carry to 1.27 for Charbonnet. There’s just no comparison between these two guys when it comes to breakaway runs.
However, on inside zone runs, Charbonnet has a 52.4% success rate, which dwarfs Walker’s 33.3%. The Seahawks haven’t just been running the old Shanahan/Kubiak hits in the ground game either, as they’ve mixed in some gap runs, which have been quite productive for this team. On those plays, there is little to no discernible difference in the efficiency metrics for the two backs.
On top of that, Charbonnet has been on the field in obvious passing situations and late downs. Charbonnet has played 36 snaps on third or fourth down this season and run 16 routes to seven and four, respectively, for Walker. The team just trusts Charbonnet in these situations and this is the primary reason he’s not going away."
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RaidersAreOne
Footballguy
Charbonnet is a RB1 if/when Walker gets hurt. It's nice he has some standalone value right now due to all the goalline work but man if Walker ever gets dinged up or even moved .... 
Birdie048
Footballguy
2026 --> likely separation of these RBs ...Charbonnet is a RB1 if/when Walker gets hurt. It's nice he has some standalone value right now due to all the goalline work but man if Walker ever gets dinged up or even moved ....
RaidersAreOne
Footballguy
How are you guys viewing Charbs in dynasty or as a keeper option? Walker's contract is up after this year and Charbs could/should be in line to take over the back field entirely if Walker were to walk (Seems kindof likely at this point imo).
he's a JAG, and they will most likely bring someone else in (draft/FA) to start, with Charbs prob still retaining SY work
Cautiously optimistic in the leagues I have both of them I’m going to go from zero to 2 starting RB’s between them.
joey
Footballguy
Same.
Obvious this staff thinks highly of him. He put up good numbers replacing Walker last year. Not so much this year though.
I don't see how Walker resigns there. So Charbonnet will be the guy it would appear.
TampaMike19
Footballguy
Feeling good about Charbs being the 60-70% back next year. James Conner comes to my mind with him
