Real Collusion (1 Viewer)

[ghostguy123]

I assume this is a redraft league??? Trades like this are why redraft leagues shouldnt have trades in the first place.

 

[ghostguy123]

And really, why are some of you people hellbent on being able to "prove" collusion.

If I am walking down the street and see my neighbor kill my other neighbor with a gun, look at me, wave and say hi, then run away........................I can't "prove" he killed the other guy. All I can do is say I saw him do it............not unlike this trade.

I don't think a trade has to be collusion to be reversed anyway. A horrid trade that drastically changes the outcome of the league, where it clearly benefits a team in contention and is just dumb for a team out of it, is good enough for a reversal for me, regardless of the intent of both parties.

 

[Mario Kart]

What an awesome way to ruin a league and a possible friendship. You should be very proud of yourself and the other seven league mates. Congrats!!!!

And, what are you doing with the $800?

We are proud, we handled the cheating situation as painlessly as possible.

Should we refund the 3-7 team for cheating?

Since you are guilty of thievery, yes you should. Your league is the lowest of the low. An 8-boy league... lol.

Wow this guy just found a way out of a losing bet, cheat. That's gold Jerry! Gold!

Wow, I'm glad I'm not your "friend". Stealing my $400 is net cause for something to occur. Good luck finding new friends.

 

[ghostguy123]

I read a bit more...........you kicked them out??

Even though this trade was as horrid as itt gets, it's simple. Reverse the trade and move on. Kicking them out and taking their money for the year or whatever is just.............wrong in every possible way.

For all you know the guy in contention had nothing to do with this process and the other guy just felt like being an ###. In which case, reverse the trade and move on. Kicking them out?? Dumb. Barring some history of stuff like this, just....wow

 

[TheStig]

Everyone go easy on the poster, he is looking for advice because he is in a bad spot.

My advice would be this, revoke the trade, even though I am usually not in favor of this, tell the two owner this is a group of friends and there is no reason to act like this. We all win some and we lose some and we play for fun and the money is a bonus. Give the league an option and exclude yourself and the 2 members involved from voting. The options would be this.

1. Overturn the trade give the guys a warning that if anything like this happens again they will be booted from the league and probably ruin friendships and the league you guys have played in for 9 years

2. Overturn the trade and make a rule that any trade that if the commish deems abnormally unfair that it will go to a vote. During this time the other 7 or 9 owners will vote on the trade for 24 hours and the majority rules. However the trade has to be very bad, and some how you need to determine what makes it bad. I wouldn't recommend this option because it gives one person too much power.

3. Overturn the trade and put both members on probation and as part of the punishment they can't trade with each other for the rest of this year and all of next year.

4. Overturn the trade and boot both players from the league, find new guys or new friends next year.

These are just some ideas, I don't envy the position you have been put in and wish you the best of luck.

I like these for most situations but these guys were looking to stack the deck in order to take $4000 from their "friends". A $1000 is larceny. I think when two guys looked at a pot of money first and their friends second, they should be kicked out. So nothing less than option 4 for me.

 

[TheStig]

I read a bit more...........you kicked them out??

Even though this trade was as horrid as itt gets, it's simple. Reverse the trade and move on. Kicking them out and taking their money for the year or whatever is just.............wrong in every possible way.

For all you know the guy in contention had nothing to do with this process and the other guy just felt like being an ###. In which case, reverse the trade and move on. Kicking them out?? Dumb. Barring some history of stuff like this, just....wow

All true but it is a $4000 pot. If there is any doubt about their intentions they must be kicked out. Perhaps lower the pot next time and make the league more about the fun and less about the money.Refund their money and boot them.

 

[fantasycurse42]

What an awesome way to ruin a league and a possible friendship. You should be very proud of yourself and the other seven league mates. Congrats!!!!

And, what are you doing with the $800?

We are proud, we handled the cheating situation as painlessly as possible.

Should we refund the 3-7 team for cheating?

Since you are guilty of thievery, yes you should. Your league is the lowest of the low. An 8-boy league... lol.

Wow this guy just found a way out of a losing bet, cheat. That's gold Jerry! Gold!

Wow, I'm glad I'm not your "friend". Stealing my $400 is net cause for something to occur. Good luck finding new friends.

With friends like me, who needs enemies, amirite? So I guess it is okay for you to steal, but then not face repercussions when caught, gotcha... Now your point of view is a little more clear, thanks for contributing.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Wild guess here... You don't think there is enough evidence to call Aaron Hernandez a murderer.

Wild guess, you think he should have been convicted and fried the day he was arrested?

What does either have to do with this thread?

Ummmm, yes your guess is accurate! I streamed the arraignment on the day he was arrested. With the mountains of circumstantial evidence that the DA presented (which doesn't mean anything to you apparently), it wasn't difficult to determine that AH is sociopath who can orchestrate an execution for the smallest of reasons.

I also have a sidebet with a coworker where my money is on AH being the actual triggerman.

 

[yellowdog]

- You changed your playoffs from 6 teams to 4

- The 6-4 cheater would have been 1 of the 6

- One of the remaining 8 teams would have been 1 of the 6, but not 1 of the 4

- Your 5th place team is getting screwed, how are they gonna feel about that?

ETA: If you kept the $800 in the pot, why not just keep it a 6 team playoff?

 

[buck naked]

I say I hate stupid "collusion" threads.

 

[KCitons]

Wild guess here... You don't think there is enough evidence to call Aaron Hernandez a murderer.

Wild guess, you think he should have been convicted and fried the day he was arrested?

What does either have to do with this thread?

Ummmm, yes your guess is accurate! I streamed the arraignment on the day he was arrested. With the mountains of circumstantial evidence that the DA presented (which doesn't mean anything to you apparently), it wasn't difficult to determine that AH is sociopath who can orchestrate an execution for the smallest of reasons.

I also have a sidebet with a coworker where my money is on AH being the actual triggerman.

I guess we are done here. In case others can't see, the OP is on a fishing trip. (or an acid trip)

it won't be long before he tells us all about his life accomplishments and the fact that his 2 year old son has more money than us. We are all type A losers and should just accept whatever he does as awesome.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Wild guess here... You don't think there is enough evidence to call Aaron Hernandez a murderer.

Wild guess, you think he should have been convicted and fried the day he was arrested?What does either have to do with this thread?

Ummmm, yes your guess is accurate! I streamed the arraignment on the day he was arrested. With the mountains of circumstantial evidence that the DA presented (which doesn't mean anything to you apparently), it wasn't difficult to determine that AH is sociopath who can orchestrate an execution for the smallest of reasons.

I also have a sidebet with a coworker where my money is on AH being the actual triggerman.

I guess we are done here. In case others can't see, the OP is on a fishing trip. (or an acid trip) it won't be long before he tells us all about his life accomplishments and the fact that his 2 year old son has more money than us. We are all type A losers and should just accept whatever he does as awesome.

HAHAHAHAHA

He's only one, FYI, & with the information at hand, I think his opinion is prob more valid in just about anything than yours... I'm happy you can come to that conclusion based off of the above.

So what I'm really wondering is how does one become so stupid, like was it a natural progression into this state, or have you always been like this? When you sit down and review bills and calculate financials, do you get a headache?

Also, you didn't respond to my statement above, although your response speaks volumes. You should head up the free AH fan club. Write him a letter, I hear he replies

 

[KCitons]

 

[Bayhawks]

You're probably going to be looking for 2 new owners next year, or playing in an 8-team league.

You think they were cheating, and they probably were. However, you don't know that. Any of these things is possible:

1) Maybe the 6-4 team threw out a BS offer, hoping it would be start trade discussion, but the 3-7 guy figured "F it, I'm out of it, why not give my buddy a helping hand?" That is bad form, IMO, but it most definitely isn't collusion. 6-4 team can't believe that his low-ball offer is accepted, but is obviously happy about it.

2) Maybe the 3-7 guy has been sending out trade requests, and only the 6-4 owner responded to him, and this is the best offer he could get. It's a s- - t offer, but if your deadline is coming up, maybe he thinks he needs to "shake things up" and try to make a run. Again, not the best line of thinking, but possible.

3) Maybe the 3-7 team doesn't really like the team who is right behind the 6-4 team, and figures "if I'm not going to make the playoffs, I'll try to keep owner C who I hate from making them either;" so he sends this lopsided offer to the 6-4 team. 6-4 teams looks at it, can't believe his luck, and hits "accept" as fast as he can.

In any of these scenarios, there is no "collusion." There's no secret agreement between the 2 parties, there's no deal to split the winnings. If any of those scenarios is what happened you've stolen $400 dollars from one (or two) of your friends. There's no way there coming back to the league. If it was me, you're giving me back my $400, as well. You want to kick me out, (assuming you're the commish), nothing I can do about that, but you aren't keeping the money I paid to play FF if you're not going to let me, you know, play FF.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

You can never prove collusion.

While you may not be able to absolutely "prove" collusion, just like in a criminal proceeding strong circumstantial evidence can be enough to convict a defendant.

The circumstantial evidence presented here is certainly strong:

1. A 3-7 team trades with a 6-4 team;

2. The parties are best friends;

3. While we never truly know what's going to happen going forward, is there really anyone that would make this trade on the Cutler side, after what's been happening so far this season?

4. The "defendant" is refusing to testify on his behalf, which may be his right, but his silence says a lot.

This is one situation where a collusion claim is at least a legit - and the guy trading for Cutler better defend himself soon.

 

[Amused to Death]

One of my long time leagues is very similar to this. Group of friends who have been playing in leagues together for over 20 years. If this situation had happened, the outcome would have been the same. You're out. The only difference I see is our rules explicitly states it. Fortunately its never come up.

For people piling on the OP, remember the league voted unanimously. If it had been any other 2 owners, I'm sure the 2 who got kicked out would have voted the same way themselves.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

If I am walking down the street and see my neighbor kill my other neighbor with a gun, look at me, wave and say hi, then run away........................I can't "prove" he killed the other guy.

 

[Bayhawks]

For people piling on the OP, remember the league voted unanimously. If it had been any other 2 owners, I'm sure the 2 who got kicked out would have voted the same way themselves.

Not for nothing, but how do we know this? Because the OP said it was so? The same OP who refused to answer questions about his league rules and other players on the roster of the two trading teams? The same OP who resorted to insults and name-calling directed at the one poster who disagreed with him?

I don't see him as a very reliable source. Furthermore, he obviously doesn't understand what the term unanimous means. I can't believe that the 2 teams involved voted to disallow their own trade and "donate" their $400 to the league, so it couldn't have been unanimous.

 

[Amused to Death]

For people piling on the OP, remember the league voted unanimously. If it had been any other 2 owners, I'm sure the 2 who got kicked out would have voted the same way themselves.

Not for nothing, but how do we know this? Because the OP said it was so? The same OP who refused to answer questions about his league rules and other players on the roster of the two trading teams? The same OP who resorted to insults and name-calling directed at the one poster who disagreed with him?

I don't see him as a very reliable source. Furthermore, he obviously doesn't understand what the term unanimous means. I can't believe that the 2 teams involved voted to disallow their own trade and "donate" their $400 to the league, so it couldn't have been unanimous.

You're correct, I'm going by the information posted. But the 2 offenders don't get a vote. That much should be obvious.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

While I disagree with kicking them out, at least I see the argument. But keeping their money? I'm sorry that is absurd. The OP keeps talking about a punishment for "cheating". They didn't commit a crime, where the league gets to extract some sort of civil penalty for their misdeeds. Keeping the money of the entrants who have no chance to compete is stealing.

 

[FF Wiseguy]

You can never prove collusion.

While you may not be able to absolutely "prove" collusion, just like in a criminal proceeding strong circumstantial evidence can be enough to convict a defendant.

The circumstantial evidence presented here is certainly strong:

1. A 3-7 team trades with a 6-4 team;

2. The parties are best friends;

3. While we never truly know what's going to happen going forward, is there really anyone that would make this trade on the Cutler side, after what's been happening so far this season?

4. The "defendant" is refusing to testify on his behalf, which may be his right, but his silence says a lot.

This is one situation where a collusion claim is at least a legit - and the guy trading for Cutler better defend himself soon.

You used the first part of my post, and ignored the rest, which basically agrees with everything you said. But I think there are bigger fish to fry in this thread, so I'll let it slide.

I disagree with disqualifying the owners. Disallow the trade, absolutely, and don't invite them back next year. But by disqualifying without a rule that allowed for doing so, you open yourself up to the possibility of people wanting to disqualify someone for doing something shady every time. Probably unlikely to happen, but you probably that the same about two owners trying to screw everyone over.

Also, you got lucky that it was two owners, which makes it easier schedule-wise. What if next year, a guy roster tanks and you have to disqualify just one person? Makes things much more complicated.

 

[Chaka]

Kicking them out was fine but keeping their money was a #### move.

You were presented the opportunity to be a better person and you failed.

 

[fantasycurse42]

For people piling on the OP, remember the league voted unanimously. If it had been any other 2 owners, I'm sure the 2 who got kicked out would have voted the same way themselves.

Not for nothing, but how do we know this? Because the OP said it was so? The same OP who refused to answer questions about his league rules and other players on the roster of the two trading teams? The same OP who resorted to insults and name-calling directed at the one poster who disagreed with him? I don't see him as a very reliable source. Furthermore, he obviously doesn't understand what the term unanimous means. I can't believe that the 2 teams involved voted to disallow their own trade and "donate" their $400 to the league, so it couldn't have been unanimous.

The poster you mention here, read through his comments and tell me he isn't trolling or just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[fantasycurse42]

If a team is 3-7 and basically eliminated, why do they get their money back? Love the rationale on this one... BTW, hasn't complained one bit either.

 

[FF Wiseguy]

While I disagree with kicking them out, at least I see the argument. But keeping their money? I'm sorry that is absurd. The OP keeps talking about a punishment for "cheating". They didn't commit a crime, where the league gets to extract some sort of civil penalty for their misdeeds. Keeping the money of the entrants who have no chance to compete is stealing.

Agree with this. I've only ever kicked one person out, and that's because he went on leaguesafe and used another owner's email to sign them up for a bunch of gay porn sites. In that case, he was kicked out immediately, and I refunded his league fees.

 

[Insein]

What an awesome way to ruin a league and a possible friendship. You should be very proud of yourself and the other seven league mates. Congrats!!!!

And, what are you doing with the $800?

We are proud, we handled the cheating situation as painlessly as possible.Should we refund the 3-7 team for cheating?

Since you are guilty of thievery, yes you should. Your league is the lowest of the low. An 8-boy league... lol.

Wow this guy just found a way out of a losing bet, cheat. That's gold Jerry! Gold!

Wow, I'm glad I'm not your "friend". Stealing my $400 is net cause for something to occur. Good luck finding new friends.

With friends like me, who needs enemies, amirite? So I guess it is okay for you to steal, but then not face repercussions when caught, gotcha... Now your point of view is a little more clear, thanks for contributing.

They tried to get an edge in a game with no established rules. You just pocketed their $800 for no reason. Who's the thief in this scenario?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

If a team is 3-7 and basically eliminated, why do they get their money back? Love the rationale on this one... BTW, hasn't complained one bit either.

What about the 6-4 team? If you reversed the trade and kept the two teams in the league, he perhaps gets into the playoffs. Explain your rationale for keeping his money too.

 

[FF Wiseguy]

If a team is 3-7 and basically eliminated, why do they get their money back? Love the rationale on this one... BTW, hasn't complained one bit either.

In your post, you still had to qualify it with basically, which shows they still had a chance. And if he's keeping Knowshon, Russell Wilson, and AJ Green, I'd say they have at least an okay chance of winning out.

But the point is if they aren't allowed to stay in the league all year, regardless of record, they should get their money back.

I think you initially had the right instinct regarding the trade, but disagree with how you handled it almost across the board. But I'm writing this from my parents house, where I live, so what do I know?

 

[fantasycurse42]

If a team is 3-7 and basically eliminated, why do they get their money back? Love the rationale on this one... BTW, hasn't complained one bit either.

What about the 6-4 team? If you reversed the trade and kept the two teams in the league, he perhaps gets into the playoffs. Explain your rationale for keeping his money too.

Are you conceding that the 3-7 team should forfeit his money? I'll answer yours happily, please first answer mine.

 

[Bayhawks]

For people piling on the OP, remember the league voted unanimously. If it had been any other 2 owners, I'm sure the 2 who got kicked out would have voted the same way themselves.

Not for nothing, but how do we know this? Because the OP said it was so? The same OP who refused to answer questions about his league rules and other players on the roster of the two trading teams? The same OP who resorted to insults and name-calling directed at the one poster who disagreed with him? I don't see him as a very reliable source. Furthermore, he obviously doesn't understand what the term unanimous means. I can't believe that the 2 teams involved voted to disallow their own trade and "donate" their $400 to the league, so it couldn't have been unanimous.

The poster you mention here, read through his comments and tell me he isn't trolling or just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Okay, I'm not trolling/nor arguing for the sake of arguing. What are your league rules with regards to trades (vote, commish approval, etc), and what are the rosters of the two teams involved in the trade?

 

[Bayhawks]

If a team is 3-7 and basically eliminated, why do they get their money back? Love the rationale on this one... BTW, hasn't complained one bit either.

Because you aren't allowing them to "play FF." If you want to get technical about it, at least refund them $114, because since you aren't allowing them to "play FF" for 29% of the FF season, and that's 29% of the amount you charged them.

 

[Bayhawks]

If a team is 3-7 and basically eliminated, why do they get their money back? Love the rationale on this one... BTW, hasn't complained one bit either.

What about the 6-4 team? If you reversed the trade and kept the two teams in the league, he perhaps gets into the playoffs. Explain your rationale for keeping his money too.

Are you conceding that the 3-7 team should forfeit his money? I'll answer yours happily, please first answer mine.

Not to be childish, but why won't you answer the question unless he answers first?

 

[Chaka]

While I disagree with kicking them out, at least I see the argument. But keeping their money? I'm sorry that is absurd. The OP keeps talking about a punishment for "cheating". They didn't commit a crime, where the league gets to extract some sort of civil penalty for their misdeeds. Keeping the money of the entrants who have no chance to compete is stealing.

Agree with this. I've only ever kicked one person out, and that's because he went on leaguesafe and used another owner's email to sign them up for a bunch of gay porn sites. In that case, he was kicked out immediately, and I refunded his league fees.

You kicked a guy out for being hilarious?

 

[lod01]

We resolved this quick and orderly - Neither team admits to anything, but this isn't a court of law and we found them guilty, unanimously.

Both teams have been disqualified for the season, without doing so it sets a precedent that this is acceptable. They won't be kicked out, but they're each on notice. We are a 10 team league finishing the year as 8. Whomever is scheduled to play either of these teams for the rest of the year will now play each other that week, fairest way rather then adjusting the schedules. We moved our regular season finale to week 14, playoffs into weeks 15/16. Usually 6 teams make the playoffs with the top 2 having week 14 byes. Instead, it will be 4 teams with the top seed deciding who they want to play in week 15 of the 3 other teams.

The 3-7 team doesn't really suffer much punishment bc their season was just about over anyways, but the 6-4 team ####ed himself.

Awesome. Taught those two #####es a lesson.

 

[Bayhawks]

If a team is 3-7 and basically eliminated, why do they get their money back? Love the rationale on this one... BTW, hasn't complained one bit either.

So the owner who didn't respond to any inquires about why he made the trade hasn't complained about being kicked out? Maybe (because he's 3-7) he's not actively paying attention (perhaps why he made such a stupid trade, as well).

 

[fantasycurse42]

If a team is 3-7 and basically eliminated, why do they get their money back? Love the rationale on this one... BTW, hasn't complained one bit either.

What about the 6-4 team? If you reversed the trade and kept the two teams in the league, he perhaps gets into the playoffs. Explain your rationale for keeping his money too.

Are you conceding that the 3-7 team should forfeit his money? I'll answer yours happily, please first answer mine.

Not to be childish, but why won't you answer the question unless he answers first?

Not to be childish, but I asked mine first... & from the response it looks like it was swept under the rug.

 

[FF Wiseguy]

While I disagree with kicking them out, at least I see the argument. But keeping their money? I'm sorry that is absurd. The OP keeps talking about a punishment for "cheating". They didn't commit a crime, where the league gets to extract some sort of civil penalty for their misdeeds. Keeping the money of the entrants who have no chance to compete is stealing.

Agree with this. I've only ever kicked one person out, and that's because he went on leaguesafe and used another owner's email to sign them up for a bunch of gay porn sites. In that case, he was kicked out immediately, and I refunded his league fees.

You kicked a guy out for being hilarious?

haha, yeah, in hindsight, it was kind of a rash decision (also, the guy receiving them turned out to be gay, so maybe it was him all along!). But he was a stranger, and it was a league mostly full of friends, so I wasn't really going to tolerate that s***. It was more the violation of privacy than what he actually did with it.

 

[KCitons]

For people piling on the OP, remember the league voted unanimously. If it had been any other 2 owners, I'm sure the 2 who got kicked out would have voted the same way themselves.

Not for nothing, but how do we know this? Because the OP said it was so? The same OP who refused to answer questions about his league rules and other players on the roster of the two trading teams? The same OP who resorted to insults and name-calling directed at the one poster who disagreed with him? I don't see him as a very reliable source. Furthermore, he obviously doesn't understand what the term unanimous means. I can't believe that the 2 teams involved voted to disallow their own trade and "donate" their $400 to the league, so it couldn't have been unanimous.

The poster you mention here, read through his comments and tell me he isn't trolling or just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Yes, please read through all my comments and tell me where I am trolling? The last post was just providing facts, something the OP doesn't want to do.

Put it to a league-wide vote - Two options:

1) Reverse and carry on

2) Reverse and disqualify

IMHO, they should be disqualified. That prevents future teams who are decent from trying a similar (but slightly less obvious) tactic. That is to say, if everyone knows that collusion will get them DQ'd, they wont run the risk. Since it's friends, I'd let them back in next year - but they tried to cheat, therefore they should be poonished!!

I like this - I'm recommending this... No need for further responses, this appears perfect.The only issue we have with disqualifying is the change of playoff structure - we'll have to figure that out if it is voted, thanks again.

This was the OP's post 1 hour after starting the thread. He found the affirmation he was looking for, no need to get the truth. In fact, he would prefer that everyone stop posting. (he doesn't want to dirty the water)

If you read my posts, I made reference to helping other home leagues in dealing with this. I also mentioned that I wasn't questioning the trade.

Have to wonder if this league will establish rules for dealing with this?

 

[Amused to Death]

A lot of people jumping on the OP here. Let's keep one thing in mind; he did not initiate the situation. This was a friends league and I can understand not having provisions for collusion in the rules. They should be there, but I'm sure it was a case of "we'll never have to worry about it". Now they do unfortunately and its by no fault of the OP.

If the information being provided here is correct (and its all we have to go on), the 2 owners provided no explanation for the trade. Not even a weak one. So let's stop trying to justify it because even the cheaters didn't try to justify it. It was collusion. Given that, the league voted unanimously, the commish didn't act alone. In a lot of leagues, collusion is the worst offense you can commit and its understood among long-time players. Some may have reacted differently and that's your prerogative if you'r ever faced with it. This league put it to a vote and the decision was unanimous. The cheaters are out, they don't get their money back and will probably never play in leagues with this group of owners again. Everyone involved will move forward with the consequences. No need for pissing war, imo.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Explain the difference between collusion and a bad trade.

Then explain how you know it's collusion. Or how you can prove it's collusion.

Someone who needs to win right now to even try and stay alive trading a top 5 QB for an injured QB is a red flag... This guy understands football.

Why would a team on the brink of elimination make a trade that downgrades significantly at all positions (one of which is hurt)...

Still didn't answer my questions with any facts. Those were just your opinions.

I answered your question right away... You consider what I wrote an opinion... However, anyone who knows football (such as the individuals in my league) would know this is more of a fact.

I thought you left the convo?

 

[KCitons]

I'm back.

It was opinion. Myself and other posters were asking more questions in order to make an informed decision. You failed to answer most of those questions.

You got the answer you wanted and ran to your league with it.

Again, will the league establish rules to deal with this in the future? or are you going to wait for it to happen again?

 

[KCitons]

My home league, everyone has been friends since HS... $400 entry fee so it is a decent sized league. Scenario; Last place team 3-7 trades with his best friend in the league who is 6-4.

3-7 team sends AJ Green, Moreno, & Russel Wilson in exchange for BJGE, Larry Fitzgerald, & Jay Cutler.

As a league we are all friends, obviously we have all stayed in touch with each other at different levels, but nonetheless everyone is friends. As soon as this trade goes through everyone is in an uproar instantly - Every owner has posted, emailed, & some have texted the owner receiving BJGE, Fitz, Cutler as to why he would do this deal - No response. The other owner is defending the trade tooth and nail as legit. The owner of the 3-7 team isn't a moron, he understand how lopsided this trade is & wouldn't usually make a trade this stupid.

The commish has emailed all members excluding these two as to what the right course of action is.

Honestly, friends or no friends I want them out and disqualified...

What say you?

You got your wish.

 

[Bayhawks]

If a team is 3-7 and basically eliminated, why do they get their money back? Love the rationale on this one... BTW, hasn't complained one bit either.

What about the 6-4 team? If you reversed the trade and kept the two teams in the league, he perhaps gets into the playoffs. Explain your rationale for keeping his money too.

Are you conceding that the 3-7 team should forfeit his money? I'll answer yours happily, please first answer mine.

Not to be childish, but why won't you answer the question unless he answers first?

Not to be childish, but I asked mine first... & from the response it looks like it was swept under the rug.

Okay, sorry I missed that the first time.

I'll ask again, however, without trolling or being argumentative:

1-What rules (if any) does your league have with regard to trades?

2-What are/were the rosters of the two teams involved in the trades?

3-Without knowing the answers to 1 & 2, I DO NOT concede that the 3-7 should forfeit his $400.

So, please answer my question:

Why doesn't the 6-4 team deserve a refund of his money?

 

[fantasycurse42]

I'm back.

It was opinion. Myself and other posters were asking more questions in order to make an informed decision. You failed to answer most of those questions.

You got the answer you wanted and ran to your league with it.

Again, will the league establish rules to deal with this in the future? or are you going to wait for it to happen again?

What makes you think it was my opinion that was the only one being weighted? 8 individuals all discussed and came to the same conclusion.

 

[Bayhawks]

A lot of people jumping on the OP here. Let's keep one thing in mind; he did not initiate the situation. This was a friends league and I can understand not having provisions for collusion in the rules. They should be there, but I'm sure it was a case of "we'll never have to worry about it". Now they do unfortunately and its by no fault of the OP.

If the information being provided here is correct (and its all we have to go on), the 2 owners provided no explanation for the trade. Not even a weak one. So let's stop trying to justify it because even the cheaters didn't try to justify it. It was collusion. Given that, the league voted unanimously, the commish didn't act alone. In a lot of leagues, collusion is the worst offense you can commit and its understood among long-time players. Some may have reacted differently and that's your prerogative if you'r ever faced with it. This league put it to a vote and the decision was unanimous. The cheaters are out, they don't get their money back and will probably never play in leagues with this group of owners again. Everyone involved will move forward with the consequences. No need for pissing war, imo.

This isn't true. In the first post, he said the 6-4 team defended the trade. He failed to provide their logic/rationale, but he did say that they defended it.

The 3-7 team didn't reply to anyone. Again, while this MAY be the sign of a person who is guilty of collusion, it just as easily could be the sign of a disinterested owner who doesn't care enough to stay in contact, or avoid making crappy trades. The OP assumes it is the first possibility, but it just as easily could be the second.

 

[jmo87usc]

This whole situation sucks. Nobody really wins here. I would have disbanded the entire league and given everyone their money back and moved on. Either starting up fresh next year without the cheaters, finding an entirely new league, or just not even playing fantasy football anymore. This kind of stuff just ruins any enjoyment of playing fantasy football.

My league has been together for 13 years and is made up of 14 friends. Low stakes also. There have been some bad trades and questionable moves over the years, but if I ever thought for a second that someone was trying to cheat and steal, I am out. Friendships are way too important to be ruined by greed.

I can't imagine doing a high stakes league with my friends. Just sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

[KCitons]

I'm back.

It was opinion. Myself and other posters were asking more questions in order to make an informed decision. You failed to answer most of those questions.

You got the answer you wanted and ran to your league with it.

Again, will the league establish rules to deal with this in the future? or are you going to wait for it to happen again?

What makes you think it was my opinion that was the only one being weighted? 8 individuals all discussed and came to the same conclusion.

Link?

Why did you come here looking for answers if the 8 people made the decision.

Again, you didn't answer my question. Will the league establish rules to deal with this in the future? or are you going to wait for it to happen again?

Also, are you the commish of this league or just an owner?

 

[lod01]

This whole situation sucks. Nobody really wins here. I would have disbanded the entire league and given everyone their money back and moved on. Either starting up fresh next year without the cheaters, finding an entirely new league, or just not even playing fantasy football anymore. This kind of stuff just ruins any enjoyment of playing fantasy football.

My league has been together for 13 years and is made up of 14 friends. Low stakes also. There have been some bad trades and questionable moves over the years, but if I ever thought for a second that someone was trying to cheat and steal, I am out. Friendships are way too important to be ruined by greed.

I can't imagine doing a high stakes league with my friends. Just sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Sounds like the rest of them took care of the 2 #####es.

 

[fantasycurse42]

If a team is 3-7 and basically eliminated, why do they get their money back? Love the rationale on this one... BTW, hasn't complained one bit either.

What about the 6-4 team? If you reversed the trade and kept the two teams in the league, he perhaps gets into the playoffs. Explain your rationale for keeping his money too.

Are you conceding that the 3-7 team should forfeit his money? I'll answer yours happily, please first answer mine.

Not to be childish, but why won't you answer the question unless he answers first?

Not to be childish, but I asked mine first... & from the response it looks like it was swept under the rug.

Okay, sorry I missed that the first time.

I'll ask again, however, without trolling or being argumentative:

1-What rules (if any) does your league have with regard to trades?

2-What are/were the rosters of the two teams involved in the trades?

3-Without knowing the answers to 1 & 2, I DO NOT concede that the 3-7 should forfeit his $400.

So, please answer my question:

Why doesn't the 6-4 team deserve a refund of his money?

BC he tried to #### the entire league... He was grabbing a few extra cards while everyone else was playing the hands they were dealt.

If you go into a casino and are caught cheating (and there is no court of law in a casino), you'll be going home empty handed... I think it is even worse trying to stack the deck against a group of friends.

That is my opinion, and honestly I don't care if people here disagree, maybe a higher tolerance to cheating in your leagues... We voted and all agreed on the punishment - Only 1-10 has contested, & if he wasn't a dbag none of this would have happened.

 

[lod01]

If a team is 3-7 and basically eliminated, why do they get their money back? Love the rationale on this one... BTW, hasn't complained one bit either.

What about the 6-4 team? If you reversed the trade and kept the two teams in the league, he perhaps gets into the playoffs. Explain your rationale for keeping his money too.

Are you conceding that the 3-7 team should forfeit his money? I'll answer yours happily, please first answer mine.

Not to be childish, but why won't you answer the question unless he answers first?

Not to be childish, but I asked mine first... & from the response it looks like it was swept under the rug.

Okay, sorry I missed that the first time.

I'll ask again, however, without trolling or being argumentative:

1-What rules (if any) does your league have with regard to trades?

2-What are/were the rosters of the two teams involved in the trades?

3-Without knowing the answers to 1 & 2, I DO NOT concede that the 3-7 should forfeit his $400.

So, please answer my question:

Why doesn't the 6-4 team deserve a refund of his money?

BC he tried to #### the entire league... He was grabbing a few extra cards while everyone else was playing the hands they were dealt.

If you go into a casino and are caught cheating (and there is no court of law in a casino), you'll be going home empty handed... I think it is even worse trying to stack the deck against a group of friends.

That is my opinion, and honestly I don't care if people here disagree, maybe a higher tolerance to cheating in your leagues... We voted and all agreed on the punishment - Only 1-10 has contested, & if he wasn't a dbag none of this would have happened.

I'll guarantee you they planned on splitting the winnings.