Refs - How SHOULD they be punished? (1 Viewer)

[BobbyLayne]

Patriots quarterback Mac Jones took the snap and dropped back to pass. Before he could get the ball out in time, Commanders defensive end K.J. Henry came around the edge and got Jones for what he thought was the first sack of his career.

"I don’t see the call," FOX commentator Jonathan Vilma said as the broadcast showed the replay of the controversial play. "Mac Jones has the ball in his hands, and he takes him down for a sack."

The NFL world kept an eye on the games on Sunday and it was shocked by the call.

"KJ Henry of Washington just got a personal foul for just playing football. Unbelievable. He tackles Mac Jones - while Mac has the ball - and causes the fumble. Normal tackle. I’m watching this game with former Patriot @devinmccourty & he agrees this is a terrible call. Unreal," NBC Sports’ Matthew Berry

here is the play

sackle + fumble recovery

RTP?

was he wearing a red jersey & this was a joint practice? bc otherwise looks like a football player making a football play

 

[BobbyLayne]

Sooooooo sick and tired of b.s. roughing the passer calls each and every week, each and every game.

Unwatchable.

I was going to create a thread. Totally agree. The main one is the nonsense body weight rule. The whole spirit of that rule was to stop defenders from lifting the QB and then basically "body slamming" and purposely landing in them, we all know what it looks like. Half of these are just tackles where the defender has no choice. Now that all QBs are 6'3 arm tackling doesn't work....so annoying

NFL pass rusher trying to understand the rule:

how about when I pull the QB over the top of me so the full body weight of the quarterback is on me?

NFL:

Still roughing the passer.

 

[JohnnyU]

Patriots quarterback Mac Jones took the snap and dropped back to pass. Before he could get the ball out in time, Commanders defensive end K.J. Henry came around the edge and got Jones for what he thought was the first sack of his career.

"I don’t see the call," FOX commentator Jonathan Vilma said as the broadcast showed the replay of the controversial play. "Mac Jones has the ball in his hands, and he takes him down for a sack."

The NFL world kept an eye on the games on Sunday and it was shocked by the call.

"KJ Henry of Washington just got a personal foul for just playing football. Unbelievable. He tackles Mac Jones - while Mac has the ball - and causes the fumble. Normal tackle. I’m watching this game with former Patriot @devinmccourty & he agrees this is a terrible call. Unreal," NBC Sports’ Matthew Berry

here is the play

sackle + fumble recovery

RTP?

was he wearing a red jersey & this was a joint practice? bc otherwise looks like a football player making a football play

Change the game to flag football for crying out loud. It's unbelievable they would call roughing the passer on that play. The defender just made a simple basic tackle. The NFL seriously needs to review how they call roughing the passer. Just put a damn dress on them already.



"UPDATE: After the game, which Washington won, Hill was asked in a pool report about the call.

"I was the calling official and the call was roughing the passer due to full body weight," Hill said. "The ruling on the field was that the defender came down with forceable contact, chest-to-chest. He didn't perform one of those acts to remove most of that body weight – a gator roll or a clear to the side when he was coming in. He came down directly with that force on the player, so the category was full body weight."

Hill was asked what the defender could have done to have avoided the call.

"There are two common techniques," Hill answered. "One we call the 'gator roll' where if he takes that player and rolls to the side so they both land on their side, that 90-degree rotation as he comes around. Or he comes down and breaks the fall first with hands and knees almost like in a crab-like fashion on top of the quarterback.""

 

[Max Power]

Patriots quarterback Mac Jones took the snap and dropped back to pass. Before he could get the ball out in time, Commanders defensive end K.J. Henry came around the edge and got Jones for what he thought was the first sack of his career.

"I don’t see the call," FOX commentator Jonathan Vilma said as the broadcast showed the replay of the controversial play. "Mac Jones has the ball in his hands, and he takes him down for a sack."

The NFL world kept an eye on the games on Sunday and it was shocked by the call.

"KJ Henry of Washington just got a personal foul for just playing football. Unbelievable. He tackles Mac Jones - while Mac has the ball - and causes the fumble. Normal tackle. I’m watching this game with former Patriot @devinmccourty & he agrees this is a terrible call. Unreal," NBC Sports’ Matthew Berry

here is the play

sackle + fumble recovery

RTP?

was he wearing a red jersey & this was a joint practice? bc otherwise looks like a football player making a football play

Change the game to flag football for crying out loud. It's unbelievable they would call roughing the passer on that play. The defender just made a simple basic tackle. The NFL seriously needs to review how they call roughing the passer. Just put a damn dress on them already.



"UPDATE: After the game, which Washington won, Hill was asked in a pool report about the call.

"I was the calling official and the call was roughing the passer due to full body weight," Hill said. "The ruling on the field was that the defender came down with forceable contact, chest-to-chest. He didn't perform one of those acts to remove most of that body weight – a gator roll or a clear to the side when he was coming in. He came down directly with that force on the player, so the category was full body weight."

Hill was asked what the defender could have done to have avoided the call.

"There are two common techniques," Hill answered. "One we call the 'gator roll' where if he takes that player and rolls to the side so they both land on their side, that 90-degree rotation as he comes around. Or he comes down and breaks the fall first with hands and knees almost like in a crab-like fashion on top of the quarterback.""

Lol, so don't wrap up and arm tackle people? Coaches must love teaching that.

Its frustrating to see rules made and interpreted by people who've never played the game at NFL speeds. This stuff isn't reasonable for the majority of NFL players.

 

[BobbyLayne]

"There are two common techniques," Hill answered. "One we call the 'gator roll' where if he takes that player and rolls to the side so they both land on their side, that 90-degree rotation as he comes around. Or he comes down and breaks the fall first with hands and knees almost like in a crab-like fashion on top of the quarterback."

This reads like an SNL skit. No way that’s not from The Onion.

 

[Dickies]

Patriots quarterback Mac Jones took the snap and dropped back to pass. Before he could get the ball out in time, Commanders defensive end K.J. Henry came around the edge and got Jones for what he thought was the first sack of his career.

"I don’t see the call," FOX commentator Jonathan Vilma said as the broadcast showed the replay of the controversial play. "Mac Jones has the ball in his hands, and he takes him down for a sack."

The NFL world kept an eye on the games on Sunday and it was shocked by the call.

"KJ Henry of Washington just got a personal foul for just playing football. Unbelievable. He tackles Mac Jones - while Mac has the ball - and causes the fumble. Normal tackle. I’m watching this game with former Patriot @devinmccourty & he agrees this is a terrible call. Unreal," NBC Sports’ Matthew Berry

here is the play

sackle + fumble recovery

RTP?

was he wearing a red jersey & this was a joint practice? bc otherwise looks like a football player making a football play

Oof

 

[Max Power]

This might be the worst pass interference call of all time.

During Sunday’s Cardinals-Browns game in Cleveland, Cards WR Marqiuse “Hollywood” Brown ran a simple zig route, two Browns defenders ran into each other and the referees threw the flag.

The flag was somehow on Hollywood Brown, who was called for offensive pass interference.

Link

Video

 

[Ghost Rider]

I don't blame officials for the bogus roughing the passer calls most of the time since most of that silliness is mandated by the league, so they have no choice but to throw flags if you breathe on the QB. It's when they miss obvious calls and/or are inconsistent with calls as to when they deserve to get called out.

 

[Gally]

I don't blame officials for the bogus roughing the passer calls most of the time since most of that silliness is mandated by the league, so they have no choice but to throw flags if you breathe on the QB. It's when they miss obvious calls and/or are inconsistent with calls as to when they deserve to get called out.

Most of the time I would agree but the call in question against Mac was as terrible as you can get. There is no way that should be called in any way when compared to the rules. He didn't hit him in the head. He didn't lead with his helmet. He didn't drive him into the ground. He didn't even put his full body weight on him in a way that would even seem forceful. It seemed like a run of the mill tackle at full speed. It was almost as bad as the Chris Jones "hit to the head" and the Tom Brady vs Falcons call last year.

 

[wlwiles]

I still haven't seen any explanation as to how Schoonmaker's TD wasn't DPI? They overturned it and said that he was down (knee) when control was gained, and that didn't allow him to turn and move the ball across the plane. But he was tackled before the ball got there which is what created the "down before control" in the first place. Probably can't call a penalty based on review, but seemed to me like a missed call and not just a "whoops, fell an inch short" situation.

 

[brettdj]

Patriots quarterback Mac Jones took the snap and dropped back to pass. Before he could get the ball out in time, Commanders defensive end K.J. Henry came around the edge and got Jones for what he thought was the first sack of his career.

"I don’t see the call," FOX commentator Jonathan Vilma said as the broadcast showed the replay of the controversial play. "Mac Jones has the ball in his hands, and he takes him down for a sack."

The NFL world kept an eye on the games on Sunday and it was shocked by the call.

"KJ Henry of Washington just got a personal foul for just playing football. Unbelievable. He tackles Mac Jones - while Mac has the ball - and causes the fumble. Normal tackle. I’m watching this game with former Patriot @devinmccourty & he agrees this is a terrible call. Unreal," NBC Sports’ Matthew Berry

here is the play

sackle + fumble recovery

RTP?

was he wearing a red jersey & this was a joint practice? bc otherwise looks like a football player making a football play

Change the game to flag football for crying out loud. It's unbelievable they would call roughing the passer on that play. The defender just made a simple basic tackle. The NFL seriously needs to review how they call roughing the passer. Just put a damn dress on them already.



"UPDATE: After the game, which Washington won, Hill was asked in a pool report about the call.

"I was the calling official and the call was roughing the passer due to full body weight," Hill said. "The ruling on the field was that the defender came down with forceable contact, chest-to-chest. He didn't perform one of those acts to remove most of that body weight – a gator roll or a clear to the side when he was coming in. He came down directly with that force on the player, so the category was full body weight."

Hill was asked what the defender could have done to have avoided the call.

"There are two common techniques," Hill answered. "One we call the 'gator roll' where if he takes that player and rolls to the side so they both land on their side, that 90-degree rotation as he comes around. Or he comes down and breaks the fall first with hands and knees almost like in a crab-like fashion on top of the quarterback.""

Adrian explained it perfectly. He is a great official. I was trained by him for officiating high school football, before he made it into the NFL.

The ones that no very little about the rules are the commentators (except for the former officials/supervisors)

 

[The Duff Man]

Heard this yesterday and it was not brought up on the broadcast.

Allen was called for a ridiculous intentional grounding at the end of the first half, his receiver cut off the route and Allen though it was a Go.

This knocked the Bills out of FG range and materially impacted the game.

Per the written rule the QB has to “facing an imminent loss of yardage”. There was no defender close to Allen. This part of the rule is never discussed, I am guessing the refs do not know it

Horrible judgement calls are one thing. Not knowing the rules is not OK. As usual nothing will be done.

 

[brettdj]

Heard this yesterday and it was not brought up on the broadcast.

Allen was called for a ridiculous intentional grounding at the end of the first half, his receiver cut off the route and Allen though it was a Go.

This knocked the Bills out of FG range and materially impacted the game.

Per the written rule the QB has to “facing an imminent loss of yardage”. There was no defender close to Allen. This part of the rule is never discussed, I am guessing the refs do not know it

Horrible judgement calls are one thing. Not knowing the rules is not OK. As usual nothing will be done.

There was a free bengal within three yards when he released the ball. That is close enough for imminent loss of yardage. These guys know the rules better than all of the commentators(including the former officials) They have had to learn more rule changes than anyone on this board knows of the rules.

 

[JohnnyU]

Heard this yesterday and it was not brought up on the broadcast.

Allen was called for a ridiculous intentional grounding at the end of the first half, his receiver cut off the route and Allen though it was a Go.

This knocked the Bills out of FG range and materially impacted the game.

Per the written rule the QB has to “facing an imminent loss of yardage”. There was no defender close to Allen. This part of the rule is never discussed, I am guessing the refs do not know it

Horrible judgement calls are one thing. Not knowing the rules is not OK. As usual nothing will be done.

There was a free bengal within three yards when he released the ball. That is close enough for imminent loss of yardage. These guys know the rules better than all of the commentators(including the former officials) They have had to learn more rule changes than anyone on this board knows of the rules.

Yet they seem to suck more than ever

 

[dschuler]

I still haven't seen any explanation as to how Schoonmaker's TD wasn't DPI? They overturned it and said that he was down (knee) when control was gained, and that didn't allow him to turn and move the ball across the plane. But he was tackled before the ball got there which is what created the "down before control" in the first place. Probably can't call a penalty based on review, but seemed to me like a missed call and not just a "whoops, fell an inch short" situation.

Jerry has to be fuming.

The first drive of the game Hurts was down over 2 yards short of the marker before he extended and they made it fourth and inches for the tush push and the drive resulted in a TD instead of a punt. Cowboys should have thrown a challenge on the third play of the game. The poor PI call on Gillmore to extend the drive for a TD, two obvious holding penalty non calls on Parsons that allowed the Eagles to extend drives, the non call on the Schoonmaker play. Cowboys had a questionable holding call on a big run, and the Eagles would have had a FG on the goal line but a defensive holding call gave them a first down on the 4. The Eagles only had one touchdown on a drive not extended on a first down from a Dallas penalty or a missed call.

They were pretty fortunate the week before against the Dolphins as well.

 

[BlackCrowes]

Hate it. Wish they could stop it, but I don’t see any easy way to outlaw it and not have too much of an unintended effect.

 

[Deamon]

Hate it. Wish they could stop it, but I don’t see any easy way to outlaw it and not have too much of an unintended effect.

Hate what?
Stop what?
Outlaw what?

 

[rockaction]

Hate what?
Stop what?
Outlaw what?

The hip-drop tackle, a thread which he obviously thinks he's in.

 

[brettdj]

Heard this yesterday and it was not brought up on the broadcast.

Allen was called for a ridiculous intentional grounding at the end of the first half, his receiver cut off the route and Allen though it was a Go.

This knocked the Bills out of FG range and materially impacted the game.

Per the written rule the QB has to “facing an imminent loss of yardage”. There was no defender close to Allen. This part of the rule is never discussed, I am guessing the refs do not know it

Horrible judgement calls are one thing. Not knowing the rules is not OK. As usual nothing will be done.

There was a free bengal within three yards when he released the ball. That is close enough for imminent loss of yardage. These guys know the rules better than all of the commentators(including the former officials) They have had to learn more rule changes than anyone on this board knows of the rules.

Yet they seem to suck more than ever

Dunning-Kruger effect

 

[JohnnyU]

Is the NFL rigged?! Top 35 Worst NFL Calls and Officiating of 2023 #nflreaction #badrefs #kelcebowl

People across the world agree that officiating has been the most corrupt in 2023 and the NFL may have something shady going on. Watch these terrible calls an...

www.youtube.com

 

[babydemon90]

Patriots quarterback Mac Jones took the snap and dropped back to pass. Before he could get the ball out in time, Commanders defensive end K.J. Henry came around the edge and got Jones for what he thought was the first sack of his career.

"I don’t see the call," FOX commentator Jonathan Vilma said as the broadcast showed the replay of the controversial play. "Mac Jones has the ball in his hands, and he takes him down for a sack."

The NFL world kept an eye on the games on Sunday and it was shocked by the call.

"KJ Henry of Washington just got a personal foul for just playing football. Unbelievable. He tackles Mac Jones - while Mac has the ball - and causes the fumble. Normal tackle. I’m watching this game with former Patriot @devinmccourty & he agrees this is a terrible call. Unreal," NBC Sports’ Matthew Berry

here is the play

sackle + fumble recovery

RTP?

was he wearing a red jersey & this was a joint practice? bc otherwise looks like a football player making a football play

Change the game to flag football for crying out loud. It's unbelievable they would call roughing the passer on that play. The defender just made a simple basic tackle. The NFL seriously needs to review how they call roughing the passer. Just put a damn dress on them already.



"UPDATE: After the game, which Washington won, Hill was asked in a pool report about the call.

"I was the calling official and the call was roughing the passer due to full body weight," Hill said. "The ruling on the field was that the defender came down with forceable contact, chest-to-chest. He didn't perform one of those acts to remove most of that body weight – a gator roll or a clear to the side when he was coming in. He came down directly with that force on the player, so the category was full body weight."

Hill was asked what the defender could have done to have avoided the call.

"There are two common techniques," Hill answered. "One we call the 'gator roll' where if he takes that player and rolls to the side so they both land on their side, that 90-degree rotation as he comes around. Or he comes down and breaks the fall first with hands and knees almost like in a crab-like fashion on top of the quarterback.""

Lol, so don't wrap up and arm tackle people? Coaches must love teaching that.

Its frustrating to see rules made and interpreted by people who've never played the game at NFL speeds. This stuff isn't reasonable for the majority of NFL players.

Agreed - I think the only remedy (also not great) would be to whistle the play dead as soon as the QB is in the grasp (so yea literally 2 hand touch).

 

[Bri]

Pat Kirwan often tells a story how he talked to so many refs over the years and they like to be corrected by instant replay- in a sense that they have backup in case they mess up.

I always find that an interesting monkey wrench to these discussions

 

[JohnnyU]

Was the Bengals robbed on the no call PI?

 

[eighsse2]

Was the Bengals robbed on the no call PI?

Robbed? Yes. But it happens to everybody.

 

[JohnnyU]

Was the Bengals robbed on the no call PI?

Robbed? Yes. But it happens to everybody.

Yeah, that makes it all better

 

[eighsse2]

Was the Bengals robbed on the no call PI?

Robbed? Yes. But it happens to everybody.

Yeah, that makes it all better

It doesn't make it feel any better, but it's understandable and acceptable. And I'm a Bengals fan.

 

[JohnnyU]

Was the Bengals robbed on the no call PI?

Robbed? Yes. But it happens to everybody.

Yeah, that makes it all better

It doesn't make it feel any better, but it's understandable and acceptable. And I'm a Bengals fan.

No, it is not acceptable. That’s the problem, it’s not acceptable if it’s a trend.

 

[eighsse2]

Was the Bengals robbed on the no call PI?

Robbed? Yes. But it happens to everybody.

Yeah, that makes it all better

It doesn't make it feel any better, but it's understandable and acceptable. And I'm a Bengals fan.

No, it is not acceptable. That’s the problem, it’s not acceptable if it’s a trend.

It's a randomly distributed error. I personally don't have a big issue with it. You get some in your favor, you get some against you.

 

[JohnnyU]

Was the Bengals robbed on the no call PI?

Robbed? Yes. But it happens to everybody.

Yeah, that makes it all better

It doesn't make it feel any better, but it's understandable and acceptable. And I'm a Bengals fan.

No, it is not acceptable. That’s the problem, it’s not acceptable if it’s a trend.

It's a randomly distributed error. I personally don't have a big issue with it. You get some in your favor, you get some against you.

….thus the problem when mediocrity becomes acceptable and I’m being kind.

 

[eighsse2]

Was the Bengals robbed on the no call PI?

Robbed? Yes. But it happens to everybody.

Yeah, that makes it all better

It doesn't make it feel any better, but it's understandable and acceptable. And I'm a Bengals fan.

No, it is not acceptable. That’s the problem, it’s not acceptable if it’s a trend.

It's a randomly distributed error. I personally don't have a big issue with it. You get some in your favor, you get some against you.

….thus the problem when mediocrity becomes acceptable and I’m being kind.

Pobody's nerfect.

 

[JohnnyU]

Was the Bengals robbed on the no call PI?

Robbed? Yes. But it happens to everybody.

Yeah, that makes it all better

It doesn't make it feel any better, but it's understandable and acceptable. And I'm a Bengals fan.

No, it is not acceptable. That’s the problem, it’s not acceptable if it’s a trend.

It's a randomly distributed error. I personally don't have a big issue with it. You get some in your favor, you get some against you.

….thus the problem when mediocrity becomes acceptable and I’m being kind.

Pobody's nerfect.

Sure thing