Reggie Bush Hype.....Is it bigger (1 Viewer)

[Marc Levin]

Also, for anyone who thinks the Texans will be better off with Reggie does the Detroit Lions mean anything to you? 

Barry Sanders, much?edit - he toiled behind crap on top of crap in Detroit for years and still was a superstar record breaker.

 

[Marc Levin]

If Bo came out today, he'd pass Reggie in hype.

2 sports + 24-hour networks = mucho hype.

Maybe - but he didn't.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

OK...he's a junior in college, but he's already Barry freakin' Sanders.Ummm....yeah.Some of you guys are hilarious.

 

[Marc Levin]

OK...he's a junior in college, but he's already Barry freakin' Sanders.

???

 

[eriadoc]

Bush will be the next Eric Metcalf.

 

[PACKER 7]

Also, for anyone who thinks the Texans will be better off with Reggie does the Detroit Lions mean anything to you? 

Barry Sanders, much?edit - he toiled behind crap on top of crap in Detroit for years and still was a superstar record breaker.

I'm not saying that Reggie imparticular won't do well, but the Texans won't. Even with Barry the Lions never did crap in the Playoffs. Never won an NFC championship even. Just my opinion below...

There is not one player in the past who could equal the hype Bush has received. Back in the day there was this thing called a brain that most sports reporters used to have. Now they are all hype machines. It's ridiculous. If a guy like Bo or Barry came out today sure they would equal the hype of Reggie. Does that make them overhyped? Certainly.

However, I hope everyone doesn't let all the hype fool them. Reggie is a good player. Based on what I've heard and seen he wants to be great. So I have to believe that if he fails it wont be due to he didn't work hard enough. It will be due to injury or lack of ability, or understanding of the NFL game, etc.

I think some guys will use the hype to convince them to not draft Reggie early, but it's a gamble I'm willing to take early in the draft.

 

[Newman]

What I dont like about Bush's college career is I never see him break tackles.  I never see him making plays in traffic.  The only highlight reels I see of Reggie Bush are out running college football players who argueably arent even any good considering who USC has played.  Bush runs well around corners, bush runs well in the open field.  I dont see much else and I expect he will have a rude awakening in the NFL.

Also, while I don't expect him to be shut down by any means, I think he may find the going a little rougher against Texas, compared to what he's used to.

you ALSO have not seen him run.

Agreed. Again, the only thing I take issue with is people saying they've never seen him break tackles or make plays in traffic. That's just ignorant. It's anything but a "good posting"; in fact, it's an absolutely horrible posting.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Back to the original question...I think it's real clear where ESPN stands on all of this.

Go to their College Football front page at the Link, where Reggie is mentioned or referred (and linked) to no less than 9 times, then click on Bush headlines AP All-America team.

It's funny what happens when you get to the real AP story.

 

[Angrymutt]

Why not hype it? Who's been better the last 10 to 15 years? The dude is a stud. He can do it all and no one the last decade has had a highlight real like his. Let's not believe it if he get's shut down v. Texas. For now...he's the worth the hype.

 

[Marc Levin]

Back to the original question...I think it's real clear where ESPN stands on all of this.

Go to their College Football front page at the Link, where Reggie is mentioned or referred (and linked) to no less than 9 times, then click on Bush headlines AP All-America team.

It's funny what happens when you get to the real AP story.

I'm confused by your point here.If it is that Bush is not mentioned much in the AP All-America Team story, I'd imagine that is b/c the AP had already released multiple stories on Bush that day, not that he doesn't deserve lip service in that article.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I'd imagine that is b/c the AP had already released multiple stories on Bush that day

What does that have to do with the story that ESPN links to with that title?They cut off Vince Young from AP's title, never mind that VY is listed first on the AP title and VY and ML are clearly the focus until the 3rd paragraph, which is where you see the very first mention of Bush. Highlighting Bush doesn't appear to be the intention of the AP story at all, but that's how ESPN made it out. The AP story was surprisingly even-handed, by today's journalistic standards, pointing out that Texas had more AAs than USC, etc. If you look at ESPN's college fb front page, I believe the only mention of Texas football is in a story where they lead in with more USC. Not that big of a deal, just another example of the unnecessary spin ESPN puts on practically everything, not just RB and SC.

 

[Newman]

he had quite a few ordinary games this year

By quite a few ordinary games, I'm assuming you mean at least 4 or 5, maybe more. Which games were those, and what were his YPC in those games? I'm assuming by "ordinary", you mean around 4 or 5 YPC, or ordinary b/c his carries were held down?

 

[Marc Levin]

I'd imagine that is b/c the AP had already released multiple stories on Bush that day

What does that have to do with the story that ESPN links to with that title?They cut off Vince Young from AP's title, never mind that VY is listed first on the AP title and VY and ML are clearly the focus until the 3rd paragraph, which is where you see the very first mention of Bush. Highlighting Bush doesn't appear to be the intention of the AP story at all, but that's how ESPN made it out. The AP story was surprisingly even-handed, by today's journalistic standards, pointing out that Texas had more AAs than USC, etc. If you look at ESPN's college fb front page, I believe the only mention of Texas football is in a story where they lead in with more USC.

Not that big of a deal, just another example of the unnecessary spin ESPN puts on practically everything, not just RB and SC.

Like i said, I'm confused by what point you were making by linking those articles.

 

[coolnerd]

Also, for anyone who thinks the Texans will be better off with Reggie does the Detroit Lions mean anything to you?  They drafted all kinds of offensive talent and still have nothing to show for it.  Is Harrington bad, maybe, but until he stops getting beatings like a tied up goat b/c his o-line sux then I can't really judge.  Same would go for Carr.  I believe Carr is not a bad NFL QB, but dude has no blocking and no time.  Even Joe Montana couldn't perform behind that line. 

Texans need Ferguson period, or trade the no. 1 pick if they get it for a multitude of other picks to build a line. 

Bush best fits with the Niners or Jets.  The Niners, imo screwed the pooch last year by not taking a RB from that class in the 1st round.  Now is their chance to make up for that screw up.

So those 5 playoffs appearances and a trip to the conference finals mean nothing. The Barry Sanders era was easiliy the best in Lions history, at least giving them a chance. That's all an individual player or unit can do. The record of having the best LT (or Offensive line for that matter) in football is no different.

 

[Phlash]

Larry Johnson was much better than Reggie Bush in college.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I'd imagine that is b/c the AP had already released multiple stories on Bush that day

What does that have to do with the story that ESPN links to with that title?They cut off Vince Young from AP's title, never mind that VY is listed first on the AP title and VY and ML are clearly the focus until the 3rd paragraph, which is where you see the very first mention of Bush. Highlighting Bush doesn't appear to be the intention of the AP story at all, but that's how ESPN made it out. The AP story was surprisingly even-handed, by today's journalistic standards, pointing out that Texas had more AAs than USC, etc. If you look at ESPN's college fb front page, I believe the only mention of Texas football is in a story where they lead in with more USC.

Not that big of a deal, just another example of the unnecessary spin ESPN puts on practically everything, not just RB and SC.

Like i said, I'm confused by what point you were making by linking those articles.

Well, it's all spelled out for you in black and white. It couldn't be much clearer.

Highlighting Bush doesn't appear to be the intention of the AP story at all, but that's how ESPN made it out.

Not that big of a deal, just another example of the unnecessary spin ESPN puts on practically everything, not just RB and SC.

How is that in any way unclear?Really...you can't be serious.

 

[Chaka]

My wife asked me how good Reggie Bush was. My wife!?!?!

She's never asked me a football question in the 5 years we've known each other. This alone might be grounds to call him the most hyped ever, but it goes way beyond that. E. Smith, T. Davis, and a slew of great NFL RBs are on the bandwagon. That's what I don't recall seeing before is so many respected players at the same position already calling him great. The Mel Kiper types find a great one almost every year but the players rarely give a guy a free pass into NFL greatness. Bush seems to be getting this free pass from some huge names.

Most overlooked post in the last three pages of this thread.What Wadsworth said should tell you all you need to know about Bush's hype - he is ALREADY one of the single most hyped players EVER (in any sport) - and he hasn't even got the hype machine going yet - he isn't allowed to talk to sports agents until after the Rose Bowl.

Ricky Williams might have been a household name AMONG FOOTBALL FOLKS when he came out, but no college player has had Bush's noteriety among both the PRO NFL pundits and among women who don't get their news from anywhere except "The View"

Lebron?

 

[Chaka]

Let me just say this:

We have seen how Bush can do on the best team in the collegic level.

Lets see what he does on the worst team in the NFL level.

He won't be breaking off 30 plus yards runs 2-3 times a game. That's for sure.

Really ?!?!

Do you really expect him to rush for 10 ypc in the NFL. It would be nice but won't happen! I think he'll be a great back if a team can build around him, but lets be real about it.

I DO expect him to have a good chance at breaking one for over 40 yards EVERY game he is in... I don't know about average yards per carry, depends on his number of carries... in this regard think caddy this year... he springs one over 25 yards in nearly every game... reggie should be as likely to accomplish this...

I see him EXACTLY like LT was/is - on any given play, he could burst through the line or take a short screen and all he has to do is make one LB or one CB miss and he is in the open field - anything from 12 to 72 yards is possible at that point. That's why he will be so valuable on PR/KR, too.

Actually, yes I have...and he had quite a few ordinary games this year, which led to him slipping to 2nd in the Heisman polls. Then against Fresno, he had over 500 yards (including the 135 yards on 7, yes 7, kickoff returns due to the awesome SC defense ).

SC fans hailed FS as a great team. Yes, the same Fresno who promptly went right out and lost it's next two to Nevada and La Tech, giving up 78 points, and giving up, what, 9+ ypc to Nevada's #2 tailback. Yeah, THAT Fresno.

Then against UCLA, whose d-line averages about 260 pounds? Nice game, but the o-line dominated them. Any good o-line would have.

He basically won the Heisman based on perfomances against FS and UCLA...two bad defenses. Ridiculous.

Like I said, Texas likely won't shut him down in the SC offense. To say otherwise would border on ridiculous. But for anyone to say that he won't have a more difficult time than usual against the best defense he's seen all year would be just as ridiculous.

I am confused on one point hairy how exactly do you know that Texas has the best defense that 'SC has seen all season? This sounds a whole lot like all the hype that surrounded Oklahoma last year where they had a senior laden offense and a deep and talented defense unlike any 'SC had seen all year. Reggie had 6 carries for 75 yards and 2 catches for 31, not bad for 8 opportunities. The fact is with Oklahoma having a very down season there was absolutely zero (ZERO) competition for Texas in the Big-12. They had a very impressive early season win at Ohio State and then maybe you can argue that Texas Tech has some offensive talent but what offense did they really face that makes you so certain that their defense is dominant?

I could easily make the exact same counter argument about Texas. They have not seen an offense that even comes close to what 'SC is bringing to the table.

I admit that winning games at Oregon, at ASU, at Notre Dame, v Fresno State & v UCLA may not be as impressive as the Ohio State win but on the whole it is far deeper competition than what Texas has faced this season.

My point is that Texas has not been tested since week two so do not be certain that they are as dominant on defense as you say.

All that being said as an 'SC fan I am very worried about this Texas game. When two evenly matched teams face off in this type of situation I am inclined to favor the hungrier team and right now I worry that team is Texas.

 

[Marc Levin]

Well, it's all spelled out for you in black and white. It couldn't be much clearer.

Highlighting Bush doesn't appear to be the intention of the AP story at all, but that's how ESPN made it out.

Not that big of a deal, just another example of the unnecessary spin ESPN puts on practically everything, not just RB and SC.

How is that in any way unclear?Really...you can't be serious.

First, lose the 'tude, please. It was not clear to what you were referring. My guess after seeing what you are talking about is that you are upset b/c ESPN linked to an article entitled:Young, Bush headline AP All-America team

With a hyperlink entitled:

Bush headlines AP All-America team

And then you think the article linked to doesn't highlight Bush all that much, when, after a cute lead-in about Young relegating Leinert to second string, the first full paragraph is:

Young was runner-up in the Heisman Trophy voting to Trojans tailback Reggie Bush and was one of four Longhorns on the first team. Bush was one of three All-Americans from top-ranked USC and a unanimous first-team selection.

I am not saying ESPN didn't give it a "Bush spin," but it's just a hyperlink, ya know? I am seeing a mt. out of a molehill - and I still don't get your last line from the first post:

It's funny what happens when you get to the real AP story.

Yes - ESPN is hyping the heck out of Bush - kind of makes the point of the thread, which is that Bush is likely to be one of, if not the, most hyped players ever to come out of college foo.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Levin...Actually, if you read on, about 2/3 of the story was about VY, and then a little more about ML, & the rest about RB. Mountain out of a molehill? I don't think so. You're the one who keeps dragging it out by claiming to not understand when it's as clear as the nose on your face. I clearly stated it was not that big of a deal, and just shows an inclination on ESPN's part toward spinning.

Yes - ESPN is hyping the heck out of Bush - kind of makes the point of the thread, which is that Bush is likely to be one of, if not the, most hyped players ever to come out of college foo.

Ummm....yeah. That would explain my lead-in on that post:

Back to the original question...

You selectively twist or ignore aspects of everything I write, then claim to naively "not understand", then accuse me of having an attitude. Attitude? Please. Pot, meet kettle. Chaka...Nowhere did I say Texas would dominate RB or SC. I said they'd make his day tougher than what he's used to this season. That's all. Nothing more. Nothing less. Is that really so hard to admit? He could still have a great day under those circumstances. He could rise to the occasion. It's a dynamic situation. These things don't exist in a vacuum. If you doubt me, then come up with a better defense SC has faced this year.I'll check back this evening...gotta help the Old Man move.

 

[Arm Chair Express]

Let me just say this:

We have seen how Bush can do on the best team in the collegic level.

Lets see what he does on the worst team in the NFL level.

He won't be breaking off 30 plus yards runs 2-3 times a game. That's for sure.

Really ?!?!

Do you really expect him to rush for 10 ypc in the NFL. It would be nice but won't happen! I think he'll be a great back if a team can build around him, but lets be real about it.

I DO expect him to have a good chance at breaking one for over 40 yards EVERY game he is in... I don't know about average yards per carry, depends on his number of carries... in this regard think caddy this year... he springs one over 25 yards in nearly every game... reggie should be as likely to accomplish this...

I see him EXACTLY like LT was/is - on any given play, he could burst through the line or take a short screen and all he has to do is make one LB or one CB miss and he is in the open field - anything from 12 to 72 yards is possible at that point. That's why he will be so valuable on PR/KR, too.

If he's taken #1 or #2 do you really think he'd still return kicks with that much cash on the line?

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Let me just say this:

We have seen how Bush can do on the best team in the collegic level.

Lets see what he does on the worst team in the NFL level.

He won't be breaking off 30 plus yards runs 2-3 times a game. That's for sure.

Really ?!?!

Do you really expect him to rush for 10 ypc in the NFL. It would be nice but won't happen! I think he'll be a great back if a team can build around him, but lets be real about it.

I DO expect him to have a good chance at breaking one for over 40 yards EVERY game he is in... I don't know about average yards per carry, depends on his number of carries... in this regard think caddy this year... he springs one over 25 yards in nearly every game... reggie should be as likely to accomplish this...

I see him EXACTLY like LT was/is - on any given play, he could burst through the line or take a short screen and all he has to do is make one LB or one CB miss and he is in the open field - anything from 12 to 72 yards is possible at that point. That's why he will be so valuable on PR/KR, too.

If he's taken #1 or #2 do you really think he'd still return kicks with that much cash on the line?

He's unranked as a college kr with a mere 17 ypr avg. As a 1st round pick, would it be worth the risk to put him out there returning kicks?If it were me? No. On an NFL team, you prolly have better kr's anyway.

 

[PACKER 7]

Also, for anyone who thinks the Texans will be better off with Reggie does the Detroit Lions mean anything to you?  They drafted all kinds of offensive talent and still have nothing to show for it.  Is Harrington bad, maybe, but until he stops getting beatings like a tied up goat b/c his o-line sux then I can't really judge.  Same would go for Carr.  I believe Carr is not a bad NFL QB, but dude has no blocking and no time.  Even Joe Montana couldn't perform behind that line. 

Texans need Ferguson period, or trade the no. 1 pick if they get it for a multitude of other picks to build a line. 

Bush best fits with the Niners or Jets.  The Niners, imo screwed the pooch last year by not taking a RB from that class in the 1st round.  Now is their chance to make up for that screw up.

So those 5 playoffs appearances and a trip to the conference finals mean nothing. The Barry Sanders era was easiliy the best in Lions history, at least giving them a chance. That's all an individual player or unit can do. The record of having the best LT (or Offensive line for that matter) in football is no different.

Exactly, they mean nothing. Until you get a ring it means nothing. Teams like the Texans shouldn't draft guys like Reggie Bush b/c he wont help them win a championship. That's what sports are about. I'm not taking anything away from Barry, but how come the Lions never got those other players that would have put them over the top to the SB? Football is a team sport. Reggie Bush versus 11 NFL Defensive guys is not sport. Carr needs time to throw, and Davis needs room to run. Draft an OL, then another OL, then another OL, and get a free agent OL until that problem is fixed before you even think about a guy like Bush. JMO.

 

[Chaka]

Chaka...Nowhere did I say Texas would dominate RB or SC. I said they'd make his day tougher than what he's used to this season. That's all. Nothing more. Nothing less. Is that really so hard to admit? He could still have a great day under those circumstances. He could rise to the occasion. It's a dynamic situation. These things don't exist in a vacuum.

If you doubt me, then come up with a better defense SC has faced this year.

I'll check back this evening...gotta help the Old Man move.

I know that you didn't say Texas would dominate 'SC, that's why I did not address that point. You said:

Like I said, Texas likely won't shut him down in the SC offense. To say otherwise would border on ridiculous. But for anyone to say that he won't have a more difficult time than usual against the best defense he's seen all year would be just as ridiculous.

I wanted to know why you think Texas has the best defense Bush and 'SC have faced all season. Texas simply did not face any exceptional offenses this season. I would think that Ohio State, Texas Tech and OK State were the best offensive teams Texas played. Texas didn't face offenses like Oregon, Arizona State, Notre Dame, Fresno State and UCLA, they didn't even come close actually.And most of the teams USC faced also had to play against other top offenses which dramatically effects national defensive rankings (which I think are flawed to begin with) so I cannot say with confidence that Texas has a superior defense to what 'SC has seen this season.

BTW I want to say that I agree with you that Texas has a better defense than 'SC has seen but I am basing my belief on a feeling not on any measurable evidence.

And while I believe that Texas is a hungrier team their defense had better be all it is advertised because USC is far more prepared to handle a shootout than Texas. If USC falls behind early they know they can win, Texas hasn't faced that situation yet.

Is it January 4th yet?

p.s. Props for helping the Old Man!

 

[tick dog]

Haven't read this whole thread, but the single most overhyped player of all-time was hands down Tony Mandarich, IMO. Guys like Peyton, Eli, Vick, Bo, Herschel, even Leaf were hyped as franchise QBs/RBs, yes, but Mandarich was hyped as the greatest OL of all-time. I bet Anthony Munoz, John Hannah, Art Shell and the like were pretty amused by that. And his "bust" vs. "hype" status is only made worse by looking at who the Pack COULD HAVE had in that top 5: Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders, Derrick Thomas.

 

[coolnerd]

Also, for anyone who thinks the Texans will be better off with Reggie does the Detroit Lions mean anything to you?  They drafted all kinds of offensive talent and still have nothing to show for it.  Is Harrington bad, maybe, but until he stops getting beatings like a tied up goat b/c his o-line sux then I can't really judge.  Same would go for Carr.  I believe Carr is not a bad NFL QB, but dude has no blocking and no time.  Even Joe Montana couldn't perform behind that line. 

Texans need Ferguson period, or trade the no. 1 pick if they get it for a multitude of other picks to build a line. 

Bush best fits with the Niners or Jets.  The Niners, imo screwed the pooch last year by not taking a RB from that class in the 1st round.  Now is their chance to make up for that screw up.

So those 5 playoffs appearances and a trip to the conference finals mean nothing. The Barry Sanders era was easiliy the best in Lions history, at least giving them a chance. That's all an individual player or unit can do. The record of having the best LT (or Offensive line for that matter) in football is no different.

Exactly, they mean nothing. Until you get a ring it means nothing. Teams like the Texans shouldn't draft guys like Reggie Bush b/c he wont help them win a championship. That's what sports are about. I'm not taking anything away from Barry, but how come the Lions never got those other players that would have put them over the top to the SB? Football is a team sport. Reggie Bush versus 11 NFL Defensive guys is not sport. Carr needs time to throw, and Davis needs room to run. Draft an OL, then another OL, then another OL, and get a free agent OL until that problem is fixed before you even think about a guy like Bush. JMO.

I am glad that using the 1st pick on the draft one player precludes a team from draft OLmen anywhere else. Too much either/or thinking for my blood. I guess there is some rule that draft Bush keeps you from solving the OL issues another way besides Ferguson (who is just as iffy as Bush as a prospect).

 

[PACKER 7]

Also, for anyone who thinks the Texans will be better off with Reggie does the Detroit Lions mean anything to you?  They drafted all kinds of offensive talent and still have nothing to show for it.  Is Harrington bad, maybe, but until he stops getting beatings like a tied up goat b/c his o-line sux then I can't really judge.  Same would go for Carr.  I believe Carr is not a bad NFL QB, but dude has no blocking and no time.  Even Joe Montana couldn't perform behind that line. 

Texans need Ferguson period, or trade the no. 1 pick if they get it for a multitude of other picks to build a line. 

Bush best fits with the Niners or Jets.  The Niners, imo screwed the pooch last year by not taking a RB from that class in the 1st round.  Now is their chance to make up for that screw up.

So those 5 playoffs appearances and a trip to the conference finals mean nothing. The Barry Sanders era was easiliy the best in Lions history, at least giving them a chance. That's all an individual player or unit can do. The record of having the best LT (or Offensive line for that matter) in football is no different.

Exactly, they mean nothing. Until you get a ring it means nothing. Teams like the Texans shouldn't draft guys like Reggie Bush b/c he wont help them win a championship. That's what sports are about. I'm not taking anything away from Barry, but how come the Lions never got those other players that would have put them over the top to the SB? Football is a team sport. Reggie Bush versus 11 NFL Defensive guys is not sport. Carr needs time to throw, and Davis needs room to run. Draft an OL, then another OL, then another OL, and get a free agent OL until that problem is fixed before you even think about a guy like Bush. JMO.

I am glad that using the 1st pick on the draft one player precludes a team from draft OLmen anywhere else. Too much either/or thinking for my blood. I guess there is some rule that draft Bush keeps you from solving the OL issues another way besides Ferguson (who is just as iffy as Bush as a prospect).

Point taken and you don't have to be sarcastic, but what I'm trying to say is that most likely lower in the Draft, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. they could get a bunch of O-linemen, defensive guys, etc. So if I were the Texans, let the rest of the world fight for Bush and cash that No. 1 pick in for a bunch of picks. Whoever drafts Bush is going to have to pay big time, and I mean big time. Maybe the most money ever given to a no. 1 pick. So why would the Texans blow all that money on one guy when they could use it to get others in the draft, free-agency, etc. That's how you win Championships. Patriots did it, Panthers did it, and I'm sure others have. Point being the Texans have many needs and drafting Reggie Bush doesn't answer one single need they have.

If the Texans only want to sell tickets then draft Reggie, but if they want to make a run at the Super Bowl in the near future (2-3 yrs) then use the power of that No.1 pick to make your whole team better.

Could they draft Reggie and other guys lower sure, but I think value wise they are going to get more for their money to leave Reggie in the barn.

JMO and we don't have to agree, but maybe you can understand my point better now.

 

[coolnerd]

Also, for anyone who thinks the Texans will be better off with Reggie does the Detroit Lions mean anything to you?  They drafted all kinds of offensive talent and still have nothing to show for it.  Is Harrington bad, maybe, but until he stops getting beatings like a tied up goat b/c his o-line sux then I can't really judge.  Same would go for Carr.  I believe Carr is not a bad NFL QB, but dude has no blocking and no time.  Even Joe Montana couldn't perform behind that line. 

Texans need Ferguson period, or trade the no. 1 pick if they get it for a multitude of other picks to build a line. 

Bush best fits with the Niners or Jets.  The Niners, imo screwed the pooch last year by not taking a RB from that class in the 1st round.  Now is their chance to make up for that screw up.

So those 5 playoffs appearances and a trip to the conference finals mean nothing. The Barry Sanders era was easiliy the best in Lions history, at least giving them a chance. That's all an individual player or unit can do. The record of having the best LT (or Offensive line for that matter) in football is no different.

Exactly, they mean nothing. Until you get a ring it means nothing. Teams like the Texans shouldn't draft guys like Reggie Bush b/c he wont help them win a championship. That's what sports are about. I'm not taking anything away from Barry, but how come the Lions never got those other players that would have put them over the top to the SB? Football is a team sport. Reggie Bush versus 11 NFL Defensive guys is not sport. Carr needs time to throw, and Davis needs room to run. Draft an OL, then another OL, then another OL, and get a free agent OL until that problem is fixed before you even think about a guy like Bush. JMO.

I am glad that using the 1st pick on the draft one player precludes a team from draft OLmen anywhere else. Too much either/or thinking for my blood. I guess there is some rule that draft Bush keeps you from solving the OL issues another way besides Ferguson (who is just as iffy as Bush as a prospect).

Point taken and you don't have to be sarcastic, but what I'm trying to say is that most likely lower in the Draft, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. they could get a bunch of O-linemen, defensive guys, etc. So if I were the Texans, let the rest of the world fight for Bush and cash that No. 1 pick in for a bunch of picks. Whoever drafts Bush is going to have to pay big time, and I mean big time. Maybe the most money ever given to a no. 1 pick. So why would the Texans blow all that money on one guy when they could use it to get others in the draft, free-agency, etc. That's how you win Championships. Patriots did it, Panthers did it, and I'm sure others have. Point being the Texans have many needs and drafting Reggie Bush doesn't answer one single need they have.

If the Texans only want to sell tickets then draft Reggie, but if they want to make a run at the Super Bowl in the near future (2-3 yrs) then use the power of that No.1 pick to make your whole team better.

Could they draft Reggie and other guys lower sure, but I think value wise they are going to get more for their money to leave Reggie in the barn.

JMO and we don't have to agree, but maybe you can understand my point better now.

Sorry about the tongue: Actually, we are not that far apart but probably started from the different ends. If there is a really good trade down the Texans would be wise to take it. My feeling is that trades are not as easy or common as fans like for them to be and a team needs to be happy that they are drafting the best player. Also, if their idea is to trade down, the texans need to sell the world that they are drafting Bush and very happy about. Not convinced the Bush is up to the hype, but if you think his downside is Westbrooks then i would have a tough time passing him.

As for selling tickets and keeping fan interest, that could be more of a concern than meets the eye. After the last hom game, word got out that the empty seats at Reliant stadium prompted Bob McNair to basically put the nail in Capers coffin. The thought was that Capers and Casserly are hard working, good men (imo, true) that he want to give a chance to until it was effecting his bottom line. Also, fans in Texas have been more apathetic(sp) than angry at the performance of the Texans.

 

[Helm]

Reggie Bush better than Barry Sanders? I don't think so... so what's the difference? Media

 

[PACKER 7]

Also, for anyone who thinks the Texans will be better off with Reggie does the Detroit Lions mean anything to you?  They drafted all kinds of offensive talent and still have nothing to show for it.  Is Harrington bad, maybe, but until he stops getting beatings like a tied up goat b/c his o-line sux then I can't really judge.  Same would go for Carr.  I believe Carr is not a bad NFL QB, but dude has no blocking and no time.  Even Joe Montana couldn't perform behind that line. 

Texans need Ferguson period, or trade the no. 1 pick if they get it for a multitude of other picks to build a line. 

Bush best fits with the Niners or Jets.  The Niners, imo screwed the pooch last year by not taking a RB from that class in the 1st round.  Now is their chance to make up for that screw up.

So those 5 playoffs appearances and a trip to the conference finals mean nothing. The Barry Sanders era was easiliy the best in Lions history, at least giving them a chance. That's all an individual player or unit can do. The record of having the best LT (or Offensive line for that matter) in football is no different.

Exactly, they mean nothing. Until you get a ring it means nothing. Teams like the Texans shouldn't draft guys like Reggie Bush b/c he wont help them win a championship. That's what sports are about. I'm not taking anything away from Barry, but how come the Lions never got those other players that would have put them over the top to the SB? Football is a team sport. Reggie Bush versus 11 NFL Defensive guys is not sport. Carr needs time to throw, and Davis needs room to run. Draft an OL, then another OL, then another OL, and get a free agent OL until that problem is fixed before you even think about a guy like Bush. JMO.

I am glad that using the 1st pick on the draft one player precludes a team from draft OLmen anywhere else. Too much either/or thinking for my blood. I guess there is some rule that draft Bush keeps you from solving the OL issues another way besides Ferguson (who is just as iffy as Bush as a prospect).

Point taken and you don't have to be sarcastic, but what I'm trying to say is that most likely lower in the Draft, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. they could get a bunch of O-linemen, defensive guys, etc. So if I were the Texans, let the rest of the world fight for Bush and cash that No. 1 pick in for a bunch of picks. Whoever drafts Bush is going to have to pay big time, and I mean big time. Maybe the most money ever given to a no. 1 pick. So why would the Texans blow all that money on one guy when they could use it to get others in the draft, free-agency, etc. That's how you win Championships. Patriots did it, Panthers did it, and I'm sure others have. Point being the Texans have many needs and drafting Reggie Bush doesn't answer one single need they have.

If the Texans only want to sell tickets then draft Reggie, but if they want to make a run at the Super Bowl in the near future (2-3 yrs) then use the power of that No.1 pick to make your whole team better.

Could they draft Reggie and other guys lower sure, but I think value wise they are going to get more for their money to leave Reggie in the barn.

JMO and we don't have to agree, but maybe you can understand my point better now.

Sorry about the tongue: Actually, we are not that far apart but probably started from the different ends. If there is a really good trade down the Texans would be wise to take it. My feeling is that trades are not as easy or common as fans like for them to be and a team needs to be happy that they are drafting the best player. Also, if their idea is to trade down, the texans need to sell the world that they are drafting Bush and very happy about. Not convinced the Bush is up to the hype, but if you think his downside is Westbrooks then i would have a tough time passing him.

As for selling tickets and keeping fan interest, that could be more of a concern than meets the eye. After the last hom game, word got out that the empty seats at Reliant stadium prompted Bob McNair to basically put the nail in Capers coffin. The thought was that Capers and Casserly are hard working, good men (imo, true) that he want to give a chance to until it was effecting his bottom line. Also, fans in Texas have been more apathetic(sp) than angry at the performance of the Texans.

I agree. Tickets could become an important point for the Texans. The financial bottomline might become more important than the on-field one.Hoping they don't do that, but it could happen.

About Bush. The Texans may have to go so far as to actually draft him with the no. 1 pick if they have it and then trade him. It's not out of the question. They definitely have to sell that they want him badly.

To me Bush's ability has nothing to do with if you draft him or not. If the Texans feel they can draft Bush and still have enough money to get other picks and free agents signed then by all means do so. I just doubt that can happen.

LT2 is great, Peyton is great, a good majority of round 1 picks are great, but there are some stinkers too. However, LT2 with all his greatness hasn't lead the Chargers to a SB and Peyton also no SB. Peyton may get that chance this year, but only after the Colts built the real need they had, a Def. There are other examples, but I mean even if Bush turns out to be the greatest of all time, until the Texans address other needs he can't take them to the top by himself.

And yes it would be very, very, very hard to give him up, but I think they have to try.

Do you know the Texans cap situation? Is Carr's deal about up? I think the fact that Reggie could be the highest paid all-time is a big issue for any team drafting him.

 

[coolnerd]

Also, for anyone who thinks the Texans will be better off with Reggie does the Detroit Lions mean anything to you?  They drafted all kinds of offensive talent and still have nothing to show for it.  Is Harrington bad, maybe, but until he stops getting beatings like a tied up goat b/c his o-line sux then I can't really judge.  Same would go for Carr.  I believe Carr is not a bad NFL QB, but dude has no blocking and no time.  Even Joe Montana couldn't perform behind that line. 

Texans need Ferguson period, or trade the no. 1 pick if they get it for a multitude of other picks to build a line. 

Bush best fits with the Niners or Jets.  The Niners, imo screwed the pooch last year by not taking a RB from that class in the 1st round.  Now is their chance to make up for that screw up.

So those 5 playoffs appearances and a trip to the conference finals mean nothing. The Barry Sanders era was easiliy the best in Lions history, at least giving them a chance. That's all an individual player or unit can do. The record of having the best LT (or Offensive line for that matter) in football is no different.

Exactly, they mean nothing. Until you get a ring it means nothing. Teams like the Texans shouldn't draft guys like Reggie Bush b/c he wont help them win a championship. That's what sports are about. I'm not taking anything away from Barry, but how come the Lions never got those other players that would have put them over the top to the SB? Football is a team sport. Reggie Bush versus 11 NFL Defensive guys is not sport. Carr needs time to throw, and Davis needs room to run. Draft an OL, then another OL, then another OL, and get a free agent OL until that problem is fixed before you even think about a guy like Bush. JMO.

I am glad that using the 1st pick on the draft one player precludes a team from draft OLmen anywhere else. Too much either/or thinking for my blood. I guess there is some rule that draft Bush keeps you from solving the OL issues another way besides Ferguson (who is just as iffy as Bush as a prospect).

Point taken and you don't have to be sarcastic, but what I'm trying to say is that most likely lower in the Draft, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. they could get a bunch of O-linemen, defensive guys, etc. So if I were the Texans, let the rest of the world fight for Bush and cash that No. 1 pick in for a bunch of picks. Whoever drafts Bush is going to have to pay big time, and I mean big time. Maybe the most money ever given to a no. 1 pick. So why would the Texans blow all that money on one guy when they could use it to get others in the draft, free-agency, etc. That's how you win Championships. Patriots did it, Panthers did it, and I'm sure others have. Point being the Texans have many needs and drafting Reggie Bush doesn't answer one single need they have.

If the Texans only want to sell tickets then draft Reggie, but if they want to make a run at the Super Bowl in the near future (2-3 yrs) then use the power of that No.1 pick to make your whole team better.

Could they draft Reggie and other guys lower sure, but I think value wise they are going to get more for their money to leave Reggie in the barn.

JMO and we don't have to agree, but maybe you can understand my point better now.

Sorry about the tongue: Actually, we are not that far apart but probably started from the different ends. If there is a really good trade down the Texans would be wise to take it. My feeling is that trades are not as easy or common as fans like for them to be and a team needs to be happy that they are drafting the best player. Also, if their idea is to trade down, the texans need to sell the world that they are drafting Bush and very happy about. Not convinced the Bush is up to the hype, but if you think his downside is Westbrooks then i would have a tough time passing him.

As for selling tickets and keeping fan interest, that could be more of a concern than meets the eye. After the last hom game, word got out that the empty seats at Reliant stadium prompted Bob McNair to basically put the nail in Capers coffin. The thought was that Capers and Casserly are hard working, good men (imo, true) that he want to give a chance to until it was effecting his bottom line. Also, fans in Texas have been more apathetic(sp) than angry at the performance of the Texans.

I agree. Tickets could become an important point for the Texans. The financial bottomline might become more important than the on-field one.Hoping they don't do that, but it could happen.

About Bush. The Texans may have to go so far as to actually draft him with the no. 1 pick if they have it and then trade him. It's not out of the question. They definitely have to sell that they want him badly.

To me Bush's ability has nothing to do with if you draft him or not. If the Texans feel they can draft Bush and still have enough money to get other picks and free agents signed then by all means do so. I just doubt that can happen.

LT2 is great, Peyton is great, a good majority of round 1 picks are great, but there are some stinkers too. However, LT2 with all his greatness hasn't lead the Chargers to a SB and Peyton also no SB. Peyton may get that chance this year, but only after the Colts built the real need they had, a Def. There are other examples, but I mean even if Bush turns out to be the greatest of all time, until the Texans address other needs he can't take them to the top by himself.

And yes it would be very, very, very hard to give him up, but I think they have to try.

Do you know the Texans cap situation? Is Carr's deal about up? I think the fact that Reggie could be the highest paid all-time is a big issue for any team drafting him.

The Texans estimated cap for 2006 is around 78-80 million against a cap estimated between 92-95 million so short term it is not an issue unless a new administration wants to purge veterans. They may have some issues two to three years down the road with some of the contracts given to mediocore players, but that's always hard to project.Overall, the one thing that Casserly has done well is manage the cap. Carr has an 8 million dollar option due by year's end. Unclear if that is the end of the season or NFL year end. IMO, the biggest travesty of this organization is running a QB out for 60 starts and not putting him in a real position to evaluate him. As sorry of an organization that Lions have proven to be, they at least know that Harrington sucks. With Carr, everyone is guessing, including the decision makers.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Hey I got news for you. The Texans are never going to win a Superbowl, no matter who they draft. Same goes for the Lions and Cardinals. So stop arguing about which pick gives them a better chance to win a championship because it's a pipe dream anyway. They would be lucky to win AFC South in the next 10 years, let alone a Superbowl. I would draft whichever player offers the greatest talent potential and the greatest ability to sell tickets and merchandise. That appears to be Bush at this point.And as a Lions fan, I would have given up the chance to win a single Superbowl for the chance to watch Barry all those years. Yes I say give me Barry Sanders over the Superbowl

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I wanted to know why you think Texas has the best defense Bush and 'SC have faced all season. Texas simply did not face any exceptional offenses this season. I would think that Ohio State, Texas Tech and OK State were the best offensive teams Texas played.

Texas' defense is far superior statistically to any defense SC has faced this season. I believe FS was the best at #34 in Scoring Defense. Arkansas was next at #36. Texas was #6 and played 4 teams ranked between #4 and #26.

And most of the teams USC faced also had to play against other top offenses which dramatically effects national defensive rankings (which I think are flawed to begin with) so I cannot say with confidence that Texas has a superior defense to what 'SC has seen this season.

Now...here's the thing...what you were getting at...is Arkansas' defensive points allowed low because the SEC was low-scoring in '05, or because they play good D? Is SC #39 because they play in the Pac-10, where everyone's offense is great or is their defense lacking? Is Texas #6 because their D is just good but they play in a mediocre offensive conference or are the offenses ok, playing in a good defensive conference? Hard to say...kind of a chicken or egg kind of thing, right? So I can understand if you don't want to look at statistical rankings of defenses...but by the same token I could say the same thing about SC's offense...that they simply didn't face any exceptional defenses this season. We could go on like this all day....

BTW I want to say that I agree with you that Texas has a better defense than 'SC has seen but I am basing my belief on a feeling not on any measurable evidence.

We can look at some specific cases, though. You mentioned Texas Tech. They were #4 nationally averaging 42.09 ppg. Against Texas they scored 17. #28 Ohio State avg'd 32.55. Against Texas, in the Shoe, at night, where they never ever lose...yada...yada...22. I've since heard the argument that OSU's O is better now. Well...Texas' D is better now, too. Long story short, Texas held every opponent except one under it's season avg, most by 10 or more points. The exception was Okla St, whom they shut out in the second half. They actually weren't one of the better offensive teams we played, either, if you look at season avg.

Fresno on the other hand, let 5 of it's opponents equal or better their season average.

Yet another way to look at this is personnel. For example, the big game SC had against UCLA was actually a major mismatch in the trenches. UCLA's d-line weighs an avg of what, 260? They got pushed around and worn down by USC's outstanding group. Texas' starting front 4 is fast, yet big and strong, avging about 296, and they constantly rotate the top 8.

USC is far more prepared to handle a shootout than Texas.

How's that? Texas has the #1 scoring offense in the country (50.92 to SC's 50.0).Percentage of rushing plays that went for 10 yards or more:

Texas: 19.3, SC: 19.4. Sounds like a wash....not that I want a shootout, by any means.

Long scoring runs:

Texas: 11 -- 80, 80, 57, 33, 30, 26, 25, 25, 22, 22, 21

USC: 13 -- 76, 50, 46, 45, 45, 42, 41, 36, 34, 32, 29, 24, 21

All but one of the USC scoring runs of 41 yards or more were by Bush (White had the 46 yarder).

Pass plays of 20+ yards:

Texas: 52 out of 188 completions, 27.7% rate (52/296 attempts, 17.6%)

USC: 51 out of 283 completions, 18.0% rate (51/440 attempts, 11.6%)

Long scoring passes:

Texas: 16 -- 75, 64, 64, 55, 45, 42, 35, 32, 31, 29, 27, 27, 24, 21, 20, 20

USC: 14 -- 67, 31, 29, 29, 29, 28, 24, 24, 24, 24, 22, 22, 21, 21

Another wash...let's hope, for the sake of our families and our fingernails, that it doesn't come down to a shootout.

If USC falls behind early they know they can win, Texas hasn't faced that situation yet.

Going back into last year, when Texas was 11-1, they've won 19 straight. Second longest streak to you-know-who. They didn't do that without some comebacks:-In '04, Texas trailed #19 Okie St 35-7 with about a minute left in the first half. The Horns then scored 49 unanswered points.

-The following week at Kansas, Young threw a 21 yard TD strike with 11 seconds left to win 27-23 after converting a 4th & 18 four plays prior.

-Last year's Rose Bowl win was come-from-behind.

-In the 2005 season, at Ohio St, the Horns were down most of the game, then VY threw the game-winner with 2:37 left.

-Texas was down 28-9 to Okla St, on the road. They then scored 38 unanswered points to win 47-28. Ugly, but a W.

-They were also down 15-14 in the 2nd, and 22-21 in the 3rd to aTm, on the road in a very hostile environment. Texas won 40-29....not that I want to fall behind early, by any means.

Is it January 4th yet?

Can't get here soon enough!

p.s. Props for helping the Old Man!

Thanks! Dude's 67. I'm 40, & he can still damn near wear me out.

 

[gump]

If Hershel Walker did what he did in 3 years of college with today's media...- NCAA rushing record- 3rd-2nd-1st in Heisman finish - leading UGA to a NC while memorably running over Penn St...he would be more hyped than Bush...and deservedly so.

 

[coolnerd]

Given some of the nature of this thread this fits...A couple of Texas players under investigation

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3530657.html

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Given some of the nature of this thread this fits...A couple of Texas players under investigation

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3530657.html

Yeah, this just broke in Austin, too. Apparently there's not much to go on here. Sounds pretty lame, frankly. In neither incident were police able to put any players at the scene at all. It was just a case where police were flagged down and someone said "we were attacked and robbed", when asked who did it they said they thought they were Ced Griffin and Ramonce Taylor, coincidentally starters. Funny thing is, I follow Texas football religiously and have for 25 years. I could tell you a lot about both of those 2 guys, but I KNOW I could never recognize one of them walking down 6th Street, esp if I was drunk (most likely) at 3am (both cases).

Before you accuse me of homerism on this, be aware that I advocated suspension of Cedric Benson when he had his run-in with the law, and was 100% for sending Kwame Cavil (a very #1 good wr) packing when he was using illicit drugs.

This story just doesn't seem to have any legs.