Report: Panthers release Foster (1 Viewer)

[JohnnyU]

Headlines

Report: Panthers release RB Foster

The Charlotte Observer reports that the Panthers have released RB DeShaun Foster.

The Panthers had been shopping Foster in recent weeks, but he had a $5.8 million cap number, so it was pretty clear he was eventually going to be released anyway. Feb. 21 - 4:39 pm et

Source: Charlotte Observer

 

[B Maverick]

hello michael turner?

 

[King of the Jungle]

I can see him ending up in Detroit. Detroit has too many holes to fill to draft an RB. Jones and Foster would make one heck of a mediocre backfield. Can't wait.

 

[JohnnyU]

hello michael turner?

Right now I have Michael Turner going to every team in the league

 

[aposulli]

hello michael turner?

I can't believe it took 2 minutes for someone to mention Turner in a random RB thread. You guys are slacking...

 

[B Maverick]

hello michael turner?

I can't believe it took 2 minutes for someone to mention Turner in a random RB thread. You guys are slacking...

ha ha

 

[msommer]

Why is it that Foster is supposed to be replaced by a supposed power back - is it still the ghost of Stephen Davis that is around?

 

[Traders2001]

Michael Turner ... After seeing how he played in the last few Chargers game ( where he started ) i will take my chance with D Williams .

 

[King of the Wolfies]

How many owners are now trying to shop DeAngelo before the draft? I like DeAngelo if given a chance, but I'm wondering if they bring in a replacement back or go for a 3rd/gl type.

 

[switz]

Michael Turner ... After seeing how he played in the last few Chargers game ( where he started ) i will take my chance with D Williams .

Then you haven't watched DeAngelo

 

[g5jamz]

<--- Panthers homer

Sad to see a release versus a workable trade, but the cap price was too steep.

I'm surprised this was done though, because it seems to force the hand when free agency opens.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

All in DeW time.....

 

[JPeso]

Michael Turner ... After seeing how he played in the last few Chargers game ( where he started ) i will take my chance with D Williams .

Then you haven't watched DeAngelo

I have watch this guy overjuke and dance around every Sunday. PLEASE bring in Turner.

 

[maxwelledison]

Michael Turner ... After seeing how he played in the last few Chargers game ( where he started ) i will take my chance with D Williams .

Then you haven't watched DeAngelo

You have been a Foster apologist for too long, Switz. Time to realize he just isn't good.

 

[Yo Eleven]

It appears that the minority view is that this is an endorsement of DeAngelo going forward as the feature back, with someone brought in to complement him. Is this simply due to Fox's comments regarding a return to a power running game or concerns over DeAngelo's talent? I have not seen many Panther's games, so I don't have a valid basis to form an opinion. I do remember DeAngelo coming in and being highly regarded out of Memphis and to see so many questions on him seems a little confusing...

 

[switz]

Michael Turner ... After seeing how he played in the last few Chargers game ( where he started ) i will take my chance with D Williams .

Then you haven't watched DeAngelo

You have been a Foster apologist for too long, Switz. Time to realize he just isn't good.

He's not worth 5.8 million at this point, no disagreement there. But that has nothing to do with DeAngelo.

 

[switz]

It appears that the minority view is that this is an endorsement of DeAngelo going forward as the feature back, with someone brought in to complement him. Is this simply due to Fox's comments regarding a return to a power running game or concerns over DeAngelo's talent? I have not seen many Panther's games, so I don't have a valid basis to form an opinion. I do remember DeAngelo coming in and being highly regarded out of Memphis and to see so many questions on him seems a little confusing...

DeAngelo is great in the open field, but he has ZERO vision, doesn't hit holes well, and dances too much in the backfield. In addition to not being very good at other aspects of the game.Just my $0.02

 

[maxwelledison]

It appears that the minority view is that this is an endorsement of DeAngelo going forward as the feature back, with someone brought in to complement him. Is this simply due to Fox's comments regarding a return to a power running game or concerns over DeAngelo's talent? I have not seen many Panther's games, so I don't have a valid basis to form an opinion. I do remember DeAngelo coming in and being highly regarded out of Memphis and to see so many questions on him seems a little confusing...

DeAngelo is great in the open field, but he has ZERO vision, doesn't hit holes well, and dances too much in the backfield. In addition to not being very good at other aspects of the game.Just my $0.02

We are going to have to agree to disagree on DeAngelo. I simply think John Fox is an idiot and will probably end up working for the Bears once he is fired from Carolina.

 

[travdogg]

I would be SHOCKED if Turner went to Carolina. They have way bigger needs then RB. DeAngelo has earned his shot. Carolina went 6-1 this year when DeAngelo had over 10 carries and he averaged 5 YPC.

I'd be very happy to land him as a RB3 and he might go too high for that.

I'd imagine they will add a power complement too their RB core, but not someone as expensive as Turner. Lamont Jordan would make sense but he might want a shot to start somewhere, so I'd guess either Dayne or Duckett, most likely Duckett.

 

[switz]

It appears that the minority view is that this is an endorsement of DeAngelo going forward as the feature back, with someone brought in to complement him. Is this simply due to Fox's comments regarding a return to a power running game or concerns over DeAngelo's talent? I have not seen many Panther's games, so I don't have a valid basis to form an opinion. I do remember DeAngelo coming in and being highly regarded out of Memphis and to see so many questions on him seems a little confusing...

DeAngelo is great in the open field, but he has ZERO vision, doesn't hit holes well, and dances too much in the backfield. In addition to not being very good at other aspects of the game.Just my $0.02

We are going to have to agree to disagree on DeAngelo. I simply think John Fox is an idiot and will probably end up working for the Bears once he is fired from Carolina.

As I'm geographically bound to the Panthers, I hope they get a good runningback. If DeAngelo provided the answer I'd be thrilled.BTW, as for the Foster apologist comment... can't help it, the guy lives 10 minutes from me. But I liked him as a Bruin, and thought he'd be great in CAR. I think the injuries diminished his game too much though.

 

[VaCatFan]

It appears that the minority view is that this is an endorsement of DeAngelo going forward as the feature back, with someone brought in to complement him. Is this simply due to Fox's comments regarding a return to a power running game or concerns over DeAngelo's talent? I have not seen many Panther's games, so I don't have a valid basis to form an opinion. I do remember DeAngelo coming in and being highly regarded out of Memphis and to see so many questions on him seems a little confusing...

DeAngelo is great in the open field, but he has ZERO vision, doesn't hit holes well, and dances too much in the backfield. In addition to not being very good at other aspects of the game.Just my $0.02

I agree with a lot of what you say Switz. I've been a fan of Carolina since they played in Clemson their first year. Objectively, I think DeAngelo CAN be a good player. As you said, he's got to learn to go forward and stop dancing. I plotted his carries a couple of games earlier this year and if I remember correctly, he had as many if not more carries for zero or negative yards as he did for positive yards and most of those were because he was dancing. When he hits the hole hard by instinct and stops thinking about what he's doing is when you see special things. He's also got to do a better job of picking up blitzes. I watched him get blown up a couple of times in pass protection. He did start to get better towards the end of the year though, but he ain't no MJD. Carolina WILL bring in a complement back. Most likely a pounder/short yardage back. Jerry Richardson has gone on record saying he wants to go back to what made the Panthers successful during their Superbowl run. I think that means we'll see a rbbc ala Stephen Davis/Foster. In the end, I'd love to see DeAngelo become a 13-1500 yard rusher with about 500yds receiving thrown in because as a fan, I think that would be great for us. I just don't think he's going to see that in Carolina because he'll never be "The man".

 

[Couch Potato]

Folks, this is Turner's big chance to land the big contract, he'll have a few suitors to choose from, he's not going to get his best offer from a team looking for him to share duties as a RBBC partner, and the Panthers aren't going to offer a deal to him for feature back money. I think the chances are pretty remote that Carolina will be Turner's destination.

 

[kevinallen]

Like the other poster said, DeW rushed 10 or more times in only 7 games, the Panthers went 6-1 in those games. Coincidence? Maybe, not likely, though.

In those 7 games, 554 yds 98 carries for a 5.6 ypc average with 4 rushing TD's. Not bad for a RB that dances too much, eh? But I'm sure there will be someone to point out these FACTS are somehow a bad thing.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

I still don't think the Panthers will put all their eggs in the DWill basket.

I could definitely see Turner in Carolina, if not, then a Derrick Ward may be a nice fit.

 

[Jeff Haseley]

Carolina will need to find a bigger back to handle the short-yardage and/or goal line plays. They need to find the player that Eric Shelton failed to become. Dare I say Jonathan Stewart at 1.13? Perhaps Matt Forte in the 4th round. Somewhere in the draft I think they will address this need. I don't see them going the FA route for this.

 

[travdogg]

Carolina will need to find a bigger back to handle the short-yardage and/or goal line plays. They need to find the player that Eric Shelton failed to become. Dare I say Jonathan Stewart at 1.13? Perhaps Matt Forte in the 4th round. Somewhere in the draft I think they will address this need. I don't see them going the FA route for this.

Perhaps they draft a bigger back in the 4th or 5th round. Stewart would be a terrible pick. They have at least a half dozen needs that are bigger than RB.Why don't you see them signing a guy like Duckett or Dayne?

 

[Da Guru]

I heard on NFL Radio that the Panthers may look to resign Foster at a much lower salary. I don`t think Foster will be much in demand so he may be back in Carolina next season.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

How many owners are now trying to shop DeAngelo before the draft? I like DeAngelo if given a chance, but I'm wondering if they bring in a replacement back or go for a 3rd/gl type.

He hasn't been given a chance yet with Foster in Carolina? Both of these guys have had plenty of chances. It's not all their fault as their offensive line isn't very good.I think if the price is right for a team, Foster could help fill a RB2 role.

 

[JPeso]

How many owners are now trying to shop DeAngelo before the draft? I like DeAngelo if given a chance, but I'm wondering if they bring in a replacement back or go for a 3rd/gl type.

He hasn't been given a chance yet with Foster in Carolina? Both of these guys have had plenty of chances. It's not all their fault as their offensive line isn't very good.I think if the price is right for a team, Foster could help fill a RB2 role.

DeAngelo owners act like now he will be vaulted in to a solid option. The guy couldn't supplant Foster for 3 years.

 

[Mister CIA]

How many owners are now trying to shop DeAngelo before the draft? I like DeAngelo if given a chance, but I'm wondering if they bring in a replacement back or go for a 3rd/gl type.

He hasn't been given a chance yet with Foster in Carolina? Both of these guys have had plenty of chances. It's not all their fault as their offensive line isn't very good.I think if the price is right for a team, Foster could help fill a RB2 role.

DeAngelo owners act like now he will be vaulted in to a solid option. The guy couldn't supplant Foster for 3 years.

What 3 years are you referring to?

 

[FUBAR]

hello michael turner?

Right now I have Michael Turner going to every team in the league

He's going to be one tired dude

 

[BigJim®]

It appears that the minority view is that this is an endorsement of DeAngelo going forward as the feature back, with someone brought in to complement him. Is this simply due to Fox's comments regarding a return to a power running game or concerns over DeAngelo's talent? I have not seen many Panther's games, so I don't have a valid basis to form an opinion. I do remember DeAngelo coming in and being highly regarded out of Memphis and to see so many questions on him seems a little confusing...

DeAngelo is great in the open field, but he has ZERO vision, doesn't hit holes well, and dances too much in the backfield. In addition to not being very good at other aspects of the game.Just my $0.02

Well I guess that perfectly explains a 5.0 YPC.

 

[Donnybrook]

I still don't think the Panthers will put all their eggs in the DWill basket.I could definitely see Turner in Carolina, if not, then a Derrick Ward may be a nice fit.

I can't see Carolina shelling out $ 5 M per year for Turner. I wonder if they could get Ward for half that.

 

[Jeff Haseley]

Carolina will need to find a bigger back to handle the short-yardage and/or goal line plays. They need to find the player that Eric Shelton failed to become. Dare I say Jonathan Stewart at 1.13? Perhaps Matt Forte in the 4th round. Somewhere in the draft I think they will address this need. I don't see them going the FA route for this.

Perhaps they draft a bigger back in the 4th or 5th round. Stewart would be a terrible pick. They have at least a half dozen needs that are bigger than RB.Why don't you see them signing a guy like Duckett or Dayne?

I don't know, just a hunch I guess. I just don't see GM Marty Hurney and Co. as FA spenders on an older RB with some tread on their tires. Perhaps a rookie pick will be more cost effective and cap friendly. Now Jonathan Stewart wouldn't fall under that category of cheap, but he has the tools to be a solid contributor to the Panthers running game that would then have multiple ways of beating opposing defenses. Something to consider as a first pick, but I can totally see them going with a LT or DE to take care of glaring needs.

 

[BassNBrew]

I heard on NFL Radio that the Panthers may look to resign Foster at a much lower salary. I don`t think Foster will be much in demand so he may be back in Carolina next season.

I don't like you...

 

[Jedimaster21]

It appears that the minority view is that this is an endorsement of DeAngelo going forward as the feature back, with someone brought in to complement him. Is this simply due to Fox's comments regarding a return to a power running game or concerns over DeAngelo's talent? I have not seen many Panther's games, so I don't have a valid basis to form an opinion. I do remember DeAngelo coming in and being highly regarded out of Memphis and to see so many questions on him seems a little confusing...

DeAngelo is great in the open field, but he has ZERO vision, doesn't hit holes well, and dances too much in the backfield. In addition to not being very good at other aspects of the game.Just my $0.02

We always seem to be on opposite sides, Switz. What did I tell you?I have always disagreed with your assessment of DeAngelo, and don't agree with this one either. DeAngelo is explosive, has good vision, and actually hits the hole quite fast. He dances in the open field, but elusive runners tend to do that. He is also an excellent receiver. He had extremely impressive stats last year with limited opportunities, and improved his game in all areas. However, he definitely could improve his blocking consistency, and he is not always the most effective short yardage runner. I would be surprised if they don't bring in another runner for depth, but I would also be surprised if Williams doesn't get a shot to be the lead ball carrier. His biggest issue may be lack of TDs if he is pulled inside the 5.

 

[travdogg]

It appears that the minority view is that this is an endorsement of DeAngelo going forward as the feature back, with someone brought in to complement him. Is this simply due to Fox's comments regarding a return to a power running game or concerns over DeAngelo's talent? I have not seen many Panther's games, so I don't have a valid basis to form an opinion. I do remember DeAngelo coming in and being highly regarded out of Memphis and to see so many questions on him seems a little confusing...

DeAngelo is great in the open field, but he has ZERO vision, doesn't hit holes well, and dances too much in the backfield. In addition to not being very good at other aspects of the game.Just my $0.02

We always seem to be on opposite sides, Switz. What did I tell you?I have always disagreed with your assessment of DeAngelo, and don't agree with this one either. DeAngelo is explosive, has good vision, and actually hits the hole quite fast. He dances in the open field, but elusive runners tend to do that. He is also an excellent receiver. He had extremely impressive stats last year with limited opportunities, and improved his game in all areas. However, he definitely could improve his blocking consistency, and he is not always the most effective short yardage runner. I would be surprised if they don't bring in another runner for depth, but I would also be surprised if Williams doesn't get a shot to be the lead ball carrier. His biggest issue may be lack of TDs if he is pulled inside the 5.

So basically you think DeAngelo could be similar to Willie Parker?

 

[Jedimaster21]

It appears that the minority view is that this is an endorsement of DeAngelo going forward as the feature back, with someone brought in to complement him. Is this simply due to Fox's comments regarding a return to a power running game or concerns over DeAngelo's talent? I have not seen many Panther's games, so I don't have a valid basis to form an opinion. I do remember DeAngelo coming in and being highly regarded out of Memphis and to see so many questions on him seems a little confusing...

DeAngelo is great in the open field, but he has ZERO vision, doesn't hit holes well, and dances too much in the backfield. In addition to not being very good at other aspects of the game.Just my $0.02

We always seem to be on opposite sides, Switz. What did I tell you?I have always disagreed with your assessment of DeAngelo, and don't agree with this one either. DeAngelo is explosive, has good vision, and actually hits the hole quite fast. He dances in the open field, but elusive runners tend to do that. He is also an excellent receiver. He had extremely impressive stats last year with limited opportunities, and improved his game in all areas. However, he definitely could improve his blocking consistency, and he is not always the most effective short yardage runner. I would be surprised if they don't bring in another runner for depth, but I would also be surprised if Williams doesn't get a shot to be the lead ball carrier. His biggest issue may be lack of TDs if he is pulled inside the 5.

So basically you think DeAngelo could be similar to Willie Parker?

They both definitely have a weakness inside the 5, but they don't seem that similar to me. Parker has had some success, but I actually think DeAngelo is a much better player. Better receiver, more elusive, but not quite as fast. Put Williams on the Steelers and he could be better than Parker.

 

[switz]

They both definitely have a weakness inside the 5, but they don't seem that similar to me. Parker has had some success, but I actually think DeAngelo is a much better player. Better receiver, more elusive, but not quite as fast. Put Williams on the Steelers and he could be better than Parker.

Then why on earth couldn't he beat out Foster? According to the majority here - Foster sucks. And apparently, DA is better than a top-10 fantasy RB.Is something wrong with this picture?Just examining his stats...Did you know in '06 his YPC was 4.1? Did you know that on first and second down carries in '07, his YPC is only 4.4, and if you take away his 75 yard run it drops to 3.8? Just trying to put things in perspective. A few gaudy plays do not make a good RB...

 

[switz]

It appears that the minority view is that this is an endorsement of DeAngelo going forward as the feature back, with someone brought in to complement him. Is this simply due to Fox's comments regarding a return to a power running game or concerns over DeAngelo's talent? I have not seen many Panther's games, so I don't have a valid basis to form an opinion. I do remember DeAngelo coming in and being highly regarded out of Memphis and to see so many questions on him seems a little confusing...

DeAngelo is great in the open field, but he has ZERO vision, doesn't hit holes well, and dances too much in the backfield. In addition to not being very good at other aspects of the game.Just my $0.02

Well I guess that perfectly explains a 5.0 YPC.

Actually, third down, and one fluky 75 yard run on a first down explain the 5.0 YPC this year. Last year is was 4.1. Without the 75 yarder, his 1st and 2nd down YPC is a mere 3.8.

 

[kevinallen]

Then why on earth couldn't he beat out Foster?

I think most Carolina fans can explain this with one simple answer... John Fox.

Did you know in '06 his YPC was 4.1?

This is bad, how?

Did you know that on first and second down carries in '07, his YPC is only 4.4,

And this is bad, how?

and if you take away his 75 yard run it drops to 3.8?

While we're at it, what's his ypc when you take away his negative runs? As long as we're taking things out, we might as well be fair.

A few gaudy plays do not make a good RB...

And here's why he deserves to be the starter, he actually CAN create a "few gaudy plays", exactly what Carolina was missing when Foster was playing and exactly what Williams gives them. Longest runs in 07:

FOSTER 20 18 15 13 13 13 13 (five at 12)

WILLIAMS 75 39 35 32 23 22 16 14 14 (two at 13)

This is with Williams having almost 100 less carries on the season.

 

[switz]

And here's why he deserves to be the starter, he actually CAN create a "few gaudy plays", exactly what Carolina was missing when Foster was playing and exactly what Williams gives them.

Longest runs in 07:

FOSTER 20 18 15 13 13 13 13 (five at 12)

WILLIAMS 75 39 35 32 23 22 16 14 14 (two at 13)

This is with Williams having almost 100 less carries on the season.

Here's the problem. And maybe this is where we disconnect... I agree with almost everything you say, EXCEPT that he should be the starter. He's a great COP back, but he's too inconsistent to have your running game rely on. Anyway, word is that the Panthers want to resign Foster, and perhaps add a bigger back. I don't see much chance DA will be the starter.If he is, we'll all get to see whether he's actually starter material or not.

 

[BoltBacker]

Michael Turner ... After seeing how he played in the last few Chargers game ( where he started ) i will take my chance with D Williams .

In the last game where Turner started he had 87 yards on 15 carries. That's 5.8y/c... what would have impressed you?

 

[VaCatFan]

Then why on earth couldn't he beat out Foster?

I think most Carolina fans can explain this with one simple answer... John Fox.

Did you know in '06 his YPC was 4.1?

This is bad, how?

Did you know that on first and second down carries in '07, his YPC is only 4.4,

And this is bad, how?

and if you take away his 75 yard run it drops to 3.8?

While we're at it, what's his ypc when you take away his negative runs? As long as we're taking things out, we might as well be fair.

A few gaudy plays do not make a good RB...

And here's why he deserves to be the starter, he actually CAN create a "few gaudy plays", exactly what Carolina was missing when Foster was playing and exactly what Williams gives them. Longest runs in 07:

FOSTER 20 18 15 13 13 13 13 (five at 12)

WILLIAMS 75 39 35 32 23 22 16 14 14 (two at 13)

This is with Williams having almost 100 less carries on the season.

I can't find it, but do the mean. Take away his top 5 runs and his worse 5 runs. What is his average then? I don't know what it is, I"m just asking. Like I said. Early in the year, I kept track of that and his negative or 0 yard runs were more than his positive yard runs. If he's a consistent runner, then his average should still be good. Anyone up for finding that out? As a full on Panther homer, I'd love to see him become a stud, but realistically, it's probably not going to happen in Carolina. Carolina has always been a rbbc. They've made it to the Superbowl as a RBBC and the Conference championship 3 times as a rbbc. BTW - Only twice in their existence has Carolina had a rb who ran more than 250 times in a season. Both of those seasons resulted in 1000 yard seasons. The last time was Stephen Davis in 2003. He ran 318 times for 1444 yards and a 4.5yd average. You have to go all the way back to 1996 to find the next back to hit 300 carries and that was Anthony Johnson who ran for 1120 yards and a 3.7yd average. Since inception, Carolina's top dog back has averaged 3.8, 3.7, 4.4, 3.5, 5.2, 3.6, 4.0, 3.5, 4.5, 3.8, 4.3, 4.0, and 3.5. Both Davis and Johnson were 6ft, and over 225lbs. Since inception, Carolina's starting rb has averaged 214 carries a year.

 

[switz]

I can't find it, but do the mean. Take away his top 5 runs and his worse 5 runs. What is his average then? I don't know what it is, I'm just asking. Like I said. Early in the year, I kept track of that and his negative or 0 yard runs were more than his positive yard runs. If he's a consistent runner, then his average should still be good. Anyone up for finding that out?

I can do it... I'll post it later today

 

[BassNBrew]

Hey Switz, you realize if you take away AD Peterson's six best runs his ypc is 4.4 like DWs.

 

[switz]

Hey Switz, you realize if you take away AD Peterson's six best runs his ypc is 4.4 like DWs.

Actually, I only took away ONE run, and his YPC on first and second was 3.8, not 4.4...Anyway, here are the results of his full carries....If you take away his 5 best, and 5 worst carries, he has 537 yards on 137 carries giving him a YPC of 3.9.I don't know what the normal percentage for an RB is, but 31 of his 147 carries were for nothing or negative yards, which is 21%. For a back that saw very few 4th down or GL carries, I would guess that's a pretty high number.There is a discrepancy between the number of carries in the game logs and the total number for his end of year totals due to I believe only one carry nullified by penalty. I included this carry in my numbers.Here are the actual carries and results

WEEK	Carry	Yards6	3	-510	4	-41	9	-38	3	-31	3	-25	7	-215	3	-215	15	-216	1	-21	1	-15	3	-19	1	-110	3	-110	6	-111	2	-114	1	-11	4	01	11	02	1	04	1	04	2	06	10	09	4	013	4	015	1	015	12	015	13	016	2	016	4	017	3	017	9	01	6	11	13	11	14	11	15	12	4	12	5	12	7	12	8	13	4	13	8	13	10	13	11	113	3	113	10	113	14	114	2	115	2	115	6	115	11	117	8	117	10	117	12	117	18	13	6	23	9	25	1	26	2	28	4	29	3	212	3	213	12	213	15	213	16	215	7	215	9	216	9	216	10	217	1	25	5	311	1	311	5	313	13	313	17	315	10	316	5	317	4	317	15	33	3	46	7	48	1	48	2	410	2	411	3	411	6	415	5	416	8	417	5	417	20	42	6	53	1	54	3	55	4	512	4	513	6	513	8	515	8	516	7	517	6	52	2	63	5	65	2	66	1	66	6	612	1	612	5	613	1	613	2	613	7	615	4	68	5	710	1	714	3	715	14	716	6	717	11	713	5	813	9	817	13	817	17	817	18	86	4	911	4	91	2	101	5	101	12	105	6	1010	5	101	7	111	8	113	7	116	5	111	10	1210	7	123	2	136	9	1317	7	1317	14	139	2	1412	2	1417	2	142	3	1613	11	2317	16	3215	16	3516	3	396	8	75

An interesting observation, perhaps meaningless... he had 28 carries over #10 in a game (ie, carry 11+) - of those, 19 are 3 yards or less. I would be inclined to say that he can't carry the load, and wears down. However, two of his #16 carries were 30+ yarders (32,35), and one was a 23 yarder.

 

[kevinallen]

Hey Switz, you realize if you take away AD Peterson's six best runs his ypc is 4.4 like DWs.

Actually, I only took away ONE run, and his YPC on first and second was 3.8, not 4.4...Anyway, here are the results of his full carries....If you take away his 5 best, and 5 worst carries, he has 537 yards on 137 carries giving him a YPC of 3.9.I don't know what the normal percentage for an RB is, but 31 of his 147 carries were for nothing or negative yards, which is 21%. For a back that saw very few 4th down or GL carries, I would guess that's a pretty high number.There is a discrepancy between the number of carries in the game logs and the total number for his end of year totals due to I believe only one carry nullified by penalty. I included this carry in my numbers.Here are the actual carries and results

WEEK	Carry	Yards6	3	-510	4	-41	9	-38	3	-31	3	-25	7	-215	3	-215	15	-216	1	-21	1	-15	3	-19	1	-110	3	-110	6	-111	2	-114	1	-11	4	01	11	02	1	04	1	04	2	06	10	09	4	013	4	015	1	015	12	015	13	016	2	016	4	017	3	017	9	01	6	11	13	11	14	11	15	12	4	12	5	12	7	12	8	13	4	13	8	13	10	13	11	113	3	113	10	113	14	114	2	115	2	115	6	115	11	117	8	117	10	117	12	117	18	13	6	23	9	25	1	26	2	28	4	29	3	212	3	213	12	213	15	213	16	215	7	215	9	216	9	216	10	217	1	25	5	311	1	311	5	313	13	313	17	315	10	316	5	317	4	317	15	33	3	46	7	48	1	48	2	410	2	411	3	411	6	415	5	416	8	417	5	417	20	42	6	53	1	54	3	55	4	512	4	513	6	513	8	515	8	516	7	517	6	52	2	63	5	65	2	66	1	66	6	612	1	612	5	613	1	613	2	613	7	615	4	68	5	710	1	714	3	715	14	716	6	717	11	713	5	813	9	817	13	817	17	817	18	86	4	911	4	91	2	101	5	101	12	105	6	1010	5	101	7	111	8	113	7	116	5	111	10	1210	7	123	2	136	9	1317	7	1317	14	139	2	1412	2	1417	2	142	3	1613	11	2317	16	3215	16	3516	3	396	8	75

An interesting observation, perhaps meaningless... he had 28 carries over #10 in a game (ie, carry 11+) - of those, 19 are 3 yards or less. I would be inclined to say that he can't carry the load, and wears down. However, two of his #16 carries were 30+ yarders (32,35), and one was a 23 yarder.

This is the type of RB that Williams is. He's a big-play type runner, that will unfortunately have a few negative runs during a game, but it's the end result that is impressive. It's the type of runner Carolina needed last year, note their 6-1 record on games where Williams had 10 or more carries. He's a threat to take it the distance, he's a threat to rip off a 30 yard run at anytime.

 

[switz]

This is the type of RB that Williams is. He's a big-play type runner, that will unfortunately have a few negative runs during a game, but it's the end result that is impressive. It's the type of runner Carolina needed last year, note their 6-1 record on games where Williams had 10 or more carries. He's a threat to take it the distance, he's a threat to rip off a 30 yard run at anytime.

Let's be fair - here are those games:

GM DA DF

1 15-62 (4.1) 17-94 (5.5)

3 11-47 (4.3) 20-122 (6.1)

6 10-121 (12.1) 17-43 (2.5)

13 17-82 (4.8) 21-58 (2.8)

15 15-61 (4.1) 18-47 (2.6)

16 10-60 (6.0) 4-9 (2.3) <-- loss

17 20-121 (6.1) 11-46 (4.2)

Interestingly, in all the games they won (even when DA did NOT have 10+ carries) Foster also had over 10 carries. And in fact, in the only game where Foster did NOT have ten carries, but Williams did, the Panthers lost.

BTW in '06, the Panthers lost 3 games in which DA got 10+ carries.

I the last three years they've only lost 3 games where Foster received 20 carries.

What this tells me is that when the Panthers stick to the run, they win. When either back is used nearly exclusively, they lose. Neither RB is complete enough on his own, to be the answer. Foster lacks the explosiveness he had pre-injury. DeAngelo isn't suited for the power running, grind it out yards that Foster can handle. Neither is a complete back. Both are needed.

 

[BigJim®]

It appears that the minority view is that this is an endorsement of DeAngelo going forward as the feature back, with someone brought in to complement him. Is this simply due to Fox's comments regarding a return to a power running game or concerns over DeAngelo's talent? I have not seen many Panther's games, so I don't have a valid basis to form an opinion. I do remember DeAngelo coming in and being highly regarded out of Memphis and to see so many questions on him seems a little confusing...

DeAngelo is great in the open field, but he has ZERO vision, doesn't hit holes well, and dances too much in the backfield. In addition to not being very good at other aspects of the game.Just my $0.02

Well I guess that perfectly explains a 5.0 YPC.

Actually, third down, and one fluky 75 yard run on a first down explain the 5.0 YPC this year. Last year is was 4.1. Without the 75 yarder, his 1st and 2nd down YPC is a mere 3.8.

Thanks for the insight. Basically your point is if you remove the dazzling, spectacular plays, he's just sort of average. I'm sure Barry Sanders was a below average RB in your eyes since you get to remove the long runs. Your 1st/2nd down focus seems silly. I'm guessing the vast majority of RBs have less production on 1st/2nd downs since most defenses anticipate the run on those downs. But why let common sense get in the way of a good bias.