Ryan Braun wins Appeal! (1 Viewer)

[shadyridr]

Funny no comments from Mr Pack after that last fact based article. Wheres Mr Packs facts

 

[Sweetcan]

Or...Braun knew who Dino was and payed him off to mishandle the urine sample knowing his lawyer could prove his "innocence"

 

[dparker713]

Funny no comments from Mr Pack after that last fact based article. Wheres Mr Packs facts

You've got an awfully low bar for something to be a fact.

 

[Samuel L Bronkowitz]

I have to phrase this properly so I don't get attacked like normally happens.

I like how many on this board despise the 4 letter network, yet keep linking to them for "facts". They're one of the organizations who have the most to lose at this point. But I digress, I know other outlets have their own conspiracy theories (in that Braun may not be telling the truth etc).

I'm a Brewer fan, yet I think I'm a realist. I'm pretty sure that earlier in this thread (or in the Baseball Forum thread) I agreed that "not guilty <> innocent". I think it is likely that Braun took something. I also think that it is likely something happened with that sample to offer the levels of testosterone (natural AND synthetic) that they are talking about. I don't think we'll ever know. One source says "this" another source says "that". Where does it end? Ultimately he will be labeled a "cheater'. 5, 10, 15 years from now, who knows? Will that change public opinion, I doubt it. He's the 2010s version of Favre in Wisconsin.

I have no argument as a Brewer homer other than he has been consistent with his numbers over 5 years (and according to him >25 negative tests) in the majors. It's not like he went from 10 HRs to 40 HRs etc:

[*]Over 30 HRs except 2010 (25)

[*]Over .300 BA except 2008 (,285 - playoff year)

[*]Over 39 doubles except 2007 (rookie 26 - 113 games)

[*]Over 100 RBIs except 2007 (rookie 97 - 113 games)

[*]6 or 7 3B except 2010 (1)

[*]OPS > .866 every year of his career

[*]OPS+ > 130 every year of his career

Am I cherry picking stats? You tell me. Find a stat that would indicate PEDs. We do not know what caused the positive test except for his own urine. I'll hold judgement, either way, until more facts come out. All I can rely on right now is that he failed a test, won the appeal and his historic stats indicate compliance

 

[Daywalker]

Don't care much if guys do PED's to begin with. Don't care that the abitrater ruled in Braun's favor. I can see the logic.

But Braun was dirty. Fine. Put out a BS statement and stay out of the limelight. Worked for D. Ortiz. But Braun came out guns blazing and lied to us like we are idiots. He has no shame.

Sample showed no signs of tampering. Collector working a 2nd job schleping his kid around is the mastermind?

Horrible advice to have Braun do that press-conference and take the stance he did. Probably not advice he's just a doosh that didn't know when to quit while ahead.

 

[Eviloutsider]

The things that I think are weird is...

1) All players know they are tested in the postseason. Why would Braun be caught then.

2) His testosterone, according to everything I read, was three times higher than the highest they have seen. If he was juicing that much, wouldn't that add some mass maybe?

3) So he knows a test is coming so he takes the most testosterone ever recoreded. Maybe he is just dumb (I doubt) or thinks his masking agent will cover even the most heinous of cheating.

I have no idea and I doubt we will ever know.

 

[cheese]

The things that I think are weird is...

1) All players know they are tested in the postseason. Why would Braun be caught then.

2) His testosterone, according to everything I read, was three times higher than the highest they have seen. If he was juicing that much, wouldn't that add some mass maybe?

3) So he knows a test is coming so he takes the most testosterone ever recoreded. Maybe he is just dumb (I doubt) or thinks his masking agent will cover even the most heinous of cheating.

I have no idea and I doubt we will ever know.

I would lean more towards arrogance than stupidity. Arrogance that proved correct considering they let him off.I think your questions are fair, but the biggest question for me is still this...

Are we seriously supposed to believe in the tens of thousands of MLB and minor league PED tests we have had one "false positive" and that happened to be the MVP of the league?

 

[sho nuff]

I have to phrase this properly so I don't get attacked like normally happens.

I like how many on this board despise the 4 letter network, yet keep linking to them for "facts". They're one of the organizations who have the most to lose at this point. But I digress, I know other outlets have their own conspiracy theories (in that Braun may not be telling the truth etc).

I'm a Brewer fan, yet I think I'm a realist. I'm pretty sure that earlier in this thread (or in the Baseball Forum thread) I agreed that "not guilty <> innocent". I think it is likely that Braun took something. I also think that it is likely something happened with that sample to offer the levels of testosterone (natural AND synthetic) that they are talking about. I don't think we'll ever know. One source says "this" another source says "that". Where does it end? Ultimately he will be labeled a "cheater'. 5, 10, 15 years from now, who knows? Will that change public opinion, I doubt it. He's the 2010s version of Favre in Wisconsin.

I have no argument as a Brewer homer other than he has been consistent with his numbers over 5 years (and according to him >25 negative tests) in the majors. It's not like he went from 10 HRs to 40 HRs etc:

[*]Over 30 HRs except 2010 (25)

[*]Over .300 BA except 2008 (,285 - playoff year)

[*]Over 39 doubles except 2007 (rookie 26 - 113 games)

[*]Over 100 RBIs except 2007 (rookie 97 - 113 games)

[*]6 or 7 3B except 2010 (1)

[*]OPS > .866 every year of his career

[*]OPS+ > 130 every year of his career

Am I cherry picking stats? You tell me. Find a stat that would indicate PEDs. We do not know what caused the positive test except for his own urine. I'll hold judgement, either way, until more facts come out. All I can rely on right now is that he failed a test, won the appeal and his historic stats indicate compliance

What should go a long way to some (but not all, some will always consider him a cheater)...say you get 8 more years of consistent play out of him and no other failed test.Does it prove him innocent? To some it will.

To many it still won't.

 

[greenroom]

For those that are saying why did Braun not dispute the actual results? The reason is very simple, he dd not have to fight that fight. If the process was not followed then that is where you fight the results.

That said there is no way that anyone can say 100% that he was dirty or not.

 

[tom22406]

So neither side is saying that the sample was tampered with and the only claim is that is didn't get to it's destination in the correct amount of time?

Sure sounds like a technicality to me.

And I really don't care either way but this is a very interesting case that has a ton of questions that still need to be answered.

 

[sho nuff]

So neither side is saying that the sample was tampered with and the only claim is that is didn't get to it's destination in the correct amount of time?Sure sounds like a technicality to me.And I really don't care either way but this is a very interesting case that has a ton of questions that still need to be answered.

Braun's side is that we don't know that it was tampered with or not (because they proved the lack of a chain of custody brings in the question of whether something could have been done with it).

 

[Eviloutsider]

Also, for those saying why wasn't he fighting the results, it's pretty much that you cannot ever win that fight looking at the countless others who tried that method. Braun's lawyers went with what they thought would win the fight I would assume.

 

[tom22406]

So neither side is saying that the sample was tampered with and the only claim is that is didn't get to it's destination in the correct amount of time?

Sure sounds like a technicality to me.

And I really don't care either way but this is a very interesting case that has a ton of questions that still need to be answered.

Braun's side is that we don't know that it was tampered with or not (because they proved the lack of a chain of custody brings in the question of whether something could have been done with it).

My understanding is they(Braun side) never contested in the hearing that the sample was tampered with.http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page/OTL-Ryan-Braun/ryan-braun-defense-raises-more-questions-doping-experts

 

[Balco]

The things that I think are weird is...1) All players know they are tested in the postseason. Why would Braun be caught then.2) His testosterone, according to everything I read, was three times higher than the highest they have seen. If he was juicing that much, wouldn't that add some mass maybe? 3) So he knows a test is coming so he takes the most testosterone ever recoreded. Maybe he is just dumb (I doubt) or thinks his masking agent will cover even the most heinous of cheating.I have no idea and I doubt we will ever know.

1. The PED he was using got detected this time.2. No. Not all PED's are the same. Some add mass, some add strength, some give energy.3. Obviously, the players are still ahead of MLB in masking PEDs. (think Barry Bonds). Sometimes the most recent PEDS are discovered by the testers, regardless of masking agents.As to your last statement, that is true. I believe he was a cheater, others will not. And I blame MLB 100% for that.

 

[sho nuff]

So neither side is saying that the sample was tampered with and the only claim is that is didn't get to it's destination in the correct amount of time?

Sure sounds like a technicality to me.

And I really don't care either way but this is a very interesting case that has a ton of questions that still need to be answered.

Braun's side is that we don't know that it was tampered with or not (because they proved the lack of a chain of custody brings in the question of whether something could have been done with it).

My understanding is they(Braun side) never contested in the hearing that the sample was tampered with.http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page/OTL-Ryan-Braun/ryan-braun-defense-raises-more-questions-doping-experts

Because they believed their case would win as is.

 

[Michael Brown]

Braun DID challenge the science?

JGERRITWULTERKENS: confused; so the sheer act of leaving out a sample in the wrong environment by itself raises the testosterone ratio by >3x?

Will Carroll: To vastly oversimplify, yes.

...

Carroll’s sources explain quite explicitly that their failure to keep up with the chain of custody caused a failure in the integrity of the sample. Then, not only was the sample’s validity questionable, but they were able to replicate the results and show how it happened. Thus, not only was it a failure in the process, but in the results as well.

 

[pantagrapher]

Braun DID challenge the science?

JGERRITWULTERKENS: confused; so the sheer act of leaving out a sample in the wrong environment by itself raises the testosterone ratio by >3x?

Will Carroll: To vastly oversimplify, yes.

...

Carroll’s sources explain quite explicitly that their failure to keep up with the chain of custody caused a failure in the integrity of the sample. Then, not only was the sample’s validity questionable, but they were able to replicate the results and show how it happened. Thus, not only was it a failure in the process, but in the results as well.

To vastly oversimplify: I'm not buying it.

 

[Limp Ditka]

I have to phrase this properly so I don't get attacked like normally happens.

I like how many on this board despise the 4 letter network, yet keep linking to them for "facts". They're one of the organizations who have the most to lose at this point. But I digress, I know other outlets have their own conspiracy theories (in that Braun may not be telling the truth etc).

I'm a Brewer fan, yet I think I'm a realist. I'm pretty sure that earlier in this thread (or in the Baseball Forum thread) I agreed that "not guilty <> innocent". I think it is likely that Braun took something. I also think that it is likely something happened with that sample to offer the levels of testosterone (natural AND synthetic) that they are talking about. I don't think we'll ever know. One source says "this" another source says "that". Where does it end? Ultimately he will be labeled a "cheater'. 5, 10, 15 years from now, who knows? Will that change public opinion, I doubt it. He's the 2010s version of Favre in Wisconsin.

I have no argument as a Brewer homer other than he has been consistent with his numbers over 5 years (and according to him >25 negative tests) in the majors. It's not like he went from 10 HRs to 40 HRs etc:

[*]Over 30 HRs except 2010 (25)

[*]Over .300 BA except 2008 (,285 - playoff year)

[*]Over 39 doubles except 2007 (rookie 26 - 113 games)

[*]Over 100 RBIs except 2007 (rookie 97 - 113 games)

[*]6 or 7 3B except 2010 (1)

[*]OPS > .866 every year of his career

[*]OPS+ > 130 every year of his career

Am I cherry picking stats? You tell me. Find a stat that would indicate PEDs. We do not know what caused the positive test except for his own urine. I'll hold judgement, either way, until more facts come out. All I can rely on right now is that he failed a test, won the appeal and his historic stats indicate compliance

What should go a long way to some (but not all, some will always consider him a cheater)...say you get 8 more years of consistent play out of him and no other failed test.Does it prove him innocent? To some it will.

To many it still won't.

That's because 18 year olds take PEDs too. It's not like all of these guys start taking them when they get the call to the show. Many use them to get there.

 

[the moops]

2) His testosterone, according to everything I read, was three times higher than the highest they have seen. If he was juicing that much, wouldn't that add some mass maybe?

It's possible that no one has ever tested that high in baseball, but Don Catlin, the former director for the Olympic lab at UCLA who is considered the father of performance-enhancing drug testing, said he has seen cases that exceeded 100-to-1. A 20-to-1 ratio, he and others said, is not unusual in a positive test.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Funny no comments from Mr Pack after that last fact based article. Wheres Mr Packs facts

First of all you haven't posted any facts, just drivel from writers who know as much as we do about it. Second, it was Friday night and I was out.

My comments are this, the facts show the test protocol was not followed.

The test could have been tampered with, unsealed messed with and resealed. My wife does life insurance physicals and handles urine and blood specimens all the time. She said it wouldnt' be difficult at all to switch or even tamper with a specimen and repackeage it in a new tube if someone wanted to.

My point is, no one knows the truth.

He's passed 25 prior tests and this one had off the charts levels of testosterone. Somehting was off.

There are so many easily masked PEDs that are used, why would he choose one of the easiest ones to test for?

Finally, his stats haven't changed much over the past 5 years. Does this look like the body of a juicer using 3 times the highest level of steroids ever used?

 

[Mr.Pack]

Funny no comments from Mr Pack after that last fact based article. Wheres Mr Packs facts

You've got an awfully low bar for something to be a fact.

 

[Mr.Pack]

I have to phrase this properly so I don't get attacked like normally happens.

I like how many on this board despise the 4 letter network, yet keep linking to them for "facts". They're one of the organizations who have the most to lose at this point. But I digress, I know other outlets have their own conspiracy theories (in that Braun may not be telling the truth etc).

I'm a Brewer fan, yet I think I'm a realist. I'm pretty sure that earlier in this thread (or in the Baseball Forum thread) I agreed that "not guilty <> innocent". I think it is likely that Braun took something. I also think that it is likely something happened with that sample to offer the levels of testosterone (natural AND synthetic) that they are talking about. I don't think we'll ever know. One source says "this" another source says "that". Where does it end? Ultimately he will be labeled a "cheater'. 5, 10, 15 years from now, who knows? Will that change public opinion, I doubt it. He's the 2010s version of Favre in Wisconsin.

I have no argument as a Brewer homer other than he has been consistent with his numbers over 5 years (and according to him >25 negative tests) in the majors. It's not like he went from 10 HRs to 40 HRs etc:

[*]Over 30 HRs except 2010 (25)

[*]Over .300 BA except 2008 (,285 - playoff year)

[*]Over 39 doubles except 2007 (rookie 26 - 113 games)

[*]Over 100 RBIs except 2007 (rookie 97 - 113 games)

[*]6 or 7 3B except 2010 (1)

[*]OPS > .866 every year of his career

[*]OPS+ > 130 every year of his career

Am I cherry picking stats? You tell me. Find a stat that would indicate PEDs. We do not know what caused the positive test except for his own urine. I'll hold judgement, either way, until more facts come out. All I can rely on right now is that he failed a test, won the appeal and his historic stats indicate compliance

 

[the moops]

Why are fans so damn irrational. My god.

Take the exact same circumstances and apply it to an opposing player and Brewer fans are surely not as adamant with their denials

 

[the moops]

Does this look like the body of a juicer using 3 times the highest level of steroids ever used?

BetancourtPerez

Franklin

 

[Mr.Pack]

Does this look like the body of a juicer using 3 times the highest level of steroids ever used?

BetancourtPerez

Franklin

Point taken.

 

[Balco]

Funny no comments from Mr Pack after that last fact based article. Wheres Mr Packs facts

First of all you haven't posted any facts, just drivel from writers who know as much as we do about it. Second, it was Friday night and I was out.

My comments are this, the facts show the test protocol was not followed.

The test could have been tampered with, unsealed messed with and resealed. My wife does life insurance physicals and handles urine and blood specimens all the time. She said it wouldnt' be difficult at all to switch or even tamper with a specimen and repackeage it in a new tube if someone wanted to.

My point is, no one knows the truth.

He's passed 25 prior tests and this one had off the charts levels of testosterone. Somehting was off.

There are so many easily masked PEDs that are used, why would he choose one of the easiest ones to test for?

Finally, his stats haven't changed much over the past 5 years. Does this look like the body of a juicer using 3 times the highest level of steroids ever used?

Wait, you think someone might have tampered with the specimen? Seriously? Does Ryan Braun have enemies or something?

 

[Mr.Pack]

Why are fans so damn irrational. My god.Take the exact same circumstances and apply it to an opposing player and Brewer fans are surely not as adamant with their denials

I agree, but all the evidence points to a lot of doubt.Guilty until proven innocent is not the way all the doubters should be thinking, but it's obvious in this thread, that's exactly how they are thinking.

 

[KingPrawn]

Braun DID challenge the science?

JGERRITWULTERKENS: confused; so the sheer act of leaving out a sample in the wrong environment by itself raises the testosterone ratio by >3x?

Will Carroll: To vastly oversimplify, yes.

...

Carroll’s sources explain quite explicitly that their failure to keep up with the chain of custody caused a failure in the integrity of the sample. Then, not only was the sample’s validity questionable, but they were able to replicate the results and show how it happened. Thus, not only was it a failure in the process, but in the results as well.

Not that it will make much difference though. I alluded to this same report earlier in the thread and was lol'ed by shadyridr, who completely dismissed it because it came from the "Braun camp". Instead, he decides to side with the MLB camp who botched this investigation at every step of the way. And then continues to site links to ESPN clips as evidence of 100% proof that he is correct and labels them as facts. Maybe ESPN has a bias in this story as they were the ones that first reported the leaked information and were complicit in destroying Braun's reputation. Those declaring that Braun is a cheater and only got off because of a technicality should consider this report before jumping to 100% conclusions.

I don't know if Braun cheated or not. Nobody here does and unfortunately we'll probably never know. If this report is true though, the chain of custody and the whereabouts of Braun's urine sample during those 44 hours isn't just a 'technicality'. Unless somebody here can state with 100% certainty that they know exactly where that urine sample was during those 44 hours and how it was handled they have no right to state that Braun is a cheater. This report raises at least a small percentage of doubt that Braun cheated. If the players are held to 100% absolute liability, then MLB's drug testing should be held to the same standard. And if this report is true, and Braun's camp replicated the results, MLB did not meet that standard.

ETA: Braun's sample did not have to be tampered with. If this report is true, the handling of the sample by the part-time urine sample collector could have compromised it.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Funny no comments from Mr Pack after that last fact based article. Wheres Mr Packs facts

First of all you haven't posted any facts, just drivel from writers who know as much as we do about it. Second, it was Friday night and I was out.

My comments are this, the facts show the test protocol was not followed.

The test could have been tampered with, unsealed messed with and resealed. My wife does life insurance physicals and handles urine and blood specimens all the time. She said it wouldnt' be difficult at all to switch or even tamper with a specimen and repackeage it in a new tube if someone wanted to.

My point is, no one knows the truth.

He's passed 25 prior tests and this one had off the charts levels of testosterone. Somehting was off.

There are so many easily masked PEDs that are used, why would he choose one of the easiest ones to test for?

Finally, his stats haven't changed much over the past 5 years. Does this look like the body of a juicer using 3 times the highest level of steroids ever used?

Wait, you think someone might have tampered with the specimen? Seriously? Does Ryan Braun have enemies or something?

I don't know, and never said I think it was tampered with. I said, it's not that difficult to do if someone had motivation to do it. There are a ton of reasons someone might do it. Sure the guy could hate Braun, he could be a gambler and wanted to bet against the Brewers, maybe Braun slept with his GF. Who the hell knows. Do I think any of this happened? I don't know.

My point is WAY too much doubt is here to say for sure. But you people who have had and still have him convicted from the first leaked report are pathetic.

I realize I'm being fished so I will stop now.

 

[Balco]

Funny no comments from Mr Pack after that last fact based article. Wheres Mr Packs facts

First of all you haven't posted any facts, just drivel from writers who know as much as we do about it. Second, it was Friday night and I was out.

My comments are this, the facts show the test protocol was not followed.

The test could have been tampered with, unsealed messed with and resealed. My wife does life insurance physicals and handles urine and blood specimens all the time. She said it wouldnt' be difficult at all to switch or even tamper with a specimen and repackeage it in a new tube if someone wanted to.

My point is, no one knows the truth.

He's passed 25 prior tests and this one had off the charts levels of testosterone. Somehting was off.

There are so many easily masked PEDs that are used, why would he choose one of the easiest ones to test for?

Finally, his stats haven't changed much over the past 5 years. Does this look like the body of a juicer using 3 times the highest level of steroids ever used?

Wait, you think someone might have tampered with the specimen? Seriously? Does Ryan Braun have enemies or something?

I don't know, and never said I think it was tampered with. I said, it's not that difficult to do if someone had motivation to do it. There are a ton of reasons someone might do it. Sure the guy could hate Braun, he could be a gambler and wanted to bet against the Brewers, maybe Braun slept with his GF. Who the hell knows. Do I think any of this happened? I don't know.

My point is WAY too much doubt is here to say for sure. But you people who have had and still have him convicted from the first leaked report are pathetic.

I realize I'm being fished so I will stop now.

Definitely not fishing. And you are 100 % no one knows for certain. And I blame MLB for that. The fact protocol wasn't adhered too warranted the suspension set aside. I believe, based on the results of the test (that we know of, obviously everything has been leaked. I am definitely looking forward to reading the arbitrators written decision when it comes out), that Braun used PEDs. I don't believe that someone decided to tamper with the results. I was just making sure you didn't think so either.

Baseball players cheating is nothing new. It didn't just start with the Sosa/McGwire era. I can't think of a team that hasn't had a cheater on it.

I said earlier, I would love if Braun came out and said he would take a lie detector test and answer the simple question of whether he knowingly took PED's within the last 2 years. As I said earlier, I could care less that his previous tests were clean. Barry Bonds tested positive one time as well.

 

[the moops]

I said, it's not that difficult to do if someone had motivation to do it.

Holy conspiracy.

 

[shadyridr]

Funny no comments from Mr Pack after that last fact based article. Wheres Mr Packs facts

First of all you haven't posted any facts, just drivel from writers who know as much as we do about it.

Did you even read the article? Im gonna guess no

It's possible that no one has ever tested that high in baseball, but Don Catlin, the former director for the Olympic lab at UCLA who is considered the father of performance-enhancing drug testing, said...

Im still waiting for your first fact based post. All I see is rumor and innuendo from ####in Dan Patrick and something your wife said. Did she also dance at a wedding with a torn ACL?

 

[dparker713]

Funny no comments from Mr Pack after that last fact based article. Wheres Mr Packs facts

First of all you haven't posted any facts, just drivel from writers who know as much as we do about it.

Did you even read the article? Im gonna guess no

It's possible that no one has ever tested that high in baseball, but Don Catlin, the former director for the Olympic lab at UCLA who is considered the father of performance-enhancing drug testing, said...

Im still waiting for your first fact based post. All I see is rumor and innuendo from ####in Dan Patrick and something your wife said. Did she also dance at a wedding with a torn ACL?

His wife has as much direct knowledge of this case as Don Catlin.

 

[tom22406]

So neither side is saying that the sample was tampered with and the only claim is that is didn't get to it's destination in the correct amount of time?

Sure sounds like a technicality to me.

And I really don't care either way but this is a very interesting case that has a ton of questions that still need to be answered.

Braun's side is that we don't know that it was tampered with or not (because they proved the lack of a chain of custody brings in the question of whether something could have been done with it).

My understanding is they(Braun side) never contested in the hearing that the sample was tampered with.http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page/OTL-Ryan-Braun/ryan-braun-defense-raises-more-questions-doping-experts

Because they believed their case would win as is.

Yes,I totally get that part which still never explains how the urine was dirty.He got off because of it not following the procedure,not because he proved he was clean.

So the questions still will remain on Braun and always will.

 

[parasaurolophus]

So neither side is saying that the sample was tampered with and the only claim is that is didn't get to it's destination in the correct amount of time?

Sure sounds like a technicality to me.

And I really don't care either way but this is a very interesting case that has a ton of questions that still need to be answered.

Braun's side is that we don't know that it was tampered with or not (because they proved the lack of a chain of custody brings in the question of whether something could have been done with it).

My understanding is they(Braun side) never contested in the hearing that the sample was tampered with.http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page/OTL-Ryan-Braun/ryan-braun-defense-raises-more-questions-doping-experts

Because they believed their case would win as is.

Yes,I totally get that part which still never explains how the urine was dirty.He got off because of it not following the procedure,not because he proved he was clean.

So the questions still will remain on Braun and always will.

Why do you think said procedure exists? Just for the sake of making up rules? Because somebody felt like it? To give fedex more business?

 

[Monkeyface Prickleback]

I said, it's not that difficult to do if someone had motivation to do it.

Holy conspiracy.

Seriously. It could've been gamblers for all we know!!!!!!

 

[greenroom]

So neither side is saying that the sample was tampered with and the only claim is that is didn't get to it's destination in the correct amount of time?

Sure sounds like a technicality to me.

And I really don't care either way but this is a very interesting case that has a ton of questions that still need to be answered.

Braun's side is that we don't know that it was tampered with or not (because they proved the lack of a chain of custody brings in the question of whether something could have been done with it).

My understanding is they(Braun side) never contested in the hearing that the sample was tampered with.http://espn.go.com/e...-doping-experts

Because they believed their case would win as is.

Yes,I totally get that part which still never explains how the urine was dirty.He got off because of it not following the procedure,not because he proved he was clean.

So the questions still will remain on Braun and always will.

Why would it be on braun? When he has proven that the test was invalid? So you cannot prove he did or did not have PED's. We cannot say it was his test or not? Problem is that if you want to think he did it there is nothing that will change your mind. If you are open to the facts of the case that there is reasonable doubt then you will let this go and look at what he does this season.

 

[shadyridr]

Funny no comments from Mr Pack after that last fact based article. Wheres Mr Packs facts

First of all you haven't posted any facts, just drivel from writers who know as much as we do about it.

Did you even read the article? Im gonna guess no

It's possible that no one has ever tested that high in baseball, but Don Catlin, the former director for the Olympic lab at UCLA who is considered the father of performance-enhancing drug testing, said...

Im still waiting for your first fact based post. All I see is rumor and innuendo from ####in Dan Patrick and something your wife said. Did she also dance at a wedding with a torn ACL?

His wife has as much direct knowledge of this case as Don Catlin.

yeah i think ill go with the world renown expert and father of ped testing over some cheeseheads wife whos probably a brewer fan too.

 

[tom22406]

So neither side is saying that the sample was tampered with and the only claim is that is didn't get to it's destination in the correct amount of time?

Sure sounds like a technicality to me.

And I really don't care either way but this is a very interesting case that has a ton of questions that still need to be answered.

Braun's side is that we don't know that it was tampered with or not (because they proved the lack of a chain of custody brings in the question of whether something could have been done with it).

My understanding is they(Braun side) never contested in the hearing that the sample was tampered with.http://espn.go.com/e...-doping-experts

Because they believed their case would win as is.

Yes,I totally get that part which still never explains how the urine was dirty.He got off because of it not following the procedure,not because he proved he was clean.

So the questions still will remain on Braun and always will.

Why would it be on braun? When he has proven that the test was invalid? So you cannot prove he did or did not have PED's. We cannot say it was his test or not? Problem is that if you want to think he did it there is nothing that will change your mind. If you are open to the facts of the case that there is reasonable doubt then you will let this go and look at what he does this season.

As I said before he got off on a technicality and I also said I don't care either way in this case because I'm not a Brewers fan or a baseball fan for that matter.The case is interesting to me which is why I'm commenting on it.You feel good with his name being cleared and that's on you.I still have questions regarding this.

 

[Daywalker]

I like how a floated conspiracey is that the sample may have been tampered with it and that really it is easy to do. Then those criminal masterminds decided to hold onto the sample for 44 hours in order to cover up their tracks instead of just dropping it at FedEx the night they got the sample. Let's tamper with the sample then hold onto it for two days for no apparent reason other then to raise questions.

How can anyone stick up for this guy? One thing to lie but another to hold a press-conference and shove your #### in our faces.

 

[Chairshot]

I like how a floated conspiracey is that the sample may have been tampered with it and that really it is easy to do. Then those criminal masterminds decided to hold onto the sample for 44 hours in order to cover up their tracks instead of just dropping it at FedEx the night they got the sample. Let's tamper with the sample then hold onto it for two days for no apparent reason other then to raise questions. How can anyone stick up for this guy? One thing to lie but another to hold a press-conference and shove your #### in our faces.

I pretty much feel this way, as well. If I was going to tamper with a player's drug test, I would want the process to go off without a hitch. I surely wouldn't dirty up a sample and THEN hold on to it for 2 days. And I would definitely know when FedEx closed and I would have documented every step of the process so that nothing could come back on me.This guy didn't do that. It looks much, much more like he didn't realize the way he did it was wrong.Braun is a bit of a hypocrite, I think, in the way he is presenting himself. He cries that he's unjustly accused. But then he goes ahead and drops all these hints about how the integrity of the sample is compromised. He won't come right out and say the sample has been tampered with, but he clearly is trying to lead people to believe that it was. I don't really get it. You won. Just keep your mouth shut and go about your business. There is nothing to gain by holding press conferences.ETA: I also find it hard to believe that this type of "delay" hasn't happened before. It wouldn't surprise me at all if we find out that it's not uncommon for a collector to hold on to a sample until FedEx opens.

 

[dparker713]

yeah i think ill go with the world renown expert and father of ped testing over some cheeseheads wife whos probably a brewer fan too.

The point is that neither of them is providing you with any facts about this case. Merely background information and speculation.

 

[dparker713]

As I said before he got off on a technicality and I also said I don't care either way in this case because I'm not a Brewers fan or a baseball fan for that matter.The case is interesting to me which is why I'm commenting on it.You feel good with his name being cleared and that's on you.I still have questions regarding this.

Why do you suppose technicalities result in a lack of punishment?

 

[dparker713]

Just keep your mouth shut and go about your business. There is nothing to gain by holding press conferences.

He'd be getting killed right now if he didn't address the media.

 

[Chairshot]

Just keep your mouth shut and go about your business. There is nothing to gain by holding press conferences.

He'd be getting killed right now if he didn't address the media.

He's not getting killed right now as it is?ETA: You know, I guess I can understand a desire to address the media in some form. But drop the "I'm a victim" stuff. No one is buying the martyr act.

 

[Daywalker]

Just keep your mouth shut and go about your business. There is nothing to gain by holding press conferences.

He'd be getting killed right now if he didn't address the media.

Difference between being A. Pettite and D. Oritz then R. Palmerio is the finger wagging. Take your medicine. Braun was going to get killed by the media either way. How you handle that makes all the difference. Braun screwed the pooch.

 

[Johnnymac]

Braun is guilty in my mind. I mean, its naive to think that the sample was tampered with, etc... But, the protocol was not followed for whatever reason. Im willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because I think alot of players are using. I guess my point is he got off and baseball needs to clear up the protocol. But, make no mistake about it, he is guilty of using PEDS. If you think otherwise, you are a homer or just plain stupid.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Braun is guilty in my mind. I mean, its naive to think that the sample was tampered with, etc... But, the protocol was not followed for whatever reason. Im willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because I think alot of players are using. I guess my point is he got off and baseball needs to clear up the protocol. But, make no mistake about it, he is guilty of using PEDS. If you think otherwise, you are a homer or just plain stupid.

Absolutely. STD Medication is used by numerous ball players to enhance their performance. Back during the McGwire/Sosa home run days they use to juice up on it several times before each game, which is why they got so big. You've seen before and after pictures of Barry Bonds? You got it - STD medication. Its the King of PEDs.

 

[Chairshot]

Braun is guilty in my mind. I mean, its naive to think that the sample was tampered with, etc... But, the protocol was not followed for whatever reason. Im willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because I think alot of players are using. I guess my point is he got off and baseball needs to clear up the protocol. But, make no mistake about it, he is guilty of using PEDS. If you think otherwise, you are a homer or just plain stupid.

Absolutely. STD Medication is used by numerous ball players to enhance their performance. Back during the McGwire/Sosa home run days they use to juice up on it several times before each game, which is why they got so big. You've seen before and after pictures of Barry Bonds? You got it - STD medication. Its the King of PEDs.

Which STD medication shows up on a drug test as synthetic testosterone and elevates your testosterone to 20 times the normal levels?

 

[MaxThreshold]

Braun is guilty in my mind. I mean, its naive to think that the sample was tampered with, etc... But, the protocol was not followed for whatever reason. Im willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because I think alot of players are using. I guess my point is he got off and baseball needs to clear up the protocol. But, make no mistake about it, he is guilty of using PEDS. If you think otherwise, you are a homer or just plain stupid.

Absolutely. STD Medication is used by numerous ball players to enhance their performance. Back during the McGwire/Sosa home run days they use to juice up on it several times before each game, which is why they got so big. You've seen before and after pictures of Barry Bonds? You got it - STD medication. Its the King of PEDs.

Which STD medication shows up on a drug test as synthetic testosterone and elevates your testosterone to 20 times the normal levels?

I wouldn't know. Aren't you taking STD medication? Can't you tell us?