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Ryan Mathews & Mike Tolbert, RBs, San Diego Chargers (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jason Wood
- Start date
Grahamburn
Footballguy
He sure doesn't look out of shape..
Tau837
Footballguy
MacGruber
Footballguy
**HOMER ALERT!**
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
more confirmation of earlier report
I’m pretty sure it’s too early to call Chargers RB Ryan Mathews a bust. Despite the fact he was a first-round pick in 2010, he didn’t have a great rookie season (though I wouldn’t exactly call it disastrous, either).
He only managed 158 carries for 678 yards -- he missed five games because of a high ankle sprain -- but when he was playing, Mathews looked solid (albeit, he left open the door for Mike Tolbert to impress some people).
This season hasn’t gone well so far either.
Mathews has been hobbled by a slightly strained muscle in his upper thigh, and the San Diego Union Tribunewrites that Mathews will miss Thursday’s preseason opener after having not participated in four practices this training camp.
"In the early preseason games, we always err on the side of caution," Norv Turner said.
Turner also expressed confidence that Mathews will be fine. But still, it makes you wonder about Mathews’ durability.
For more NFL news, rumors and analysis, follow @EyeOnNFL on Twitter and subscribe to our RSS Feed.
I’m pretty sure it’s too early to call Chargers RB Ryan Mathews a bust. Despite the fact he was a first-round pick in 2010, he didn’t have a great rookie season (though I wouldn’t exactly call it disastrous, either).
He only managed 158 carries for 678 yards -- he missed five games because of a high ankle sprain -- but when he was playing, Mathews looked solid (albeit, he left open the door for Mike Tolbert to impress some people).
This season hasn’t gone well so far either.
Mathews has been hobbled by a slightly strained muscle in his upper thigh, and the San Diego Union Tribunewrites that Mathews will miss Thursday’s preseason opener after having not participated in four practices this training camp.
"In the early preseason games, we always err on the side of caution," Norv Turner said.
Turner also expressed confidence that Mathews will be fine. But still, it makes you wonder about Mathews’ durability.
For more NFL news, rumors and analysis, follow @EyeOnNFL on Twitter and subscribe to our RSS Feed.
Tau837
Footballguy
Looking closely at last season, Mathews missed 4 games due to the high ankle sprain, and he missed a total of about 6 quarters of play in the other games, leaving two games early due to the initial sprain (week 2), and reaggravating it (week 9), plus missing a quarter in week 8 after he took a shot that knocked off his helmet. So he played about 10.5 games.
Scaling his numbers to 16 games yields these numbers: 241/1034/11 rushing and 34/224/0. That's 191.8 fantasy points (FBG scoring), which last year would have ranked as the #14 RB. I realize there are issues with scaling numbers, but it gives a feel for the level of his performance, which I suspect was actually better than most people realize.
And that was despite a number of factors that depressed his numbers beyond just the missed time:
1. He played a number of games at less than 100% due to the ankle.
2. Once he got hurt in week 2, he missed the majority of the team's practices the rest of the season, which kept him from improving as much as he might have over the course of his rookie season.
3. Sproles was the third down back and got 75 targets in the passing game.
4. Tolbert emerged and earned a larger share of the workload.
So his numbers could have been better than those scaled numbers. And only the last of those factors is an issue going forward.
While I think Mathews should be good in short yardage, I think Tolbert has earned the short yardage and goal line carries with his play last year. But Mathews scored 7 TDs in limited action last year, with none coming from inside the 5 and only one from inside the 10. So he can still reach double digit TDs without getting the goal line work.
Sproles is gone, and there is no obvious third down back replacement, so I expect those targets to get split up among the RBs. That means more for both Mathews and Tolbert IMO.
Let's talk about the Chargers offense briefly. Here is how the Chargers have ranked in RB rushing attempts since Norv arrived:
2007 - 440, #5 in NFL
2008 - 383, #17 in NFL
2009 - 385, #15 in NFL
2010 - 418, #7 in NFL
Last year, the Chargers ran 1039 plays from scrimmage, and they trailed on 470 (45.2%) of those plays. When leading or tied (combined), the Chargers ran 56% of the time (308 rushing attempts in 548 plays). When trailing, the Chargers ran 31% of the time (149 rushing attempts in 487 plays). Nothing too surprising there. However, I expect the Chargers to spend a bit less time trailing this year, due to improved special teams play, among other reasons. That would suggest more rushing attempts. However, improved special teams, trailing less, passing less, and running more may lead to running fewer plays from scrimmage. I could assume these factors will offset, but I think the running game is going to perform well this year, and I think that could lead to an uptick in rushing attempts. I'm going to go with 425 rushing attempts for the RBs.
Last year, the RB carries broke down like this:
182 Tolbert
158 Mathews
50 Sproles
26 Hester
2 Brinkley
Based on all the factors I have discussed so far, I will project the carries to break down as follows:
240 Mathews
150 Tolbert
25 Hester
10 Others
Here is the number of Chargers passing attempts since Norv arrived:
2007 - 471, #26 in the NFL
2008 - 478, #25 in the NFL
2009 - 519, #23 in the NFL
2010 - 544, #14 in the NFL
The upward trend corresponds with Rivers' improvement and the decline of the Chargers' running game (i.e., Tomlinson's decline followed by the injury issues for Mathews last year). Still, for reasons already mentioned, I think the passing attempts were forced up last year and will likely come back down a bit. I'll project 510 attempts.
Here is the number of RB targets since Norv arrived:
2007 - 120 (25.5% of passing attempts)
2008 - 138 (28.9% of passing attempts)
2009 - 127 (24.5% of passing attempts)
2010 - 154 (28.3% of passing attempts)
With Sproles gone and with the best group of WRs since Rivers has been in San Diego, I think we can assume the percentage of RB targets drops a bit. But it is a staple of the offense. I don't see it dropping below 24%, which would be the lowest of Norv's tenure, so that's what I'll project. On 510 attempts, that means 122 RB targets.
Last year, Tolbert had 27 targets, Mathews and Hester each had 26. As mentioned earlier, Sproles had 75. I'll project the RB targets to break down like this:
60 Mathews
35 Tolbert
25 Hester
2 Others
Last year, Mathews caught 22 of 26 targets (85%), and Tolbert caught 25 of 27 (93%). Sproles was lower, at 79%. I'll project Mathews and Tolbert at 80% each, with the expectation that they could each do a bit better than that.
That was a very long buildup, and I'll now put it all together to project Mathews and Tolbert:
Mathews 240/1080/10 rushing (4.5 ypc) and 48/345/1 receiving (7.2 ypr) on 60 targets = 208.5 fantasy points
Tolbert 150/600/10 rushing (4.0 ypc) and 28/224/0 receiving (8.0 ypr) on 35 targets = 142.4 fantasy points
Note that these projections assume 16 games played for each of them (and the other key offensive players, like Rivers).
I think both of them should be good value, and it would be an excellent duo to pair up on a fantasy team, since if one gets hurt, the other could easily perform as a top 10 RB. In particular, I think if Mathews shines early, there is upside above this projection, as he could earn a larger workload.
Scaling his numbers to 16 games yields these numbers: 241/1034/11 rushing and 34/224/0. That's 191.8 fantasy points (FBG scoring), which last year would have ranked as the #14 RB. I realize there are issues with scaling numbers, but it gives a feel for the level of his performance, which I suspect was actually better than most people realize.
And that was despite a number of factors that depressed his numbers beyond just the missed time:
1. He played a number of games at less than 100% due to the ankle.
2. Once he got hurt in week 2, he missed the majority of the team's practices the rest of the season, which kept him from improving as much as he might have over the course of his rookie season.
3. Sproles was the third down back and got 75 targets in the passing game.
4. Tolbert emerged and earned a larger share of the workload.
So his numbers could have been better than those scaled numbers. And only the last of those factors is an issue going forward.
While I think Mathews should be good in short yardage, I think Tolbert has earned the short yardage and goal line carries with his play last year. But Mathews scored 7 TDs in limited action last year, with none coming from inside the 5 and only one from inside the 10. So he can still reach double digit TDs without getting the goal line work.
Sproles is gone, and there is no obvious third down back replacement, so I expect those targets to get split up among the RBs. That means more for both Mathews and Tolbert IMO.
Let's talk about the Chargers offense briefly. Here is how the Chargers have ranked in RB rushing attempts since Norv arrived:
2007 - 440, #5 in NFL
2008 - 383, #17 in NFL
2009 - 385, #15 in NFL
2010 - 418, #7 in NFL
Last year, the Chargers ran 1039 plays from scrimmage, and they trailed on 470 (45.2%) of those plays. When leading or tied (combined), the Chargers ran 56% of the time (308 rushing attempts in 548 plays). When trailing, the Chargers ran 31% of the time (149 rushing attempts in 487 plays). Nothing too surprising there. However, I expect the Chargers to spend a bit less time trailing this year, due to improved special teams play, among other reasons. That would suggest more rushing attempts. However, improved special teams, trailing less, passing less, and running more may lead to running fewer plays from scrimmage. I could assume these factors will offset, but I think the running game is going to perform well this year, and I think that could lead to an uptick in rushing attempts. I'm going to go with 425 rushing attempts for the RBs.
Last year, the RB carries broke down like this:
182 Tolbert
158 Mathews
50 Sproles
26 Hester
2 Brinkley
Based on all the factors I have discussed so far, I will project the carries to break down as follows:
240 Mathews
150 Tolbert
25 Hester
10 Others
Here is the number of Chargers passing attempts since Norv arrived:
2007 - 471, #26 in the NFL
2008 - 478, #25 in the NFL
2009 - 519, #23 in the NFL
2010 - 544, #14 in the NFL
The upward trend corresponds with Rivers' improvement and the decline of the Chargers' running game (i.e., Tomlinson's decline followed by the injury issues for Mathews last year). Still, for reasons already mentioned, I think the passing attempts were forced up last year and will likely come back down a bit. I'll project 510 attempts.
Here is the number of RB targets since Norv arrived:
2007 - 120 (25.5% of passing attempts)
2008 - 138 (28.9% of passing attempts)
2009 - 127 (24.5% of passing attempts)
2010 - 154 (28.3% of passing attempts)
With Sproles gone and with the best group of WRs since Rivers has been in San Diego, I think we can assume the percentage of RB targets drops a bit. But it is a staple of the offense. I don't see it dropping below 24%, which would be the lowest of Norv's tenure, so that's what I'll project. On 510 attempts, that means 122 RB targets.
Last year, Tolbert had 27 targets, Mathews and Hester each had 26. As mentioned earlier, Sproles had 75. I'll project the RB targets to break down like this:
60 Mathews
35 Tolbert
25 Hester
2 Others
Last year, Mathews caught 22 of 26 targets (85%), and Tolbert caught 25 of 27 (93%). Sproles was lower, at 79%. I'll project Mathews and Tolbert at 80% each, with the expectation that they could each do a bit better than that.
That was a very long buildup, and I'll now put it all together to project Mathews and Tolbert:
Mathews 240/1080/10 rushing (4.5 ypc) and 48/345/1 receiving (7.2 ypr) on 60 targets = 208.5 fantasy points
Tolbert 150/600/10 rushing (4.0 ypc) and 28/224/0 receiving (8.0 ypr) on 35 targets = 142.4 fantasy points
Note that these projections assume 16 games played for each of them (and the other key offensive players, like Rivers).
I think both of them should be good value, and it would be an excellent duo to pair up on a fantasy team, since if one gets hurt, the other could easily perform as a top 10 RB. In particular, I think if Mathews shines early, there is upside above this projection, as he could earn a larger workload.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
I agree that they are going to be ahead more this year. They are going to run a little more and Sproles is out of the picture. There will be plenty for both backs, but all it will take is a couple of "wow" runs by Mathews to give him the larger percentage of carries.If you are going to draft one, try to draft both. If one gets hurt, the other will be HUGE on gameday.Looking closely at last season, Mathews missed 4 games due to the high ankle sprain, and he missed a total of about 6 quarters of play in the other games, leaving two games early due to the initial sprain (week 2), and reaggravating it (week 9), plus missing a quarter in week 8 after he took a shot that knocked off his helmet. So he played about 10.5 games.Scaling his numbers to 16 games yields these numbers: 241/1034/11 rushing and 34/224/0. That's 191.8 fantasy points (FBG scoring), which last year would have ranked as the #14 RB. I realize there are issues with scaling numbers, but it gives a feel for the level of his performance, which I suspect was actually better than most people realize.And that was despite a number of factors that depressed his numbers beyond just the missed time:1. He played a number of games at less than 100% due to the ankle.2. Once he got hurt in week 2, he missed the majority of the team's practices the rest of the season, which kept him from improving as much as he might have over the course of his rookie season.3. Sproles was the third down back and got 75 targets in the passing game.4. Tolbert emerged and earned a larger share of the workload.So his numbers could have been better than those scaled numbers. And only the last of those factors is an issue going forward.While I think Mathews should be good in short yardage, I think Tolbert has earned the short yardage and goal line carries with his play last year. But Mathews scored 7 TDs in limited action last year, with none coming from inside the 5 and only one from inside the 10. So he can still reach double digit TDs without getting the goal line work.Sproles is gone, and there is no obvious third down back replacement, so I expect those targets to get split up among the RBs. That means more for both Mathews and Tolbert IMO.Let's talk about the Chargers offense briefly. Here is how the Chargers have ranked in RB rushing attempts since Norv arrived:2007 - 440, #5 in NFL2008 - 383, #17 in NFL2009 - 385, #15 in NFL2010 - 418, #7 in NFLLast year, the Chargers ran 1039 plays from scrimmage, and they trailed on 470 (45.2%) of those plays. When leading or tied (combined), the Chargers ran 56% of the time (308 rushing attempts in 548 plays). When trailing, the Chargers ran 31% of the time (149 rushing attempts in 487 plays). Nothing too surprising there. However, I expect the Chargers to spend a bit less time trailing this year, due to improved special teams play, among other reasons. That would suggest more rushing attempts. However, improved special teams, trailing less, passing less, and running more may lead to running fewer plays from scrimmage. I could assume these factors will offset, but I think the running game is going to perform well this year, and I think that could lead to an uptick in rushing attempts. I'm going to go with 425 rushing attempts for the RBs.Last year, the RB carries broke down like this:182 Tolbert158 Mathews50 Sproles26 Hester2 BrinkleyBased on all the factors I have discussed so far, I will project the carries to break down as follows:240 Mathews150 Tolbert25 Hester10 OthersHere is the number of Chargers passing attempts since Norv arrived:2007 - 471, #26 in the NFL2008 - 478, #25 in the NFL2009 - 519, #23 in the NFL2010 - 544, #14 in the NFLThe upward trend corresponds with Rivers' improvement and the decline of the Chargers' running game (i.e., Tomlinson's decline followed by the injury issues for Mathews last year). Still, for reasons already mentioned, I think the passing attempts were forced up last year and will likely come back down a bit. I'll project 510 attempts.Here is the number of RB targets since Norv arrived:2007 - 120 (25.5% of passing attempts)2008 - 138 (28.9% of passing attempts)2009 - 127 (24.5% of passing attempts)2010 - 154 (28.3% of passing attempts)With Sproles gone and with the best group of WRs since Rivers has been in San Diego, I think we can assume the percentage of RB targets drops a bit. But it is a staple of the offense. I don't see it dropping below 24%, which would be the lowest of Norv's tenure, so that's what I'll project. On 510 attempts, that means 122 RB targets.Last year, Tolbert had 27 targets, Mathews and Hester each had 26. As mentioned earlier, Sproles had 75. I'll project the RB targets to break down like this:60 Mathews35 Tolbert25 Hester2 OthersLast year, Mathews caught 22 of 26 targets (85%), and Tolbert caught 25 of 27 (93%). Sproles was lower, at 79%. I'll project Mathews and Tolbert at 80% each, with the expectation that they could each do a bit better than that.That was a very long buildup, and I'll now put it all together to project Mathews and Tolbert:Mathews 240/1080/10 rushing (4.5 ypc) and 48/345/1 receiving (7.2 ypr) on 60 targets = 208.5 fantasy pointsTolbert 150/600/10 rushing (4.0 ypc) and 28/224/0 receiving (8.0 ypr) on 35 targets = 142.4 fantasy pointsNote that these projections assume 16 games played for each of them (and the other key offensive players, like Rivers).I think both of them should be good value, and it would be an excellent duo to pair up on a fantasy team, since if one gets hurt, the other could easily perform as a top 10 RB. In particular, I think if Mathews shines early, there is upside above this projection, as he could earn a larger workload.
A lot of has been made of Mathews seven touchdowns from outside the five last year, but it should be pointed out that two of those came well into the second half of games that Mike Tolbert had already gotten the early feature back load and Mathews was mopping up with 24 point leads. Three more came against a discombobulated Denver team in a meaningless week 17 game. A sixth came only after Tolbert left with a scary neck injury in week 16 vs Cincinnati.
kutta
Footballguy
That's interesting.
I think he was joking? I like Tolbert and think he'll be sneaky good this year, but he's not going to shoulder the load as a feature RB unless Matthews fizzles out or is hurt.
Didn't want to quote the whole thing, but great statistical breakdown. Just when I was getting sick of sifting through thread after thread of baseless opinions, ignorant analysis, and thinly veiled AC topics... Eh, I'll stop there, but just wanted to give some props for a great post. I'm sure it took some time, but it does not go unappreciated.
Plays that happen when a game is out of hand or in a meaningless week 17 game where neither team is playing for anything have less predictive value than plays when something hangs in balance.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Great post. That being said, this situation is about as clear as mud. Good to hear Mathews says he feels 100%, but I still doubt he plays Thursday.I do expect Mathews to be the lead back, but Tolbert clearly isn't going away. We've seen several times before that there's enough room for two running backs on one team to have value and be fantasy relevant, especially on an offense as dynamic as the Chargers'. Target them both. 
Tau837
Footballguy
I think there is some truth to this. However:1. I must ask if you similarly downgrade other players for this. I can't recall ever seeing you make this point about another player.
2. More importantly, let's step away from last year's stats. Are you down on Mathews' ability or opportunity or both? On this point about long TDs, do you not believe he has the ability to score from distance when "something hangs in the balance"?
Tau837
Footballguy
The Chargers drafted Mathews to be a 3 down back. I think he is talented enough to fill that role, and I think it is only a matter of time before they give him that chance. Whether or not he opens the season playing on 3rd downs, I think he will end the season playing on 3rd downs.
Tau837
Footballguy
His primary role in 2008-2009 was to play fullback. That is why his carry to reception ratio looked like that. Last year's ratio is more indicative of what to expect in his expanded role IMO: 182 carries to 25 receptions.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
As usual Bloom does a good job illustrating the risks involved in situations where there is uncertainty. Most if not all of his points have merit and should be taken into consideration when assessing Charger backs.
That being said, this is EXACTLY the kind of post hype situation that leads to major value steals. Uber talented 1st round Ferrari comes in, experiences a few injuries, and the undrafted fullback fills in temporarily and exceeds all expectations. Mathews' aggregate numbers were a big disappointment to fantasy owners who used a late 1st/early 2nd round pick on him last year, yet deeper analysis indicates that Mathews was extremely productive when actually on the field. To top it off, Mathews isn't in game shape when he reports to camp this summer, thus leading to further rumor/innuendo that he's a "bust". All of these factors push Mathews' stock lower.
Look folks, anything can happen. 7 2 off suit cracks AA sometimes. But if you have to put your chips on a horse, its an absolute no brainer. It takes about 30 seconds of watching the two to understand why one guy is the total package and the other wasn't even drafted.
Prediction: Next years spotlight for the Chargers RB will be "Ryan Mathews", with little to no mention of Mike Tolbert. And many will be kicking themselves for passing on Mathews in the 3rd round wondering "why did I think a 5'9, 243 lb, undrafted fullback was really going to beat out a beast like Mathews??!?"
Saddle up fellas. The train is leaving the station in a few weeks. Choo-chooo!
That being said, this is EXACTLY the kind of post hype situation that leads to major value steals. Uber talented 1st round Ferrari comes in, experiences a few injuries, and the undrafted fullback fills in temporarily and exceeds all expectations. Mathews' aggregate numbers were a big disappointment to fantasy owners who used a late 1st/early 2nd round pick on him last year, yet deeper analysis indicates that Mathews was extremely productive when actually on the field. To top it off, Mathews isn't in game shape when he reports to camp this summer, thus leading to further rumor/innuendo that he's a "bust". All of these factors push Mathews' stock lower.
Look folks, anything can happen. 7 2 off suit cracks AA sometimes. But if you have to put your chips on a horse, its an absolute no brainer. It takes about 30 seconds of watching the two to understand why one guy is the total package and the other wasn't even drafted.
Prediction: Next years spotlight for the Chargers RB will be "Ryan Mathews", with little to no mention of Mike Tolbert. And many will be kicking themselves for passing on Mathews in the 3rd round wondering "why did I think a 5'9, 243 lb, undrafted fullback was really going to beat out a beast like Mathews??!?"
Saddle up fellas. The train is leaving the station in a few weeks. Choo-chooo!
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Touchdown There
Footballguy
BINGO! But for Bloom: :whoosh:
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
In fairness to Bloom, he sees the potential value in Mathews, but it's obvious that he assigns a higher risk premium to the situation than some of us who are higher on Mathews. And that's cool, because the Chargers love what they've gotten from Tolbert and Mathews isn't a sure thing, or else he'd be a top 5 overall pick due to his talent + situation. None of this is black and white, just a bunch of grey. Hell, if Mathews is there in the mid to late 4th, I bet Bloom would grab him. I'm just saying folks should reach a bit earlier to ensure they get him.
+1You're not comparing Mathews to say Chris Johnson, since no one is grabbing Mathews in the first or even second rounds. You're comparing him to the board at hand: personally, I prefer his situation-- risks and all-- to the likes of a Peyton Hillis or Jahvid Best. Both the floor and ceiling are higher for Mathews than comparable RBs available at the same spot.
good point about the fb role skewing it. still, his ratio last yr was skewed by the presence of sproles. fwiw, i dont feel strongly that tolbert will get the passing down role and a ton of targets, im just going by camp rumblings.
Tau837
Footballguy
1. Justin Forsett last year is one example I can think of right away where I employed similar analysis2. Im not down on Mathews ability. I think his opportunity is overrated, but it can give him a shot at high-end RB2 production. Im down on his track record thus far, especially that his early stumble seems to fit right into what brought him down last year - doesn't anyone remember how frustrating it was waiting for the Chargers to give him a large workload week after week? I think Mathews can break long runs when something hangs in the balance, but he has to be at or close to 100% to do it, and that's what I'm not sure of.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Bloom, I just checked out your redraft rankings. You have Best at #24 and Mathews at #52. If you are going to use injury analysis in your equation, make sure you do it fairly. You can't just assume that Mathews will never break out and remain injured while having Jahvid Best 20 spots ahead of average ADP. Best is now expected to have a heavier workload and his frame is much smaller than Mathews.
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If Tolbert played for Detroit and San Diego gave Mathews a decent-sized workload even while he was playing through injuries, then those rankings would be close to flipped.Bloom, I just checked out your redraft rankings. You have Best at #24 and Mathews at #52. If you are going to use injury analysis in your equation, make sure you do it fairly. You can't just assume that Mathews will never break out and remain injured while having Jahvid Best 20 spots ahead of average ADP. Best is now expected to have a heavier workload and his frame is much smaller than Mathews.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Wondering why I haven't seen these quotes in here:
Seems like some of us might have knee jerked a bit at the early reports on Mathews.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
You just flipped it back out of the injury prediction realm and into the opportunity realm. Is Best's chance of injury greater or smaller with a higher workload? You are projecting as if a larger number of carries is better for Jahvid Best. Either play the injury expectations into projections or don't. It is not fair to use it on one guy and not the other.This just comes down to your man love for Best.If Tolbert played for Detroit and San Diego gave Mathews a decent-sized workload even while he was playing through injuries, then those rankings would be close to flipped.Bloom, I just checked out your redraft rankings. You have Best at #24 and Mathews at #52. If you are going to use injury analysis in your equation, make sure you do it fairly. You can't just assume that Mathews will never break out and remain injured while having Jahvid Best 20 spots ahead of average ADP. Best is now expected to have a heavier workload and his frame is much smaller than Mathews.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
shush.....some of us are drafting soon. No need to spread the word that the Bolts coaches are extremely happy with Mathews right now.
Tau837
Footballguy
Because I projected a high number of TDs for Mathews and Tolbert, I looked up the Chargers RB TDs since Norv arrived:
2007 - 18 rushing TDs + 4 receiving TDs = 22 total TDs (plus 1 passing TD)
2008 - 13 rushing TDs + 8 receiving TDs = 21 total TDs
2009 - 16 rushing TDs + 7 receiving TDs = 23 total TDs
2010 - 18 rushing TDs + 3 receiving TDs = 21 total TDs
That's pretty impressive IMO, especially considering that the last 3 years involved Tomlinson falling off a cliff, Mathews' high ankle sprain, and general RBBC.
2007 - 18 rushing TDs + 4 receiving TDs = 22 total TDs (plus 1 passing TD)
2008 - 13 rushing TDs + 8 receiving TDs = 21 total TDs
2009 - 16 rushing TDs + 7 receiving TDs = 23 total TDs
2010 - 18 rushing TDs + 3 receiving TDs = 21 total TDs
That's pretty impressive IMO, especially considering that the last 3 years involved Tomlinson falling off a cliff, Mathews' high ankle sprain, and general RBBC.
Tolbert started and got the first two series tonight, then he replaced Mathews inside the 10 on Mathews series, scoring the TD on the drive...
Tau837
Footballguy
It's less about the early season, and more about midseason on... and it's certainly not about preseason game 1. Mathews will score double digit TDs this season.
strong
Footballguy
You sound like someone that has a dog in the fight:1-10-SD 11(9:47) M.Tolbert right tackle to SD 9 for -2 yards (L.Hill; B.Mebane).
2-12-SD 9(9:11) P.Rivers pass short right to V.Jackson to SD 15 for 6 yards (M.Trufant).
3-6-SD 15(8:31) (Shotgun) P.Rivers pass deep left to V.Jackson to SEA 37 for 48 yards (K.Jennings).
1-10-SEA 37(7:41) P.Rivers pass incomplete deep right to V.Jackson.
2-10-SEA 37(7:41) M.Tolbert up the middle to SEA 38 for -1 yards (K.Chancellor).
3-11-SEA 38(6:58) (Shotgun) P.Rivers pass short left to K.Sperry to SEA 22 for 16 yards (K.Jennings).
1-10]-SEA 22(6:21) R.Mathews right tackle to SEA 18 for 4 yards (R.Brock, D.Hawthorne).
2-6-SEA 18(5:43) (Shotgun) P.Rivers pass short left to R.Mathews to SEA 9 for 9 yards (L.Hill, K.Jennings).
1-9-SEA 9(5:03) R.Mathews left end to SEA 8 for 1 yard (K.Chancellor).
2-8-SEA 8(4:21) (Shotgun) P.Rivers pass short left to M.Tolbert for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
If you're a Mathews owner instead, you might say Tolbert got the first two series and was ineffective and barely used. Mathews came in for two series' as well, and the coaches called his number on three straight plays. They gave him a breather and Tolbert scored on the next play.
Banger
Footballguy
gave him a breather after a couple of carries? you can rationalize it any way you want but if you are choosing Matthews to be your stud this is not a good sign. I'm avoiding Matthews big time and I'll look to add Tolbert much later.
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Multiple Scores
Footballguy
As a Matthews dynasty owner it was imperative for me to trade for Tolbert.
bosoxs45
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
Just wanted to mention that all of your posts are greatly enhanced by your avatar. As a Mathews supporter, I find that you almost convinced me...
Banger
Footballguy
JWB...been a fan of yours for years and know you are a big Charger guy but I don't know about Matthews...just not feelin it. I've certainly been wrong before but I just don't see the drive and desire that are necessary to succeed at this level.
Tau837
Footballguy
I'll admit that I am a homer. And, by the way, I like Tolbert a lot. All that said, I'm all in on Mathews. I see a big future here.
Tau837
Footballguy
Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.
Gunz, when have we been so clearly on the same page before? Rivers... check.
Banger
Footballguy
Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board. Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews. Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't going to use much? Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.
Tau837
Footballguy
Why would he give "all these touches" to Tolbert vs. Mathews?2010: Mathews had a high ankle sprain. He had 28 touches in less than 5 quarters last season before the injury.2011: It's one preseason game so far... when Mathews has been somewhat limited in practice... don't overreact.Gunz.....had tomlinson for years and followed the Chargers very closely so obviously got to know a lot of the Charger faithful on the board. Always respected you, JWB, MT and others and I'm a bit surprised to see you all sticking so tight to Matthews. Why would Norv be giving all these touches to a guy who they aren't going to use much? Not trying to be a jerk at all but trying to understand why I'm seeing something completely different than you guys are seeing?Best case scenario tonight for those targeting Mathews.
