Ryan Mathews & Mike Tolbert, RBs, San Diego Chargers (1 Viewer)

[Grahamburn]

I know I'm late to the party as far as this thread goes, but something that hasn't been brought up needs to be...Mike Tolbert is a special teams monster, maybe the best in the league at what he does on special teams... But he couldn't last year due to having to pick up a large share of the running game. I see Mathews getting 65%ish of the touches, with Tolbert peppered in. I don't see either as THE goal line back, and that it will be decided on flow of the game and if either is gassed at that point in time.

This. I like to add that if you are in a ppr league, then Matthews jumps considerably.

With Sproles leaving for New Orleans you can expect a nice bump in Mathews' receptions if the Chargers don't sign a 3rd down back.

 

[Shutout]

I know I'm late to the party as far as this thread goes, but something that hasn't been brought up needs to be...Mike Tolbert is a special teams monster, maybe the best in the league at what he does on special teams... But he couldn't last year due to having to pick up a large share of the running game. I see Mathews getting 65%ish of the touches, with Tolbert peppered in. I don't see either as THE goal line back, and that it will be decided on flow of the game and if either is gassed at that point in time.

This. I like to add that if you are in a ppr league, then Matthews jumps considerably.

With Sproles leaving for New Orleans you can expect a nice bump in Mathews' receptions if the Chargers don't sign a 3rd down back.

Wouldn't their draft pick Toddman fill that role (old Sproles role)?I think Matthews COULD do it, but it seems that San Diego prefers to divide things out a bit more.

 

[craxie]

Wouldn't their draft pick Toddman fill that role (old Sproles role)?

Not this year.Especially with the abbreviated training camp, aren't going to trust him blocking for their $100 million QBAnd if you can't block, you aren't staying in on 3rd down.

 

[Grahamburn]

With Sproles leaving for New Orleans you can expect a nice bump in Mathews' receptions if the Chargers don't sign a 3rd down back.

Wouldn't their draft pick Toddman fill that role (old Sproles role)?I think Matthews COULD do it, but it seems that San Diego prefers to divide things out a bit more.

Don't know? I'd think they'd want their 2010 first round pick to fill that role. My guess is Mathews gets first crack at being a 3 down back, and Tolbert fills the short yardage and 4 minute drill role. If Mathews can improve his pass blocking he'll be on the field quite a bit. Norv Turner has never really been a RBBC guy unless it's out of necessity.

 

[Tau837]

With Sproles leaving for New Orleans you can expect a nice bump in Mathews' receptions if the Chargers don't sign a 3rd down back.

Wouldn't their draft pick Toddman fill that role (old Sproles role)?I think Matthews COULD do it, but it seems that San Diego prefers to divide things out a bit more.

Don't know? I'd think they'd want their 2010 first round pick to fill that role. My guess is Mathews gets first crack at being a 3 down back, and Tolbert fills the short yardage and 4 minute drill role. If Mathews can improve his pass blocking he'll be on the field quite a bit. Norv Turner has never really been a RBBC guy unless it's out of necessity.

It was pretty much a given that Sproles was gone. This is an underappreciated reason that Mathews was and is underrated. He should get 40-50 catches this year if he stays healthy.

 

[OnTheReg]

Ummm not exactly what you want to see or expect to see from a RB1: Matthews failed his conditioning test:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/30/mathews-struggles-conditioning/

 

[OnTheReg]

This quote is awful:

“My cardio is real good; I don’t get tired,” Mathews said. “It’s the speed work. I haven’t been doing much speed work like that. There’s a couple things I probably should have done differently in the offseason, conditioning my legs.”

 

[OnTheReg]

“It’s making sure I’m accountable for what I didn’t get done in the offseason,” Mathews said. “It’s my legs. If you want the ball 20-25 times a game, it’s about having the legs.”

 

[LawFitz]

Some people will brush this off as no big deal for Mathews. I think it's a glaring red flag. Trying to play yourself into shape as an RB is a very bad idea. Don't be surprised to see a hammy or groin injury from this guy in the near future.

 

[RhymesMcJuice]

This quote is awful:

“My cardio is real good; I don’t get tired,” Mathews said. “It’s the speed work. I haven’t been doing much speed work like that. There’s a couple things I probably should have done differently in the offseason, conditioning my legs.”

What a bum. I have high hopes for the guy, but how in the world is leg conditioning not the number one priority for a RB? I supported the decision to draft him, but at this point I'd rather have Best to pair with Tolbert.

 

[Grahamburn]

Oof.

 

[De Novo]

Oof.

Seriously. Now the guy is sitting out a couple or few days.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Oof.

Seriously. Now the guy is sitting out a couple or few days.

I looked through all the emoticons looking for a :redflag: but all I could find that comes close is:

 

[moderated]

I've heard he plays the video game WOW (World of Warcraft) all the time and he was probably doing that instead of working out during the off season.

People that play the game did some i-stalking and i guess he plays it a TON.

Not a good sign, i don't want my feature RB sitting on his ### dorking it up wasting time playing a game where you live a fake life.

 

[T with T]

This quote is awful:

“My cardio is real good; I don’t get tired,” Mathews said. “It’s the speed work. I haven’t been doing much speed work like that. There’s a couple things I probably should have done differently in the offseason, conditioning my legs.”

 

[OnTheReg]

Yesterday morning, I was looking at which potential RB's would be around, and I came across Mathew's name. Last year, I almost talked myself into him, but I couldn't justify taking a rookie that high, so thankfully, I passed. So I put Mathew's name into google news, and that article is what I found. Oh man, was I bummed out. It isn't even a CONSIDERATION to take him now. Camp just started, and he is talking about things that he should have done differently during the off season? Ugh. LAST thing I want to hear from a running back on my squad. What type of RB doesn't condition his legs in the off season? What is it, laziness? Stupidity? When was the last time a RB failed a conditioning test, not due to injury?

STAY AWAY!

 

[moderated]

Yesterday morning, I was looking at which potential RB's would be around, and I came across Mathew's name. Last year, I almost talked myself into him, but I couldn't justify taking a rookie that high, so thankfully, I passed. So I put Mathew's name into google news, and that article is what I found. Oh man, was I bummed out. It isn't even a CONSIDERATION to take him now. Camp just started, and he is talking about things that he should have done differently during the off season? Ugh. LAST thing I want to hear from a running back on my squad. What type of RB doesn't condition his legs in the off season? What is it, laziness? Stupidity? When was the last time a RB failed a conditioning test, not due to injury? STAY AWAY!

Most running backs don't play world of Warcraft for 8+ hours a day.I agree though, Stay away from this bum.

 

[OnTheReg]

Playing devil's advocate, here's an interesting take on Mathews:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/26/fantasy-dynasty-slants-%E2%80%93-why-i-like-ryan-mathews-more-than-you-do/

 

[T with T]

Playing devil's advocate, here's an interesting take on Mathews:http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/26/fantasy-dynasty-slants-%E2%80%93-why-i-like-ryan-mathews-more-than-you-do/

I totally agree with this article and def still think Matthews can be a stud.. Maybe people are reading to much into this.. This means really little in the grand scheme of things if he gets his stuff together... their was a lockout so alot of players got lazy.. Like the article says, He was not bad on per snap basis and Norv doesn't use RBBC. The guy was injured last year thats why he didn't look as good as he is.. I took him for My rb2 in my latest Dynasty draft. Jcharles, Rmatthews as my 1,2

 

[Markus P Dub]

Ryan Mathews battling a toe injury - Ryan Mathews (RB) San Diego Chargersfrom Fantasy Football Headlines - Rotoworld.com

Originally described as "soreness," the injury that has sidelined Ryan Mathews at Chargers camp is to the running back's toe.

 

[I was in the pool]

I wonder if anyone will just on Mathews at the end of the 1st, early 2nd like last year???

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Very interesting value situation here...

I thought that Tolbert was the better player last year of the two. Granted Matthews was struggling through injuries and the highs/lows that sometimes come when a kid, particularly from a non-major conference has to make the transition to the NFL.

But I wonder if the Chargers would have made the trade up to draft Matthews if they knew what they had in Tolbert, which I'm not sure they did. Remember, they were coming off the Tomlinson era, an era which saw his last season be quite unproductive.

Tolbert was credited with playing in 15 games. But in Weeks 1, 6, 7 & 16 he played a total of 26 snaps - essentially a games worth of action. So in reality his production should be measured over 12 games, not 15. When measured and extrapolated against that baseline, Tolbert was a guy when he was a significant part of the game plan averaged 85.5 YFS & close to a TD/game. In short, Tolbert was by far the more impressive player between the two.

The Chargers seem to want to justify the 1st round selection on Matthews by giving him every opportunity to be the guy in this backfield. However, it seems that Tolbert's skillset is broader than Matthews at the monment and he appears to be the tougher runner. Matthews might potentially be the more explosoive player, but he's yet to show it at the NFL level. While I don't want to get too worked up about a conditioning test, by a players own admission, when he discusses how he probably should have worked harder to sharpen one of his differentiating attributes during the offseason, I think we are all taking that as a sign thatr perhaps he still has a few things to learn about being a professional.

Production though is king and if Matthews starts tearing it up from the outset, then all will be forgiven. But if he gets off to a slow start, his leash will probably be quite short. And as much as the Chargers would like to define specific roles for each of these players, I just don't think it will be that neat. That said, I do think Tolbert winds up being the TD back. Last season the work distribution inside the 10 looked like this:

Tolbert: 28 carries; 11 TD's

Matthews: 7 carries; 1 TD

...why mess with what works in this area of the field?

Predictions:

Tolbert - 197 Carries, 833 Rushing Yards, 12 TD's, 31 Receptions, 220 Receiving Yards, 1 TD.

Matthews - 166 Carries, 691 Rushing Yards, 4 TD's, 36 Receptions, 289 Receiving Yards, 1 TD.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Very interesting value situation here...

I thought that Tolbert was the better player last year of the two. Granted Matthews was struggling through injuries and the highs/lows that sometimes come when a kid, particularly from a non-major conference has to make the transition to the NFL.

But I wonder if the Chargers would have made the trade up to draft Matthews if they knew what they had in Tolbert, which I'm not sure they did. Remember, they were coming off the Tomlinson era, an era which saw his last season be quite unproductive.

Tolbert was credited with playing in 15 games. But in Weeks 1, 6, 7 & 16 he played a total of 26 snaps - essentially a games worth of action. So in reality his production should be measured over 12 games, not 15. When measured and extrapolated against that baseline, Tolbert was a guy when he was a significant part of the game plan averaged 85.5 YFS & close to a TD/game. In short, Tolbert was by far the more impressive player between the two.

The Chargers seem to want to justify the 1st round selection on Matthews by giving him every opportunity to be the guy in this backfield. However, it seems that Tolbert's skillset is broader than Matthews at the monment and he appears to be the tougher runner. Matthews might potentially be the more explosoive player, but he's yet to show it at the NFL level. While I don't want to get too worked up about a conditioning test, by a players own admission, when he discusses how he probably should have worked harder to sharpen one of his differentiating attributes during the offseason, I think we are all taking that as a sign thatr perhaps he still has a few things to learn about being a professional.

Production though is king and if Matthews starts tearing it up from the outset, then all will be forgiven. But if he gets off to a slow start, his leash will probably be quite short. And as much as the Chargers would like to define specific roles for each of these players, I just don't think it will be that neat. That said, I do think Tolbert winds up being the TD back. Last season the work distribution inside the 10 looked like this:

Tolbert: 28 carries; 11 TD's

Matthews: 7 carries; 1 TD

...why mess with what works in this area of the field?

Predictions:

Tolbert - 197 Carries, 833 Rushing Yards, 12 TD's, 31 Receptions, 220 Receiving Yards, 1 TD.

Matthews - 166 Carries, 691 Rushing Yards, 4 TD's, 36 Receptions, 289 Receiving Yards, 1 TD.

I watched every Charger snap last year, and while I love Tolbert's contact running style and surprising speed, he's a fullback playing running back. Mathews is the quintessential RB; he has speed, power, wiggle, and excellent vision. Assuming both backs are healthy, I'd be stunned if Tolbert saw more than half the carries that Mathews gets. As MT pointed out earlier, Tolbert will steal enough short yardage/goal line touches to hurt Mathews' value, but this should be the year Mathews shines and Tolbert moves back to his normal role of special teams monster, full back bulldozer in I sets, and occasional RB to spell Mathews.

 

[FF Ninja]

Playing devil's advocate, here's an interesting take on Mathews:http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/26/fantasy-dynasty-slants-%E2%80%93-why-i-like-ryan-mathews-more-than-you-do/

Good find. Interesting read.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Playing devil's advocate, here's an interesting take on Mathews:http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/26/fantasy-dynasty-slants-%E2%80%93-why-i-like-ryan-mathews-more-than-you-do/

Good find. Interesting read.

Agreed. It quantifies the frustration that most of us who watched the Chargers last year felt. Mathews was extremely effective when healthy (and not fumbling).

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Very interesting value situation here...

I thought that Tolbert was the better player last year of the two. Granted Matthews was struggling through injuries and the highs/lows that sometimes come when a kid, particularly from a non-major conference has to make the transition to the NFL.

But I wonder if the Chargers would have made the trade up to draft Matthews if they knew what they had in Tolbert, which I'm not sure they did. Remember, they were coming off the Tomlinson era, an era which saw his last season be quite unproductive.

Tolbert was credited with playing in 15 games. But in Weeks 1, 6, 7 & 16 he played a total of 26 snaps - essentially a games worth of action. So in reality his production should be measured over 12 games, not 15. When measured and extrapolated against that baseline, Tolbert was a guy when he was a significant part of the game plan averaged 85.5 YFS & close to a TD/game. In short, Tolbert was by far the more impressive player between the two.

The Chargers seem to want to justify the 1st round selection on Matthews by giving him every opportunity to be the guy in this backfield. However, it seems that Tolbert's skillset is broader than Matthews at the monment and he appears to be the tougher runner. Matthews might potentially be the more explosoive player, but he's yet to show it at the NFL level. While I don't want to get too worked up about a conditioning test, by a players own admission, when he discusses how he probably should have worked harder to sharpen one of his differentiating attributes during the offseason, I think we are all taking that as a sign thatr perhaps he still has a few things to learn about being a professional.

Production though is king and if Matthews starts tearing it up from the outset, then all will be forgiven. But if he gets off to a slow start, his leash will probably be quite short. And as much as the Chargers would like to define specific roles for each of these players, I just don't think it will be that neat. That said, I do think Tolbert winds up being the TD back. Last season the work distribution inside the 10 looked like this:

Tolbert: 28 carries; 11 TD's

Matthews: 7 carries; 1 TD

...why mess with what works in this area of the field?

Predictions:

Tolbert - 197 Carries, 833 Rushing Yards, 12 TD's, 31 Receptions, 220 Receiving Yards, 1 TD.

Matthews - 166 Carries, 691 Rushing Yards, 4 TD's, 36 Receptions, 289 Receiving Yards, 1 TD.

I watched every Charger snap last year, and while I love Tolbert's contact running style and surprising speed, he's a fullback playing running back. Mathews is the quintessential RB; he has speed, power, wiggle, and excellent vision. Assuming both backs are healthy, I'd be stunned if Tolbert saw more than half the carries that Mathews gets. As MT pointed out earlier, Tolbert will steal enough short yardage/goal line touches to hurt Mathews' value, but this should be the year Mathews shines and Tolbert moves back to his normal role of special teams monster, full back bulldozer in I sets, and occasional RB to spell Mathews.

I think DirtyWord has made some compelling arguments on the Tolbert/Mathews timeshare last year. Coming from someone who has watched the Chargers all last year, I was hoping for more than just your gut feel. You need to answer the analysis with why you think Mathews is the "quintessntial RB". What has he done to prove that? That "surprisingly fast fullback" is flat outplaying the first round tailback. How can this be? Tolbert has gotten it done, and Mathews hasn't. Why? The stats clarify the situation, but they don't tell the whole story. IMO, Mathews, with all his God-given talent has taken for granted his situation, and is not behaving like NFL caliber RB's do. Tolbert may not have the same talent, but he understands what it takes to compete for the starters role. Bottom line is, draft position, or who looks better coming off the bus does not compete with good old fashioned grit and determination. And If you could take Tolbert's heart and put into Mathews body, you might have a super back.

 

[gethugefast1]

Ryan Mathews - RB - Chargers

Ryan Mathews (toe) returned to Chargers training camp practice Tuesday.

Mathews missed only a couple of days with either "general soreness" or a toe injury, depending on whom you ask. He's slated to be the Chargers' starter this year, but needs to stay healthy to earn snaps on passing downs and in short yardage. Mike Tolbert is going to put a cap on Mathews' fantasy potential. Source: Kevin Acee on Twitter Aug 2, 7:13 PM

 

[Ian F]

This is worth a read also

Waldman's take

 

[outlawassassins]

dont sleep on J. Todman is all im saying

 

[krugoh]

dont sleep on J. Todman is all im saying

As a CT resident, UConn and Chargers fan... He excites me. Unfortunately, I'm also very high on Mathews.Currently keeping my 4th round pick from last year, and will find it extremely difficult to pass on Mathews in the 5th round if he's still there (start 2 qb league - so it's a long shot/possibility).The five factors that keep me high on him (fantasy and regular football)-Norv and his track record of a lack of RBBC-Sproles gone-Talent will win out in the end (McClain to Ray Rice comparison)-His YPC-His highlight reel in which he seems nearly impossible to tackle (seemingly bouncing off linebackers), and his ability to constantly beat nearly anyone to the outside corner (looks almost like a reggie bush highlight reel).Of course, I'm bias

 

[Tau837]

The five factors that keep me high on him (fantasy and regular football)-Norv and his track record of a lack of RBBC-Sproles gone-Talent will win out in the end (McClain to Ray Rice comparison)-His YPC-His highlight reel in which he seems nearly impossible to tackle (seemingly bouncing off linebackers), and his ability to constantly beat nearly anyone to the outside corner (looks almost like a reggie bush highlight reel).

 

[Grahamburn]

Any more camp news on him? Keep it coming...

 

[Gr00vus]

The Chargers signed Shawnbrey McNeal today. They had him for a while last year too. He might compete for some semblance of the Sproles role, I'd be surprised if he has much of an impact, barring injuries. Still it's another guy in the mix.

 

[finito]

dont sleep on J. Todman is all im saying

Love Todman, hoping he can carve out a role.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Two-back system

 

[Blackjacks]

Two-back system

Yep, I saw that today as well. Mathews might be forcing Norv's hand and making him go with 2 guys back there.

 

[AmosMoses]

San Diego Chargers RB Ryan Mathews (leg) is unlikely to play in the team's preseason opener Thursday, Aug. 11. He has been hampered by a slightly strained muscle in his upper leg. 'In the early preseason games, we always err on the side of caution,' head coach Norv Turner said.

My link

If this guy gets any softer, he is going to turn into the Stay Puft Marshmellow Man.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Simple solution. Draft Phillip Rivers instead of Ryan Mathews at the end of the 3rd round. Then grab Tolbert in the mid-later rounds.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

Glad I resisted trading Marcus Lattimore in a deal for Mathews. Sounds like Mathews' value is going to be limited.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Meh. You see this stuff every year. If the backs are similar in talent (which these two are not) then you hear about split back sets or some other rubbish. Then you get situations like this where they'll supposedly trade off. Same offseason fodder. The best back will get the most carries as always. The second guy will come in to spell him and, in this case, vulture short touchdowns. This doesn't change a single thing. I still expect a 2:1 ratio of touches.Even when DeAngelo and Stewart were both healthy it wasn't an even split. I can't believe people still read into articles like this. We see them every year, people...

The head coach specifically said that Mathews might not be one of the leading rushers because of the "1-2 punch". How much clearer can he make it? This is also very relevant because some have cited Turner also using a feature back as a reason to like Mathews this year. Turner's comments show clearly that he is not wedded to leaning one back.

 

[Sabertooth]

 

[death of the cool]

To me it the writing is on the wall that Tolbert is really going to limit Mathews value, but it seems that the pro-Mathews camp has spent all off-season talking themselves into Mathews that they are ignoring it.

-Mathews already getting dinged up

-Mathews admits he didn't train well

-Turner says that Mathews will not be among the rushing leaders because of the splitting of time.

-Tolbert was very successful goalline back so I don't see that changing.

I am not touching Mathews at his current ADP...much too risky.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Coaches say this stuff every single year. They may very well believe it when they say it in the offseason, but when the ammunition is live they are going to lean on their studs. You play to win the game. He will be judged by his wins and losses. Mathews has shown an ability to score from anywhere while Tolbert is a plodder. He's not going to be worried about keeping anyone fresh or maintaining an even split. If the game is close, he'll be calling Mathews' number.Don't get me wrong, I think Tolbert is a great value play. I think he's going to vulture enough TDs that he will outplay his ADP (I drafted him in SSL4), but I will be extremely surprised if the ratio is not close to 2:1. I'm sure they won't be leaning on Mathews if it is 41-7, but I think we'll see a heavy dose of Mathews this season unless they somehow become an elite 14-2 team that runs away with games.

What I would say is that it may not even be arguable that SD was the single most disappointing team in the NFL last season. With the talent they have, to finish 9-7 and out of the playoffs was ridiculous. It should have left a bad taste in SD Chargers mouth. Yet Matthews comes into camp 'unprepared'.IMO, NT almost by necessity can't make Matthews his bellcow or he risks losing his team or at least having it underperform significantly again. I don't know what Matthews has proven at the NFL level other than he can rip apart a Broncos defense.Matthews averaged a 20 yard play every 45 touchesTolbert averaged a 20 yard play every 25.9 touchesMaybe the axiom is true that when the bullets are flying, coaches lean on their studs. I don't know what evidence you have other than he was the 12th overall selection in the draft in 2010 to suggest Matthews fits in this category.

 

[Ian F]

I think the repeated nicks and injuries are a concern but the fact that a head coach said something is not very meaningful imo - they say this stuff every year and fantasy owners overreact...

If Mathews is healthy and plays to his ability he will have a ton of value (Ray Rice level) even with Tolbert getting carries and GL looks so what the coach says about the split is not that relevant.

As an aside how many coaches actually change their approach when the bullets start flying - old habits dye hard!

 

[NeverEnough]

I drafted both so I'll just start both.

 

[craxie]

Granted, coming to camp out of shape is a bad omen. This could be indicative of a poor work ethic and/or it could be the precursor to more injuries. This is the only thing that concerns me right now.

From what I've read, it's not that he didn't work out, it's that he wasn't able to be with team trainers so he worked out the wrong way, focusing on the wrong things.I mean, look at his calves

While I wouldn't question his work ethic at this point, I might question his intelligence. If someone with that sort of money can't hire a trainer that knows what they're doing . . .

 

[Gr00vus]

I've been trying to tell people Tolbert isn't going away. Unless he gets hurt he's going to cut into Matthews's stats/touches significantly enough to limit Matthews's upside. In TD heavy leagues Tolbert will be more valuable than Matthews.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

What I would say is that it may not even be arguable that SD was the single most disappointing team in the NFL last season. With the talent they have, to finish 9-7 and out of the playoffs was ridiculous. It should have left a bad taste in SD Chargers mouth. Yet Matthews comes into camp 'unprepared'.IMO, NT almost by necessity can't make Matthews his bellcow or he risks losing his team or at least having it underperform significantly again. I don't know what Matthews has proven at the NFL level other than he can rip apart a Broncos defense.Matthews averaged a 20 yard run every 39.5 carriesTolbert averaged a 20 yard run every 25.9 carriesMaybe the axiom is true that when the bullets are flying, coaches lean on their studs. I don't know what evidence you have other than he was the 12th overall selection in the draft in 2010 to suggest Matthews fits in this category.

Granted, coming to camp out of shape is a bad omen. This could be indicative of a poor work ethic and/or it could be the precursor to more injuries. This is the only thing that concerns me right now.If you want to just look at frequencies of an arbitrary distance while one player was dealing with a high ankle sprain most of the year, that's your call. Not a very good call in my opinion, but if you are looking for a reason to avoid Mathews then I guess a stat as weak as that one will work. If Mathews can net a higher ypc than Tolbert while suffering through a debilitating injury last season then I like his chances to shine if he can stay healthy this season.

I don't want to minimize a high ankle sprain, but we heard of stories last year where MJD played on a meniscus tear that became a bone-on-bone condition. Arian Foster didn't tell anyone about his knee injury (meniscus). I've had both and neither would be easy injuries to play with. But somehow MJD/Foster toughes it out, while Matthews came in far short of expectations. Different guys have different definitions of 'healthy' and in the past 2 weeks, Matthews has missed camp because of 'soreness'.The bottomline IMO is that right now, it's fair to question his toughness, particularly in lieu of the fact that he didn't play major conference football. As his compliment, is Tolbert who excudes toughness and a bull in a china shop mentality, while at the same time has underrated big play ability.Is Tolbert going to relgate Matthews to third down duty? No...but to think that at this point Matthews has earned or shown anything that would relegate Tolbert to the same is not seeing the forest from the trees. At this point in their careers, Tolbert has shown himself to be a better football player.

 

[De Novo]

What I would say is that it may not even be arguable that SD was the single most disappointing team in the NFL last season. With the talent they have, to finish 9-7 and out of the playoffs was ridiculous. It should have left a bad taste in SD Chargers mouth. Yet Matthews comes into camp 'unprepared'.IMO, NT almost by necessity can't make Matthews his bellcow or he risks losing his team or at least having it underperform significantly again. I don't know what Matthews has proven at the NFL level other than he can rip apart a Broncos defense.Matthews averaged a 20 yard run every 39.5 carriesTolbert averaged a 20 yard run every 25.9 carriesMaybe the axiom is true that when the bullets are flying, coaches lean on their studs. I don't know what evidence you have other than he was the 12th overall selection in the draft in 2010 to suggest Matthews fits in this category.

Granted, coming to camp out of shape is a bad omen. This could be indicative of a poor work ethic and/or it could be the precursor to more injuries. This is the only thing that concerns me right now.If you want to just look at frequencies of an arbitrary distance while one player was dealing with a high ankle sprain most of the year, that's your call. Not a very good call in my opinion, but if you are looking for a reason to avoid Mathews then I guess a stat as weak as that one will work. If Mathews can net a higher ypc than Tolbert while suffering through a debilitating injury last season then I like his chances to shine if he can stay healthy this season.

I don't want to minimize a high ankle sprain, but we heard of stories last year where MJD played on a meniscus tear that became a bone-on-bone condition. Arian Foster didn't tell anyone about his knee injury (meniscus). I've had both and neither would be easy injuries to play with. But somehow MJD/Foster toughes it out, while Matthews came in far short of expectations. Different guys have different definitions of 'healthy' and in the past 2 weeks, Matthews has missed camp because of 'soreness'.The bottomline IMO is that right now, it's fair to question his toughness, particularly in lieu of the fact that he didn't play major conference football. As his compliment, is Tolbert who excudes toughness and a bull in a china shop mentality, while at the same time has underrated big play ability.Is Tolbert going to relgate Matthews to third down duty? No...but to think that at this point Matthews has earned or shown anything that would relegate Tolbert to the same is not seeing the forest from the trees. At this point in their careers, Tolbert has shown himself to be a better football player.

I'm not a football player but I have torn my meniscus and had a high ankle sprain. I could run with pain on the meniscus tear. It's just cartilage/padding. It hurts, but you can do it. I could not stand up on a high ankle sprain, let alone walk, run, or cut.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

What I would say is that it may not even be arguable that SD was the single most disappointing team in the NFL last season. With the talent they have, to finish 9-7 and out of the playoffs was ridiculous. It should have left a bad taste in SD Chargers mouth. Yet Matthews comes into camp 'unprepared'.IMO, NT almost by necessity can't make Matthews his bellcow or he risks losing his team or at least having it underperform significantly again. I don't know what Matthews has proven at the NFL level other than he can rip apart a Broncos defense.Matthews averaged a 20 yard run every 39.5 carriesTolbert averaged a 20 yard run every 25.9 carriesMaybe the axiom is true that when the bullets are flying, coaches lean on their studs. I don't know what evidence you have other than he was the 12th overall selection in the draft in 2010 to suggest Matthews fits in this category.

Granted, coming to camp out of shape is a bad omen. This could be indicative of a poor work ethic and/or it could be the precursor to more injuries. This is the only thing that concerns me right now.If you want to just look at frequencies of an arbitrary distance while one player was dealing with a high ankle sprain most of the year, that's your call. Not a very good call in my opinion, but if you are looking for a reason to avoid Mathews then I guess a stat as weak as that one will work. If Mathews can net a higher ypc than Tolbert while suffering through a debilitating injury last season then I like his chances to shine if he can stay healthy this season.

I don't want to minimize a high ankle sprain, but we heard of stories last year where MJD played on a meniscus tear that became a bone-on-bone condition. Arian Foster didn't tell anyone about his knee injury (meniscus). I've had both and neither would be easy injuries to play with. But somehow MJD/Foster toughes it out, while Matthews came in far short of expectations. Different guys have different definitions of 'healthy' and in the past 2 weeks, Matthews has missed camp because of 'soreness'.The bottomline IMO is that right now, it's fair to question his toughness, particularly in lieu of the fact that he didn't play major conference football. As his compliment, is Tolbert who excudes toughness and a bull in a china shop mentality, while at the same time has underrated big play ability.Is Tolbert going to relgate Matthews to third down duty? No...but to think that at this point Matthews has earned or shown anything that would relegate Tolbert to the same is not seeing the forest from the trees. At this point in their careers, Tolbert has shown himself to be a better football player.

I'm not a football player but I have torn my meniscus and had a high ankle sprain. I could run with pain on the meniscus tear. It's just cartilage/padding. It hurts, but you can do it. I could not stand up on a high ankle sprain, let alone walk, run, or cut.

What hurts/affects you more 4-6 weeks after the injury?