Ryan Mathews & Mike Tolbert, RBs, San Diego Chargers (1 Viewer)

[tommyGunZ]

Pass It On

This section uses tape review and metrics to help make a trade recommendation for a player whose recent performance suggests he is either a buy-low or sell-high candidate.

Ryan Mathews

Mathews has posted solid fantasy numbers the past two weeks, but Mike Tolbert has him beat in targets (18 to 14) and receptions (17 to 10), and has nearly equaled him in rush attempts (21 to 24).

Those numbers make it look like this will be a 50/50 platoon situation for the rest of the year. But Mathews' showing in the good blocking yards per attempt (GBYPA) metric indicates that could be changing soon.

GBYPA measures how productive a ball carrier is when he receives a good blocking situation. A season-ending mark of 6 yards in this category is considered solid, with less than that being subpar and more being above average.

Look at Mathews' and Tolbert's numbers after two games:

Mathews: 11 good blocking attempts, 90 yards gained, 8.2 GBYPA

Tolbert: nine good blocking attempts, 30 yards gained, 3.3 GBYPA

While it's a very small sample size, with that kind of variance in productivity it won't be long before Chargers head coach Norv Turner will have no choice but to start giving Mathews a higher percentage of the workload. That makes him a great trade target.

 

[Raidersfan18]

Anyone know how the red zone carries were split Sunday?

 

[strong]

Against opponents that struggle with a big power back, Tolbert will likely play a bigger role. Against opponents that you can beat with speed and acceleration, Mathews will be the lead guy. And I suspect Mathews will be the lead guy more often that Tolbert going forward, but I think it will depend a lot on the matchup and how SD wants to attack the defense.

i think this is one of those announcer-comments that gets overused after-the-fact as a way of explaining differences in performance of two runningbacks. while i think certain defensive packages may be more effective against a plodding runner than a speedy guy, or vice versa, making broad generalizations about a team's ability against one type of runner vs. the other is unlikely to be rooted in any quantifiable evidence. i just don't think there's defenses in the NFL that literally struggle as a whole against a power back but are great against speed and acceleration.

maybe i'm wrong, but what teams stand out to you as good at stopping one type of runner but weak against the other, and where do you go to get your information on that?

 

[FF Ninja]

Against opponents that struggle with a big power back, Tolbert will likely play a bigger role. Against opponents that you can beat with speed and acceleration, Mathews will be the lead guy. And I suspect Mathews will be the lead guy more often that Tolbert going forward, but I think it will depend a lot on the matchup and how SD wants to attack the defense.

i think this is one of those announcer-comments that gets overused after-the-fact as a way of explaining differences in performance of two runningbacks. while i think certain defensive packages may be more effective against a plodding runner than a speedy guy, or vice versa, making broad generalizations about a team's ability against one type of runner vs. the other is unlikely to be rooted in any quantifiable evidence. i just don't think there's defenses in the NFL that literally struggle as a whole against a power back but are great against speed and acceleration.

maybe i'm wrong, but what teams stand out to you as good at stopping one type of runner but weak against the other, and where do you go to get your information on that?

Agreed. That concept is nonsense. Plus, Mathews is not exactly a Reggie Bush guy. He's got plenty of power. We are not talking about a scat back + Bettis. There is an overlap of skills here.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Tolbert missed practice yesterday, and isn't practicing today either, per Kevin Acee.

Mr. Mathews, you only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow, this opportunity comes one in a lifetime yo

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Tolbert missed practice yesterday, and isn't practicing today either, per Kevin Acee.Mr. Mathews, you only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow, this opportunity comes one in a lifetime yo

Have you heard how contrite Tolbert sounded after the Pats game? I'm a fan of Mathews too but honestly, this may be a pretty nice week for Tolbert. The guy cares a lot and he's going to be running with chip on shoulder Sunday. He'll practice tomorrow and be out there on Sunday, guaranteed.

 

[Touchdown There]

Tolbert missed practice yesterday, and isn't practicing today either, per Kevin Acee.Mr. Mathews, you only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow, this opportunity comes one in a lifetime yo

Have you heard how contrite Tolbert sounded after the Pats game? I'm a fan of Mathews too but honestly, this may be a pretty nice week for Tolbert. The guy cares a lot and he's going to be running with chip on shoulder Sunday. He'll practice tomorrow and be out there on Sunday, guaranteed.

Guaranteed?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

According to ProFootballFocus, Mathews is getting more yards after contact than Tolbert so far this season.

 

[moderated]

According to ProFootballFocus, Mathews is getting more yards after contact than Tolbert so far this season.

Is there really anything Tolbert does better? Mathews is probably better in short yardage as well but the coaches don't want to risk injuring him in the short yardage collisions.Probably pass protection, but that's only due to tolbert having more experience.

 

[VaTerp]

According to ProFootballFocus, Mathews is getting more yards after contact than Tolbert so far this season.

Is there really anything Tolbert does better? Mathews is probably better in short yardage as well but the coaches don't want to risk injuring him in the short yardage collisions.Probably pass protection, but that's only due to tolbert having more experience.

I have been unsuccessfully trying to trade for Mathews in every league I'm in and after this week will be trying to deal Tolbert in the league I have him in.Mathews has looked great this year and I think he will be a top RB2 going forward. Tolbert will be a decent flex option in PPR due to his role but I think the writing is on the wall.I was high on Mathews last season but I guess I was a year too early. He's a talented, versatile back in an elite offense. I think he's a late first rounder in 2012 drafts.

 

[strong]

Tolbert missed practice yesterday, and isn't practicing today either, per Kevin Acee.Mr. Mathews, you only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow, this opportunity comes one in a lifetime yo

Have you heard how contrite Tolbert sounded after the Pats game? I'm a fan of Mathews too but honestly, this may be a pretty nice week for Tolbert. The guy cares a lot and he's going to be running with chip on shoulder Sunday. He'll practice tomorrow and be out there on Sunday, guaranteed.

he can sh** in one hand and apologize in the other and see which one fills up first.

 

[Raidersfan18]

Agree with the other guy, as ive been trying to trade for Mathews everywhere. I'm upset i couldn't get it done, as I think this week is his coming out party.

 

[RhymesMcJuice]

According to ProFootballFocus, Mathews is getting more yards after contact than Tolbert so far this season.

Is there really anything Tolbert does better? Mathews is probably better in short yardage as well but the coaches don't want to risk injuring him in the short yardage collisions.Probably pass protection, but that's only due to tolbert having more experience.

Mathews would be the every down back if the Chargers thought he wouldn't be putting Rivers at risk with his blocking. Shore that up and he's a stud RB but until then he's going to be splitting time with the guy who can protect Rivers.

 

[VaTerp]

It's over for us Tolbert owners.

Hopefully he gets a bunch of garbage time pts today and we can try to sell tomorrow but the Ryan Mathews show has officially begun IMO.

Actually, given where we got him Tolbert is still decent value as a RB4, flex option but the days of him being a weekly lineup consideration are over.

I'd be hard pressed to think of 12 Rbs I'd rather own than Mathews going forward.

 

[The Dude]

Anything can still happen.

But this is a perfect example of a whole bunch of posters who act like they have a direct line to Norv Turner and that they are in the know. The point is you are sitting on your couch on Sundays - what you post is no better than an opinion - do not act like it's fact.

 

[nysportsfan]

Mathews looks great here. He is running through first contact often, too.

 

[Touchdown Syndrome]

Cha-ching...TD #2.

The cream has risen to the top.

 

[socrates]

Cha-ching...TD #2.The cream has risen to the top.

Agreed. Tolbert owners have been in denial; Mathews is clearly the superior back.

 

[Dought Man]

Happily eating crow... I thought the bowling ball had been given the #1 spot. Clearly not the case...

 

[ldizzle]

Happily eating crow... I thought the bowling ball had been given the #1 spot. Clearly not the case...

im suprised there isnt more talk of this. Mathews got the GL touches, which was really the only thing holding him back this year. we dont know if this will be the case going forward but if i was a Tolbert owner i would be looking to sell for something while i can...

 

[Tau837]

But this is the key: the reason Mathews did not carry the load last year is because he was not healthy and because Tolbert emerged, not due to any failing on Mathews' part. Mathews' talent hasn't changed. As Gunz said, you either believe in it or you don't.

Your "key" is incorrect. He owned the HB position in the NE game, went 8 for 15 and clearly "hadnt gotten it going" all season long to that point. The next week RM and MT split carries from that point forward until MTs injury. RM had every chance to grab the spot when he came back and didnt run with it.

Hey Tango... thanks for playing.

 

[Tau837]

It's funny how people can watch the same game and have totally different conclusions.IMO, Mathews looked better. He had 3 20+ yard plays; Tolbert had none. Mathews had 5 plays of 10+ yards in 15 touches; Tolbert had 4 in 21 touches. You can't teach explosiveness. As would be expected after saying that, the numbers favor Mathews:Mathews 12/45 rushing and 3/73 receivingTolbert 12/35 rushing and 9/58 receivingTolbert had 3 TDs, but IMO that has to do with how they were used situationally. I'm sure Tolbert will continue to have a significant role all season provided he stays healthy, but if they both play like they did today, IMO Mathews is going to claim a bigger role, including touches in the red zone.

I'm curious as to what you saw that would indicate Mathews will take RZ touches? Tolbert was extremely effective today, and has 14 TDs in the past 16 games. Looking at this objectively, it appears to me that Norm is intent on using Tolbert at the GL.

Maybe my post wasn't clear. I think Tolbert played well today. I think Mathews played better. If Mathews continues to play better, it stands to reason he will get more touches, including more red zone touches.

Your post was clear. I'm saying there is absolutely nothing I saw that supports your statement about RZ touches. Tolbert had EVERY touch inside the 10 today.

Yes, I'm talking about the remaining 15 games, not today's game. Do you think Toblert will get EVERY touch inside the 10 for the rest of the season?

Edit to Add: Not all touches, but 80-90% of them inside the 10.

Mash, have you changed your thinking on this yet?

 

[GoBirds]

Feels good to be a Mathews owner.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Mash, have you changed your thinking on this yet?

Finger wagging and "I told you so's" are poor form and bad karma.

 

[bluesclues]

Matthews hasnt proven to stay healthy for long.

Dont get too excited yet.

 

[Tau837]

Mash, have you changed your thinking on this yet?

Finger wagging and "I told you so's" are poor form and bad karma.

You appear to be reading more into my post you quoted than is there.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Mash, have you changed your thinking on this yet?

Finger wagging and "I told you so's" are poor form and bad karma.

You appear to be reading more into my post you quoted than is there.

I based it on the 3 posts in a row you did.

 

[Tango]

But this is the key: the reason Mathews did not carry the load last year is because he was not healthy and because Tolbert emerged, not due to any failing on Mathews' part. Mathews' talent hasn't changed. As Gunz said, you either believe in it or you don't.

Your "key" is incorrect. He owned the HB position in the NE game, went 8 for 15 and clearly "hadnt gotten it going" all season long to that point. The next week RM and MT split carries from that point forward until MTs injury. RM had every chance to grab the spot when he came back and didnt run with it.

Hey Tango... thanks for playing.

Wow, your reading comprehension needs work. I liked Matthews this year; still do. I disagreed with your silly revisionism regarding his 2010 performance. Because you and I are both profiting from his 2011 success doesnt make your silly assertions about 2010 correct.

 

[Tau837]

Mash, have you changed your thinking on this yet?

Finger wagging and "I told you so's" are poor form and bad karma.

You appear to be reading more into my post you quoted than is there.

I based it on the 3 posts in a row you did.

The only person I addressed in the way you suggest is Tango, and in his case I simply used a phrase that he first used earlier in the thread. In general, three weeks is early to draw conclusions. However, IMO Mathews has outplayed Tolbert in all three games so far, and both his usage and performance are trending up, while Tolbert's are both trending down. At this point, IMO it will be surprising if Mathews falters, barring injury.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Mash, have you changed your thinking on this yet?

Finger wagging and "I told you so's" are poor form and bad karma.

You appear to be reading more into my post you quoted than is there.

I based it on the 3 posts in a row you did.

The only person I addressed in the way you suggest is Tango, and in his case I simply used a phrase that he first used earlier in the thread. In general, three weeks is early to draw conclusions. However, IMO Mathews has outplayed Tolbert in all three games so far, and both his usage and performance are trending up, while Tolbert's are both trending down. At this point, IMO it will be surprising if Mathews falters, barring injury.

I don't disagree with you about Mathews. I tried so hard to get him after the 1st and 2nd weeks. Now I think it's too late because he keeps getting better. But things happen so fast from week to week. I was talking with a guy about trading for Kenny Britt this past week. I'm so glad now that he had no interest in selling.

 

[Tango]

Hey Tango... thanks for playing.

All this being said...he could certainly turn it around and will get plenty of opportunity to do so; I think he's a great selection for fantasy leagues b/c of his lowish ADP and the variability around his mean projections. Variability wins championships . If he plays like he did against the Bengals & Broncos (when Tolbert was hurt for 6 of the 8 quarters) then he'll be just fine...but he is certainly not the GL RB. If Tolbert keeps fumbling and RM stops fumbling himself, RM will be even better.

My bolding. Thanks for playing Just Win Baby. It's fun to show up someone who goes out of their to try to show you up out of nowhere; and falls flat on their face.

 

[Tau837]

Hey Tango... thanks for playing.

All this being said...he could certainly turn it around and will get plenty of opportunity to do so; I think he's a great selection for fantasy leagues b/c of his lowish ADP and the variability around his mean projections. Variability wins championships . If he plays like he did against the Bengals & Broncos (when Tolbert was hurt for 6 of the 8 quarters) then he'll be just fine...but he is certainly not the GL RB. If Tolbert keeps fumbling and RM stops fumbling himself, RM will be even better.

My bolding. Thanks for playing Just Win Baby. It's fun to show up someone who goes out of their to try to show you up out of nowhere; and falls flat on their face.

I never disagreed with you about that post of yours. You are still just as wrong about your statements in this thread with which I did disagree. And my stance on those posts was based on my belief in Mathews' talent, as stated throughout, which was obviously justified. If you think I fell flat on my face in this thread, then you are the one who needs work on reading comprehension.ETA: Just look at my post that you cut out of your quote here:

But this is the key: the reason Mathews did not carry the load last year is because he was not healthy and because Tolbert emerged, not due to any failing on Mathews' part. Mathews' talent hasn't changed. As Gunz said, you either believe in it or you don't.

You disagreed. I'm comfortable that what we are seeing this year proves my stance correct.

 

[Tau837]

Clearly a mistake to engage Tango on this again. My apologies. Don't want to derail the thread further.

 

[Tango]

Hey Tango... thanks for playing.

All this being said...he could certainly turn it around and will get plenty of opportunity to do so; I think he's a great selection for fantasy leagues b/c of his lowish ADP and the variability around his mean projections. Variability wins championships . If he plays like he did against the Bengals & Broncos (when Tolbert was hurt for 6 of the 8 quarters) then he'll be just fine...but he is certainly not the GL RB. If Tolbert keeps fumbling and RM stops fumbling himself, RM will be even better.

My bolding. Thanks for playing Just Win Baby. It's fun to show up someone who goes out of their to try to show you up out of nowhere; and falls flat on their face.

I never disagreed with you about that post of yours. You are still just as wrong about your statements in this thread with which I did disagree. And my stance on those posts was based on my belief in Mathews' talent, as stated throughout, which was obviously justified. If you think I fell flat on my face in this thread, then you are the one who needs work on reading comprehension.

Since you'd like to explore the subject of how you fell flat on your face:You implying that I predicted doom for RM this year with your post a few up from here was a good example of flat-face-falling. You confused my objection for your 2010 revisionism for a prediction on 2011 performance.

 

[Tango]

Clearly a mistake to engage Tango on this again. My apologies. Don't want to derail the thread further.

ok, i'd be pleased to engage in a treaty on this. Good day for RM, that's what matters

 

[The Dude]

 

[jbz]

Mathews looked great. Looks like the window to trade for him just got really small. Boo.

 

[Touchdown There]

It's over for us Tolbert owners.

Hopefully he gets a bunch of garbage time pts today and we can try to sell tomorrow but the Ryan Mathews show has officially begun IMO.

Actually, given where we got him Tolbert is still decent value as a RB4, flex option but the days of him being a weekly lineup consideration are over.

I'd be hard pressed to think of 12 Rbs I'd rather own than Mathews going forward.

Tolbert is still going to be a value from his ADP. I think what you are alluding to is the same thing that I was earlier in this thread. Tolbert owners thought this was a Mathews VS Tolbert debate. They wanted Tolbert to be the starter and get the majority of the reps at the expense of Mathews. It is also the reason why this thread has 13 pages and keeps getting popped weekly.Mathews and Tolbert make a good team and they are good for each other. Tolbert is not going anywhere. Mathews is clearly the better talent and should get the majority of the reps.

 

[Lester Long]

It's over for us Tolbert owners.

Hopefully he gets a bunch of garbage time pts today and we can try to sell tomorrow but the Ryan Mathews show has officially begun IMO.

Actually, given where we got him Tolbert is still decent value as a RB4, flex option but the days of him being a weekly lineup consideration are over.

I'd be hard pressed to think of 12 Rbs I'd rather own than Mathews going forward.

Tolbert is still going to be a value from his ADP. I think what you are alluding to is the same thing that I was earlier in this thread. Tolbert owners thought this was a Mathews VS Tolbert debate. They wanted Tolbert to be the starter and get the majority of the reps at the expense of Mathews. It is also the reason why this thread has 13 pages and keeps getting popped weekly.Mathews and Tolbert make a good team and they are good for each other. Tolbert is not going anywhere. Mathews is clearly the better talent and should get the majority of the reps.

Yeah, Matthews has proven he is better in every single game. from here on I consider Tolbert a high end handcuff.

 

[Thumper]

If Matthews continues to get the amount of touches he got today as well as the goal line carries he will easily be a top ten maybe even top 5 rb rest of the season.

 

[silentcoach]

Be cautious of rbs that get most of their opportunities from receiving and not from rushing attempts in a 2 rb system. The better rushing rb will usually win out. (edit: this is different from a 3 back system like in New Orleans, where Sproles role IS to catch.) Matthews shows he can catch just as well as tolbert.

Anyhow, Tolbert was nursing an injury, right? That sure did not help.

 

[Louisville Slugger]

If Matthews continues to get the amount of touches he got today as well as the goal line carries he will easily be a top ten maybe even top 5 rb rest of the season.

Top five isn't being realistic, but a top 10-15 isn't totally out of the question. The guy is far more talented a runner than Tolbert is and he is in a great offense.

 

[FF Ninja]

If Matthews continues to get the amount of touches he got today as well as the goal line carries he will easily be a top ten maybe even top 5 rb rest of the season.

Top five isn't being realistic, but a top 10-15 isn't totally out of the question. The guy is far more talented a runner than Tolbert is and he is in a great offense.

He's #5 right now... and that's with two games in which he split carries and did not get goal line touches.

 

[Mag1234]

Yep, looks like Norv finally went with the talent. Which is a bummer as a Tolbert owner :( .. Especially since Rivers is not looking as studly as usual and they might be running more. But I think we need one more game to rule out the calf injury / hot hand / etc being the reason Mathews got almost all of the action. One more like this though and Tolbert only has value if Mathews goes down. I think you gotta hold on to Tolbert, though.. If Mathews gets 20+ carries a game injury is a definite possibility. Or trade him to the Mathews owner.

 

[T J]

If Matthews continues to get the amount of touches he got today as well as the goal line carries he will easily be a top ten maybe even top 5 rb rest of the season.

Top five isn't being realistic, but a top 10-15 isn't totally out of the question. The guy is far more talented a runner than Tolbert is and he is in a great offense.

I do think a top 5 is realistic - may not happen, but realistic? Sure. But to say a top "10-15 isn't totally out of the question" suggests to me that you think even that is a stretch. And if that's the case, I'd say you're way off (barring injury). If Matthews stays healthy, he is a lock to be top 10-15 and I'd say pushing top 5. Don't think he quite gets to top 5, but I'd say solidly in the 6-10 range.

 

[VaTerp]

It's over for us Tolbert owners.

Hopefully he gets a bunch of garbage time pts today and we can try to sell tomorrow but the Ryan Mathews show has officially begun IMO.

Actually, given where we got him Tolbert is still decent value as a RB4, flex option but the days of him being a weekly lineup consideration are over.

I'd be hard pressed to think of 12 Rbs I'd rather own than Mathews going forward.

Tolbert is still going to be a value from his ADP. I think what you are alluding to is the same thing that I was earlier in this thread. Tolbert owners thought this was a Mathews VS Tolbert debate. They wanted Tolbert to be the starter and get the majority of the reps at the expense of Mathews. It is also the reason why this thread has 13 pages and keeps getting popped weekly.Mathews and Tolbert make a good team and they are good for each other. Tolbert is not going anywhere. Mathews is clearly the better talent and should get the majority of the reps.

Disagree somewhat.Obviously I'm a Tolbert owner but have made it very clear in this thread that I thought Mathews was getting better and would eventually take over as the lead FF Rb after Tolbert's 3 TD debut gave some Tolbert owners delusions of grandeur.

While they do make a good team and may be good for each other and the Chargers in real football, in the FF world there are only so many points to go around. And in a sense, it is Mathews vs Tolbert to see who will get the RB FF points available in this offense.

It was obvious to any objective person that Mathews was the much more talented RB and Tolbert is a glorified FB. But what gave Tolbert value was that he was getting MUCH more touches in the redzone and work on 3rd downs. Now that the coaching staff has more trust in using Mathews in those situations and he has taken advantage of the opportunities, there is really no reason not to continue to use like he was yesterday. He is simply the better playmaker and with Gates iffy and SD seemingly always playing below their talent level, they need their best playmaker at the position on the field even moreso.

Mathews is quickly establishing that he can be a feature RB, as much as there is in today's NFL. And as someone else stated Tolbert is nothing more than a high end handcuff now. Sure he still has some value, will get a few TDs, and a couple of receptions for PPR but he is no longer a strong weekly lineup conisderation IMO.

After week 1 most knew not to expect 3 Tds again but Tolbert looked like he would be a strong RB3/flex guy. But we all know things can change in one week in the NFL. Again, I no longer consider Tolbert someone you can feel comfortable putting in your lineup while Mathews has gone from a risky play to RB1 territory.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Mathews is now the #5 RB in non-PPR, #4 RB overall in PPR.

If the draft was held today, would he go top 5 overall? McFadden, Rice, and AP are the RBs I could see taken in front of Mathews - and you could argue that Mathews has as much upside as any of those guys due to the fact that he plays in the best offense.

Sit back and enjoy the ride Mathews owners.

 

[Touchdown There]

It's over for us Tolbert owners.

Hopefully he gets a bunch of garbage time pts today and we can try to sell tomorrow but the Ryan Mathews show has officially begun IMO.

Actually, given where we got him Tolbert is still decent value as a RB4, flex option but the days of him being a weekly lineup consideration are over.

I'd be hard pressed to think of 12 Rbs I'd rather own than Mathews going forward.

Tolbert is still going to be a value from his ADP. I think what you are alluding to is the same thing that I was earlier in this thread. Tolbert owners thought this was a Mathews VS Tolbert debate. They wanted Tolbert to be the starter and get the majority of the reps at the expense of Mathews. It is also the reason why this thread has 13 pages and keeps getting popped weekly.Mathews and Tolbert make a good team and they are good for each other. Tolbert is not going anywhere. Mathews is clearly the better talent and should get the majority of the reps.

Disagree somewhat.Obviously I'm a Tolbert owner but have made it very clear in this thread that I thought Mathews was getting better and would eventually take over as the lead FF Rb after Tolbert's 3 TD debut gave some Tolbert owners delusions of grandeur.

While they do make a good team and may be good for each other and the Chargers in real football, in the FF world there are only so many points to go around. And in a sense, it is Mathews vs Tolbert to see who will get the RB FF points available in this offense.

Total fantasy points in a 1 ppr league:Mathews: 67.8

Tolbert: 53.9

Total of Chargers backfield: 121.7

PPG, Charger backfield: 40.6

Mathews is 4th overall and Tolbert is 10th. I really do not think people are grabbing the reality of the situation. Mathews is an elite fantasy rb for 2011 and Tolbert will likely move down the list, but it would be fair to say he is an RB2 at worst, RB3.

 

[tommyGunZ]

SD - RB Mike Tolbert dealing with knee injury

Source: ProFootballTalk.com - Mike Florio

San Diego Chargers RB Mike Tolbert (knee) carried 12 times for 35 yards and a touchdown in Week 1 against the Minnesota Vikings, and he added nine receptions for 58 yards and two scores. However, he left the game in the fourth quarter due to a knee injury. It is not believed to be serious.

[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ OUR VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]

Tolbert was money in the red zone, and there's no reason that should change going forward. Ryan Mathews is more explosive, but Tolbert is the better fantasy RB.

---

Agree with Joe's sentiment that the knee didn't appear to be serious. THe way they were working it almost looked like a cramping issue. I'll be surprised if there are any lingering issues with it.

I also agree with Joe's sentiment that Tolbert should continue to be the better fantasy back over the course of the year.... ESPECIALLY when you factor in his ADP.

Oof.

 

[VaTerp]

It's over for us Tolbert owners.

Hopefully he gets a bunch of garbage time pts today and we can try to sell tomorrow but the Ryan Mathews show has officially begun IMO.

Actually, given where we got him Tolbert is still decent value as a RB4, flex option but the days of him being a weekly lineup consideration are over.

I'd be hard pressed to think of 12 Rbs I'd rather own than Mathews going forward.

Tolbert is still going to be a value from his ADP. I think what you are alluding to is the same thing that I was earlier in this thread. Tolbert owners thought this was a Mathews VS Tolbert debate. They wanted Tolbert to be the starter and get the majority of the reps at the expense of Mathews. It is also the reason why this thread has 13 pages and keeps getting popped weekly.Mathews and Tolbert make a good team and they are good for each other. Tolbert is not going anywhere. Mathews is clearly the better talent and should get the majority of the reps.

Disagree somewhat.Obviously I'm a Tolbert owner but have made it very clear in this thread that I thought Mathews was getting better and would eventually take over as the lead FF Rb after Tolbert's 3 TD debut gave some Tolbert owners delusions of grandeur.

While they do make a good team and may be good for each other and the Chargers in real football, in the FF world there are only so many points to go around. And in a sense, it is Mathews vs Tolbert to see who will get the RB FF points available in this offense.

Total fantasy points in a 1 ppr league:Mathews: 67.8

Tolbert: 53.9

Total of Chargers backfield: 121.7

PPG, Charger backfield: 40.6

Mathews is 4th overall and Tolbert is 10th. I really do not think people are grabbing the reality of the situation. Mathews is an elite fantasy rb for 2011 and Tolbert will likely move down the list, but it would be fair to say he is an RB2 at worst, RB3.

Tolbert is 10th right now based on a 3 TD game and averaging 8.5 receptions in the first 2 games. I think he is gonna fall WAY off that pace. The rest of the season I expect more stat lines like yesterday than I do weeks 1 or 2. People can talk about the calf injury but I don't think that's what limited his touches to such an extent. I think Mathews is simply too good to keep off the field right now.

As long as Mathews is healthy, NO WAY do I feel comfortable with Tolbert as a RB2 or RB3 going forward. IMO he's a high end handcuff that will vulture a few TDs and have a nice PPR game every now and then. That's it. RB2 going forward is crazy talk IMO.