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Ryan Matthews owners. Have you cut bait or are you holding? (1 Viewer)

Breesisdaman

Footballguy
Danny Woodhead is in on the majority of pass plays and Brown
is vulchering TD's in what seems to be a more pass oriented offensive scheme . Matthews seems pretty useless up until this point. Is there any hope? Any reason you are hanging on to him?

 

ImTheScientist

Footballguy
Danny Woodhead is in on the majority of pass plays and Brown

is vulchering TD's in what seems to be a more pass oriented offensive scheme . Matthews seems pretty useless up until this point. Is there any hope? Any reason you are hanging on to him?
Unless you are in a small league w/ noobs there is no reason to cut a RB who is getting 15+ carries a week.

 

monk

Footballguy
The guy looks good ...just not getting enough opportunities. Unfortunately I don't think that is going to change

 

B-Deep

Footballguy
I was assured this guy would be a stud, it'll happen

ronnie brown and danny woodhead are not threats to him, there's a thread on it, check it out

(the above post was sarcasm)

 

FF Ninja

Footballguy
The guy looks good ...just not getting enough opportunities. Unfortunately I don't think that is going to change
I'm anxiously awaiting his free agency. I'm not saying Brown and Woodhead aren't decent role players, but it's almost like they are the featured RBs and Mathews is the role player. It doesn't make sense. He's got good hands and I've seen him block well, so I don't understand why they refuse to use him. He's playing the Mark Ingram role except without the obvious goal line plays.

 

zandbak

Footballguy
I legit have no idea why SD doesn't try to trade him. He's never been heavily used in the years he's been in SD and this year is even worse. Might as well take his 10 carries a game and split em up amongst Woodhead/Brown. He is such a pointless piece to that offense.

 

B-Deep

Footballguy
I legit have no idea why SD doesn't try to trade him. He's never been heavily used in the years he's been in SD and this year is even worse. Might as well take his 10 carries a game and split em up amongst Woodhead/Brown. He is such a pointless piece to that offense.
what do you think they could get for him?

 

Clifford

Footballguy
SD has obviously decided he can't pass protect or hold on to the ball. Both of which may be true. My hope is that he breaks a long one soon and I can trade him.

 

iamkoza

Footballguy
i say hold on to him... he is untradeable at this point... but looking at the next 4-5 weeks the schedule has some soft D's coming up.... at least he is getting 15 carries a game

 

One

Not Allowed In Mexico
This is a tough one since he actually looks great this season. Hopefully you aren't having to depend on him, but I'd have to think he's about to start popping some big plays on those 15 carries to sweeten his numbers a little bit. Maybe his role could increase as the season rolls on. We'll see.

 

Shutout

Footballguy
This is a head scratcher. He looks like a player except they only play him about a third of the time. He would easily be in the top 5 right now if they would use him. The Chargers have ahd at least 4 1st and goals this year and ignored him. They have been in games where he could easily have ahd 8-10 more carries. But when you split the pie into so many pieces, no one is going to eat hearty.

In my ppr, if he had just 5-6 more carries at his current ypc and had been able to cash in on just one of those goal line carries, he would be in the RB7-9 neighborhood. I know that the "what if" game is pointless but I use it as a way to illustrate that, relatively speaking, and in comparison to what other RBs are actually producing right now, he is easily a top 10 RB right now with just a smidge of commitment to him.

 
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menobrown

Footballguy
This is a head scratcher. He looks like a player except they only play him about a third of the time. He would easily be in the top 5 right now if they would use him. The Chargers have ahd at least 4 1st and goals this year and ignored him. They have been in games where he could easily have ahd 8-10 more carries. But when you split the pie into so many pieces, no one is going to eat hearty.
Yes you are right with all of this.

I came into the season thinking not a single thing was better about his situation. The GM who picked and had a vested interest left the building, historically fantasy friendly RB coach was gone, lost his best OL and the team went out in FA and added a guy almost certain to be the primary third down back.

So everything about his situation looks worse than last year when and as we know he was not that good than.

Still he looked great so I picked him a few leagues.

And he still looks great but all the items I thought made his situation worse are coming to fruition as well.

He's actually a good reminder for the talent/opportunity debate. At times I've been burnt badly selected an inferior talent due to better opportunity. That was in my head when I selected Mathews this year. People seem to always say "pick talent". Here is a case where talent is not the issue, it's his usage.

I see noting changing for him this year. I'll still be holding him but as a bye week/injury replacement. A RB4 type who you just hope finds the end zone that day but even if for once Mathews was the guy who remained healthy and Brown or Woodhead went down the other guy would still hog the third down work. Unless the Chargers trust him on passing downs he is what he is, a guy who likely won't hit double digits unless he scores a TD.

 

hoopvillian

Footballguy
I drafted him thinking "No way this new coach is as much a moron as Norv. He will let Mathews have 1st and 2nd down and designate Ronnie Brown as an injury backup".

I was wrong.

 

Jayded

Footballguy
He's in the middle ground territory. Thankfully he's an RB3 or RB4 for most of us, and at best a bye week filler. Not sure you'll get more than that out of him or find better than that on the wire by cutting him loose for the flavor of the week. You can't sell him for a bag of rocks either, so you might as well hold him and use him as the RB3/4 that he is where fitting.

 

ShamrockPride

Footballguy
Was looking to trade for him in my dynasty this past week, but that TD by Brown yesterday really soured anything I was willing to give up for him beyond a low ball offer. Such a waste of talent.

 

Not Sleeping

Footballguy
I drafted McFadden and Mathews as my RB1 and RB2 last year...obviously it was a lost season and I swore I'd never touch them again.

Fast-forward to this year and both backs were still hanging around in middle rounds of my draft and I couldn't help myself. I took them both again, this time as an RB2 and RB4 respectively. So with my Mathews expectations already lowered to RB4-levels (which basically means desperation play in case of emergency), I'm still planning on hanging on to him.

 

Josh the FunkDOC

Footballguy
the main value i see in him at this point is as that last spare part to complete a buy-low trade

in my league (PPR, no flex) the roddy white owner is 0-3 and a total guppy, and i have a couple borderline WR2/3 guys. plan on packaging mathews with one of them since RB depth is an issue for him as well.

if that fails i'll probably make a somewhat similar offer for MJD since his owner is real weak at WR

i feel like you would be much better served making a move like this than holding onto him, since it's not just one but two guys cutting into his touches...but holding on isn't the absolute worst thing either since there aren't a ton of RBs out there who guarantee you a few points every game

 

Shutout

Footballguy
yeah, at this point, if he's your #2, you gotta act on something and if he is your #3 or worse, you probably just stand pat.

 

B-Deep

Footballguy
hoopvillian said:
I drafted him thinking "No way this new coach is as much a moron as Norv. He will let Mathews have 1st and 2nd down and designate Ronnie Brown as an injury backup".

I was wrong.
maybe you were wrong about thinking a coach who did not use him was a moron

when 2 separate regimes both fail to use a player, i start to question the player more than the regimes

 

hoopvillian

Footballguy
hoopvillian said:
I drafted him thinking "No way this new coach is as much a moron as Norv. He will let Mathews have 1st and 2nd down and designate Ronnie Brown as an injury backup".

I was wrong.
maybe you were wrong about thinking a coach who did not use him was a moron

when 2 separate regimes both fail to use a player, i start to question the player more than the regimes
Yes, I agree. They see something, and I don't think it's just trust issues.

 

AcousticNut

Footballguy
Holding here. Can't get much value in a trade and he at least puts up SOME points, which makes him a viable filler for byes.

 

the_Truth

Footballguy
Clifford said:
SD has obviously decided he can't pass protect or hold on to the ball. Both of which may be true. My hope is that he breaks a long one soon and I can trade him.
The NFL average for RBs is one fumble every 96 touches.

For his career to date Mathews has fumbled once every 55 touches.

But between last year and this year he fumbled only once every 90 touches- about average.

Mathews woudn't be the first skilled RB to have ball control issues his first couple years in the league and later figure things out (see AP, Barry Sanders, Emmit Smith, etc.)

I think the ball control thing is a reputation that attached to him in his very first two games in the league. And he's fumbled just enough since then to be unable to shake it. But I don't see ball control as an issue for him going forward.

All of this analysis is really beside the point though since it only matters what his GM and coaches think.

 

Billy Ball Thorton

Footballguy
Mathews has looked quit good when given the chance. His first play was a TD on a wheel route and I thought to myself "jackpot"

Since then Whiz has played musical chairs with his RB. As someone who followed closely to the RB's while Whiz was Head Coach of the Cardinals I can tell you he's clueless. He does not know how to utilize a RB.

Only hope is by them losing they look to switch things up. If they were winning with this formula, I would say there is no hope. Let's just hope they continue to lose Games until a change is made.

 

zandbak

Footballguy
I like how they don't trust him on passing downs, yet the first offensive play from scrimmage week 2 they use him on a passing play and he scores a TD. He must be brutal in pass prot.

hoopvillian said:
I drafted him thinking "No way this new coach is as much a moron as Norv. He will let Mathews have 1st and 2nd down and designate Ronnie Brown as an injury backup".

I was wrong.
maybe you were wrong about thinking a coach who did not use him was a moron

when 2 separate regimes both fail to use a player, i start to question the player more than the regimes
This is possibly true. However for 2 years in a row, every single time I see Mathews play it's the same play: A handoff and a run up the gut into a defense stacking the box. Every. Single. Time.

 
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RGIII HTTR

Footballguy
Too productive to drop, not productive enough to start. Errrrr......when he gets the opportunity, he can produce and I think any Matthews owner realizes this, so we hold or hope to package him in a deal on the tail end to get something better for our roster.

 

Slapdash

Footballguy
I have him on a team that is otherwise a steaming pile of ####. I will keep him but not play him if MJD and Reggie Bush are healthy.

It is pretty frustrating that he loses touches to a guy like Ronnie Brown when Matthews is running so well.

 

AngryPatriot

Footballguy
The common problem is there's no depth on the waiver wire! So a lot of us have to hold and hope. I have more faith in Woodhead putting up a couple random big games than RM at this point. Maybe they'll gain faith in him over the course of the year....

 

RGIII HTTR

Footballguy
The common problem is there's no depth on the waiver wire! So a lot of us have to hold and hope. I have more faith in Woodhead putting up a couple random big games than RM at this point. Maybe they'll gain faith in him over the course of the year....
I think it will take an injury to Ronnie Brown or Woodhead for them to lean on him more. Once given the true opportunity, they might like what he can do when he gets 20 or more touches a game. He proved that he can be productive in the passing game (receiving) in game one with a nice TD catch. Unfortunately, this guy is just a very frustrating player to have on your fantasy roster at the moment.

 

RBM

Footballguy
For some reason I still think this guy can be a player. I'm holding, although it might be because there is no one to pick up in my league.

Just not startable though in his current role. Strictly between the 20s, meaningless carries, never catch a pass. And man was I pumped after that first play of the season. Weird

 

Hoosier16

Footballguy
This is possibly true. However for 2 years in a row, every single time I see Mathews play it's the same play: A handoff and a run up the gut into a defense stacking the box. Every. Single. Time.
So far this year, the Chargers have run about 40% of the time. When Mathews is in, they run nearly 73% of the time. Last week, they ran on 89% of his snaps. When the defense knows what the play will be, it's amazing he has any room to run at all.

 

RGIII HTTR

Footballguy
Hoosier16 said:
zandbak said:
This is possibly true. However for 2 years in a row, every single time I see Mathews play it's the same play: A handoff and a run up the gut into a defense stacking the box. Every. Single. Time.
So far this year, the Chargers have run about 40% of the time. When Mathews is in, they run nearly 73% of the time. Last week, they ran on 89% of his snaps. When the defense knows what the play will be, it's amazing he has any room to run at all.
Wow, great stats!!! Thanks for sharing that. Clearly they see him as their runner, the problem is they don't see him as a viable pass protector, which is the other 60% of the time...yikes!

 

Just Win Baby

Footballguy
RGIII HTTR said:
AngryPatriot said:
The common problem is there's no depth on the waiver wire! So a lot of us have to hold and hope. I have more faith in Woodhead putting up a couple random big games than RM at this point. Maybe they'll gain faith in him over the course of the year....
I think it will take an injury to Ronnie Brown or Woodhead for them to lean on him more. Once given the true opportunity, they might like what he can do when he gets 20 or more touches a game. He proved that he can be productive in the passing game (receiving) in game one with a nice TD catch. Unfortunately, this guy is just a very frustrating player to have on your fantasy roster at the moment.
He proved that in 2011, when:

- He had 50 receptions for 455 yards (9.1 ypr) in 14 games.

- 452 of those yards came after the catch (9.0 ypr).

- PFF ranked him as the 8th best receiving RB in the NFL, despite him missing 2 games (PFF's rating is cumulative).

- Per PFF, he was #8 among all RBs with at least 20 targets in Yards Per Route Run.

- Per Football Outsiders, he was #4 in receiving DYAR, #6 in receiving DVOA, and #4 in receiving Effective Yards.

Even last year, though his receiving totals were more modest:

- He had 39 receptions for 252 yards (6.5 ypr) in 12 games.

- Though his ypr went down compared to 2011, his YAC went up! He had 366 yards after the catch (9.4 ypr).

- Only 13 RBs in the NFL broke more tackles as a receiver, and most of those RBs played more games and/or had more receptions to do it.

- PFF ranked him as the 11th best receiving RB in the NFL, despite him missing 4 games (PFF's rating is cumulative).

There should be no doubt that he is an effective receiving RB. Apparently, the current coaching staff thinks Brown and Woodhead are better. I think Woodhead is a different kind of player who deserves a role on passing downs. But IMO the Chargers would be better off giving Mathews more snaps, carries, and targets, and relegating Brown to just a few occasional snaps.

 

Just Win Baby

Footballguy
Hoosier16 said:
zandbak said:
This is possibly true. However for 2 years in a row, every single time I see Mathews play it's the same play: A handoff and a run up the gut into a defense stacking the box. Every. Single. Time.
So far this year, the Chargers have run about 40% of the time. When Mathews is in, they run nearly 73% of the time. Last week, they ran on 89% of his snaps. When the defense knows what the play will be, it's amazing he has any room to run at all.
Wow, great stats!!! Thanks for sharing that. Clearly they see him as their runner, the problem is they don't see him as a viable pass protector, which is the other 60% of the time...yikes!
According to PFF, here is how well Mathews has played as a pass blocker the past few seasons:

- 2013: 4 pass blocking snaps, 100% efficiency (0 pressures allowed)

- 2012: 28 pass blocking snaps, 91.1% efficiency (3 pressures allowed, including 1 hurry and 1 sack) [bTW Ronnie Brown's efficiency was just 89.1%]

- 2011: 35 pass blocking snaps, 92.1% efficiency (3 pressures allowed, including 2 sacks and 1 hurry)

I agree that it is very likely that his pass blocking is the main reason he isn't more trusted on passing downs. But IMO the Chargers should still use him to run more routes... he is good at that.

 

BearsFan4Life

Footballguy
I am holding simply as I cannot get anything of value in return ....I also own Miller with Mathews as my RB 3/4 so I am going to prolly trade Miller for Decker so I have a WR to go with Wayne and Hopkins

 

Kenny Powers

Footballguy
Never owned this guy and after last year I certainly didn't think I would this year, but he looked really good in the preseason and is healthy, so I felt like I couldnt pass him up as my RB4 in the 6th round in a league where I can potentially start 4 RBs. I really dont understand why he isnt getting more touches, especially with Rivers receiving options so banged up. That said, Rivers played lights out the first couple weeks which lead to less opportunity for Mathews. I think as the season moves forward, he's going to come back to earth and Mathews will have more touches. I also think SD looks good enough where they shouldnt be in catch up mode many weeks, so that bodes well for Mathews if for any reason, to be consistently flex-worthy or bye filler.

Ironically despite having yet to be in my starting lineup and having feelings of mediocrity on his outlook, he has outproduced 2 of my earlier RBs Spiller and Wilson and is less than a point behind Gore :mellow:

 

GeeYouknit

Footballguy
I love reading these because people post stats about how he is doing pretty well, and I agree, but just because we see that they are showing their hand when Mathews is in and they will probably run the ball doesn't change the fact that he is not living up to what people are hoping. I love his talent, ever since he came out, bought him in the off-season and I am regretting it. He is talented but if the offense doesn't allow him to thrive they are basically a wasted roster spot in my eyes. The only reason I hold is because I would be getting pennies on the premium i spent to get him in the first place.

 

FF Ninja

Footballguy
I love reading these because people post stats about how he is doing pretty well, and I agree, but just because we see that they are showing their hand when Mathews is in and they will probably run the ball doesn't change the fact that he is not living up to what people are hoping. I love his talent, ever since he came out, bought him in the off-season and I am regretting it. He is talented but if the offense doesn't allow him to thrive they are basically a wasted roster spot in my eyes. The only reason I hold is because I would be getting pennies on the premium i spent to get him in the first place.
What are you talking about? His redraft ADP was around RB25 in the offseason which gives a decent gauge for his trade value this year. So far he is RB27 through 3 weeks and he's on pace for 240 carries. If you traded him now, you should be getting pretty equal value for what you paid in the offseason.

And yes, understanding the situation at hand doesn't make up for the fact that he's not producing fantasy numbers right now, but it does give savvy owners the understanding that he's not putting up poor numbers due to lack of talent but simply due to the situation, so if you have him in a dynasty league you should hold for now and hope for him to sign somewhere like Atlanta when he becomes a free agent in a few months.

 

Slapdash

Footballguy
I love reading these because people post stats about how he is doing pretty well, and I agree, but just because we see that they are showing their hand when Mathews is in and they will probably run the ball doesn't change the fact that he is not living up to what people are hoping. I love his talent, ever since he came out, bought him in the off-season and I am regretting it. He is talented but if the offense doesn't allow him to thrive they are basically a wasted roster spot in my eyes. The only reason I hold is because I would be getting pennies on the premium i spent to get him in the first place.
What are you talking about? His redraft ADP was around RB25 in the offseason which gives a decent gauge for his trade value this year. So far he is RB27 through 3 weeks and he's on pace for 240 carries. If you traded him now, you should be getting pretty equal value for what you paid in the offseason.

And yes, understanding the situation at hand doesn't make up for the fact that he's not producing fantasy numbers right now, but it does give savvy owners the understanding that he's not putting up poor numbers due to lack of talent but simply due to the situation, so if you have him in a dynasty league you should hold for now and hope for him to sign somewhere like Atlanta when he becomes a free agent in a few months.
Exactly. It is just frustrating because many expected his shortcoming to be injury or performance, not an affinity for giving the rock to a washed up Ronnie Brown.

 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
I love reading these because people post stats about how he is doing pretty well, and I agree, but just because we see that they are showing their hand when Mathews is in and they will probably run the ball doesn't change the fact that he is not living up to what people are hoping. I love his talent, ever since he came out, bought him in the off-season and I am regretting it. He is talented but if the offense doesn't allow him to thrive they are basically a wasted roster spot in my eyes. The only reason I hold is because I would be getting pennies on the premium i spent to get him in the first place.
What are you talking about? His redraft ADP was around RB25 in the offseason which gives a decent gauge for his trade value this year. So far he is RB27 through 3 weeks and he's on pace for 240 carries. If you traded him now, you should be getting pretty equal value for what you paid in the offseason.

And yes, understanding the situation at hand doesn't make up for the fact that he's not producing fantasy numbers right now, but it does give savvy owners the understanding that he's not putting up poor numbers due to lack of talent but simply due to the situation, so if you have him in a dynasty league you should hold for now and hope for him to sign somewhere like Atlanta when he becomes a free agent in a few months.
His value was only that high in the offseason due to "hope". I am pretty sure at least some of that hope is gone.

And his current status of RB-27 is pretty meaningless compared to his ADP of RB-25. Some of the RBs drafted at or around him were guys who have potential for big games when they get on the field like Joique Bell, Pierce, Tate, Bryce Brown, and a few others. I woudl much rather have a guy who finished at RB35 but has a few nice games when the starter is out than a guy who finishes at RB-27 and starts all 16 games.

I have him in two dynasty leagues, and I am surely looking into dealing him for either a pick or maybe a guy like Steven jackson

 

Beerguzzler

Footballguy
Cut bait. Really nothing more to add. He's not going to be getting better as the year goes on barring Woodhead and Brown both getting hurt.

 

TheGreatSpinks

Footballguy
I drafted him thinking "No way this new coach is as much a moron as Norv. He will let Mathews have 1st and 2nd down and designate Ronnie Brown as an injury backup".

I was wrong.
maybe you were wrong about thinking a coach who did not use him was a moron

when 2 separate regimes both fail to use a player, i start to question the player more than the regimes
Yes, I agree. They see something, and I don't think it's just trust issues.
His work ethic has been questioned, and I've read reports that he goes out too often and gets loaded at bars...

Still, in 2011 he was downright electric. Last year was a disaster. His team was garbage, he rushed back from injury, had a fumble and never got out of the doghouse. His biggest issue was Norv Turner. Similar to what Coughlin is doing to Wilson right now, he's killed Mathews confidence to the point where he's not looking to make a big play, but to not fumble. I think we saw that in Wilson on Sunday.

He needs McCoy to just say screw it and feed him the ball. Tell him fumbles happen and to stop thinking and just play as he did in 11. If they're not capable of doing that, then part ways. If they don't think he can be more than a situational player, move on. I'm sure someone else will take on that reclamation project.

 

RBM

Footballguy
Even before the injury he was very insignificant in this offense. He was the 3rd rb to see the field. He comes in, gets a carry and goes out. Another waste of talent.

 

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