Saints being investigated for putting bounties on players (2 Viewers)

[RUSF18]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--document--anthony-hargrove-was-instructed-to-lie-by-gregg-williams--joe-vitt.html

Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove submitted a signed declaration to the NFL in April detailing how he was instructed to lie to the NFL by current and former Saints assistant coaches Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams in 2010 about the team's bounty program.

The declaration, obtained by Yahoo! Sports on Monday, was provided to the NFL by Hargrove through the NFL Players Association. A source said last week that the NFLPA submitted the declaration in hopes of proving that Hargrove and other Saints players were merely following orders by coaches.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--document--anthony-hargrove-was-instructed-to-lie-by-gregg-williams--joe-vitt.html

Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove submitted a signed declaration to the NFL in April detailing how he was instructed to lie to the NFL by current and former Saints assistant coaches Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams in 2010 about the team's bounty program.The declaration, obtained by Yahoo! Sports on Monday, was provided to the NFL by Hargrove through the NFL Players Association. A source said last week that the NFLPA submitted the declaration in hopes of proving that Hargrove and other Saints players were merely following orders by coaches.

Ooooof.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--document--anthony-hargrove-was-instructed-to-lie-by-gregg-williams--joe-vitt.html

Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove submitted a signed declaration to the NFL in April detailing how he was instructed to lie to the NFL by current and former Saints assistant coaches Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams in 2010 about the team's bounty program.The declaration, obtained by Yahoo! Sports on Monday, was provided to the NFL by Hargrove through the NFL Players Association. A source said last week that the NFLPA submitted the declaration in hopes of proving that Hargrove and other Saints players were merely following orders by coaches.

Ooooof.

Talk about feeding off the weakest sheep: Hargrove has something like 3-4 failed drug tests and is one more from being out the league. Do ya think maybe the NFL leaned on him a little, saying 'gee it's a nice career comeback you have there Anthony would be a shame if something bad happened to it.' This just gets sketchier and sketchier from the NFL's corner.

 

[RUSF18]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--document--anthony-hargrove-was-instructed-to-lie-by-gregg-williams--joe-vitt.html

Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove submitted a signed declaration to the NFL in April detailing how he was instructed to lie to the NFL by current and former Saints assistant coaches Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams in 2010 about the team's bounty program.The declaration, obtained by Yahoo! Sports on Monday, was provided to the NFL by Hargrove through the NFL Players Association. A source said last week that the NFLPA submitted the declaration in hopes of proving that Hargrove and other Saints players were merely following orders by coaches.

Ooooof.

Talk about feeding off the weakest sheep: Hargrove has something like 3-4 failed drug tests and is one more from being out the league. Do ya think maybe the NFL leaned on him a little, saying 'gee it's a nice career comeback you have there Anthony would be a shame if something bad happened to it.' This just gets sketchier and sketchier from the NFL's corner.

Next time try reading the last sentence in the quote box.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I suspect the NLFPA hasn't seen any evidence yet because they don't want to see it.The players who were suspended were all given an opportunity to meet with Goodell to discuss their individual situations before any punishment was decided. It would have been a perfect opportunity for them to find out what evidence there was of their involvement.All four of them turned the meetings down.

Fujita did meet with Goodell (though with Brees as well).

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--document--anthony-hargrove-was-instructed-to-lie-by-gregg-williams--joe-vitt.html

Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove submitted a signed declaration to the NFL in April detailing how he was instructed to lie to the NFL by current and former Saints assistant coaches Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams in 2010 about the team's bounty program.The declaration, obtained by Yahoo! Sports on Monday, was provided to the NFL by Hargrove through the NFL Players Association. A source said last week that the NFLPA submitted the declaration in hopes of proving that Hargrove and other Saints players were merely following orders by coaches.

Ooooof.

Talk about feeding off the weakest sheep: Hargrove has something like 3-4 failed drug tests and is one more from being out the league. Do ya think maybe the NFL leaned on him a little, saying 'gee it's a nice career comeback you have there Anthony would be a shame if something bad happened to it.' This just gets sketchier and sketchier from the NFL's corner.

Next time try reading the last sentence in the quote box.

Thanks, yep, got that.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

Yahoo sports link to Hargrove's declaration

No freaking way that Vitt coaches this team and he'll also get a longer vacation from the NFL.

 

[Gadabout]

Yahoo sports link to Hargrove's declaration

No freaking way that Vitt coaches this team and he'll also get a longer vacation from the NFL.

So the league is now lying. Interesting.

 

[flapgreen]

Keep pushing that lie, Vitt. I guess no one should be surprised at this point.

 

[Wadsworth]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--document--anthony-hargrove-was-instructed-to-lie-by-gregg-williams--joe-vitt.html

Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove submitted a signed declaration to the NFL in April detailing how he was instructed to lie to the NFL by current and former Saints assistant coaches Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams in 2010 about the team's bounty program.The declaration, obtained by Yahoo! Sports on Monday, was provided to the NFL by Hargrove through the NFL Players Association. A source said last week that the NFLPA submitted the declaration in hopes of proving that Hargrove and other Saints players were merely following orders by coaches.

Ooooof.

Talk about feeding off the weakest sheep: Hargrove has something like 3-4 failed drug tests and is one more from being out the league. Do ya think maybe the NFL leaned on him a little, saying 'gee it's a nice career comeback you have there Anthony would be a shame if something bad happened to it.' This just gets sketchier and sketchier from the NFL's corner.

I feel for fans of the Saints in this situation. But the declaration seems to paint the Saints as the people leaning on Hargrove, not the NFL.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--document--anthony-hargrove-was-instructed-to-lie-by-gregg-williams--joe-vitt.html

Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove submitted a signed declaration to the NFL in April detailing how he was instructed to lie to the NFL by current and former Saints assistant coaches Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams in 2010 about the team's bounty program.The declaration, obtained by Yahoo! Sports on Monday, was provided to the NFL by Hargrove through the NFL Players Association. A source said last week that the NFLPA submitted the declaration in hopes of proving that Hargrove and other Saints players were merely following orders by coaches.

Ooooof.

Talk about feeding off the weakest sheep: Hargrove has something like 3-4 failed drug tests and is one more from being out the league. Do ya think maybe the NFL leaned on him a little, saying 'gee it's a nice career comeback you have there Anthony would be a shame if something bad happened to it.' This just gets sketchier and sketchier from the NFL's corner.

I feel for fans of the Saints in this situation. But the declaration seems to paint the Saints as the people leaning on Hargrove, not the NFL.

This is the point I was trying to make:>>>Players point to how the league released a statement saying former Saints lineman Anthony Hargrove "submitted a signed declaration to the league that established not only the existence of the program at the Saints, but also that he knew about and participated in it."Later, Hargrove's actual statement was leaked to the media, and Hargrove himself said the league "grossly mischaracterized" his words. Hargrove maintains he didn't actually confirm the existence of a bounty program but told the NFL Saints coaches instructed him to deny one existed. These are two different things, Saints players say, are an example of the NFL's duplicity.<<<And there's more along those lines in this report:http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19113436/some-bountygate-saints-still-fighting-mad-railroaded-by-nflNice job by Mike Freeman to come back and report the other side of things.

 

[RUSF18]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--document--anthony-hargrove-was-instructed-to-lie-by-gregg-williams--joe-vitt.html

Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove submitted a signed declaration to the NFL in April detailing how he was instructed to lie to the NFL by current and former Saints assistant coaches Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams in 2010 about the team's bounty program.

The declaration, obtained by Yahoo! Sports on Monday, was provided to the NFL by Hargrove through the NFL Players Association. A source said last week that the NFLPA submitted the declaration in hopes of proving that Hargrove and other Saints players were merely following orders by coaches.

Ooooof.

Talk about feeding off the weakest sheep: Hargrove has something like 3-4 failed drug tests and is one more from being out the league. Do ya think maybe the NFL leaned on him a little, saying 'gee it's a nice career comeback you have there Anthony would be a shame if something bad happened to it.' This just gets sketchier and sketchier from the NFL's corner.

I feel for fans of the Saints in this situation. But the declaration seems to paint the Saints as the people leaning on Hargrove, not the NFL.

This is the point I was trying to make:>>>Players point to how the league released a statement saying former Saints lineman Anthony Hargrove "submitted a signed declaration to the league that established not only the existence of the program at the Saints, but also that he knew about and participated in it."

Later, Hargrove's actual statement was leaked to the media, and Hargrove himself said the league "grossly mischaracterized" his words. Hargrove maintains he didn't actually confirm the existence of a bounty program but told the NFL Saints coaches instructed him to deny one existed. These are two different things, Saints players say, are an example of the NFL's duplicity.<<<

And there's more along those lines in this report:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19113436/some-bountygate-saints-still-fighting-mad-railroaded-by-nfl

Nice job by Mike Freeman to come back and report the other side of things.

Wasn't Hargrove's statement given to the NFLPA, to be given to the NFL?edit: It's in the original quote. I bolded it. Has that thought changed?

 

[GregR]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--document--anthony-hargrove-was-instructed-to-lie-by-gregg-williams--joe-vitt.html

Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove submitted a signed declaration to the NFL in April detailing how he was instructed to lie to the NFL by current and former Saints assistant coaches Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams in 2010 about the team's bounty program.The declaration, obtained by Yahoo! Sports on Monday, was provided to the NFL by Hargrove through the NFL Players Association. A source said last week that the NFLPA submitted the declaration in hopes of proving that Hargrove and other Saints players were merely following orders by coaches.

Ooooof.

Talk about feeding off the weakest sheep: Hargrove has something like 3-4 failed drug tests and is one more from being out the league. Do ya think maybe the NFL leaned on him a little, saying 'gee it's a nice career comeback you have there Anthony would be a shame if something bad happened to it.' This just gets sketchier and sketchier from the NFL's corner.

I feel for fans of the Saints in this situation. But the declaration seems to paint the Saints as the people leaning on Hargrove, not the NFL.

This is the point I was trying to make:>>>Players point to how the league released a statement saying former Saints lineman Anthony Hargrove "submitted a signed declaration to the league that established not only the existence of the program at the Saints, but also that he knew about and participated in it."Later, Hargrove's actual statement was leaked to the media, and Hargrove himself said the league "grossly mischaracterized" his words. Hargrove maintains he didn't actually confirm the existence of a bounty program but told the NFL Saints coaches instructed him to deny one existed. These are two different things, Saints players say, are an example of the NFL's duplicity.<<<And there's more along those lines in this report:http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19113436/some-bountygate-saints-still-fighting-mad-railroaded-by-nflNice job by Mike Freeman to come back and report the other side of things.

For lawyers being paid to defend Hargrove (or for those who are doing so pro bono), quibbling over the exact nuances of the wording is appropriate.For those whose concern is more about finding the truth, Hargrove's statement is pretty obvious confirmation that the coaches thought if he told the truth he'd be revealing the existence of a bounty program. That Hargrove avoided specific words that would state explicitly a bounty program existed, doesn't change that. Actually, his attempt furthers that impression... because he used wording that only makes much sense in the context of a person who knows a bounty program existed and doesn't want to directly confirm it. His wording would be highly irregular if coming from a person who didn't believe a bounty program ever existed.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--document--anthony-hargrove-was-instructed-to-lie-by-gregg-williams--joe-vitt.html

Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove submitted a signed declaration to the NFL in April detailing how he was instructed to lie to the NFL by current and former Saints assistant coaches Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams in 2010 about the team's bounty program.

The declaration, obtained by Yahoo! Sports on Monday, was provided to the NFL by Hargrove through the NFL Players Association. A source said last week that the NFLPA submitted the declaration in hopes of proving that Hargrove and other Saints players were merely following orders by coaches.

Ooooof.

Talk about feeding off the weakest sheep: Hargrove has something like 3-4 failed drug tests and is one more from being out the league. Do ya think maybe the NFL leaned on him a little, saying 'gee it's a nice career comeback you have there Anthony would be a shame if something bad happened to it.' This just gets sketchier and sketchier from the NFL's corner.

I feel for fans of the Saints in this situation. But the declaration seems to paint the Saints as the people leaning on Hargrove, not the NFL.

This is the point I was trying to make:>>>Players point to how the league released a statement saying former Saints lineman Anthony Hargrove "submitted a signed declaration to the league that established not only the existence of the program at the Saints, but also that he knew about and participated in it."

Later, Hargrove's actual statement was leaked to the media, and Hargrove himself said the league "grossly mischaracterized" his words. Hargrove maintains he didn't actually confirm the existence of a bounty program but told the NFL Saints coaches instructed him to deny one existed. These are two different things, Saints players say, are an example of the NFL's duplicity.<<<

And there's more along those lines in this report:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19113436/some-bountygate-saints-still-fighting-mad-railroaded-by-nfl

Nice job by Mike Freeman to come back and report the other side of things.

Wasn't Hargrove's statement given to the NFLPA, to be given to the NFL?edit: It's in the original quote. I bolded it. Has that thought changed?

"Wasn't Hargrove's statement given to the NFLPA, to be given to the NFL?"... Right, at the behest of the NFL in the first place. This is called manufacturing evidence and circumstantial evidence.It was established that Hargrove met with NFL investigators before he met with the NFLPA. Hargrove is facing an 8 game penalty AND he's the one offering a statement of pressure from the Saints.... and he's the guy facing a lifetime ban. Fujita and Vilma were team leaders, so was/is Smith.... but Hargrove? Not Harper, not Sharper, not Alex Brown, not McCray (you know, the guy who leveled the vicious (but fair) hit on Warner), not Galette, not Shanle, but Hargrove? Hargrove in 2009 was the LAST guy to take on something like either locker room leadership or a bounty guarantee. He had gotten back in the league on a thread, if anything he would have kept his head down and his blinders on. Hargrove's the only one with a statement like this and he's the only one facing that much pressure. So Hargrove offers up this statement to exculpate himself and the NFL just fires up that he was declaring the existence of the bounty program when he was plainly *not.*

ETA: As a side note Hargrove was named the 2009 winner of the Ed Block Courage Award for the Saints, awarded to those "who are voted by their teammates as role models of inspiration, sportsmanship, and courage."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Block_Courage_Award

 

[RUSF18]

"Wasn't Hargrove's statement given to the NFLPA, to be given to the NFL?"... Right, at the behest of the NFL in the first place. This is called manufacturing evidence and circumstantial evidence.

So you're saying that the NFLPA willfully aided the NFL in manufacturing evidence against one of its own players?Wow.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

"Wasn't Hargrove's statement given to the NFLPA, to be given to the NFL?"... Right, at the behest of the NFL in the first place. This is called manufacturing evidence and circumstantial evidence.

So you're saying that the NFLPA willfully aided the NFL in manufacturing evidence against one of its own players?Wow.

No, I'm saying Hargrove is more than willing to take the out and the NFLPA is all about defending its players as it should be.The NFL is [*possibly*] making the false representation here as to the statement by Hargrove (that it was evidence of the bounty, system (which it is not)), not Hargrove or the NFLPA.ETA: >>>Goodell also said that the NFLPA "expressly told the players not to cooperate in the bounty investigation.<<<http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82944897/article/roger-goodell-says-public-will-see-proof-of-bounties

 

[sho nuff]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--sources--new-orleans-saints-kept-a--ledger--detailing-weekly-earnings-in-bounty-scandal.html

They apparently have a ledger.

 

[fatness]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--sources--new-orleans-saints-kept-a--ledger--detailing-weekly-earnings-in-bounty-scandal.htmlThey apparently have a ledger.

Gregg Williams's handwriting?

 

[PranksterJD]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--sources--new-orleans-saints-kept-a--ledger--detailing-weekly-earnings-in-bounty-scandal.html

They apparently have a ledger.

I admittedly haven't done any kind of due diligence to research this story, but its pretty funny if true. This whole thing is getting laughable.

There can be little doubt that the NFL, which has refused to provide to the NFLPA or to the media evidence of the alleged bounty system in New Orleans, leaked to Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports information regarding a ledger supposedly maintained by the Saints during the 2009 season.

There can now be little doubt that the NFL got its first leak wrong, requiring another leak to fix the first leak.

Cole initially reported that the ledger reveals that three $1,000 payments were made as a result of the Saints’ September 2009 game against the Bills. After PFT pointed out that four Bills were injured during the game and that three play defense, Cole’s report was revised to replace the game against the Bills with the November 8, 2009 game against Panthers.

“A source initially said the three $1,000 awards were given in Buffalo on Sept. 27, 2009, but that source and another source later corrected that report,” Cole writes.

Is it a big deal? Who knows. Cole’s source(s) may have simply misread the ledger.

Regardless, the Associated Press game story mentions only one Panthers player leaving the game due to injury: linebacker Thomas Davis.

Maybe the leak will once again be revised to reflect a game in which there were actually three offensive players who left with injuries.

 

[RUSF18]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--sources--new-orleans-saints-kept-a--ledger--detailing-weekly-earnings-in-bounty-scandal.html

They apparently have a ledger.

I admittedly haven't done any kind of due diligence to research this story, but its pretty funny if true. This whole thing is getting laughable.

There can be little doubt that the NFL, which has refused to provide to the NFLPA or to the media evidence of the alleged bounty system in New Orleans, leaked to Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports information regarding a ledger supposedly maintained by the Saints during the 2009 season.

There can now be little doubt that the NFL got its first leak wrong, requiring another leak to fix the first leak.

Cole initially reported that the ledger reveals that three $1,000 payments were made as a result of the Saints’ September 2009 game against the Bills. After PFT pointed out that four Bills were injured during the game and that three play defense, Cole’s report was revised to replace the game against the Bills with the November 8, 2009 game against Panthers.

“A source initially said the three $1,000 awards were given in Buffalo on Sept. 27, 2009, but that source and another source later corrected that report,” Cole writes.

Is it a big deal? Who knows. Cole’s source(s) may have simply misread the ledger.

Regardless, the Associated Press game story mentions only one Panthers player leaving the game due to injury: linebacker Thomas Davis.

Maybe the leak will once again be revised to reflect a game in which there were actually three offensive players who left with injuries.

The initial story said that the ledger showed payments for items besides "cart offs".

 

[sho nuff]

[Vilma...Eddie Murphy] Wasn't me...[/Vilma...Eddie Murphy]

 

[Tiger Fan]

A very long, but very informative essay written by Sean Pamphilon (guy who filmed the Gregg Williams audio). Lots of interesting things to say about Fujuita and Brees:

http://seanpamphilon.com/2012/05/31/when-you-kill-the-head-the-body-doesnt-die/

Also, here's a link to about an hour of Pamphilon on a local radio show where he takes questions directly from callers. IMO, Pamphilon comes off as pretty genuine and he appears to be covering all of his bases pretty well. http://www.webwiseforradio.com/site_files/244/File/Sean%20Pamphilon%20vs%20Who%20Dats%206-4-12.mp3

 

[Wadsworth]

A very long, but very informative essay written by Sean Pamphilon (guy who filmed the Gregg Williams audio). Lots of interesting things to say about Fujuita and Brees:http://seanpamphilon.com/2012/05/31/when-you-kill-the-head-the-body-doesnt-die/

That is seriously long, but fascinating. Thank you for posting it.

 

[simey]

A very long, but very informative essay written by Sean Pamphilon (guy who filmed the Gregg Williams audio). Lots of interesting things to say about Fujuita and Brees:

http://seanpamphilon.com/2012/05/31/when-you-kill-the-head-the-body-doesnt-die/

Also, here's a link to about an hour of Pamphilon on a local radio show where he takes questions directly from callers. IMO, Pamphilon comes off as pretty genuine and he appears to be covering all of his bases pretty well. http://www.webwiseforradio.com/site_files/244/File/Sean%20Pamphilon%20vs%20Who%20Dats%206-4-12.mp3

That was interesting. Thanks for sharing it, Tiger.