***San Francisco at Los Angeles*** (-3.5) 45.5u Once Upon a Time in Hollywood (1 Viewer)

[CletiusMaximus]

I guess I see a team going "all in" as paying a price rather than winning or losing a trade. Sure you pay that price to win a SB not just be in one but being in one is pretty great. I guess Brady and Manning are recent examples but drop-shipping a QB into a team in the off season is a pretty risky proposition and adding a SB or bust goal to the equation, even more so.

For now, we can agree the trade helped the Rams. 

‘I’m just looking at the big picture. If they lose the SB, then getting Stafford simply cost them Goff & 2 firsts only to be in the same position they were in with Goff, right?

Getting there isn’t ever the goal. Winning it is the goal. The only thing getting there & losing achieves is potentially expanding your fan-base (McVay’s personality should help to off-set that) and losing 2 first round picks.

The Rams went all-in by sacrificing future drafts.  Contrast with the Packers who went all-in by sacrificing future cap space. Both took a shot - the Rams succeeded as did the Bucs last season, but I don't think anyone can deny there is a fair bit of luck involved once you get to the playoffs. My personal view is that the best NFL strategy for success is to build a team that can make the playoffs, because it seems like somewhat of a crap-shoot from there.  I've seen the Packers lose multiple playoff games as home favorites over the past 20 years, whereas their success (in terms of winning a Lombardi) came when they played 3 road games as a wild card. This year we have two #4 seeds in the Superbowl, each of whom got there through a highly improbable series of results. Totally deserved and I'm happy for both, but I think the point stands.

 

[BobbyLayne]

You would have to look at it that way, right?

They traded Goff plus 2-1st Round selections to Detroit. It's going to be a bitter pill for Lions fans when Staff holds up that Lombardi Trophy in about 2 weeks.

I don’t think so. I have never run across a Lions fan who feels that way. I’m sure they exist - there’s never a shortage of miserable bastards - but everyone I know, every discussion board I’m a part of, random Twitter follows, it’s universal. Happy for him, Kelly and the girls.

As I said above, Stafford’s playoff run is very much an indictment of how poorly the Fords have run the franchise for six plus decades. The team is so hopeless, two first ballot Hall of Famers quit in their prime rather than continue the futility.

Honestly, I don’t think anyone who is a long time fan of the Lions is surprised in the least he goes to the Super Bowl his first season out from underneath them. It’s a testament to his talent and their ineptitude.

They got a pretty good haul for him. He got an opportunity to fill out his legacy. Best win-win in sports I can recall.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

The Rams went all-in by sacrificing future drafts.  Contrast with the Packers who went all-in by sacrificing future cap space. Both took a shot - the Rams succeeded as did the Bucs last season, but I don't think anyone can deny there is a fair bit of luck involved once you get to the playoffs. My personal view is that the best NFL strategy for success is to build a team that can make the playoffs, because it seems like somewhat of a crap-shoot from there.  I've seen the Packers lose multiple playoff games as home favorites over the past 20 years, whereas their success (in terms of winning a Lombardi) came when they played 3 road games as a wild card. This year we have two #4 seeds in the Superbowl, each of whom got there through a highly improbable series of results. Totally deserved and I'm happy for both, but I think the point stands.

Absolutely well said. It’s never as easy as 

1. make a trade

2. ???

3. Get fitted for that ring, baby! 

 

[dkp993]

For now, we can agree the trade helped the Rams. 

‘I’m just looking at the big picture. If they lose the SB, then getting Stafford simply cost them Goff & 2 firsts only to be in the same position they were in with Goff, right? (e.g. not winning the super bowl)

Getting there isn’t ever the goal. Winning it is the goal. The only thing getting there & losing achieves is potentially expanding your fan-base (McVay’s personality should help to off-set that) and losing 2 first round picks.

I disagree.  While winning it this year will validate the trade definitively imo it’s more then valid already. Goff would never have gotten us here this year.  The year he did it McVay’s wide zone scheme took the league by storm and we had peak Gurley (which was a monstrously high peak).  The McVay scheme got exposed and Gurley’s knees caught up with him so Goff became the focal point, we saw what happened when that was the case.   

As a life long Ram fan I can tell you regardless of what happens in this SB we are a much better team because of that trade.  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

As a life long Ram fan I can tell you regardless of what happens in this SB we are a much better team because of that trade.  

right now, yes. Maybe next year too, depending on whether OBJ wants to win or wants to get paid more (anyone taking bets on the former should get long odds).

But down the road? The jury’s out. 

Like I’ve said - it was a fair trade. The Rams are better as a result. They’re going to the SB, so that’s obvious.

But IMO to completely justify the deal, we’re talking about years in the future without those draft picks that are TBD. 

My point wasn’t that Goff might have gotten them to a SB, but rather that losing the super bowl isn’t too far off from missing the playoffs altogether. It counts just the same looking back over the annals of time. 

I’m rooting for Stafford, as I always have. Seems like a truly great guy. I’m happy to see him have this success. 

 

[dkp993]

My point wasn’t that Goff might have gotten them to a SB, but rather that losing the super bowl isn’t too far off from missing the playoffs altogether. It counts just the same looking back over the annals of time

Somehow I think the Bengals prior to this year or the Lions would strongly disagree with you here.  Making the playoffs (especially consistently) largely defines a successful franchise vs a joke one.   

And the whole trade away #1 picks narratives are tired at this point imo.   We haven’t had one since Goff and somehow have made 2 SB’s and multiple playoffs.  Picking at the end of the first (like a successful team typically does) doesn’t hold the value the talking points belay.  Bottom of the first round for 2 yrs or the best cornerback in the game heading into his prime, YES please. 2 more back of the first picks for a top tier QB, yes please.  I remake these trades everyday and twice on Sunday.  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Somehow I think the Bengals prior to this year or the Lions would strongly disagree with you here.  Making the playoffs (especially consistently) largely defines a successful franchise vs a joke one.   

And the whole trade away #1 picks narratives are tired at this point imo.   We haven’t had one since Goff and somehow have made 2 SB’s and multiple playoffs.  Picking at the end of the first (like a successful team typically does) doesn’t hold the value the talking points belay.  Bottom of the first round for 2 yrs or the best cornerback in the game heading into his prime, YES please. 2 more back of the first picks for a top tier QB, yes please.  I remake these trades everyday and twice on Sunday.  

At some point the bill will come due though. You can’t keep borrowing from your future and not expect to ever pay a toll. 

Trust me, I know - I’m a dynasty manager. 


as for the 1st part, yes, it feels good to make it to the Super Bowl. I struggle to recall the names of the teams that made it there and lost. I’m pretty sure it’s hard to get the proper lighting on that in the trophy display case as well.

Again, I’m hardly saying it was a bad trade. I agree they improved (and said as much above). I’m only responding to the statement of absolute justification of the deal. And I’m not sure we can go there until we see who those two picks are & how the Rams do both in the super bowl & in the next year or so. 

In a couple years we can certainly revisit this subject to see if it was “absolutely justified”. I get what you’re saying about draft capital - and I largely agree. But we haven’t even seen this super bowl played. It’s premature for absolute justification. 
 

ETA: I don’t think anyone saw the Rams as a joke org before this deal. 

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I'm not sure either team "lost" this deal. Lions went nowhere in Staffords first 12 seasons, might as well cut bait and get what you can before he loses any more value.  Rams went from a 10-6 team that lost in the 2nd round to a team that is favored to win in the Super Bowl. And they look to be in good position next year as well.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I'm not sure either team "lost" this deal. Lions went nowhere in Staffords first 12 seasons, might as well cut bait and get what you can before he loses any more value.  Rams went from a 10-6 team that lost in the 2nd round to a team that is favored to win in the Super Bowl. And they look to be in good position next year as well.

I agree with this. There were no losers here. It was a solid trade. 

 

[belljr]

I agree with this. There were no losers here. It was a solid trade. 

except Goff.......

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

except Goff.......

Well, that’s debatable too. He certainly looked good at times in DET, and he spent an entire year out of the spotlight of a massive media market saying he sucks on a weekly basis. 

Not the same as going to the super bowl, but certainly a less mentally taxing season, and he got paid the same. 

 

[JohnnyU]

I don’t think so. I have never run across a Lions fan who feels that way. I’m sure they exist - there’s never a shortage of miserable bastards - but everyone I know, every discussion board I’m a part of, random Twitter follows, it’s universal. Happy for him, Kelly and the girls.

As I said above, Stafford’s playoff run is very much an indictment of how poorly the Fords have run the franchise for six plus decades. The team is so hopeless, two first ballot Hall of Famers quit in their prime rather than continue the futility.

Honestly, I don’t think anyone who is a long time fan of the Lions is surprised in the least he goes to the Super Bowl his first season out from underneath them. It’s a testament to his talent and their ineptitude.

They got a pretty good haul for him. He got an opportunity to fill out his legacy. Best win-win in sports I can recall.

The Lions new training camp should be in Fordlândia.  That would whip into shape.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Well, that’s debatable too. He certainly looked good at times in DET, and he spent an entire year out of the spotlight of a massive media market saying he sucks on a weekly basis. 

Not the same as going to the super bowl, but certainly a less mentally taxing season, and he got paid the same. 

20 million a year and a hot girlfriend. Not shedding too many tears for Goff.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

20 million a year and a hot girlfriend. Not shedding too many tears for Goff.

S’wut I’m sayin 

ok, I had to Google it, and daaaaaamn. He might actually prefer not going to the Super Bowl since he has that to Come home to.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Ok, very football-related content: here is Goff’s gf: 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CRO5sL_AdJc/?utm_medium=copy_link

Regardless of the outcome of the SB & what we all think of the LAR/DET trade, I think we can all agree Goff is winning. 

 

[Da Guru]

Somehow I think the Bengals prior to this year or the Lions would strongly disagree with you here.  Making the playoffs (especially consistently) largely defines a successful franchise vs a joke one.   

And the whole trade away #1 picks narratives are tired at this point imo.   We haven’t had one since Goff and somehow have made 2 SB’s and multiple playoffs.  Picking at the end of the first (like a successful team typically does) doesn’t hold the value the talking points belay.  Bottom of the first round for 2 yrs or the best cornerback in the game heading into his prime, YES please. 2 more back of the first picks for a top tier QB, yes please.  I remake these trades everyday and twice on Sunday.  

To me there is no doubt Stafford is a better QB than Goff.  I despised Goff early in the year then realized the Lions only had one WR that would even be on another NFL roster and that was a rookie who took some time to find his way.  Stafford has talent all around him. In the second half Goff actually played really good, he does not have the arm of Stafford but he knows where to go with the ball.

A number of things had to happen for the rams to advance.  Rams don`t pick up Beckham and Miller they probably are not in Superbowl. Thank Cleveland.

Rams played what i felt was the worst team in the playoffs round 1, and Murry was horrible.  Rams then played a decimated Bus team.  And a team with Jimmy G who blows.  Stafford is way better than Jimmy G.     The bottom line is though you only play who is in front of you and the Rams prevailed. they got a little help from the dropped INT but that happens.

I am looking forward to some new blood in the Superbowl.    The Young Gun Burrow vs the old Grizzled Vet in Stafford.  Rams have more overall talent, Cinci seems to be a team of destiny. Should be a good game.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

To me there is no doubt Stafford is a better QB than Goff.  I despised Goff early in the year then realized the Lions only had one WR that would even be on another NFL roster and that was a rookie who took some time to find his way.  Stafford has talent all around him. In the second half Goff actually played really good, he does not have the arm of Stafford but he knows where to go with the ball.

A number of things had to happen for the rams to advance.  Rams don`t pick up Beckham and Miller they probably are not in Superbowl. Thank Cleveland.

Rams played what i felt was the worst team in the playoffs round 1, and Murry was horrible.  Rams then played a decimated Bus team.  And a team with Jimmy G who blows.  Stafford is way better than Jimmy G.     The bottom line is though you only play who is in front of you and the Rams prevailed. they got a little help from the dropped INT but that happens.

I am looking forward to some new blood in the Superbowl.    The Young Gun Burrow vs the old Grizzled Vet in Stafford.  Rams have more overall talent, Cinci seems to be a team of destiny. Should be a good game.

 

[dkp993]

Rams played what i felt was the worst team in the playoffs round 1, and Murry was horrible.  Rams then played a decimated Bus team.  And a team with Jimmy G who blows.  Stafford is way better than Jimmy G.     The bottom line is though you only play who is in front of you and the Rams prevailed. they got a little help from the dropped INT but that happens.

You know almost always the teams that go to Super Bowl have criticisms not too different from this. But I also think, and I understand I’m biased, this is a very slanted view.  Arizona was the last undefeated team this year and for a large portion of the year one of the best teams in football.  The Bucs had Tom Brady, the greatest of all time, in one of his best seasons ever. He’s won Super Bowls with less talent than this team had even after being short handed.  The Niners were 9 and 2 over their previous 11 games and had beat three monster teams in a row on the road to get to that point all with Jimmy G. They were as tough and dangerous as any team in the playoffs.  
 

They earned their way in, nothing was gifted or easy.  They deserve to be here.  

 

[Da Guru]

You know almost always the teams that go to Super Bowl have criticisms not too different from this. But I also think, and I understand I’m biased, this is a very slanted view.  Arizona was the last undefeated team this year and for a large portion of the year one of the best teams in football.  The Bucs had Tom Brady, the greatest of all time, in one of his best seasons ever. He’s won Super Bowls with less talent than this team had even after being short handed.  The Niners were 9 and 2 over their previous 11 games and had beat three monster teams in a row on the road to get to that point all with Jimmy G. They were as tough and dangerous as any team in the playoffs.  
 

They earned their way in, nothing was gifted or easy.  They deserve to be here.  

Any team that is in the Superbowl deserves to be there.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I don’t think so. I have never run across a Lions fan who feels that way. I’m sure they exist - there’s never a shortage of miserable bastards - but everyone I know, every discussion board I’m a part of, random Twitter follows, it’s universal. Happy for him, Kelly and the girls.

As I said above, Stafford’s playoff run is very much an indictment of how poorly the Fords have run the franchise for six plus decades. The team is so hopeless, two first ballot Hall of Famers quit in their prime rather than continue the futility.

Honestly, I don’t think anyone who is a long time fan of the Lions is surprised in the least he goes to the Super Bowl his first season out from underneath them. It’s a testament to his talent and their ineptitude.

They got a pretty good haul for him. He got an opportunity to fill out his legacy. Best win-win in sports I can recall.

Well said, I was not in any way trying to rub it in. Have you all even started to use those picks yet? I don't remember if you all used one last year after you took the Tackle from Oregon.

I'll find my way into the Lions' thread, they should be in line for an exciting off season and I'm eager to see what Dan Campbell has up his sleeve next year.  

 

[Stealthycat]

I was wanting CIN to win and LAR too .... so I'm happy with this SB after Tom and Aaron got bounced

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I'm eager to see what Dan Campbell has up his sleeve next year.  

they certainly have some pieces to build around. My biggest question is whether they’ll use their high pick to invest in an eventual replacement for Goff. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

they certainly have some pieces to build around. My biggest question is whether they’ll use their high pick to invest in an eventual replacement for Goff. 

Rumors swirling that Goff is going to be traded as early as this off season and that there are suitors already available. 

-But until they have something better in place, why not stick with Goff? He's not great by any means but he's a little better than i thought he was last year and I wouldn't mind a 2nd season for him under Campbell. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Rumors swirling that Goff is going to be traded as early as this off season and that there are suitors already available. 

-But until they have something better in place, why not stick with Goff? He's not great by any means but he's a little better than i thought he was last year and I wouldn't mind a 2nd season for him under Campbell. 

I agree - I think Goff is better than the QBs in this draft, and also better than the perception of him in LA has been.

I disagree a bit with those who say he couldn’t have gotten them to the Super bowl. He didn’t have as big of an arm as Stafford, but he’s not JimmyG either. More than a game Manager, less than a stud QB. I could probably list 6 teams for whom he’d be an immediate upgrade.

That said, if I’m the lions & I can parlay Goff into multiple players/picks, I do it, because chances are good they’re not winning anything in the window of time they’d have with Goff at the helm, and they are more than 1-2 players from being there. 

Deal Goff, bring in a journeyman for a season, get a high pick in 2023 & take your franchise QB with a lot of holes already plugged.

It’s not sexy, but that’s how I’d do it. 

 

[BobbyLayne]

Have you all even started to use those picks yet? 

CB Ifeatu Melifonwu

Drafted: 3rd round (101st overall)

Missed 9 weeks with an injury. Played 100% of the defensive snaps last 3 weeks.  PFF grade 60.3, SI gave him a C. Long & strong, he’ll be a press corner. 

They’ll get the 31st or 32nd pick in 2022 and LAR 2023 1st rounder.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I agree - I think Goff is better than the QBs in this draft, and also better than the perception of him in LA has been.

I disagree a bit with those who say he couldn’t have gotten them to the Super bowl. He didn’t have as big of an arm as Stafford, but he’s not JimmyG either. More than a game Manager, less than a stud QB. I could probably list 6 teams for whom he’d be an immediate upgrade.

That said, if I’m the lions & I can parlay Goff into multiple players/picks, I do it, because chances are good they’re not winning anything in the window of time they’d have with Goff at the helm, and they are more than 1-2 players from being there. 

Deal Goff, bring in a journeyman for a season, get a high pick in 2023 & take your franchise QB with a lot of holes already plugged.

It’s not sexy, but that’s how I’d do it. 

Tell me about McDaniel, the asst coach from San Fran?  He might be the new Miami Dolphins head coach and I am not doing cartwheels so if you want to share anything you know about him or any of the Niners fans, I'd love to hear about him. I can't get real excited about a guy who as I understand it is their OC which immediately to me means puppet to run Kyle's offense, not sure how he could get a lot of credit there. Niners didn't even score on offense up in Green Bay, very leery of these reports coming in that he's the next guy up here in Miami. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Tell me about McDaniel, the asst coach from San Fran?  He might be the new Miami Dolphins head coach and I am not doing cartwheels so if you want to share anything you know about him or any of the Niners fans, I'd love to hear about him. I can't get real excited about a guy who as I understand it is their OC which immediately to me means puppet to run Kyle's offense, not sure how he could get a lot of credit there. Niners didn't even score on offense up in Green Bay, very leery of these reports coming in that he's the next guy up here in Miami. 

TBH he’s kind of a mystery to me as well.

And I see DeMeco Ryans is also getting interviews after a very short time at his SF gig. 

My only real takeaway on either is that as part of the Shanahan coaching tree, they’re likely very competent people.

does that qualify them to be head coaches? Debatable. 

 

[Mr. Mojo]

Did anyone else think that the Rams getting down by 10 was actually a good thing for them?

They had been awful lately at holding a lead and it just seemed like a comeback was definitely within range and within their skill set - more so than holding a lead and running out the clock. Maybe I'm just overreacting to the last couple games, but I thought that they seemed to pass too often when leading instead of a more grind it out approach.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Rumors swirling that Goff is going to be traded as early as this off season and that there are suitors already available. 

-But until they have something better in place, why not stick with Goff? He's not great by any means but he's a little better than i thought he was last year and I wouldn't mind a 2nd season for him under Campbell. 

Not so sure about those Goff rumors. No slam dunk QBs worthy of a top 2 pick and they have no serious backup. They might draft a QB later, but I'm willing to bet their first pick will be an edge rusher.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Not so sure about those Goff rumors. No slam dunk QBs worthy of a top 2 pick and they have no serious backup. They might draft a QB later, but I'm willing to bet their first pick will be an edge rusher.

IMO they should do that. And also trade Goff. Bring in a journeyman. Address a ton of other needs. Suck for a better QB in 2023.