timschochet
Footballguy
So few wordsSo little responseIf you disagree with my point, please state your reasons.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Scott Walker WI governor vs the Packers & teachers (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter cr8f
- Start date
Eliminating jobs is only a portion of it, but do you think that public sector employees should never lose their jobs?My comment is more for the general Republican idea of slashing fed/state budgets that will come, in part, in the form of eliminating jobs. It's not just this article, where it doesn't apply as much as in others, it's the whole theory of slashing budgets, which includes jobs, while blasting Dems for not creating enough jobs.The quote is "Without these measures thousands of jobs would be lost".. Not that taking these measures will cost thousands of jobs.
Or maybe I'm misreading your comments??
cr8f
Footballguy
I saw and heard nothing that would even hint violence and a need for the National Guard.
Wisconsin - you get what you vote for and I didn't vote for this guy.
Right wing media Media Freak Out Over Union Protests In Wisconsin
After the last election I read a report where they said the unions get out the vote effort is too strong, they wanted to get ri of the unions.
Responding to Wisconsin state workers' protests against Gov. Scott Walker's ® proposed legislation that would strip state workers of their collective bargaining rights, right-wing media have characterized the protests as "riots" and "uprisings" and attacked the protesters as "thugs" who could "get violent."
WI Public Workers Rally Against Proposal That Would Strip Most Of Collective Bargaining Rights. The Wisconsin State Journal reported on February 17:
With a key committee vote out of the way, Republican leaders plan to soon pass a bill that would effectively strip collective bargaining rights from most public workers in Wisconsin, suggesting only modest changes to the proposal introduced by Gov. Scott Walker.
Key GOP lawmakers offered minor adjustments Wednesday night to the legislation, crafted during hours of closed-door meetings throughout the day, but those tweaks don't affect Walker's collective bargaining overhaul -- a sweeping plan that brought thousands of protesters to the state Capitol for three consecutive days of demonstrations.
[...]
Walker and Republicans said they would not alter their plans despite the thousands of protesters who continue to flood the state Capitol. The crowd only got louder Wednesday as some pounded drums, others played bagpipes, and many chanted, "Kill the bill" and, "Recall Walker now!"
Some protesters never left. Hundreds came with sleeping bags or blankets and spent Tuesday night in the Capitol rotunda while hoping to speak at a hearing about the bill. Public testimony stretched from 10 a.m. on Tuesday to about 3 a.m. Wednesday and beyond, with Democratic lawmakers listening to people through the morning. [Wisconsin State Journal, 2/17/11]
Right-Wing Media Label Protests "Riots," Attack Protesters
Beck Characterizes Union Protests As "Riots" And "Uprisings." On the February 16 edition of his radio show, Glenn Beck stated of union protests: "You are about to see this president start embracing the uprisings in this country. You are going to see him embrace the teachers unions and all of the unions that are marching on the streets." Beck later characterized the protests as "riots in the streets." [Premiere Radio Networks' The Glenn Beck Program, 2/16/11]
Beck Cites WI Protests To Claim That "Evil [is] Spreading Around The Globe." On the February 16 edition of his Fox News show, Beck stated that protests in Madison, WI, as well as in the Middle East and Mexico are part of "evil spreading around the globe." [Fox News' Glenn Beck, 2/16/11]
Malkin: Protesters "Stormed" Capitol For Demonstration; Teachers Used Students As "Kiddie Human Shields." In a February 16 post about protests in Wisconsin, Michelle Malkin wrote that the SEIU "and its allies stormed in for a sleepover protest" at the state Capitol building. She later wrote of teachers staging a protest: "Kiddie human shields become kiddie sacrificial lambs." In a later post, Malkin called the protesters "union thugs." [MichelleMalkin.com, 2/16/11, 2/16/11]
Malkin On Fox: Protesters Engaging In "Thuggery." On February 17, Malkin took her attacks on the union protesters to Fox & Friends, stating, "If this brave Republican governor can stand up to the immense amount of power and thuggery, essentially, by these unions, it bodes very well for other states." [Fox News' Fox & Friends, 2/17/11]
FBN's Byrnes: Protests Could "Borderline ... Get Violent." On the February 16 edition of Fox Business' Varney & Co., Tracy Byrnes stated that protests in Wisconsin are "actually, borderline gonna get violent, it sounds like." Byrnes later stated, "I for one hope they lose. I hope they lose. I hope they stick their ground and the unions lose in the end." [Fox Business' Varney & Co., 2/16/11]
Obenshain: Wisconsin Teacher Protests Are "Reminiscent Of Greece." On the February 16 edition of Fox News' Hannity, Republican strategist Kate Obenshain stated: "We see something that's going on, say, in Wisconsin, where they have the rallies for the teachers, where teachers are yanking kids out of the classrooms and calling in sick -- totally lying - which is reminiscent of Greece and England." [Fox News' Hannity, 2/16/11]
RedState: "Leftist Union Bosses Also Know They May Be Losing Their Grip On Taxpayers' Throats And They Are Desperate To Keep It There." A February 17 post on RedState discussed the union protests in Wisconsin, as well as others in Ohio and Indiana, and stated: "As labor activists strategize for 'class war,' Leftist union bosses also know they may be losing their grip on taxpayers' throats and they are desperate to keep it there. They're not going to let go easily either." [RedState.com, 2/17/11]
Wisconsin - you get what you vote for and I didn't vote for this guy.
Right wing media Media Freak Out Over Union Protests In Wisconsin
After the last election I read a report where they said the unions get out the vote effort is too strong, they wanted to get ri of the unions.
Responding to Wisconsin state workers' protests against Gov. Scott Walker's ® proposed legislation that would strip state workers of their collective bargaining rights, right-wing media have characterized the protests as "riots" and "uprisings" and attacked the protesters as "thugs" who could "get violent."
WI Public Workers Rally Against Proposal That Would Strip Most Of Collective Bargaining Rights. The Wisconsin State Journal reported on February 17:
With a key committee vote out of the way, Republican leaders plan to soon pass a bill that would effectively strip collective bargaining rights from most public workers in Wisconsin, suggesting only modest changes to the proposal introduced by Gov. Scott Walker.
Key GOP lawmakers offered minor adjustments Wednesday night to the legislation, crafted during hours of closed-door meetings throughout the day, but those tweaks don't affect Walker's collective bargaining overhaul -- a sweeping plan that brought thousands of protesters to the state Capitol for three consecutive days of demonstrations.
[...]
Walker and Republicans said they would not alter their plans despite the thousands of protesters who continue to flood the state Capitol. The crowd only got louder Wednesday as some pounded drums, others played bagpipes, and many chanted, "Kill the bill" and, "Recall Walker now!"
Some protesters never left. Hundreds came with sleeping bags or blankets and spent Tuesday night in the Capitol rotunda while hoping to speak at a hearing about the bill. Public testimony stretched from 10 a.m. on Tuesday to about 3 a.m. Wednesday and beyond, with Democratic lawmakers listening to people through the morning. [Wisconsin State Journal, 2/17/11]
Right-Wing Media Label Protests "Riots," Attack Protesters
Beck Characterizes Union Protests As "Riots" And "Uprisings." On the February 16 edition of his radio show, Glenn Beck stated of union protests: "You are about to see this president start embracing the uprisings in this country. You are going to see him embrace the teachers unions and all of the unions that are marching on the streets." Beck later characterized the protests as "riots in the streets." [Premiere Radio Networks' The Glenn Beck Program, 2/16/11]
Beck Cites WI Protests To Claim That "Evil [is] Spreading Around The Globe." On the February 16 edition of his Fox News show, Beck stated that protests in Madison, WI, as well as in the Middle East and Mexico are part of "evil spreading around the globe." [Fox News' Glenn Beck, 2/16/11]
Malkin: Protesters "Stormed" Capitol For Demonstration; Teachers Used Students As "Kiddie Human Shields." In a February 16 post about protests in Wisconsin, Michelle Malkin wrote that the SEIU "and its allies stormed in for a sleepover protest" at the state Capitol building. She later wrote of teachers staging a protest: "Kiddie human shields become kiddie sacrificial lambs." In a later post, Malkin called the protesters "union thugs." [MichelleMalkin.com, 2/16/11, 2/16/11]
Malkin On Fox: Protesters Engaging In "Thuggery." On February 17, Malkin took her attacks on the union protesters to Fox & Friends, stating, "If this brave Republican governor can stand up to the immense amount of power and thuggery, essentially, by these unions, it bodes very well for other states." [Fox News' Fox & Friends, 2/17/11]
FBN's Byrnes: Protests Could "Borderline ... Get Violent." On the February 16 edition of Fox Business' Varney & Co., Tracy Byrnes stated that protests in Wisconsin are "actually, borderline gonna get violent, it sounds like." Byrnes later stated, "I for one hope they lose. I hope they lose. I hope they stick their ground and the unions lose in the end." [Fox Business' Varney & Co., 2/16/11]
Obenshain: Wisconsin Teacher Protests Are "Reminiscent Of Greece." On the February 16 edition of Fox News' Hannity, Republican strategist Kate Obenshain stated: "We see something that's going on, say, in Wisconsin, where they have the rallies for the teachers, where teachers are yanking kids out of the classrooms and calling in sick -- totally lying - which is reminiscent of Greece and England." [Fox News' Hannity, 2/16/11]
RedState: "Leftist Union Bosses Also Know They May Be Losing Their Grip On Taxpayers' Throats And They Are Desperate To Keep It There." A February 17 post on RedState discussed the union protests in Wisconsin, as well as others in Ohio and Indiana, and stated: "As labor activists strategize for 'class war,' Leftist union bosses also know they may be losing their grip on taxpayers' throats and they are desperate to keep it there. They're not going to let go easily either." [RedState.com, 2/17/11]
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I don't think you understand this process. When the teachers union is busted and salaries go down for teachers....more people will WANT to get into teaching....so education standards will go up.I don't pretend to have the answer. I understand the position that state employees take up huge portion of state budgets. I am willing to pay more. times are tough and we all need to sacrifice. But i think we need to be careful when we glibly talk about the burden of teacher benefits. I have seen several threads around here talking about the lack of quality teachers and how bad teachers are protected by unions(which i agree with.) I contend that if you start taking away the few perks (monetary) of the job you will have an EVEN harder time recruiting the best and brightest to the field. And when that happens and we fall father behind the rest of the world, i wonder if that is worth saving a little coin.Man in the yellow hat said:I don't think anyone's saying that teachers have 'cush' jobs. It takes the right kind of person to teach. Just like it take the right kind of person to be a great sales person. Or the CEO of a company. I also don't think it's out of line to ask that teacher's pay more of their insurance premium. And it's not out of line to be asked to cover more of their pension. Especially in light of a budget shortfall of 3.6 billion dollars.Someone has to cover that cost. Either everyone's taxes go up, or the state makes cuts. And I'll tell you right now, raising taxes at a time when the private sector has been hatcheting jobs over the last few years is not the way to go. In your opinion, how would you close the budget gap?tuffnutt said:not whining... I love my job. and i have never been one who felt i was undercompensated or underappreciated. I do my job and wouldnt change it. My point is and has always been those who complain thats its a cush job with such great benefits, had the same chance to get into it as I did. It seems to me that if its so good of a job that more would WANT to do it. But thanks for the adviseMr.Pack said:tuffnutt said:No one forced any of those teachers to get into teaching.Take the whining elsewhere.Oh and I was a teacher once. Easiest money I ever made. But I hated it, so i got out.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
It has been stated several times in this thread that this is the main issue in this story, at least for those of us who are not union members or state employees. Most everyone posting in this thread recognize that something has to be done about public employee compensation and benefits. However, even the biggest union critics generally at least acknowledge their right to exist, as well as the rights of employees to bargain collectively. I haven't had time to really look into the issues involved here, but (as noted yesterday) it is somewhat surprising to me that he can simply pass a law that eliminates the unions' ability to bargain on issues other than pay.Its also interesting to see the police and fire unions supporting this effort. I understand that several fire fighters showed up in full gear yesterday at the capitol protest, to the great delight of the crowd. Here in Milwaukee, it is understood (although denied by Walker) that the firefighters and police unions have an under-the-table deal with Walker that he will eliminate their residency requirement. This means they can all flee to the suburbs and support the tax base out there, while we are paying their salaries here in the city. I consider the firefighters and police unions to be guilty of all the evils typically attributed to unions in other areas. Their support for Walker last fall was surprising to me, and was very important to him. A fire-fighter buddy of mine recently took a two week vacation with his family, without actually using a single vacation day. He was able to organize his work schedule, take a few extra shifts, etc. and somehow got a string of 14 days off in a row. At least 2-3 times a year he is home for a week or two (or a month) with a sprained ankle or a banged-up finger. During this time, he is not allowed to go to work and isn't even supposed to do yard work and such around his house, or he will get in trouble with the union. The police union is similarly bad in this city, with a constant flow of outrageous stories of how they protect their members, the most recent being the report last week of a cop who had committed numerous on-the-job crimes but received only a series of slaps on the wrist from the department until the feds intervened (story is here). I think it is hypocritical of Walker to exempt these unions from his legislation, although it is not surprising to those of us who have lived in Milwaukee county during his time as county executive, from 2002-2010. This is classic Walker - lots of tough talk, while he is really just pandering to his base.BTW.. reading what this Bill is doing I can only see one part they could possible have a legitimate argument for:
The rest, including the increase in what they pay for benefits, are absolutely needed!
The point being, this is not at all just about pay, and is not limited to the teachers. The thread title here and OP is misleading in at least three respects: 1) this has nothing to do with the Packers; 2) this is not just about teachers; and 3) the national guard is not going to open the fire hoses on protesting librarians.
Last edited by a moderator:
cr8f
Footballguy
This is from my senator
Statement on Governor Walker’s Assault on Worker Rights
February 11 - I am deeply disturbed that Governor Walker has chosen to treat public employees as the evil empire by attacking collective bargaining. Public employees have not caused the current economic crisis and should not be used as a fall guy. The Governor’s choice to unleash dictatorial power in order to pick a fight with unions defies the character of Wisconsin.
Rather than pick on these workers how about making those who caused this crisis-Bush and his 2 wars put on the deficit, Wall St and tax cuts for the rich pay for it?
Teachers often take a pay cut from the private sector to be teachers so asking an extra 9% hurts.
In this state Walker can also be recalled.
Statement on Governor Walker’s Assault on Worker Rights
February 11 - I am deeply disturbed that Governor Walker has chosen to treat public employees as the evil empire by attacking collective bargaining. Public employees have not caused the current economic crisis and should not be used as a fall guy. The Governor’s choice to unleash dictatorial power in order to pick a fight with unions defies the character of Wisconsin.
Rather than pick on these workers how about making those who caused this crisis-Bush and his 2 wars put on the deficit, Wall St and tax cuts for the rich pay for it?
Teachers often take a pay cut from the private sector to be teachers so asking an extra 9% hurts.
In this state Walker can also be recalled.
Last edited by a moderator:
ericttspikes
Footballguy
Having crappy schools, poor infrastructure and poor public services also will make a state less competitive.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
Yea lets get this State under a Doyle crony again.
snogger
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
Shtaym Syek
Footballguy
Speak for yourself.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
That's the problem with people today, everyone has their head buried in the sand, they still think it's the mid 90's and everything is good.Everyone wants things to stay the same as the 90's........ Don't we all.
Reality sucks
cr8f
Footballguy
A brief history, Is this what they want to go back to?
1963: Congress passes law mandating equal pay for women.
1913: Strike in RI to obtain a minimum wage for textile workers. 3 killed. 240,000 strike.
1919: Union organizer Fannie Sellins gunned down by co. guards in PA. The right to collective bargaining cost lives.
1917: US Supreme Court approves the 8 hour day act. You can thank the unions.
1914: Ford Motor raises basic wage from $2.40 for a 9 hour day to $5 for an 8 hour day.
1909: NY Shirtwaist strike of 20,000 1911: Triangle Shirtwaist Fire kills 147 trapped NY workers, mostly women & girls.
1886: As 16k protest the 10 hour work day in #WI the state militia shoots into the crowd, 7 dead, one a child.
1851: 2 railroad strikers shot dead by NY state militia.
1835: Children in Paterson, NJ silk mills strike for an 11 hour work day, 6 days a week. Yes, children.
1825: Carpenters in Boston strike for a 10-hour work day.
1963: Congress passes law mandating equal pay for women.
1913: Strike in RI to obtain a minimum wage for textile workers. 3 killed. 240,000 strike.
1919: Union organizer Fannie Sellins gunned down by co. guards in PA. The right to collective bargaining cost lives.
1917: US Supreme Court approves the 8 hour day act. You can thank the unions.
1914: Ford Motor raises basic wage from $2.40 for a 9 hour day to $5 for an 8 hour day.
1909: NY Shirtwaist strike of 20,000 1911: Triangle Shirtwaist Fire kills 147 trapped NY workers, mostly women & girls.
1886: As 16k protest the 10 hour work day in #WI the state militia shoots into the crowd, 7 dead, one a child.
1851: 2 railroad strikers shot dead by NY state militia.
1835: Children in Paterson, NJ silk mills strike for an 11 hour work day, 6 days a week. Yes, children.
1825: Carpenters in Boston strike for a 10-hour work day.
Shtaym Syek
Footballguy
And you complain about the conservatives' scare tactics regularly? Get some perspective.
snogger
Footballguy
In case you've been in a cave and missed it, things in the labor market have changed just a bit since 1963..
Thunderlips
Footballguy
If I can't trust the government with my healthcare...why would I trust them to stand up for me at the workplace?In case you've been in a cave and missed it, things in the labor market have changed just a bit since 1963..
Statorama
gangster
Front page top story on Drudge
America is watching, do the right thing and pass the bill.
It's not being mentioned in any of the stories, but a big thing being overlooked is that Wisconsin isn't a "right to work" state. If you take a public sector job, you're in a union and paying union dues whether you like it or not.
America is watching, do the right thing and pass the bill.
It's not being mentioned in any of the stories, but a big thing being overlooked is that Wisconsin isn't a "right to work" state. If you take a public sector job, you're in a union and paying union dues whether you like it or not.
JerseyEagles
Footballguy
I hardly think this will happen; particularly when- based on the 2010 WI election results- the only citizens upset with this move are union members.
Eric Stratton
Footballguy
Eric Stratton
Footballguy
WOW!
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116381289.html
Senate Democrats plan to boycott Thursday vote on Walker's budget plan
Madison — Law enforcement are now searching for Democratic senators boycotting a Senate vote on Gov. Scott Walker's budget-repair plan Thursday in an attempt to bring the lawmakers to the floor to allow Republicans to move forward with action on the bill.
In a press conference just off the Senate floor, Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) said that Democrats were "not showing up for work" and that police were searching for them to bring them to the floor. He said the last time such an action had happened was in the 1990s and said he was not sure how much authority law enforcement officials would have to compel Democrats to show up.
"That's not democracy. That's not what this chamber is about," Fitzgerald said of the boycott to reporters.
Sen. Tim Cullen (D-Janesville) confirmed Thursday that Democrats will boycott the Senate action today on the budget-repair bill in efforts to block a quorum and keep the measure from passing. He said Democrats hope delaying the bill will give more time for union demonstrators who are protesting the bill's cutting of almost all union bargaining rights for public employees.
Because 20 senators of the 33-member house are needed to be present to pass a fiscal bill, the body's 19 Republicans will not be enough to pass the budget repair bill without at least one Democrat present.
"They can't pass this bill if there's not a Democrat in the chamber," Cullen said.
Cullen said the decision was made by other Democrats at a meeting at which he was not present.
Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) this morning entered the offices of Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller (D-Monona) and asked for Miller to telephone him.
Fitzgerald said he hadn't seen a Democratic senator so far Thursday and also questioned whether Democrats are boycotting the proceeding.
A spokesman for Miller could not be immediately reached for comment.
The Senate convened at 11:30, with 17 Republicans but no Democrats present. After a prayer and the pledge of allegiance, action was immediately disrupted by demonstrators in the gallery shouting, "Freedom, democracy, unions."
Senate President Mike Ellis (R-Neenah) made a call of the house to bring the three additional senators needed to vote on the bill to the Senate floor.
If the Democrats show up for the vote, a handful of GOP senators will decide the fate of Walker's bill.
The Senate is meeting amid massive demonstrations that have so packed the Capitol that movement outside the Senate chambers is difficult at best.
Spokesmen for the Republican governor and Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) said they were confident that the GOP lawmakers had the votes they needed to pass the bill without further changes. Walker has said that the proposal's cuts to worker benefits and to decades-old union bargaining laws are needed to help balance the state's gaping budget shortfall in this year and the next two.
Republicans control the Senate 19-14, meaning they can lose only two votes and still pass the bill if all Democrats oppose it. Some Republicans have shown reluctance about the bill, though so far none have said publicly that they will vote against it.
Even after voting for the proposal in the Legislature's budget committee just before midnight Wednesday, Sen. Luther Olsen (R-Ripon) showed his concern about the effects of the proposal on workers.
"I will probably vote for it" on the Senate floor, Olsen said.
On a 12-4 party-line vote Wednesday, the Joint Finance Committee added new civil-service protections for local government employees and kept cuts to public worker benefits. The budget committee began debating the bill at 7:45 p.m. Wednesday, after Republicans spent hours behind closed doors crafting the changes. The Senate and Assembly could now act on it as early as Thursday.
"This will pass in that form," Fitzgerald said.
His brother, Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald (R-Horicon), said he also expected the Legislature to accept the changes the committee adopted and not make any further ones.
Some senators attempted to make significant changes to the bill Wednesday, but it appeared their efforts had failed.
The changes the committee adopted would require all local governments to create civil-service systems similar to the one for the state. It would also allow limited-term employees to keep their benefits. Some limited-term employees have worked for the state for years, and the original version of the bill would have taken away all their health care coverage and retirement benefits.
The debate in the committee was impassioned and at times emotional.
"People have said they're willing to sacrifice. Why are we going after people's rights?" asked Rep. Tamara Grigsby (D-Milwaukee).
But Rep. John Nygren (R-Marinette), whose wife is a teacher, said he believed the bill was needed to ensure schools are run efficiently.
"What about the right of the taxpayer to run a frugal school district?" Nygren said.
The changes did not appease the thousands of teachers and state workers who have filled the Capitol for two days.
They booed loudly as they learned the bill still would take away their union rights as they watched the committee proceedings on televisions mounted in the Capitol Rotunda.
"I think it's disgusting," said John Bausch, a Darlington music teacher in elementary and middle school.
"This is not what Wisconsin is all about. We've had collective bargaining for (50) years and to throw it all out without our say is a disgrace."
More are expected to come to the Capitol after Mary Bell, president of the Wisconsin Education Association Council, urged teachers and other Wisconsin residents to come to Madison on Thursday and Friday. She stopped short of asking teachers to walk off their jobs.
In Milwaukee, Superintendent Gregory E. Thornton said teachers are expected to be at work Thursday and Friday, and failure to do so, without a valid excuse, will result in disciplinary action.
WEAC's effort came as Madison schools closed Wednesday because more than 40% of teachers called in sick so they could lobby legislators. Madison schools will be closed Thursday for the same reason. Other districts also were considering closing.
Walker, who proposed the bill, said he was "disappointed" with the action by the Madison teachers and that he appreciates that other public employees are showing up for work. He said he respects workers' right to demonstrate but that he is "not intimidated into thinking that they're the only voices out there."
In a sign of the national attention the proposal is drawing, U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan has scheduled a telephone call with Walker for Thursday, said Jim Bradshaw, a spokesman for the federal agency. The Associated Press reported Duncan said Wednesday at a Denver conference of teacher unions and school administrators that the move in Wisconsin and other states to strip teachers of bargaining rights worries him.
In an interview with WTMJ-TV (Channel 4), President Barack Obama said public workers have to be prepared to make concessions but that he thought Walker's plan was unduly harsh on unions.
Walker offered the bill to help shore up the state's finances in advance of a budget to be delivered Tuesday that is expected to include major cuts in areas like aid to local schools and governments.
He first wants the budget repair bill passed to help clear up a $137 million budget shortfall for the fiscal year ending June 30 and ease solving a deficit of more than $3 billion over the next two years. The cuts to benefits would save taxpayers nearly $330 million through mid-2013.
Major elements of the budget-repair bill remain in place. It would require most public workers to pay half their pension costs - typically 5.8% of pay for state workers - and at least 12% of their health care costs. It applies to most state and local employees but does not apply to police, firefighters and state troopers, who would continue to bargain for their benefits.
Except for police, firefighters and troopers, raises would be limited to inflation unless a bigger increase was approved in a referendum. The non-law enforcement unions would lose their rights to bargain over anything but wages, would have to hold annual elections to keep their organizations intact and would lose the ability to have union dues deducted from state paychecks.
The most significant change the Joint Finance Committee approved would require local governments that don't have civil-service systems to create an employee grievance system within months. Those local civil-service systems would have to address grievances for employee termination, employee discipline and workplace safety.
The bill also gives Walker's Department of Health Services the power to write rules that would change state laws dealing with medical care for children, parents and childless adults; prescription drug plans for seniors; nursing home care for the elderly; and long-term care for the elderly and disabled outside of nursing homes.
The programs that could see changes under the proposal would include the BadgerCare Plus and BadgerCare Core plans, Family Care and SeniorCare.
Lawmakers planned to modify the bill so that the Walker administration could drop people from BadgerCare Plus because of having too high an income temporarily, but not permanently. Current income eligibility standards would be restored on Jan. 1, 2015, under the changes the committee adopted.
The bill was also amended to allow the Walker administration to sell or lease state-owned heating plants but first require a review of any deals by the Joint Finance Committee.
Separate from the committee's action, individual lawmakers are hoping to make other changes to the bill.
Two GOP sources familiar with internal talks said Sens. Dale Schultz (R-Richland Center) and Van Wanggaard (R-Racine) were backing a plan to put at least some union bargaining rights back into the bill. One source said the plan would make use of devices such as sunset clause to bring back certain bargaining rights in future years.
Schultz acknowledged he was working on alternatives, though he said he couldn't comment on any details. He said he was headed to his home and expected to find both protesters and law enforcement protection there.
"Everything is a work in progress and everything is fluid and there are no lines drawn in the sand," Schultz said. "Obviously, it's a very emotional time for us."
Wanggaard sent out a statement after the budget committee action saying he would vote for the bill as amended by the panel.
"'In a democracy, making law is like making sausage.' I never fully understood that statement until this week," Wanggaard said. "No compromise is perfect, but I am thankful that the bill has been substantially modified to add additional worker protection."
Before the committee met Wednesday, Walker told reporters he still had the votes to pass the proposal without changes.
"We're willing to (make changes), but we're just not going to fundamentally undermine the principle of the proposal, which is to let not only the state but local governments balance their budgets," he said.
The committee debated the bill Wednesday night after holding a 17-hour public hearing on it that ended at 3 a.m. Wednesday. Hundreds of people were still registered to speak when Republicans halted the hearing.
Democratic lawmakers then started an impromptu hearing of their own. They were still taking testimony as of 10 p.m. Wednesday - 36 hours after the official hearing started.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116381289.html
Senate Democrats plan to boycott Thursday vote on Walker's budget plan
Madison — Law enforcement are now searching for Democratic senators boycotting a Senate vote on Gov. Scott Walker's budget-repair plan Thursday in an attempt to bring the lawmakers to the floor to allow Republicans to move forward with action on the bill.
In a press conference just off the Senate floor, Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) said that Democrats were "not showing up for work" and that police were searching for them to bring them to the floor. He said the last time such an action had happened was in the 1990s and said he was not sure how much authority law enforcement officials would have to compel Democrats to show up.
"That's not democracy. That's not what this chamber is about," Fitzgerald said of the boycott to reporters.
Sen. Tim Cullen (D-Janesville) confirmed Thursday that Democrats will boycott the Senate action today on the budget-repair bill in efforts to block a quorum and keep the measure from passing. He said Democrats hope delaying the bill will give more time for union demonstrators who are protesting the bill's cutting of almost all union bargaining rights for public employees.
Because 20 senators of the 33-member house are needed to be present to pass a fiscal bill, the body's 19 Republicans will not be enough to pass the budget repair bill without at least one Democrat present.
"They can't pass this bill if there's not a Democrat in the chamber," Cullen said.
Cullen said the decision was made by other Democrats at a meeting at which he was not present.
Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) this morning entered the offices of Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller (D-Monona) and asked for Miller to telephone him.
Fitzgerald said he hadn't seen a Democratic senator so far Thursday and also questioned whether Democrats are boycotting the proceeding.
A spokesman for Miller could not be immediately reached for comment.
The Senate convened at 11:30, with 17 Republicans but no Democrats present. After a prayer and the pledge of allegiance, action was immediately disrupted by demonstrators in the gallery shouting, "Freedom, democracy, unions."
Senate President Mike Ellis (R-Neenah) made a call of the house to bring the three additional senators needed to vote on the bill to the Senate floor.
If the Democrats show up for the vote, a handful of GOP senators will decide the fate of Walker's bill.
The Senate is meeting amid massive demonstrations that have so packed the Capitol that movement outside the Senate chambers is difficult at best.
Spokesmen for the Republican governor and Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) said they were confident that the GOP lawmakers had the votes they needed to pass the bill without further changes. Walker has said that the proposal's cuts to worker benefits and to decades-old union bargaining laws are needed to help balance the state's gaping budget shortfall in this year and the next two.
Republicans control the Senate 19-14, meaning they can lose only two votes and still pass the bill if all Democrats oppose it. Some Republicans have shown reluctance about the bill, though so far none have said publicly that they will vote against it.
Even after voting for the proposal in the Legislature's budget committee just before midnight Wednesday, Sen. Luther Olsen (R-Ripon) showed his concern about the effects of the proposal on workers.
"I will probably vote for it" on the Senate floor, Olsen said.
On a 12-4 party-line vote Wednesday, the Joint Finance Committee added new civil-service protections for local government employees and kept cuts to public worker benefits. The budget committee began debating the bill at 7:45 p.m. Wednesday, after Republicans spent hours behind closed doors crafting the changes. The Senate and Assembly could now act on it as early as Thursday.
"This will pass in that form," Fitzgerald said.
His brother, Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald (R-Horicon), said he also expected the Legislature to accept the changes the committee adopted and not make any further ones.
Some senators attempted to make significant changes to the bill Wednesday, but it appeared their efforts had failed.
The changes the committee adopted would require all local governments to create civil-service systems similar to the one for the state. It would also allow limited-term employees to keep their benefits. Some limited-term employees have worked for the state for years, and the original version of the bill would have taken away all their health care coverage and retirement benefits.
The debate in the committee was impassioned and at times emotional.
"People have said they're willing to sacrifice. Why are we going after people's rights?" asked Rep. Tamara Grigsby (D-Milwaukee).
But Rep. John Nygren (R-Marinette), whose wife is a teacher, said he believed the bill was needed to ensure schools are run efficiently.
"What about the right of the taxpayer to run a frugal school district?" Nygren said.
The changes did not appease the thousands of teachers and state workers who have filled the Capitol for two days.
They booed loudly as they learned the bill still would take away their union rights as they watched the committee proceedings on televisions mounted in the Capitol Rotunda.
"I think it's disgusting," said John Bausch, a Darlington music teacher in elementary and middle school.
"This is not what Wisconsin is all about. We've had collective bargaining for (50) years and to throw it all out without our say is a disgrace."
More are expected to come to the Capitol after Mary Bell, president of the Wisconsin Education Association Council, urged teachers and other Wisconsin residents to come to Madison on Thursday and Friday. She stopped short of asking teachers to walk off their jobs.
In Milwaukee, Superintendent Gregory E. Thornton said teachers are expected to be at work Thursday and Friday, and failure to do so, without a valid excuse, will result in disciplinary action.
WEAC's effort came as Madison schools closed Wednesday because more than 40% of teachers called in sick so they could lobby legislators. Madison schools will be closed Thursday for the same reason. Other districts also were considering closing.
Walker, who proposed the bill, said he was "disappointed" with the action by the Madison teachers and that he appreciates that other public employees are showing up for work. He said he respects workers' right to demonstrate but that he is "not intimidated into thinking that they're the only voices out there."
In a sign of the national attention the proposal is drawing, U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan has scheduled a telephone call with Walker for Thursday, said Jim Bradshaw, a spokesman for the federal agency. The Associated Press reported Duncan said Wednesday at a Denver conference of teacher unions and school administrators that the move in Wisconsin and other states to strip teachers of bargaining rights worries him.
In an interview with WTMJ-TV (Channel 4), President Barack Obama said public workers have to be prepared to make concessions but that he thought Walker's plan was unduly harsh on unions.
Walker offered the bill to help shore up the state's finances in advance of a budget to be delivered Tuesday that is expected to include major cuts in areas like aid to local schools and governments.
He first wants the budget repair bill passed to help clear up a $137 million budget shortfall for the fiscal year ending June 30 and ease solving a deficit of more than $3 billion over the next two years. The cuts to benefits would save taxpayers nearly $330 million through mid-2013.
Major elements of the budget-repair bill remain in place. It would require most public workers to pay half their pension costs - typically 5.8% of pay for state workers - and at least 12% of their health care costs. It applies to most state and local employees but does not apply to police, firefighters and state troopers, who would continue to bargain for their benefits.
Except for police, firefighters and troopers, raises would be limited to inflation unless a bigger increase was approved in a referendum. The non-law enforcement unions would lose their rights to bargain over anything but wages, would have to hold annual elections to keep their organizations intact and would lose the ability to have union dues deducted from state paychecks.
The most significant change the Joint Finance Committee approved would require local governments that don't have civil-service systems to create an employee grievance system within months. Those local civil-service systems would have to address grievances for employee termination, employee discipline and workplace safety.
The bill also gives Walker's Department of Health Services the power to write rules that would change state laws dealing with medical care for children, parents and childless adults; prescription drug plans for seniors; nursing home care for the elderly; and long-term care for the elderly and disabled outside of nursing homes.
The programs that could see changes under the proposal would include the BadgerCare Plus and BadgerCare Core plans, Family Care and SeniorCare.
Lawmakers planned to modify the bill so that the Walker administration could drop people from BadgerCare Plus because of having too high an income temporarily, but not permanently. Current income eligibility standards would be restored on Jan. 1, 2015, under the changes the committee adopted.
The bill was also amended to allow the Walker administration to sell or lease state-owned heating plants but first require a review of any deals by the Joint Finance Committee.
Separate from the committee's action, individual lawmakers are hoping to make other changes to the bill.
Two GOP sources familiar with internal talks said Sens. Dale Schultz (R-Richland Center) and Van Wanggaard (R-Racine) were backing a plan to put at least some union bargaining rights back into the bill. One source said the plan would make use of devices such as sunset clause to bring back certain bargaining rights in future years.
Schultz acknowledged he was working on alternatives, though he said he couldn't comment on any details. He said he was headed to his home and expected to find both protesters and law enforcement protection there.
"Everything is a work in progress and everything is fluid and there are no lines drawn in the sand," Schultz said. "Obviously, it's a very emotional time for us."
Wanggaard sent out a statement after the budget committee action saying he would vote for the bill as amended by the panel.
"'In a democracy, making law is like making sausage.' I never fully understood that statement until this week," Wanggaard said. "No compromise is perfect, but I am thankful that the bill has been substantially modified to add additional worker protection."
Before the committee met Wednesday, Walker told reporters he still had the votes to pass the proposal without changes.
"We're willing to (make changes), but we're just not going to fundamentally undermine the principle of the proposal, which is to let not only the state but local governments balance their budgets," he said.
The committee debated the bill Wednesday night after holding a 17-hour public hearing on it that ended at 3 a.m. Wednesday. Hundreds of people were still registered to speak when Republicans halted the hearing.
Democratic lawmakers then started an impromptu hearing of their own. They were still taking testimony as of 10 p.m. Wednesday - 36 hours after the official hearing started.
snogger
Footballguy
When the union came here trying to get the district to join, my wife was 
. The Vote did pass at first by a narrow margin, but never went into affect as they stopped the process after thoroughly examining what they were getting themselves into.She works Part-time at the School and would have had to pay Union dues, without receiving any vote or support.
No choice, if the Union is there, even if you are Part-time and not represented by the Union you still have to pay dues.
THAT is a joke and one of many things that need to change.
Statorama
gangster
Democratic Wisconsin State Senators refuse to come to work
You can't make this stuff up. Wow, talk about bought and paid for
You can't make this stuff up. Wow, talk about bought and paid for
You should look before using copy and paste.
HellToupee
Footballguy
I'm in "management" & so is my wife and we are squarely backing the union here.
for all you rubes demonizing the unions just wait until it trickles down to you
for all you rubes demonizing the unions just wait until it trickles down to you
Statorama
gangster
Yeah, but he didn't have the cool "bought and paid for" line
snogger
Footballguy
What trickles down to whom
Never been part of a Union, and never expected anyone else to negotiate my salary/Benefits for me.Seniority means Crap in my world. You either do your job, and do it well, or you are shown the door 
I'm sure you use the same lines when talking about how Republicans use similar cowardly methods to deny and up-or-down votes in the US Senate, right?Yeah, but he didn't have the cool "bought and paid for" line
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
And this seems to be a form of a usual refrain here that public employee unions and their supporters go to like it means anything. Newsflash - it's already trickled down and continues to do so. Unemployment is in the double digits for taxpayers, but their taxes and the costs of their government keep going up to pay for public union employees.Hopefully all national attention will go to this governor now and you guys can leave Chris Christie and us alone.
Eric Stratton
Footballguy
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
I've been in Unions before. Two of them took down the companies, as their demands forced both companies to close down and move. The other one was the Teachers Union. I always hated being in them.Unions used to have a place in this country, now all they do is take your money and protect bad workers.
ODoyleRules
Footballguy
Dumb question: so if the bigger issue is the reduction/elimination of collective bargaining and not the increase in contribution to pension and health care, then why don't they delineate that in the bill to have 2 separate issues to debate? Or would people still piss and moan if you change anything in their compensation?
hooter311
Footballguy
What trickles down to whom
Statorama
gangster
Walker is new to the job, and didn't put a ripcord in there for Democratic lawmakers.If Walker would have put something really outrageous in there (that he didn't even necessarily want to pass), Democratic lawmakers could have argued against that and "had it removed". The bill looks "better" and "more agreeable", Walker gets everything he really wants, and the Democratic legislators look like they slayed a lion.Walker didn't present this with a win/win scenario, something he'll learn in the years ahead as he becomes more comfortable being Governor.
Johnnymac
Footballguy
Oh really? What country do you live in?What trickles down to whom
Seniority means Crap in my world. You either do your job, and do it well, or you are shown the door
Yeah, and the wages of the poor and middle classes have been largely stagnant for the last 30 years. Coincidence?In case you've been in a cave and missed it, things in the labor market have changed just a bit since 1963..
ODoyleRules
Footballguy
Seems plausible and impractical at the same time. Nice work.Are the two issues interlinked though I guess is the part I don't understand. In order to raise pension and h' care contributions, is it necessary to change the collective bargaining terms in order to achieve this?
Last edited by a moderator:
cr8f
Footballguy
Thanks to union busting and sending jobs overseas. You're not getting shot anymore though.Yeah, and the wages of the poor and middle classes have been largely stagnant for the last 30 years. Coincidence?In case you've been in a cave and missed it, things in the labor market have changed just a bit since 1963..
There has been a dramatic development in Wisconsin. All 14 Democrats in the state Senate have left the Capitol building, thereby denying a quorum and preventing a vote on the Republican plan to cut salaries, health insurance, pensions and bargaining rights for state employees.
This will probably be settled in the courts.
I don't think you can legislate rights away without a fight.
HellToupee
Footballguy
this is all oart of trying to kill the middle class . They play the private sector worker bee against the public sector .
"There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning." - Warren Buffett
Darrinll40
Footballguy
From what I read;
Also if Walker's plan goes through unions will not be able to charge dues, so the employees are saving money that way.
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/gov...1cc4c03286.htmlIt does not seem all that unreasonable. It doesn't say how much they pay now for insurance but I bet it isn't much. In the Florida county where I live, school board employees pay about 12 dollars a month for damn good insurance.
Also if Walker's plan goes through unions will not be able to charge dues, so the employees are saving money that way.
ODoyleRules
Footballguy
Thanks.
I tried looking for something like this and came up empty.
This also helps explain why he's linking the two. We're in for a lot of fun if each state gets this kind of reaction when they try to balance the budgets.
snogger
Footballguy
So whet has the union been doing then??Yeah, and the wages of the poor and middle classes have been largely stagnant for the last 30 years. Coincidence?In case you've been in a cave and missed it, things in the labor market have changed just a bit since 1963..
Schlzm
Footballguy
Taking money while complaining about it the entire time?SchlzmSo whet has the union been doing then??Yeah, and the wages of the poor and middle classes have been largely stagnant for the last 30 years. Coincidence?In case you've been in a cave and missed it, things in the labor market have changed just a bit since 1963..
Sharply declining in membership as labor laws are rarely enforced and it is harder to unionize.So whet has the union been doing then??Yeah, and the wages of the poor and middle classes have been largely stagnant for the last 30 years. Coincidence?In case you've been in a cave and missed it, things in the labor market have changed just a bit since 1963..
Darrinll40
Footballguy
An opinion guy from Milwaukee.Thanks.This also helps explain why he's linking the two.
We're in for a lot of fun if each state gets this kind of reaction when they try to balance the budgets.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/116355379.html
ETA: I got most of the links from Drudge. drudgereport.com
His headline is kind of funny, at least to me.
DEMOCRATS FLEE WISC CAPITOL all big and red.
Last edited by a moderator:
Rich Conway
Footballguy
So let me see if I have this straight. It's bad for companies to engage in "union busting" (a method to lower labor costs), but it's also bad to ship jobs overseas (a method to lower labor costs). If a company needs to lower its labor costs in order to compete globally, what is the official cr8f approved method?
If Republicans did this, you'd be the first one in here posting a thread complaining about Republican tactics.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
From the article:
Half of these people don't even know what the hell they are protesting.
Darrinll40
Footballguy
I can't get it at work, but this is supposed to be a video stream to watch the protest.
http://www.wiseye.org/Home/AirVideoStream.aspx
http://www.wiseye.org/Home/AirVideoStream.aspx
cr8f
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
nice photo
Similar threads
