Sell High: Calvin Johnson (1 Viewer)

[Maven]

With Duante Culpepper now as the starting QB for the Lions, should Calvin Johnson owners expect better or worse numbers from here on out? Calvin has put up some ridiculous numbers these past 4 weeks averaging 97 yards, 18 rec and 4 tds. With 688yds and 6 tds, he currently is on pace to shatter last years numbers with 1400+ yds and 12tds.

Lets first lay out the facts:

1. The last time Culpepper started a game was Nov. 25 2007.

2. Has bad knees (major arthroscopic knee surgery in 2005 and surgery to remove scar tissue in 2006)

3. Not in game shape

4. Marinelli and Lions are horrible evaluators of talent (you trust their judgment?)

5. Lions have given up 27 sacks (5th in the league)

6. Their o-line sucks (strong correlation to two of their QBs on IR)

7. Will need to learn playbook

8. Will need to get timing down with receivers (takes time)

9. Culpepper didn't play well in Miami

10. Oakland and Miami didn't want to retain him (Bottom of the barrel teams don't want him?).

DET Remaining Schedule ...........(pass rank)

10-vs Jacksonville ...................(21)

11-AT Carolina ........................(11)

12-vs Tampa Bay .....................(6)

13-vs Tennessee ......................(12)

14-vs Minnesota .......................(23)

15-AT indianapolis ....................(3)

16-vs New Orleans ....................(25)

17-AT Green Bay ......................(5)

3 out of the remaining 8 remaining games are against top 10 pass defenses.

I can go on and on...

Daunte Supporters may say...

1. Daunte has not had a WR like Calvin since Moss.

This is true. I'm not doubting that. However, this will only HURT Calvin's value in the short term. Due to the adjustment period of getting into game shape and getting his timing down, there will be a huge dip in his production.

2. If Dan can Daunte can..

Theres this belief that Dan Orlovsky was one of the worst QBs in the league. In Dan's short 5 game stretch, he out played Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Cutler and others (Check out the subscriber content "Whos Hot?"). In Miami and Oak Daunte put up decent numbers. I think in these finial weeks Daunte can put up decent numbers, but not decent enough to continue Calvins pace.

Conclusion

Culpepper is more of a long term fix than short term. To expect Calvin to continue on his 1400yd 12td pace is far fetched. Feed off another owners fascination with Culpepper and get yourself a WR of equal talent in a better situation.

 

[Buffaloes]

The last time Daunte had a WR of this caliber, he was a pretty good QB. If Calvin can get it done with a guy named Orlovsky, I think he'll be fine with Culpepper.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

Going forward which wide receivers would you prefer to have over Calvin Johnson?

 

[beavers]

With Duante Culpepper now as the starting QB for the Lions, should Calvin Johnson owners expect better or worse numbers from here on out? Calvin has put up some ridiculous numbers these past 4 weeks averaging 97 yards, 18 rec and 4 tds.

Lets first lay out the facts:

1. The last time Culpepper started a game was Nov. 25 2007.

2. Has bad knees (major arthroscopic knee surgery in 2005 and surgery to remove scar tissue in 2006)

3. Not in game shape

4. Marinelli and Lions are horrible evaluators of talent (you trust their judgment?)

5. Lions have given up 27 sacks (5th in the league)

6. Their o-line sucks

7. Will need to learn playbook

8. Will need to get in sync with receivers (takes time)

9. Culpepper didn't play well in Miami

10. Oakland and Miami didn't want to retain him (Bottom of the barrel teams don't want him?).

DET Remaining Schedule ...........(pass rank)

10-vs Jacksonville ...................(21)

11-AT Carolina ........................(11)

12-vs Tampa Bay .....................(6)

13-vs Tennessee ......................(12)

14-vs Minnesota .......................(23)

15-AT indianapolis ....................(3)

16-vs New Orleans ....................(25)

17-AT Green Bay ......................(5)

3 out of the remaining 8 remaining games are against top 10 pass defenses.

I can go on and on...

Conclusion

The writing is on the wall. I think Calvin owners should be proactive and deal Calvin now while his value is sky high. To even think he will continue his production is ridiculous. Sell now while you still can! You can definitely get top a level WR in a better situation to replace him.

I think I heard this before - when Kitna went down. The fact is... Detroit will always be playing from behind. It doesn't matter who the QB is, Calvin will get his. I haven't sold yet and don't plan on selling anytime soon. (although you do make a good argument).

 

[BobbyLayne]

By inference then, going the other direction, from Culpepper to Orlovsky would be a step up.

I think I'll dance with the one who brought me here.

 

[Maven]

The last time Daunte had a WR of this caliber, he was a pretty good QB. If Calvin can get it done with a guy named Orlovsky, I think he'll be fine with Culpepper.

Dan Orlovsky has been with the team for two years now. He's attended OTAs, training camp, has learned the playbook and has been in practice throwing and getting in sync with WRs. He knows his WRs tendencies, he knows what his coaches expect and has just had the experience to do a decent job as QB this year.There are only a few remaining games left. How many games will it take for him to adjust? How long will it take him to learn the playbook? How long will it take him to get in game shape. SHORT TERM this couldnt be worse for Calvin.... LONG TERM...sleeper QB next year.

 

[Buffaloes]

The last time Daunte had a WR of this caliber, he was a pretty good QB. If Calvin can get it done with a guy named Orlovsky, I think he'll be fine with Culpepper.

Dan Orlovsky has been with the team for two years now. He's attended OTAs, training camp, has learned the playbook and has been in practice throwing and getting in sync with WRs. He knows his WRs tendencies, he knows what his coaches expect and has just had the experience to do a decent job as QB this year.There are only a few remaining games left. How many games will it take for him to adjust? How long will it take him to learn the playbook? How long will it take him to get in game shape. SHORT TERM this couldnt be worse for Calvin.... LONG TERM...sleeper QB next year.

Compelling arguments but I see Calvin as one of those WR freaks where you can just throw it up and let him get it. I'm not worried about it.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Compelling arguments but I see Calvin as one of those WR freaks where you can just throw it up and let him get it. I'm not worried about it.

:X

 

[Maven]

Going forward which wide receivers would you prefer to have over Calvin Johnson?

I'd deal Calvin straight up for:Terrell OwensSteve SmithBrandon MarshallRoddy WhiteGreg JenningsAndre JohnsonLarry FitzgeraldAnquan Boldin

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

I don't think Calvin has had a true "sell high" point all season because other owners don't trust him to continue putting up points. So although he's the kind of guy (like Bowe etc.) who can put up points as long as the QB is physically capable of lobbing the ball in his direction, I couldn't get good value for Calvin if I wanted to.

 

[omally]

Compelling arguments but I see Calvin as one of those WR freaks where you can just throw it up and let him get it. I'm not worried about it.

Unfortunately just because a WR is a freak at going up and getting balls, it doesn't mean any quarterback can just throw it up and they will be able to get it. An example is David Carr destroying Steve Smith's value last year.

 

[Maven]

You might even be able to compare this situation to Brett Favre's crash course of the Jets playbook. Even after Favre's ridiculous year last year, he's struggled this year. Miscommunication on routes, ints, botched snaps, ...

Now Daunte is suppose to come in as the savior and continue Calvin's production seamlessly? The NFL is just not that easy IMO.

Just weigh the Pros and Cons of this situation ... educate yourself on the facts and make a smart decision.

If youre in a dynasty league things may be a little different...

 

[TheWick]

I don't think it hurts him much. He had 18 targets last week. He IS their offense they will keep forcing it to him and he'll come up with about half of whats thrown to him no matter who it is.

 

[Buffaloes]

I don't think it hurts him much. He had 18 targets last week. He IS their offense they will keep forcing it to him and he'll come up with about half of whats thrown to him no matter who it is.

Add that to the fact that Detroit has a terrible defense that almost forces the offense into passing situations on a weekly basis and I think that Calvin will be all right. This does make me wonder why they wouldn't just go with Stanton to see what he has....but then again these are the Lions we are talking about.

 

[kerpow]

Going forward which wide receivers would you prefer to have over Calvin Johnson?

I'd deal Calvin straight up for:

Terrell Owens Steve Smith Brandon Marshall Roddy White Greg Jennings Andre Johnson Sage coming in, confidence issues?Larry Fitzgerald Anquan Boldin Other big name would be Wayne, Burress, Moss, Edwards, Colston etc.

 

[Loopdog]

Calvin is a special player. I think its become apparent this season and will continue to be in the years ahead, regardless of who is playing QB for the Lions. I still find it SO hard to believe that they are going to play Culpepper over Stanton this week, i just cannot see how an NFL team would do something like that. But again, these are the Lions we are talking about. Still, Calvin has the ability to be the #1 WR in the game hands down, and Culpepper will know where he is at all times, I can assure you of that.

 

[BobbyLayne]

From Killer's mLive column today:

The Lions believe Culpepper can adapt quickly to Detroit's offensive scheme. It's the same three-digit passing system the Minnesota Vikings used when Culpepper spent seven years there. The terminology will be a little different than what Culpepper is used to and that's going to be the strain in learning the Lions playbook. However, the routes, protections and concepts are basically the same so the learning curve should be reduced.

 

[FantasyTrader]

Compelling arguments but I see Calvin as one of those WR freaks where you can just throw it up and let him get it. I'm not worried about it.

Unfortunately just because a WR is a freak at going up and getting balls, it doesn't mean any quarterback can just throw it up and they will be able to get it. An example is David Carr destroying Steve Smith's value last year.

I disagree. Steve Smith isn't a freak at outleaping everyone else on the field. His strength is YAC and straight line speed. Take a look at Calvin's TD catch this weekend. Not a great throw at all. His displayed great body control.

 

[BigJim®]

DET Remaining Schedule ...........(pass rank)10-vs Jacksonville ...................(21)11-AT Carolina ........................(11)12-vs Tampa Bay .....................(6)13-vs Tennessee ......................(12)14-vs Minnesota .......................(23)15-AT indianapolis ....................(3)16-vs New Orleans ....................(25)17-AT Green Bay ......................(5)3 out of the remaining 8 remaining games are against top 10 pass defenses.I can go on and on...

Meh, I understand these numbers but I'm not reading too much into these particular "top 10 defenses" other than Tampa - which I agree is an all-around great D and a match-up to avoid like the plague. I also think Tennessee will be a bad match-up for Daunte because that is a very solid all around defense. IMHO, Indianapolis and Green Bay have been so pathetic against the run that opponents just don't choose to pass much against them. Maybe Detroit will take the same approach but OTOH particularly against those teams I think Detroit should remain a weekly candidate for garbage passing while they try to make up for 21 point deficits. If a guy like Orlovsky can pass for 225-300 benefitting from numerous garbage offensive series against prevent defenses, I see no reason Daunte can't do the same. Without question he has proven himself adept to throw the long ball (> Orlovsky). Culpepper has never used common QB tools such as pump fakes and looking off defenders like the great NFL QBs do, and has hot/cold turnover streaks, but he has had generally good completion % ranging from 60%-70%. Also, he never had a weapon like Calvin in Miami or Oakland [aside from still obviously being hobbled while with those teams]. I actually love Culpepper in this situation with Calvin. I'd call Calvin a hold and Culpepper a buy.

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

Compelling arguments but I see Calvin as one of those WR freaks where you can just throw it up and let him get it. I'm not worried about it.

Unfortunately just because a WR is a freak at going up and getting balls, it doesn't mean any quarterback can just throw it up and they will be able to get it. An example is David Carr destroying Steve Smith's value last year.

Steve Smith does not fit the mold of a throw it up and let him go get it. Smith needs accurate passes as he's not big enough to just beat you in the jump ball.Detroit seems hell bent on making sure Calvin is in the game I do not see that changing.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Going forward which wide receivers would you prefer to have over Calvin Johnson?

I'd deal Calvin straight up for:Terrell OwensSteve SmithBrandon MarshallRoddy WhiteGreg JenningsAndre JohnsonLarry FitzgeraldAnquan Boldin

Didn't we play this game before? I think it was called "I'd deal Andre Johnson straight up for:"You might be overreacting just a tad here. Calvin will be fine.

 

[red stripe]

I don't think it hurts him much. He had 18 targets last week. He IS their offense they will keep forcing it to him and he'll come up with about half of whats thrown to him no matter who it is.

Clearly Colletto now understands that Calvin is the key to this offense and last week you could tell they were committed to running it through him. Plus the offense has shown signs of life recently. He's a freak and still a top 10 WR imo.

 

[DawgPoundNJ]

I don't trust Orlovsky and Stanton or the coaching staff so I traded Calvin away last week (before the Culpepper signing) for Reggie Wayne straight up.

I don't regret it either, Wayne is a proven commodity with a nice schedule coming up. Who knows when we'll start seeing the 31-0 or 42-3 games in Detroit.

 

[Loopdog]

Just an athletic comment. Did anyone catch the last play of the game on Sunday? If you haven't check it out if you can. Calvin doesn't catch the hail mary, but he takes off from like the 5 yard line and ends up in the middle of the endzone, sick leaping ability there.

 

[David Yudkin]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

 

[Buffaloes]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

Problem is most of those guys are out of the league and the others aren't throwing passes to Calvin. I don't think anyone in this thread is debating that Culpepper should be rostered.

 

[David Yudkin]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

Problem is most of those guys are out of the league and the others aren't throwing passes to Calvin. I don't think anyone in this thread is debating that Culpepper should be rostered.

I don't think anyone is debating that Megatron is talented either, but the variable has to be Culpepper. There are reasons why 32 teams avoided him like the plague (outlined in the OP).People have said the same thing about Cassel and Moss. Just throw him the ball and Moss' numbers will be fine. Hasn't exactly happened that way.I don't think that Calvin's numbers are going to fall off a cliff, but I suspect for a couple of weeks he may have a problem.

 

[BigJim®]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

Ok, you take Trent Green and I'll take Daunte for 2008 FF points... sig bet?

 

[malice]

I've been trying to sell Megatron for over a month now- nobody's buying because the Lions are still the Lions. The biggest downside that I see is that typically when the offense goes through one guy, he's not likely to be healthy when you need him most (playoffs). I'd rather have any of the forementioned WRs simply for the fact that they aren't attracting as much physical pressure and have much more to play for down the stretch.

 

[joffer]

i honestly have no idea. i'll never say it couldn't get any worse, because it always can. on the other hand, Culpepper might just try to force the ball to him 20 times a game.

i think a lot depends on how mobile Culpepper is these days.

 

[Kuz]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

Problem is most of those guys are out of the league and the others aren't throwing passes to Calvin. I don't think anyone in this thread is debating that Culpepper should be rostered.

I don't think anyone is debating that Megatron is talented either, but the variable has to be Culpepper. There are reasons why 32 teams avoided him like the plague (outlined in the OP).People have said the same thing about Cassel and Moss. Just throw him the ball and Moss' numbers will be fine. Hasn't exactly happened that way.

I don't think that Calvin's numbers are going to fall off a cliff, but I suspect for a couple of weeks he may have a problem.

Not sure I like this analogy. On Sunday night Moss didn't have one pass thrown to him in the 1st half.. so obviously they aren't foce feeing the ball to him like they seem to be doing in Detroit with CJ.. NE is still a good team & don't have to foce it to Moss. Detroit is brutal & seems intent to chuck it to CJ on a consistent basis. Sure he'll have some stinkers like any WR but I still think he's going to be fine with whomever his QB..

 

[Michael Brown]

1. The last time Culpepper started a game was Nov. 25 2007.

Approximately one year ago. Which is precisely how long it'll be before Tom Brady starts another game. by the time he plays Not saying Culpepper is Brady, but this is not a reason to avoid him.

5. Lions have given up 27 sacks (5th in the league)

6. Their o-line sucks

These have been true with Kitna and Orlovsky as well. And yet Calvin has thrived despite those already being truths. Bringing in Culpepper isn't changing either of those two facets one way or the other.

4. Marinelli and Lions are horrible evaluators of talent (you trust their judgment?)

10. Oakland and Miami didn't want to retain him (Bottom of the barrel teams don't want him?).

So we shouldn't trust Detroit's talent evaluators, but we should trust Oakland's?

3 out of the remaining 8 remaining games are against top 10 pass defenses.

Which means 5 of the remaining 8 games are against non-top 10 defenses (with three of those games against teams ranked 20th or worse).

 

[cmv5]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

Problem is most of those guys are out of the league and the others aren't throwing passes to Calvin. I don't think anyone in this thread is debating that Culpepper should be rostered.

I don't think anyone is debating that Megatron is talented either, but the variable has to be Culpepper. There are reasons why 32 teams avoided him like the plague (outlined in the OP).People have said the same thing about Cassel and Moss. Just throw him the ball and Moss' numbers will be fine. Hasn't exactly happened that way.I don't think that Calvin's numbers are going to fall off a cliff, but I suspect for a couple of weeks he may have a problem.

I think comparing Culpepper and Cassel is apples and oranges. Patriots still have the ability to win a game by relying on several different players. For the most part Cassel is used as a game manager. The Lions barring an anomalous game will be playing from behind every game. Calvin is much more likely to see more targets than Moss at this point.

 

[SwampDawg]

Going forward which wide receivers would you prefer to have over Calvin Johnson?

I'd deal Calvin straight up for:Terrell OwensSteve SmithBrandon MarshallRoddy WhiteGreg JenningsAndre JohnsonLarry FitzgeraldAnquan Boldin

Not really a stretch since you basically named the rest of the top 10 WR's in most leagues. A better question would be would you take a deal like Hightower and Kevin Curtis for Calvin if you needed RB help ? Or some other combo deals.

 

[FantasyTrader]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

Problem is most of those guys are out of the league and the others aren't throwing passes to Calvin. I don't think anyone in this thread is debating that Culpepper should be rostered.

I don't think anyone is debating that Megatron is talented either, but the variable has to be Culpepper. There are reasons why 32 teams avoided him like the plague (outlined in the OP).People have said the same thing about Cassel and Moss. Just throw him the ball and Moss' numbers will be fine. Hasn't exactly happened that way.

I don't think that Calvin's numbers are going to fall off a cliff, but I suspect for a couple of weeks he may have a problem.

Not sure I like this analogy. On Sunday night Moss didn't have one pass thrown to him in the 1st half.. so obviously they aren't foce feeing the ball to him like they seem to be doing in Detroit with CJ.. NE is still a good team & don't have to foce it to Moss. Detroit is brutal & seems intent to chuck it to CJ on a consistent basis. Sure he'll have some stinkers like any WR but I still think he's going to be fine with whomever his QB..

The Pats have something resembling a defense and if a defense decides to completely blanket Moss, New England has other avenues of moving the ball.

 

[Maven]

1. The last time Culpepper started a game was Nov. 25 2007.

Approximately one year ago. Which is precisely how long it'll be before Tom Brady starts another game. by the time he plays Not saying Culpepper is Brady, but this is not a reason to avoid him.

5. Lions have given up 27 sacks (5th in the league)

6. Their o-line sucks

These have been true with Kitna and Orlovsky as well. And yet Calvin has thrived despite those already being truths. Bringing in Culpepper isn't changing either of those two facets one way or the other.

4. Marinelli and Lions are horrible evaluators of talent (you trust their judgment?)

10. Oakland and Miami didn't want to retain him (Bottom of the barrel teams don't want him?).

So we shouldn't trust Detroit's talent evaluators, but we should trust Oakland's?

3 out of the remaining 8 remaining games are against top 10 pass defenses.

Which means 5 of the remaining 8 games are against non-top 10 defenses (with three of those games against teams ranked 20th or worse).

Please explain how Daunte Culpepper will help Calvin Johnson continue his production for the remaining year?

 

[AAABatteries]

Please explain how Daunte Culpepper will help Calvin Johnson continue his production for the remaining year?

He only needs to be as good as Orlovsky and I think that's doable because quite frankly Orlovsky stinks. Now if you asked me how does he make Calvin even better then I would say he doesn't.And I think others have made the more pertinent point already and that is you are going to have a hard time selling him high as their are question marks around him - ones that have been there all year and he's still produced. And just to clarify, I see the question of "Can Culpepper get the ball to Calvin?" == "Can Orlovsky get the ball to Calvin?".

 

[JPeso]

As a multiple league Calvin owner, I'd rather Culpepper at the helm.

 

[BigJim®]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

Ok, you take Trent Green and I'll take Daunte for 2008 FF points... sig bet?

BTW- one other thing I'll throw out there: Both Randall Cunningham and Jeff George I believe were generally considered completely washed up when Denny Green dusted them off and brought them in to pass to Randy Moss.Randall Cunningham

1996 PHI 605 yards/3 TDs/5 INTs

1997 MIN [limited action]

1998 MIN 3704 yards/34 TDs/10

Jeff George:

1998 OAK 1186 yards/4 TDs/5 INTs

1999 MIN 2816 yards/23 TDs/12 INTs

I'm not saying Daunte will have the same renewed performance. However, it would not exactly be earth shattering news if a 'has been' veteran QB had unexpected resurgence being dusted off to hoist the deep ball to a phenom WR.

 

[Delusions Of Adequacy]

Compelling arguments but I see Calvin as one of those WR freaks where you can just throw it up and let him get it. I'm not worried about it.

Unfortunately just because a WR is a freak at going up and getting balls, it doesn't mean any quarterback can just throw it up and they will be able to get it. An example is David Carr destroying Steve Smith's value last year.

I disagree. Steve Smith isn't a freak at outleaping everyone else on the field. His strength is YAC and straight line speed. Take a look at Calvin's TD catch this weekend. Not a great throw at all. His displayed great body control.

Couldn't agree more. Calvin's style is more like Randy Moss. Steve Smith is more Santana Moss.I believe Culpepper can lob it up in Calvin's general direction.

 

[David Yudkin]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

Problem is most of those guys are out of the league and the others aren't throwing passes to Calvin. I don't think anyone in this thread is debating that Culpepper should be rostered.

I don't think anyone is debating that Megatron is talented either, but the variable has to be Culpepper. There are reasons why 32 teams avoided him like the plague (outlined in the OP).People have said the same thing about Cassel and Moss. Just throw him the ball and Moss' numbers will be fine. Hasn't exactly happened that way.

I don't think that Calvin's numbers are going to fall off a cliff, but I suspect for a couple of weeks he may have a problem.

Not sure I like this analogy. On Sunday night Moss didn't have one pass thrown to him in the 1st half.. so obviously they aren't foce feeing the ball to him like they seem to be doing in Detroit with CJ.. NE is still a good team & don't have to foce it to Moss. Detroit is brutal & seems intent to chuck it to CJ on a consistent basis. Sure he'll have some stinkers like any WR but I still think he's going to be fine with whomever his QB..

The Pats have something resembling a defense and if a defense decides to completely blanket Moss, New England has other avenues of moving the ball.

Look, I'm not talking about other ways to move the ball, the defense, or winning games. But there were numerous threads early in the year where people were saying Moss would be fine because all Cassel needed to do was throw the ball in the general proximity of Moss, even in double or triple coverage, and Moss would still be a threat to be the #1 fantasy WR.Yes, Calvin will likely see more targets than Moss will, but having Culpepper as his QB IMO hurts his chances more than it helps.

 

[David Yudkin]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

Ok, you take Trent Green and I'll take Daunte for 2008 FF points... sig bet?

BTW- one other thing I'll throw out there: Both Randall Cunningham and Jeff George I believe were generally considered completely washed up when Denny Green dusted them off and brought them in to pass to Randy Moss.Randall Cunningham

1996 PHI 605 yards/3 TDs/5 INTs

1997 MIN [limited action]

1998 MIN 3704 yards/34 TDs/10

Jeff George:

1998 OAK 1186 yards/4 TDs/5 INTs

1999 MIN 2816 yards/23 TDs/12 INTs

I'm not saying Daunte will have the same renewed performance. However, it would not exactly be earth shattering news if a 'has been' veteran QB had unexpected resurgence being dusted off to hoist the deep ball to a phenom WR.

Detroit is more similar (overall) to Oakland than Minnesota, and Moss didn't exactly light it up in Oakland.

 

[Islanders rule]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

Problem is most of those guys are out of the league and the others aren't throwing passes to Calvin. I don't think anyone in this thread is debating that Culpepper should be rostered.

I don't think anyone is debating that Megatron is talented either, but the variable has to be Culpepper. There are reasons why 32 teams avoided him like the plague (outlined in the OP).People have said the same thing about Cassel and Moss. Just throw him the ball and Moss' numbers will be fine. Hasn't exactly happened that way.

I don't think that Calvin's numbers are going to fall off a cliff, but I suspect for a couple of weeks he may have a problem.

Not sure I like this analogy. On Sunday night Moss didn't have one pass thrown to him in the 1st half.. so obviously they aren't foce feeing the ball to him like they seem to be doing in Detroit with CJ.. NE is still a good team & don't have to foce it to Moss. Detroit is brutal & seems intent to chuck it to CJ on a consistent basis. Sure he'll have some stinkers like any WR but I still think he's going to be fine with whomever his QB..

The Pats have something resembling a defense and if a defense decides to completely blanket Moss, New England has other avenues of moving the ball.

Look, I'm not talking about other ways to move the ball, the defense, or winning games. But there were numerous threads early in the year where people were saying Moss would be fine because all Cassel needed to do was throw the ball in the general proximity of Moss, even in double or triple coverage, and Moss would still be a threat to be the #1 fantasy WR.Yes, Calvin will likely see more targets than Moss will, but having Culpepper as his QB IMO hurts his chances more than it helps.

I would think that Culpepper would be more inclined to force feed the ball to Megatron just like he did with Randy Moss to make himself look like a better QB than anyone else has been with the lions. After all, Didn't Moss make Culpepper a great short term QB ? Megatron has similiar size and speed to make Culpepper look good again without having to be so accurate.

 

[David Yudkin]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

Problem is most of those guys are out of the league and the others aren't throwing passes to Calvin. I don't think anyone in this thread is debating that Culpepper should be rostered.

I don't think anyone is debating that Megatron is talented either, but the variable has to be Culpepper. There are reasons why 32 teams avoided him like the plague (outlined in the OP).People have said the same thing about Cassel and Moss. Just throw him the ball and Moss' numbers will be fine. Hasn't exactly happened that way.

I don't think that Calvin's numbers are going to fall off a cliff, but I suspect for a couple of weeks he may have a problem.

Not sure I like this analogy. On Sunday night Moss didn't have one pass thrown to him in the 1st half.. so obviously they aren't foce feeing the ball to him like they seem to be doing in Detroit with CJ.. NE is still a good team & don't have to foce it to Moss. Detroit is brutal & seems intent to chuck it to CJ on a consistent basis. Sure he'll have some stinkers like any WR but I still think he's going to be fine with whomever his QB..

The Pats have something resembling a defense and if a defense decides to completely blanket Moss, New England has other avenues of moving the ball.

Look, I'm not talking about other ways to move the ball, the defense, or winning games. But there were numerous threads early in the year where people were saying Moss would be fine because all Cassel needed to do was throw the ball in the general proximity of Moss, even in double or triple coverage, and Moss would still be a threat to be the #1 fantasy WR.Yes, Calvin will likely see more targets than Moss will, but having Culpepper as his QB IMO hurts his chances more than it helps.

I would think that Culpepper would be more inclined to force feed the ball to Megatron just like he did with Randy Moss to make himself look like a better QB than anyone else has been with the lions. After all, Didn't Moss make Culpepper a great short term QB ? Megatron has similiar size and speed to make Culpepper look good again without having to be so accurate.

I would agree . . . if the Lions signed Culpepper 7 years ago.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

Problem is most of those guys are out of the league and the others aren't throwing passes to Calvin. I don't think anyone in this thread is debating that Culpepper should be rostered.

I don't think anyone is debating that Megatron is talented either, but the variable has to be Culpepper. There are reasons why 32 teams avoided him like the plague (outlined in the OP).People have said the same thing about Cassel and Moss. Just throw him the ball and Moss' numbers will be fine. Hasn't exactly happened that way.

I don't think that Calvin's numbers are going to fall off a cliff, but I suspect for a couple of weeks he may have a problem.

Not sure I like this analogy. On Sunday night Moss didn't have one pass thrown to him in the 1st half.. so obviously they aren't foce feeing the ball to him like they seem to be doing in Detroit with CJ.. NE is still a good team & don't have to foce it to Moss. Detroit is brutal & seems intent to chuck it to CJ on a consistent basis. Sure he'll have some stinkers like any WR but I still think he's going to be fine with whomever his QB..

The Pats have something resembling a defense and if a defense decides to completely blanket Moss, New England has other avenues of moving the ball.

Look, I'm not talking about other ways to move the ball, the defense, or winning games. But there were numerous threads early in the year where people were saying Moss would be fine because all Cassel needed to do was throw the ball in the general proximity of Moss, even in double or triple coverage, and Moss would still be a threat to be the #1 fantasy WR.Yes, Calvin will likely see more targets than Moss will, but having Culpepper as his QB IMO hurts his chances more than it helps.

There is one BIG difference between Cassel and Culpepper. Culpepper throws a great deep ball, Cassel doesn't. I am not really big on the Culpepper signing. But Orlovsky wasn't doing much and I can't see any major downgrade from Orlovsky to Culpepper.

 

[Islanders rule]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

Problem is most of those guys are out of the league and the others aren't throwing passes to Calvin. I don't think anyone in this thread is debating that Culpepper should be rostered.

I don't think anyone is debating that Megatron is talented either, but the variable has to be Culpepper. There are reasons why 32 teams avoided him like the plague (outlined in the OP).People have said the same thing about Cassel and Moss. Just throw him the ball and Moss' numbers will be fine. Hasn't exactly happened that way.

I don't think that Calvin's numbers are going to fall off a cliff, but I suspect for a couple of weeks he may have a problem.

Not sure I like this analogy. On Sunday night Moss didn't have one pass thrown to him in the 1st half.. so obviously they aren't foce feeing the ball to him like they seem to be doing in Detroit with CJ.. NE is still a good team & don't have to foce it to Moss. Detroit is brutal & seems intent to chuck it to CJ on a consistent basis. Sure he'll have some stinkers like any WR but I still think he's going to be fine with whomever his QB..

The Pats have something resembling a defense and if a defense decides to completely blanket Moss, New England has other avenues of moving the ball.

Look, I'm not talking about other ways to move the ball, the defense, or winning games. But there were numerous threads early in the year where people were saying Moss would be fine because all Cassel needed to do was throw the ball in the general proximity of Moss, even in double or triple coverage, and Moss would still be a threat to be the #1 fantasy WR.Yes, Calvin will likely see more targets than Moss will, but having Culpepper as his QB IMO hurts his chances more than it helps.

I would think that Culpepper would be more inclined to force feed the ball to Megatron just like he did with Randy Moss to make himself look like a better QB than anyone else has been with the lions. After all, Didn't Moss make Culpepper a great short term QB ? Megatron has similiar size and speed to make Culpepper look good again without having to be so accurate.

I would agree . . . if the Lions signed Culpepper 7 years ago.

David, I dis-agree, I think Culpepper will be more inclined to throw up passes for Megatron to go up and get than he will to throw strikes to Mc Donald & Furrey because they require less accuracy. We'll see.Edited to add throws to Megaton will require less accuracy.

 

[David Yudkin]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

Problem is most of those guys are out of the league and the others aren't throwing passes to Calvin. I don't think anyone in this thread is debating that Culpepper should be rostered.

I don't think anyone is debating that Megatron is talented either, but the variable has to be Culpepper. There are reasons why 32 teams avoided him like the plague (outlined in the OP).People have said the same thing about Cassel and Moss. Just throw him the ball and Moss' numbers will be fine. Hasn't exactly happened that way.

I don't think that Calvin's numbers are going to fall off a cliff, but I suspect for a couple of weeks he may have a problem.

Not sure I like this analogy. On Sunday night Moss didn't have one pass thrown to him in the 1st half.. so obviously they aren't foce feeing the ball to him like they seem to be doing in Detroit with CJ.. NE is still a good team & don't have to foce it to Moss. Detroit is brutal & seems intent to chuck it to CJ on a consistent basis. Sure he'll have some stinkers like any WR but I still think he's going to be fine with whomever his QB..

The Pats have something resembling a defense and if a defense decides to completely blanket Moss, New England has other avenues of moving the ball.

Look, I'm not talking about other ways to move the ball, the defense, or winning games. But there were numerous threads early in the year where people were saying Moss would be fine because all Cassel needed to do was throw the ball in the general proximity of Moss, even in double or triple coverage, and Moss would still be a threat to be the #1 fantasy WR.Yes, Calvin will likely see more targets than Moss will, but having Culpepper as his QB IMO hurts his chances more than it helps.

I would think that Culpepper would be more inclined to force feed the ball to Megatron just like he did with Randy Moss to make himself look like a better QB than anyone else has been with the lions. After all, Didn't Moss make Culpepper a great short term QB ? Megatron has similiar size and speed to make Culpepper look good again without having to be so accurate.

I would agree . . . if the Lions signed Culpepper 7 years ago.

David, I dis-agree, I think Culpepper will be more inclined to throw up passes for Megatron to go up and get than he will to throw strikes to Mc Donald & Furrey because they require less accuracy. We'll see.Edited to add throws to Megaton will require less accuracy.

I would be inclined to agree that AT SOME POINT Culpepper may be inclined to throw up jump balls to Johnson. However, that would be if he had been healthy, practicing, in shape, knew the playbook, had any blocking, and had chemistry with Johnson. I suspect that initially all those factors will cause Johnson to lose something production wise.

 

[Wally Cleaver]

I traded him 2 weeks ago for Colsten, so far I am regretting that move but we shall see going forward....

 

[Wrigley]

Going forward which wide receivers would you prefer to have over Calvin Johnson?

I'd deal Calvin straight up for:

Terrell Owens Romo will be back after bye Steve Smith True Stud

Brandon Marshall This one is close, but I would take Marshall the rest of the way

Roddy White

Greg Jennings

Andre Johnson Sage coming in, confidence issues? Um really?

Larry Fitzgerald God yes

Anquan Boldin ditto

Other big name would be Wayne, Burress, Moss, Edwards, Colston etc...............Wayne by a landslide

Confidence in Sage? You are kidding, right?

AJ>>>>>>>>>>CJ and it's not really close.

And I'm a CJ owner.

 

[Islanders rule]

Culpepper was great in 2004. Trent Green, Jake Plummer, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, Domanick Davis, Javon Walker, Joe Horn, and Randy McMichael were all Top 5 fantasy players as well that year. Many of them are also available.

Problem is most of those guys are out of the league and the others aren't throwing passes to Calvin. I don't think anyone in this thread is debating that Culpepper should be rostered.

I don't think anyone is debating that Megatron is talented either, but the variable has to be Culpepper. There are reasons why 32 teams avoided him like the plague (outlined in the OP).People have said the same thing about Cassel and Moss. Just throw him the ball and Moss' numbers will be fine. Hasn't exactly happened that way.

I don't think that Calvin's numbers are going to fall off a cliff, but I suspect for a couple of weeks he may have a problem.

Not sure I like this analogy. On Sunday night Moss didn't have one pass thrown to him in the 1st half.. so obviously they aren't foce feeing the ball to him like they seem to be doing in Detroit with CJ.. NE is still a good team & don't have to foce it to Moss. Detroit is brutal & seems intent to chuck it to CJ on a consistent basis. Sure he'll have some stinkers like any WR but I still think he's going to be fine with whomever his QB..

The Pats have something resembling a defense and if a defense decides to completely blanket Moss, New England has other avenues of moving the ball.

Look, I'm not talking about other ways to move the ball, the defense, or winning games. But there were numerous threads early in the year where people were saying Moss would be fine because all Cassel needed to do was throw the ball in the general proximity of Moss, even in double or triple coverage, and Moss would still be a threat to be the #1 fantasy WR.Yes, Calvin will likely see more targets than Moss will, but having Culpepper as his QB IMO hurts his chances more than it helps.

I would think that Culpepper would be more inclined to force feed the ball to Megatron just like he did with Randy Moss to make himself look like a better QB than anyone else has been with the lions. After all, Didn't Moss make Culpepper a great short term QB ? Megatron has similiar size and speed to make Culpepper look good again without having to be so accurate.

I would agree . . . if the Lions signed Culpepper 7 years ago.

David, I dis-agree, I think Culpepper will be more inclined to throw up passes for Megatron to go up and get than he will to throw strikes to Mc Donald & Furrey because they require less accuracy. We'll see.Edited to add throws to Megaton will require less accuracy.

I would be inclined to agree that AT SOME POINT Culpepper may be inclined to throw up jump balls to Johnson. However, that would be if he had been healthy, practicing, in shape, knew the playbook, had any blocking, and had chemistry with Johnson. I suspect that initially all those factors will cause Johnson to lose something production wise.

Agreed, However this only strenghtens my thoughts that Pep has a better chance of CJ pulling down jump balls than he has of hitting Mc Donald or Furrey on crossing routes.