Sell Vincent Jackson now! (1 Viewer)

[Raider Nation]

Is he even playing??

 

[RBM]

Really showing him off today. I'm sure teams are lining up at that second round price.

 

[shadyridr]

Maybe he was traded before the game?

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Vincent Jackson - WR - Buccaneers

Vincent Jackson was forced the Bucs' Week 17 game against the Saints with a groin injury, and is doubtful to return.

V-Jax went down midway through the first quarter, and the quick "doubtful" tag is a strong indication he will not return. V-Jax had one catch for 11 yards before going down, bringing his season line to an uninspiring 70/1,002/2. Jackson has now cleared 1,000 yards in each of his three seasons as a Buc, but watched his touchdown totals fall from eight to seven to two. Two weeks shy of his 32nd birthday, V-Jax is now clearly behind Mike Evans on the depth chart. V-Jax remains one of the league's best pure deep threats, but his days of no doubt WR1/2 status in fantasy are over. Jackson is due a hefty $9.777 million in 2015, but should remain in Tampa.

Dec 28 - 1:33 PM

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Based on conversations with multiple NFL executives, Bleacher Report's Jason Cole expects the Buccaneers to ask Vincent Jackson to take a pay cut.
Cole foresees a potential "glut" of wideouts either restructuring or hitting the free agent market, including V-Jax, Percy Harvin, Mike Wallace, and Brandon Marshall. Jackson turned 32 years old last month and is owed a $9.8 million base salary. If he doesn't accept a pay cut, he could be released.

Source: Bleacher Report
Feb 12 - 1:19 PM

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Bucs GM Jason Licht stated at the Combine that Vincent Jackson will stay with the team in 2015.
The Bucs are rebuilding and Jackson is 32 years old with a $9.78 million base salary. It was natural to guess the Buccaneers might consider parting ways. Instead, Licht stated V-Jax will "absolutely" stay on Tampa Bay's roster. The sides still plan to meet in Indianapolis, presumably to discuss Jackson's contract. Jackson may still be asked to restructure, perhaps by converting some of his salary into incentives he can earn back.

Source: Rick Stroud on Twitter
Feb 18 - 2:57 PM

 

[-CE-]

Rotoworld:

Bucs GM Jason Licht stated at the Combine that Vincent Jackson will stay with the team in 2015.
The Bucs are rebuilding and Jackson is 32 years old with a $9.78 million base salary. It was natural to guess the Buccaneers might consider parting ways. Instead, Licht stated V-Jax will "absolutely" stay on Tampa Bay's roster. The sides still plan to meet in Indianapolis, presumably to discuss Jackson's contract. Jackson may still be asked to restructure, perhaps by converting some of his salary into incentives he can earn back.

Source: Rick Stroud on Twitter
Feb 18 - 2:57 PM

Given how his negotiations went with San Diego, I can't see him restructuring. I'd assume he'll make just as much on the open market as he would with Tampa and find himself in a better situation.

 

[Archer]

Could it be that his career is somewhat resurrected if they draft Winston?

 

[Grahamburn]

Could it be that his career is somewhat resurrected if they draft Winston?

It couldn't hurt.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Vincent Jackson - WR - Buccaneers

Profootballtalk reports the Bucs have not asked Vincent Jackson to take a pay cut.

The Bucs are expected to keep Jackson despite his $12.2 million cap hit. Jackson turned 32 this offseason and managed just two touchdowns in 2014, but remains one of the league's better deep threats. Bucs GM Jason Licht said at the Combine that Jackson will "absolutely" return next season.

Source: Profootballtalk on Twitter

Feb 27 - 8:25 PM

 

[Grahamburn]

Classy move by the Bucs.

 

[Soulfly3]

Very smart move.

Vet presence. Good for the rookie QB they draft. Good for Evans to help him develop.

Sometimes the extra 2-3m you shell out on a guy helps yours team out in incalculable ways

 

[Grahamburn]

Very smart move.

Vet presence. Good for the rookie QB they draft. Good for Evans to help him develop.

Sometimes the extra 2-3m you shell out on a guy helps yours team out in incalculable ways

Consummate professional. Productive player. Involved in the community. All accounts are he works his tail off. It's great for other players to see the organization honor the contract as is when the player does everything asked of him and then some.

 

[matttyl]

Very smart move.

Vet presence. Good for the rookie QB they draft. Good for Evans to help him develop.

Sometimes the extra 2-3m you shell out on a guy helps yours team out in incalculable ways

Consummate professional. Productive player. Involved in the community. All accounts are he works his tail off. It's great for other players to see the organization honor the contract as is when the player does everything asked of him and then some.

Fully agree. I still think it was bad what San Diego did with/to him.

 

[Soulfly3]

Very smart move.

Vet presence. Good for the rookie QB they draft. Good for Evans to help him develop.

Sometimes the extra 2-3m you shell out on a guy helps yours team out in incalculable ways

Consummate professional. Productive player. Involved in the community. All accounts are he works his tail off. It's great for other players to see the organization honor the contract as is when the player does everything asked of him and then some.

Fully agree. I still think it was bad what San Diego did with/to him.

Well, considering they have a near rookie record setting WR that's coming up as an elite player, this is the smartest thing to do.

Give the best young players on your team some hope that things will improve, and that they'll be taken care of and not tossed aside when they're no longer at their peak.

Hard to keep players jacked up when you finish 2-14... But at least they'll have a shiny new QB, w some other toys, some well paid and happy vets... and some hope for the future.

they may have finished 2-14, but I have more hope/faith in TB than I do my Browns.

 

[BoltBacker]

I thought it was a huge mistake when the Bucs made him the highest paid WR in the league.

Since then the Bucs decided to invest all that money their record has been 13-35. He's averaged just under 6 TD's a season. He's never been a top 5 WR, and typically ranks ~12th WR. Now probably falls to #2 WR on his own team moving forward.

All that for $12+ million against the cap this year? Hard to argue with success.

 

[Capella]

Using the Bucs record to piss on Jackson's very very stellar performance is some kind of logic.

 

[Grahamburn]

I thought it was a huge mistake when the Bucs made him the highest paid WR in the league.

Since then the Bucs decided to invest all that money their record has been 13-35. He's averaged just under 6 TD's a season. He's never been a top 5 WR, and typically ranks ~12th WR. Now probably falls to #2 WR on his own team moving forward.

All that for $12+ million against the cap this year? Hard to argue with success.

Up until 2014 his numbers in Tampa have been fantastic. I'm giving him a mulligan.

 

[cstu]

Very smart move.

Vet presence. Good for the rookie QB they draft. Good for Evans to help him develop.

Sometimes the extra 2-3m you shell out on a guy helps yours team out in incalculable ways

Consummate professional. Productive player. Involved in the community. All accounts are he works his tail off. It's great for other players to see the organization honor the contract as is when the player does everything asked of him and then some.

Fully agree. I still think it was bad what San Diego did with/to him.

They offered him a $3.3M deal and he held out. Then he became a free agent. Neither side did anything wrong IMO.

 

[BoltBacker]

Using the Bucs record to piss on Jackson's very very stellar performance is some kind of logic.

Two things....

- ???? I'm not pissing on Jackson at all. Jackson is just cashing checks and avoiding drunk driving so good for him. I'm criticizing the cap management skills of the Bucs. Are you saying the Bucs record of success isn't related to the way they have managed their cap space? Do you think NE would pay their WR#2 $12+ million? There might be a reason NE is drafting in the #32 spot in April and TB is drafting #1 overall. I'm not hating on Jackson. Heck, I didn't even hate on Alvin Harper back in the day. If somebody offers you more money than you'll never be able to earn what are you supposed to do? I would sign on the dotted line as well.

- I guess it depends on your definition of the word "stellar". When you sign a guy to the biggest WR in the league I'm not sure what your expectations are. Last year Jackson was the #14 WR in the NFL(according to FBG's). This year, assuming Dwayne Bowe get's released from the cash strapped Chiefs like everyone says, the top four WR salaries against the cap in 2015 will be Calvin Johnson, Dez Bryant, Damaryius Thomas,...... and Vincent Jackson. One of these things is not like the others. The "stellar" performing Jackson argument kind of reminds me of the people that argue, "Hey why is everyone picking on Jay Cutler! He's not TERRIBLE, he's just a guy right in the teens somewhere.". Well, yeah, there is nothing wrong with being ranked in the teens at your position.... UNLESS you are being payed the equivalent of the franchise tag. Coincidentally, both the Bears and Bucs are drafting in the top ten so MAYBE cap management has something to do with wins and losses after all. (shrug)

 

[Grahamburn]

NFL value is not the same as fantasy value, and before 2014 Jackson had 2,608 yards and 15 TD's in his first two seasons after signing as a free agent. He has been nothing short of fantastic in Tampa.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Very smart move.

Vet presence. Good for the rookie QB they draft. Good for Evans to help him develop.

Sometimes the extra 2-3m you shell out on a guy helps yours team out in incalculable ways

Consummate professional. Productive player. Involved in the community. All accounts are he works his tail off. It's great for other players to see the organization honor the contract as is when the player does everything asked of him and then some.

Fully agree. I still think it was bad what San Diego did with/to him.

They offered him a $3.3M deal and he held out. Then he became a free agent. Neither side did anything wrong IMO.

bull####, AJ tried to strong arm him, and now AJ smith is unemployed

 

[BoltBacker]

NFL value is not the same as fantasy value, and before 2014 Jackson had 2,608 yards and 15 TD's in his first two seasons after signing as a free agent. He has been nothing short of fantastic in Tampa.

That's a great point, and I completely agree.

In fantasy football yardage is weighed heavily and viewed as a "better stat" somehow because it's easier to predict. In the NFL scoring touchdowns is what actually wins real NFL games. So let's look at the top 4 paid WR's in 2015 in that light. Since Jackson was signed to the highest WR contract three years ago....

TD's over the past three seasons:

Calvin Johnson - 25

Dez Bryant - 41

Demaryius Thomas - 35

Vincent Jackson - 17

Again, I think it's just a matter of what you mean by "Fantastic". If you are calling the other guys making franchise-tag money at WR Super-Fantastic-gasmic, then yeah I guess Jackson has been fantastic. Or maybe you are expecting and uptick in the production of Jackson now that he's 32 and a #2 WR on his own team? How many TD's(since you aren't interested in fantasy stats) are you guessing he scores in 2014? Do you think he does better than his average output and scores 6? Do you think he scores double digit TD's for the first time in his career? What is your projection for a guy that makes more than $12 million dollars. I think we can both agree there is very little chance he'll score a TD for each million he's making, right?

 

[TheFanatic]

NFL value is not the same as fantasy value, and before 2014 Jackson had 2,608 yards and 15 TD's in his first two seasons after signing as a free agent. He has been nothing short of fantastic in Tampa.

That's a great point, and I completely agree.

In fantasy football yardage is weighed heavily and viewed as a "better stat" somehow because it's easier to predict. In the NFL scoring touchdowns is what actually wins real NFL games. So let's look at the top 4 paid WR's in 2015 in that light. Since Jackson was signed to the highest WR contract three years ago....

TD's over the past three seasons:

Calvin Johnson - 25

Dez Bryant - 41

Demaryius Thomas - 35

Vincent Jackson - 17

Again, I think it's just a matter of what you mean by "Fantastic". If you are calling the other guys making franchise-tag money at WR Super-Fantastic-gasmic, then yeah I guess Jackson has been fantastic. Or maybe you are expecting and uptick in the production of Jackson now that he's 32 and a #2 WR on his own team? How many TD's(since you aren't interested in fantasy stats) are you guessing he scores in 2014? Do you think he does better than his average output and scores 6? Do you think he scores double digit TD's for the first time in his career? What is your projection for a guy that makes more than $12 million dollars. I think we can both agree there is very little chance he'll score a TD for each million he's making, right?

That's some nice cherry picking there. Take out last season for all three of the guys and see how those numbers shake out. He had a down year with absolutely pitiful QB's. The other guys had Romo, Stafford and Peyton F'n Manning throwing to them. Sheesh...

 

[BoltBacker]

NFL value is not the same as fantasy value, and before 2014 Jackson had 2,608 yards and 15 TD's in his first two seasons after signing as a free agent. He has been nothing short of fantastic in Tampa.

That's a great point, and I completely agree.

In fantasy football yardage is weighed heavily and viewed as a "better stat" somehow because it's easier to predict. In the NFL scoring touchdowns is what actually wins real NFL games. So let's look at the top 4 paid WR's in 2015 in that light. Since Jackson was signed to the highest WR contract three years ago....

TD's over the past three seasons:

Calvin Johnson - 25

Dez Bryant - 41

Demaryius Thomas - 35

Vincent Jackson - 17

Again, I think it's just a matter of what you mean by "Fantastic". If you are calling the other guys making franchise-tag money at WR Super-Fantastic-gasmic, then yeah I guess Jackson has been fantastic. Or maybe you are expecting and uptick in the production of Jackson now that he's 32 and a #2 WR on his own team? How many TD's(since you aren't interested in fantasy stats) are you guessing he scores in 2014? Do you think he does better than his average output and scores 6? Do you think he scores double digit TD's for the first time in his career? What is your projection for a guy that makes more than $12 million dollars. I think we can both agree there is very little chance he'll score a TD for each million he's making, right?

That's some nice cherry picking there. Take out last season for all three of the guys and see how those numbers shake out. He had a down year with absolutely pitiful QB's. The other guys had Romo, Stafford and Peyton F'n Manning throwing to them. Sheesh...

Wait, so now it's "cherry picking" if you don't throw out a season and don't look at all the seasons since he signed the contract? lol Congrats, I thought I had seen it all.

 

[BoltBacker]

I don't think you fully understand what "cherry picking" means. If I were cherry picking stats I would point out that in 16 games last year Vincent Jackson was paid more than $6 million dollars per touchdown. That would be cherry picking.

If I were to say in the three years since he signed the contract, Vincent Jackson has had his TD production go down... that is using the entire contract. That would NOT be cherry picking.

 

[Grahamburn]

I don't think you fully understand what "cherry picking" means. If I were cherry picking stats I would point out that in 16 games last year Vincent Jackson was paid more than $6 million dollars per touchdown. That would be cherry picking.

If I were to say in the three years since he signed the contract, Vincent Jackson has had his TD production go down... that is using the entire contract. That would NOT be cherry picking.

I'm not really sure what your agenda is here, but the Bucs' organization is happy with Jackson's contract, the fans are happy with his contract, and I'm sure he's happy with his contract. He's been awesome here.

Jackson's first two seasons in Tampa are up there with the best receiving seasons this franchise has ever had. They're about to draft a young QB who could use several big targets to throw the football to. Vincent Jackson will be one of them. Nobody is upset about this but you.

 

[Capella]

Weird that the Chargers fan would have a problem with Jackson's play, despite almost nobody else feeling that way.

 

[Archer]

just went against this thread's title and bought him. Gave up 3.4 rookie pick for him (12 team PPR dynasty league) Hopefully Winston helps his numbers...

 

[-CE-]

just went against this thread's title and bought him. Gave up 3.4 rookie pick for him (12 team PPR dynasty league) Hopefully Winston helps his numbers...

That's a good move. VJax still can play at a WR3/Flex level.

 

[-CE-]

NFL value is not the same as fantasy value, and before 2014 Jackson had 2,608 yards and 15 TD's in his first two seasons after signing as a free agent. He has been nothing short of fantastic in Tampa.

That's a great point, and I completely agree.

In fantasy football yardage is weighed heavily and viewed as a "better stat" somehow because it's easier to predict. In the NFL scoring touchdowns is what actually wins real NFL games. So let's look at the top 4 paid WR's in 2015 in that light. Since Jackson was signed to the highest WR contract three years ago....

TD's over the past three seasons:

Calvin Johnson - 25

Dez Bryant - 41

Demaryius Thomas - 35

Vincent Jackson - 17

Again, I think it's just a matter of what you mean by "Fantastic". If you are calling the other guys making franchise-tag money at WR Super-Fantastic-gasmic, then yeah I guess Jackson has been fantastic. Or maybe you are expecting and uptick in the production of Jackson now that he's 32 and a #2 WR on his own team? How many TD's(since you aren't interested in fantasy stats) are you guessing he scores in 2014? Do you think he does better than his average output and scores 6? Do you think he scores double digit TD's for the first time in his career? What is your projection for a guy that makes more than $12 million dollars. I think we can both agree there is very little chance he'll score a TD for each million he's making, right?

An entire team is responsible for scoring a TD.

Yes, cherry picking for a stat is what you're doing here.

Quit being butthurt that your GM tried to screw VJax over and VJax held out then left town. VJax was very much a great receiver and worth the contract that he signed in Tampa.

 

[Tau837]

FWIW I think BoltBacker is way off here. If one were to list all of the reasons in order for why the Bucs have gone 13-35 since they signed him, his contract would be far down the list.

In his first year in Tampa, VJax had 72/1384/8. He was a stud. Then the offense imploded around him. The QB situation has been a disaster. Schiano was a disaster. The defense has been lousy. And so on.

 

[BoltBacker]

I don't think you fully understand what "cherry picking" means. If I were cherry picking stats I would point out that in 16 games last year Vincent Jackson was paid more than $6 million dollars per touchdown. That would be cherry picking.

If I were to say in the three years since he signed the contract, Vincent Jackson has had his TD production go down... that is using the entire contract. That would NOT be cherry picking.

I'm not really sure what your agenda is here, but the Bucs' organization is happy with Jackson's contract, the fans are happy with his contract, and I'm sure he's happy with his contract. He's been awesome here.

Jackson's first two seasons in Tampa are up there with the best receiving seasons this franchise has ever had. They're about to draft a young QB who could use several big targets to throw the football to. Vincent Jackson will be one of them. Nobody is upset about this but you.

The only thing I am upset about is the Bucs are not in the AFC west.

 

[BoltBacker]

NFL value is not the same as fantasy value, and before 2014 Jackson had 2,608 yards and 15 TD's in his first two seasons after signing as a free agent. He has been nothing short of fantastic in Tampa.

That's a great point, and I completely agree.

In fantasy football yardage is weighed heavily and viewed as a "better stat" somehow because it's easier to predict. In the NFL scoring touchdowns is what actually wins real NFL games. So let's look at the top 4 paid WR's in 2015 in that light. Since Jackson was signed to the highest WR contract three years ago....

TD's over the past three seasons:

Calvin Johnson - 25

Dez Bryant - 41

Demaryius Thomas - 35

Vincent Jackson - 17

Again, I think it's just a matter of what you mean by "Fantastic". If you are calling the other guys making franchise-tag money at WR Super-Fantastic-gasmic, then yeah I guess Jackson has been fantastic. Or maybe you are expecting and uptick in the production of Jackson now that he's 32 and a #2 WR on his own team? How many TD's(since you aren't interested in fantasy stats) are you guessing he scores in 2014? Do you think he does better than his average output and scores 6? Do you think he scores double digit TD's for the first time in his career? What is your projection for a guy that makes more than $12 million dollars. I think we can both agree there is very little chance he'll score a TD for each million he's making, right?

An entire team is responsible for scoring a TD.

Yes, cherry picking for a stat is what you're doing here.

Quit being butthurt that your GM tried to screw VJax over and VJax held out then left town. VJax was very much a great receiver and worth the contract that he signed in Tampa.

I wasn't the one that said fantasy stats weren't a way to measure receivers. That's why we started focusing on TD's which are bigger impact in real football rather than fantasy football yardage.

What would a receiver making $12-$13mil need to produce to be playing "great"? Honest question.

 

[BoltBacker]

Weird that the Chargers fan would have a problem with Jackson's play, despite almost nobody else feeling that way.

Let's pretend that this is an NFL discussion forum and change the subject from me to Jackson.

We've already established that 5.x TD/season is "stellar" in your view. How few TD's per season would it take for a Buc fan to be disappointed in a WR making $12-$13 million per season? One? Zero, you can be honest if the only way you would be disappointed is if he got zero TD's.

Alvin Harper scored 2 TD and made a lot less than Jackson last year, so was he even better than "very very stellar"?

 

[BoltBacker]

The QB situation has been a disaster. Schiano was a disaster. The defense has been lousy. And so on.

He should hold out and get traded to whatever team that Mike Evans was on. That guy must have had a better defense, better coach and a great qb situation.

And so on.

 

[Capella]

I don't think you fully understand what "cherry picking" means. If I were cherry picking stats I would point out that in 16 games last year Vincent Jackson was paid more than $6 million dollars per touchdown. That would be cherry picking.

If I were to say in the three years since he signed the contract, Vincent Jackson has had his TD production go down... that is using the entire contract. That would NOT be cherry picking.

I'm not really sure what your agenda is here, but the Bucs' organization is happy with Jackson's contract, the fans are happy with his contract, and I'm sure he's happy with his contract. He's been awesome here.

Jackson's first two seasons in Tampa are up there with the best receiving seasons this franchise has ever had. They're about to draft a young QB who could use several big targets to throw the football to. Vincent Jackson will be one of them. Nobody is upset about this but you.

The only thing I am upset about is the Bucs are not in the AFC west.

You should be more upset that the Bucs have a bigger win in your own stadium than the Chargers ever will.

 

[-CE-]

NFL value is not the same as fantasy value, and before 2014 Jackson had 2,608 yards and 15 TD's in his first two seasons after signing as a free agent. He has been nothing short of fantastic in Tampa.

That's a great point, and I completely agree.

In fantasy football yardage is weighed heavily and viewed as a "better stat" somehow because it's easier to predict. In the NFL scoring touchdowns is what actually wins real NFL games. So let's look at the top 4 paid WR's in 2015 in that light. Since Jackson was signed to the highest WR contract three years ago....

TD's over the past three seasons:

Calvin Johnson - 25

Dez Bryant - 41

Demaryius Thomas - 35

Vincent Jackson - 17

Again, I think it's just a matter of what you mean by "Fantastic". If you are calling the other guys making franchise-tag money at WR Super-Fantastic-gasmic, then yeah I guess Jackson has been fantastic. Or maybe you are expecting and uptick in the production of Jackson now that he's 32 and a #2 WR on his own team? How many TD's(since you aren't interested in fantasy stats) are you guessing he scores in 2014? Do you think he does better than his average output and scores 6? Do you think he scores double digit TD's for the first time in his career? What is your projection for a guy that makes more than $12 million dollars. I think we can both agree there is very little chance he'll score a TD for each million he's making, right?

An entire team is responsible for scoring a TD.

Yes, cherry picking for a stat is what you're doing here.

Quit being butthurt that your GM tried to screw VJax over and VJax held out then left town. VJax was very much a great receiver and worth the contract that he signed in Tampa.

I wasn't the one that said fantasy stats weren't a way to measure receivers. That's why we started focusing on TD's which are bigger impact in real football rather than fantasy football yardage.

What would a receiver making $12-$13mil need to produce to be playing "great"? Honest question.

"we" didn't start focusing on TD's. You did. TD's are a huge impact in real life football, and TD's are a horrible way to measure a players worth. How many TD's does the left tackle score for a football team? What about a running back who doesn't get the goal line carries? What about a QB who plays in a run-oriented offense? Let me reiterate this, TD's are a horrible way to measure the worth of a player. What about a chain moving receiver? What about a guy like Julio Jones who only caught 6 TD's last year? Is he not worth as much? What about 2009 and 2012 Calvin Johnson, who scored 5 TD's in each of those seasons? "RIP UP HIS CONTRACT, HE ISN'T GETTING TO PAYDIRT."

A receiver making $12-$13MM should certainly be elite. Vincent Jackson's cap value this year ($12.2MM) puts him at 6th in the league by cap hit... that's below guys like Andre Johnson (2nd highest) and Dwayne Bowe (3rd highest) and just above Mike Wallace (7th highest) and Greg Jennings (8th highest). His cash figure is $9.8MM, putting him at the 11th ranked receiver for actual cash paid out in 2015.

There's a lot of factors at play when it comes to a contract. But to dumb it down so as to answer your "honest question" I'd say a receiver needs to average 1,200 yards a season to justify that sort of payday.

 

[BoltBacker]

- Andre Johnson and Dwayne Bowe are going to be released. True or false?

- I appreciate you actually giving a number which is better than any other Buc fan can manage to muster. So 1200 yards/0 TD's is worth $12-$13 million. That's fine. So that's about a top ~20-25 WR? Right?

- I'm not sure why anyone other than 32 people in the world would care about what a players "cash figure" is. We are talking about what he counts against the cap. That's what determines how much $ you can spend on the rest of the team around a player.

 

[BoltBacker]

I don't think you fully understand what "cherry picking" means. If I were cherry picking stats I would point out that in 16 games last year Vincent Jackson was paid more than $6 million dollars per touchdown. That would be cherry picking.

If I were to say in the three years since he signed the contract, Vincent Jackson has had his TD production go down... that is using the entire contract. That would NOT be cherry picking.

I'm not really sure what your agenda is here, but the Bucs' organization is happy with Jackson's contract, the fans are happy with his contract, and I'm sure he's happy with his contract. He's been awesome here.

Jackson's first two seasons in Tampa are up there with the best receiving seasons this franchise has ever had. They're about to draft a young QB who could use several big targets to throw the football to. Vincent Jackson will be one of them. Nobody is upset about this but you.

The only thing I am upset about is the Bucs are not in the AFC west.

You should be more upset that the Bucs have a bigger win in your own stadium than the Chargers ever will.

So..... one?

 

[-CE-]

- Andre Johnson and Dwayne Bowe are going to be released. True or false?

- I appreciate you actually giving a number which is better than any other Buc fan can manage to muster. So 1200 yards/0 TD's is worth $12-$13 million. That's fine. So that's about a top ~20-25 WR? Right?

- I'm not sure why anyone other than 32 people in the world would care about what a players "cash figure" is. We are talking about what he counts against the cap. That's what determines how much $ you can spend on the rest of the team around a player.

I have no clue. Last I heard was Johnson was given permission to seek a trade and Bowe would be released. It doesn't change the numbers.

Again, TD's are a function of so many things that they don't determine a players worth. McCoy went from 20 TD's in 2011 to 5 in 2014. You think he's not worth as much because the coaching staff changes? the passing game changes? a goal line back comes in for the TD's? The QB changes? Another WR comes in? The new WR of course won't have to worry about double teams that are all going to the established weapon. It takes 11 players to get the ball down into scoring range.

What about your boy Keenan Allen - only scored 4 TD's last year, down from 8 in his rookie year? Obviously he sucks and it was a horrible pick now, right?

 

[BoltBacker]

- Andre Johnson and Dwayne Bowe are going to be released. True or false?

- I appreciate you actually giving a number which is better than any other Buc fan can manage to muster. So 1200 yards/0 TD's is worth $12-$13 million. That's fine. So that's about a top ~20-25 WR? Right?

- I'm not sure why anyone other than 32 people in the world would care about what a players "cash figure" is. We are talking about what he counts against the cap. That's what determines how much $ you can spend on the rest of the team around a player.

I have no clue. Last I heard was Johnson was given permission to seek a trade and Bowe would be released. It doesn't change the numbers.

Again, TD's are a function of so many things that they don't determine a players worth. McCoy went from 20 TD's in 2011 to 5 in 2014. You think he's not worth as much because the coaching staff changes? the passing game changes? a goal line back comes in for the TD's? The QB changes? Another WR comes in? The new WR of course won't have to worry about double teams that are all going to the established weapon. It takes 11 players to get the ball down into scoring range.

What about your boy Keenan Allen - only scored 4 TD's last year, down from 8 in his rookie year? Obviously he sucks and it was a horrible pick now, right?

Yes, I would be very disappointed if Keenan Allen counted $12-$13 million against the cap and scoring 4 TD. Arguing he should be signed as the highest paid WR in the league would be absolutely, and completely absurd. Anyone arguing anything different would be ridiculous.

What do you mean when you say "It doesn't change the numbers"? If they get released.... the numbers change. That's why they are getting released. You said Vincent Jackson's cap # is below Andre Johnson and Dwayne Bowe but that won't be the case when they are released. So it absolutely will change the numbers.

 

[-CE-]

- Andre Johnson and Dwayne Bowe are going to be released. True or false?

- I appreciate you actually giving a number which is better than any other Buc fan can manage to muster. So 1200 yards/0 TD's is worth $12-$13 million. That's fine. So that's about a top ~20-25 WR? Right?

- I'm not sure why anyone other than 32 people in the world would care about what a players "cash figure" is. We are talking about what he counts against the cap. That's what determines how much $ you can spend on the rest of the team around a player.

I have no clue. Last I heard was Johnson was given permission to seek a trade and Bowe would be released. It doesn't change the numbers.

Again, TD's are a function of so many things that they don't determine a players worth. McCoy went from 20 TD's in 2011 to 5 in 2014. You think he's not worth as much because the coaching staff changes? the passing game changes? a goal line back comes in for the TD's? The QB changes? Another WR comes in? The new WR of course won't have to worry about double teams that are all going to the established weapon. It takes 11 players to get the ball down into scoring range.

What about your boy Keenan Allen - only scored 4 TD's last year, down from 8 in his rookie year? Obviously he sucks and it was a horrible pick now, right?

Yes, I would be very disappointed if Keenan Allen counted $12-$13 million against the cap and scoring 4 TD. Arguing he should be signed as the highest paid WR in the league would be absolutely, and completely absurd. Anyone arguing anything different would be ridiculous.

What do you mean when you say "It doesn't change the numbers"? If they get released.... the numbers change. That's why they are getting released. You said Vincent Jackson's cap # is below Andre Johnson and Dwayne Bowe but that won't be the case when they are released. So it absolutely will change the numbers.

Wow dude. You should just totally go sign the FA players who scored the most TD's every season then. I'm sure that will be a winning strategy. Eddy Lacy and Matt Asiata both tied for 3rd in the league with 9 rushing TD's last year. THEY HAVE THE SAME VALUE!!1!ONE!!1!!TWO@!!

It doesn't change the numbers until you cut them. They could have cut Vincent Jackson but didn't ... do you understand why?

Sure, once they are cut - it changes the numbers. They haven't been cut yet. The part you don't understand that it will not only change the numbers, but cost them "dead money" or what is known as a "cap hit"? So now you not only pay for a guy (via cap) you released, but you don't get his services either.

 

[BoltBacker]

Sure, once they are cut - it changes the numbers. They haven't been cut yet. The part you don't understand that it will not only change the numbers, but cost them "dead money" or what is known as a "cap hit"?

I don't?

What four WR's will count the most against the cap after Andre Johnson and Dwayne Bowe get released? INCLUDING "dead money".

 

[BoltBacker]

Shhhhhhh, it's a secret....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/05/report-chiefs-expected-to-cut-dwayne-bowe-if-they-cant-trade/

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000476637/article/chiefs-will-cut-dwayne-bowe-if-they-cannot-trade-him

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/03/05/kansas-city-chiefs-dwayne-bowe-future

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/red-zone/article12605834.html

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/406856/dwayne-bowe

 

[-CE-]

Shhhhhhh, it's a secret....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/05/report-chiefs-expected-to-cut-dwayne-bowe-if-they-cant-trade/

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000476637/article/chiefs-will-cut-dwayne-bowe-if-they-cannot-trade-him

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/03/05/kansas-city-chiefs-dwayne-bowe-future

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/red-zone/article12605834.html

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/406856/dwayne-bowe

Still hasn't occurred and funny that you're not bringing up Andre Johnson because you don't know jack, do you?

 

[Tau837]

The QB situation has been a disaster. Schiano was a disaster. The defense has been lousy. And so on.

He should hold out and get traded to whatever team that Mike Evans was on. That guy must have had a better defense, better coach and a great qb situation.

And so on.

I cited that stuff partly in reference to the 13-35 record since Jackson was signed. Guess what their record is with Mike Evans? That's right, 2-14.

I also cited that stuff partly to show that it was a lousy supporting cast for Jackson over the past two years. Fortunately for Mike Evans, he is good and had Jackson on the other side to draw the top corner.

 

[BoltBacker]

Shhhhhhh, it's a secret....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/05/report-chiefs-expected-to-cut-dwayne-bowe-if-they-cant-trade/

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000476637/article/chiefs-will-cut-dwayne-bowe-if-they-cannot-trade-him

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/03/05/kansas-city-chiefs-dwayne-bowe-future

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/red-zone/article12605834.html

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/406856/dwayne-bowe

Still hasn't occurred and funny that you're not bringing up Andre Johnson because you don't know jack, do you?

Ah, you CAUGHT ME!

(btw the last link is just for you since you seem to be grasping for them)

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/03/04/houston-texans-andre-johnson-asks-release

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/04/andre-johnson-asks-texans-to-release-him/

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2015/03/04/andre-johnson-asks-for-release-from-texans/

http://houseofhouston.com/2015/03/04/report-andre-johnson-wants-released-not-traded/

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2015-03-04/andre-johnson-asks-for-release-texans-agent-free-agency-best-fits

http://www.sportsworldreport.com/articles/45435/20150306/andre-johnson-rumors-trade-or-release-to-baltimore-ravens-cleveland-browns-denver-broncos-indianapolis-colts-patriots-options.htm

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/3/2/8138063/andre-johnson-trade-release-texans-contract

http://www.amazon.com/Crystalware-Plastic-Flexible-Individually-Wrapped/dp/B00ASHBWY8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1425759336&sr=8-3&keywords=straws

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Vincent Jackson says first-year OC Dirk Koetter is lining him up at "multiple places" in the Bucs' new offense.

V-Jax's perimeter speed has waned at age 32, but he is still capable of creating mismatches. "Dirk is having some fun moving me around and playing me in multiple places," said V-Jax. "It’s fun to play inside and outside, to be able stretch the field and cross the field. That’s what’s good about this system. We’re going to put the ball all over the place." Jackson's catch and yardage totals from 2014 were around his career norms, but he only scored two TDs. He's a solid bet to rebound to WR2/3 production in a pass-first offense with a quarterback upgrade.

Source: Tampa Bay Times
Jun 7 - 4:42 PM

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

OC Dirk Koetter reportedly won't hesitate to use Vincent Jackson in the slot.

Like so many field-stretching wideouts before him, Jackson is transforming his game as he slows down. The 32-year-old will play more slot and Z this year, leaving Mike Evans to do the heavy lifting at X. Koetter had a similar situation with a declining Roddy White in Atlanta the last two seasons, when White averaged 5.2 catches for 60.4 yards and 0.37 touchdowns per game.

Source: Tampa Tribune
Jun 23 - 8:12 AM