Shanahan or Cowher (1 Viewer)

[Steelers4Life]

I didn't make a comment on the calls at all, but since you brought them up, I think the Broncos caught some big breaks that lead directly to points tonight.  The pass interferference call could've gone either way, which to me means there shouldn't have been a call at all.  That gave the Broncos a TD, and the missed false start on the field goal probably would've cost them another 3 points.  Those plays changed the complexion of the game, and it's not easy to overcome stuff like that when you're playing a good team and behind on the scoreboard. 

In the end, they made enough plays to win the game, and that's all that matters.

Come on. That pass interference call came on first-and-10 from the 40. Even if it's an incomplete pass, the Broncos have the ball on New England's side of the field, and it's only second down. So that call didn't automatically cost 7 points. And Elam does have the second-most 50+ yarders in NFL history, so it's not like the false start was a guaranteed loss of 3 points, either. For all we know, if there was a false start, Shanny would have gone for it and scored a TD.But let's say that those penalties DID take 10 points off the board. Denver won by 14. 14-10 = 4 = Denver still won.

I still stand by what I said, though. You can't complain about calls in the first half, since you've got 30+ minutes to make up for them, and if you're REALLY a better team, you shouldn't have a problem doing just that.

Hey man, I didn't bring up the calls and I don't think the Broncos won because of them. They had an impact on the game, and it's not so simple as to say since they won by 14 it wouldn't have mattered because the game would've been different from that point on. You never know what would've happened had they had 2nd and 10 from the 40, and I think Shanahan had already turned down an opportunity to kick a 55 yard field goal. I don't think he'd have tried to kick one and risk giving the Pats the ball near midfield, but you never know. I thought the biggest turning point in the game by FAR was the INT by Bailey in the endzone. Without that mistake by Brady, the Pats are down 1 or up 3, but instead they ended up down 11 and that's a tough hole to dig out of.

I picked the Broncos to win the game, and I thought they were the better team.

 

[There it is]

We'll find out next week. Yes I predict a Pitts win against Indy.

 

[Ghost Rider]

We'll find out next week. Yes I predict a Pitts win against Indy.

Even if they play next week, that does not automatically determine whom is better, unless tonight's game means Shanahan is now better than Belichick (which would be less of a stretch since Shanny only trails Belichick by one Super Bowl and Cowher trails Shanny by two).

 

[top dog]

I can't believe this is even close. Throw me in on the side who thinks shanny is better. I've made the argument in one of the last Pitt threads that Cowher is one of the most OVERRATED coaches in the NFL and the Steelers were like the Braves of the NFL. Always very good, but you just know they aren't going to win it all every year. The argument that he has had little talent is flawed. Yes, Kordell is a crappy QB but during their run, he was a monster. Remember the "Slash" love all over the networks? He was the next greatest thing. They ALWAYS have talent on the defensive side of the ball, outside of a couple years they usually have an above average running game, and they had 2 1000 yard receivers on the same team for 5 years! (I know they didn't do it for 5 straight years).I just don't understand what exactly Cowher has done other than lose in the playoffs.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I can't believe this is even close. Throw me in on the side who thinks shanny is better. I've made the argument in one of the last Pitt threads that Cowher is one of the most OVERRATED coaches in the NFL and the Steelers were like the Braves of the NFL. Always very good, but you just know they aren't going to win it all every year.

The argument that he has had little talent is flawed. Yes, Kordell is a crappy QB but during their run, he was a monster. Remember the "Slash" love all over the networks? He was the next greatest thing. They ALWAYS have talent on the defensive side of the ball, outside of a couple years they usually have an above average running game, and they had 2 1000 yard receivers on the same team for 5 years! (I know they didn't do it for 5 straight years).

I just don't understand what exactly Cowher has done other than lose in the playoffs.

Regarding Kordell - He had a year or two where he was OK as a QB, but at no point in his career was he a guy who could pass against a defense that knew he had to. That was his big downfall and the reason he turned the ball over 4 times against Denver in the 1997 AFCC. Regarding always having defensive talent - I agree that he's had good to great defenses most years. The 2002 and 2003 defenses were pretty bad. The 2001 team was a great team, but it was 14 special teams points that cost him the AFCC that time, not the offense or defense.

Regarding what he's done - Aside from being one of the winningest coaches in the NFL for the past 13 years and leading 5 teams to the AFC Championship in that time, winning once, I guess he hasn't done much. Until now, he's always had teams led by QBs that couldn't win in the playoffs if the defense took away the running game. My point in defending the guy is that he's consistently taken a lot more abuse than he deserves for the losses, and if anything, he's gotten a few teams to overachieve just to get as far as they did.

 

[greenroom]

Guess we get to see who will be the better Coach is this week.

 

[da5exx]

Shanahan.BUMP.

 

[SSOG]

Guess we get to see who will be the better Coach is this week.

No we won't. One game isn't going to decide who is better, no matter HOW it turns out. Unless you mean to suggest that Shanahan is drastically better than Belichick (4-1 in head-to-head) and that Mike Holmgren is better than Joe Gibbs.

 

[BGP]

Guess we get to see who will be the better Coach is this week.

When I started this thread, the thought did cross my mind and I joking pondered "Watch, now I posted this question, they'll meet." But I didn't seriously think they would be playing for the AFC crown.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Guess we get to see who will be the better Coach is this week.

No we won't. One game isn't going to decide who is better, no matter HOW it turns out. Unless you mean to suggest that Shanahan is drastically better than Belichick (4-1 in head-to-head) and that Mike Holmgren is better than Joe Gibbs.

Exactly. One game will not decide who is the better coach. I do think that it is great to see the these two guys in the AFC title going against each other. With all of the great new head coaches that have popped up over the last few years, it has become almost commonplace to forget about Shanahan and Cowher when talking about the best coaches in the NFL, but for my money, they are two of the top five, without a doubt. Look at their records and success they have had over the past ten years plus and try telling me differently.

And since I think the winner of next week's game will beat the NFC representative in the Super Bowl, I think in three weeks, Shanahan will be celebrating his third Super Bowl win or Cowher his first.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Guess we get to see who will be the better Coach is this week.

When I started this thread, the thought did cross my mind and I joking pondered "Watch, now I posted this question, they'll meet." But I didn't seriously think they would be playing for the AFC crown.

Of course you didn't. According to you, Cowher is a second rate coach who can't win the big game, meanwhile, he's gone on the road and beaten 2 of the top 3 seeds in the AFC the last two weeks. I thought about your comments on Cowher's lack of cojones when he went for it twice on 4th down in the fourth quarter yesterday. A coach who was "playing not to lose" would never have done that.Good posting above this one by Ghost Rider. I agree on all points, 100%.

 

[Ghost Rider]

My biggest point is that Shanahan hasn't even won a single playoff game without Elway.

Sorry, but I had to do it. Your biggest point for choosing Cowher over Shanahan was that Shanny hadn't won a playoff game w/o Elway. He has now. So, are you ready to concede and say Shanahan is the better coach or are you going to wait and see how the next three weeks play out?

 

[Irish]

My biggest point is that Shanahan hasn't even won a single playoff game without Elway.

Sorry, but I had to do it. Your biggest point for choosing Cowher over Shanahan was that Shanny hadn't won a playoff game w/o Elway. He has now. So, are you ready to concede and say Shanahan is the better coach or are you going to wait and see how the next three weeks play out?

Well both coaches have done well this post season to shut their critics up. The knock against Cowher was that he was 0-3 on the road in the playoffs and now this post season he is 2-0 on the road. Should be a great game between two great coaches.

 

[PMENFAN]

My biggest point is that Shanahan hasn't even won a single playoff game without Elway.

Sorry, but I had to do it. Your biggest point for choosing Cowher over Shanahan was that Shanny hadn't won a playoff game w/o Elway. He has now. So, are you ready to concede and say Shanahan is the better coach or are you going to wait and see how the next three weeks play out?

Well, how's this looking now? Cowher takes a 6 seed on the road and knocks off the 3, 1 and 2 in successive weeks. Pretty good job of coaching? I think so. Not just the top 3, but into Shanahans house, and breaks up and 11 game home win streak in the AFC Championship. And yes, now Shanahan has won exactly ONE playoff game without Elway. Cowher has been to six AFC championships. He's 2-4. Shanny's 2-1. I'm not saying Shanny is a bad coach, just that cowhers record, even w/o SB rings, is more impressive through my eyes. Coaching consistently puts their players in position to win. Players win Championships. Cowhers has had more success as the coach.

 

[PMENFAN]

Guess we get to see who will be the better Coach is this week.

No we won't. One game isn't going to decide who is better, no matter HOW it turns out. Unless you mean to suggest that Shanahan is drastically better than Belichick (4-1 in head-to-head) and that Mike Holmgren is better than Joe Gibbs.

IMHO, head to head is largely irrelevent. Prolonged success, against the league, winning against everybody, is a far better measure. Doing is consistently. Also somebody mentioned both as top 10. I'd even say top 5. But, the discussion was who is better, Shanahan or Cowher. I think most of the Cowher supporters throughout have given their props to shanny, while many of the Shanny supporters have dismissed Cowhers success, because he hasn't won it all.

 

[Tyranny]

I see both coaches as pretty equal. Both, most of the time,make good draft decisions. Both have gotten their players to play hard for them. Both find excellent free agents for their teams. They have gone through their struggles but for the most part they put up winning records. I laughed at Shannahan last off season for saying that they were 1 or 2 good players away from the Super Bowl. I thought " Yeah if that one player was Elway or Terrell Davis , but damn he was right. I laughed when he picked up the Browns D-line, but he was right again. The man gets it.... I always believed Cowher was a great fit for Pittsburgh. The man bleeds for this game. Make all the comments you want about his spitting, his jaw, his too conservative play calling, he's better than the majority of coaches in the league.Histeams are constantly ravaged by free agency and yet he still manages to put out a quality product every year. Those players that left have nothing negative to say about him. Before signing with New England, Chad Brown stopped an interview, when the sportshow host made fun of Cowher and tried to get Chad to say something negative. Chads reply was..." Best coach I ever played for." As for Sb's and AFC Championship games, someone else has already said...It is a whole team concept, from the players, to the coaches, to the owners,that decide a teams success.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Bill Cowher is not any better right now than he was yesterday. The difference in the Steelers this year is QB play, plain and simple. In the past, Cowher ran conservative offenses because he didn't have the personnel (i.e. QB) NOT to be conservative. It's Roethlisberger who has allowed Cowher to be a much more aggressive coach because he has the talent to come through. Denver stacked the line all day, and in the past, the Steelers would've struggled to score. It's amazing what a great QB can do for an offense. Cowher now has a career postseason record of 11-9 with 6 AFC Championship appearances and 2 Super Bowl appearances in 14 years. If not for a couple O'Donnell INTs, he'd already have a ring. His Steelers will now be favorites to win it all and get this monkey off Cowher's back.