Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I dunno - Demario Davis is solid, Danny Shelton isn't a terrible run stopper. They have some pieces on D, but they seem to prefer pass rushing DL to run-stopping, so I'd be inclined to agree.
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Sleeper Alert: Rob Kelley - RB - WAS (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eminence
- Start date
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He was also a Jet last season and was not a big part of why the Jets played the run so well last season. Davis is ok overall, but not all that solid against the run. Shelton could develop into a real nice player though. It was only preseason, of course, but teams ran rampant over the Browns and I think that will continue.
With all this said, I'm still not all that high on Kelley anyway as I just don't see the talent - I am putting in a claim for him in my local dynasty that doesn't have offseason waivers (first waiver run is tonight), however as I could use some depth, so if I get him I hope I'm wrong about that.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
Agreed. There's a less-than-50%-chance that Jones holds the starting job all year in my opinion. Injuries, fumbles, and the fact that when he's touched behind the line of scrimmage he damn near stops before starting again -- all those don't bode well for him. He had 2 big games last year, then stunk up the remaining games he played with a 2.9 YPC topped off with the highest turnover rate among league RB's. Jones did not show he was anything special. Perhaps he will this year, which would be cool because I'm a Skins fan. But I don't expect it, and Thompson won't be the 1st and 2nd down back, which leaves Kelley, or Mack Brown from the practice squad, or a guy they bring in.
Those meaningless preseason stats for all Redskin RB's are here BTW: http://www.nfl.com/teams/washingtonredskins/statistics?team=WAS
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Matt Jones looks pretty good out there.
Kelly looks invisible.
Kelly looks invisible.
tone1oc
Footballguy
5 rushes for 13 yards. Killing it.
You're right about Kelley. Not getting any run so far.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Watching Williams hit the hole for Pitt makes me realize just how slow and plodding the skins backs are.
tone1oc
Footballguy
Problem with this is that it is going to be hard to keep Kelley if he isn't getting any playing time, despite how bad Matt Jones is.
bigmarc27
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Last one in this thread, please turn out the lights and lock up.
packer_junkie
Footballguy
Thompson is a Terrible blocker. Got cousins hammered 3 or 4 times. He also was worst in league last year in YAC.
Yea I didnt expect a lot from Kelly last night but what I did expect was a mediocre performance from Jones/Thompson to open the door for Kelly. Probably will have to suffer through another 2-3 weeks of un noteworthy rb play before Kelly gets his shot.
looks like another case where someone overreacts to week1...
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
In fairness to him, as pointed out in this thread Kelley was literally one of the worst candidates ever, as far as prospects go, to have success in this league.
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bostonfred
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
JMJ
Footballguy
I'm holding. Matt Jones is an awful RB who, despite being a big man, tries to dance and bounce everything outside. With a poor Oline, you can't do that. You have to run smash mouth, north-south and just keep positive yards churning. I have more confidence in Kelley doing that than Jones and I'm confident that Gruden and the coaching staff will soon too.
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fatness
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
My professional opinion is that I have no clue. I know nothing about Richard except he had a large amount of yards on a few carries.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Sounds like a real fantasy gold mine if Jones gets hurt.fatness said:
/sarcasm
massraider
Footballguy
Skins won't look that bad that often. I have no idea what that means for Kelley, just pointing out that Skins will score a lot of points this year.
socrates
Footballguy
Based on pure talent, I would definitely say Richard, but Kelley may have an easier path to consistent numbers. If Matt Jones goes down or fails to impress, Chris Thompson will continue to see his touches, but he is not likely going to be used as an every-down back. Richard not only has to contend with Latavius Murray for carries, but DeAndre Washington will be in the mix. While I prefer Richard from both a talent perspective and based on his team's offense, and I firmly believe he is the better dynasty prospect, I don't know that you will be able to confidently put him in your fantasy lineup any time soon.JohnnyU said:
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
8 pages....about Rob Kelley. Fascinating.
JMJ
Footballguy
Borden
Footballguy
fatness said:
These two things go hand in hand. I think Gruden wants to pass and pass a lot. That defense wasn't as bad as the box score shows but Cousins needs to play better. No matter what happens I think Washington will see a more active running game. Either Cousins doesn't pick it up and they are forced to run it more or he plays better and the lanes (ypcarry) improves. I think this week the game and game script just got away from the coaches this week. They host Dallas this week and I can see them righting the ship.
Thompson looked undersized in pass pro and Jones didn't do a whole bunch to impress. But Kelley didn't even get a look. Which might not be bad because he didn't get a chance to look bad like the other two did. If this coaching staff sees Kelley as anything more than an emergency back up, I'd think this week they will go out of their way to get him involved. Where I can, I'm going to sit on him for one more week and if it doesn't change, cut him.
Borden
Footballguy
It's not really though. It's trying to find FF potential then trying to figure out if it's fools gold (which we aren't even at that point yet). RBs are scarce on the WW and there is high turn over at the position. 8 pages on Rob Kelley are part of the reason the SP is valuable. Being ahead of the crowd on pick ups is huge in FF. But even if you decide not to dive in on a player and then a player breaks out, it is probably the most information/opinions/discussion that you will find on that player.
tone1oc
Footballguy
And a lot of the 8 pages are people trying to explain this concept to him. I guess it's much more productive to poo poo a long shot and then fluff your feathers when they don't hit.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Oh,I agree with that 100%
in fact it's probably safe to say that this is the most that anyone has ever talked about Kelley, including his mother, father, siblings, and likely the entire Washington Redskins coaching staff.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
In fairness at this point he still has a shot at playing time - and while I'm not a huge believe in his game, if he get's it who knows? Things happen.
ETA: Heck I just noticed he went undrafted in my only redraft league (Jones went in Round 8 (?) and Chris Thompson went very late) - and we have deep benches. I'm not going to waste a waiver priority slot on him but may pick him up during FCFS waivers. I'd only have to drop Kamar Aiken (and I'm very deep at WR).
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DallasDMac
Footballguy
I'd be interested to hear what you saw that made you say this. Because I must have missed it.
Borden
Footballguy
Yep. One of AB's touchdowns Breeland actually had really good coverage and the ball went through Breelands arms and into ABs. That goes from a pick in the endzone to a TD. Another one of the Steelers TDs bounced off of Wheaton (or Coates, I forget) and Rogers gets a TD. That could have just as easily been a pick.
In the first quarter Washingtons D forced a 3 and out then got a pick on the 4th play of the Steelers second possession. On the start of Pitt's third possession theres a strip sack fumble that Ben falls on. On that same drive, the D ends up holding the Steelers to a 4th and 1 on their own 29. Most of the time this would've been just holding a team to a FG. Instead there it ends up being an AB TD. On the next drive Pitt coverts another 4th and 1 instead of kicking the FG. That drive ends with the bounce pass TD and 30 seconds before half time. 14 points given up at half that if Tomlin hadn't gone for (and converted) on 4th down, likely would've been only 6 points at half.
Second half, Pitt gets the ball and Wash D holds for a FG. Next drive AB gets his 2nd TD on 3rd and 3. Next drive 3 and out. So, going into the 4th quarter, it easily could've been 16 (3 FG, 1 TD) or less. The first drive in the 4th, Wash gets Pitt into a 3rd and 13 on the Wash 41, Coates gets 14. And the Steelers finish the drive with a TD. But that's another drive that was close (2 yards) to being stopped. The last drive they are down 31-16 and Cousins just gave the ball back on the Wash 45 with 4 minutes left. Steelers drive and score the last TD. In the fourth though the play calling and morale has changed.
I'm not saying Washington has an elite defence or anything like that but this could have been much closer. Especially, when you compare it to the 38 glowing neon score everyone will see. It's not like they got lit up by some scrub team. A strong argument could be made that the Steelers have the best offence in the league.
I will only say that there's no chance of a pick on AB's TD. Brown had the ball tracked, at worst he makes sure it isn't intercepted. That's what top tier WRs do every time to guys like Breeland. Also, it was a bit under thrown. What I'd take away from that is any top WRs will absolutely be open on Breeland. My take away wouldn't be an almost INT on a play where Brown blew by him easily.
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Chaka
Footballguy
Personally I don't trust Jay Gruden to 1) commit to the running game and 2) coordinate an effective running game even if he did actually commit to one.
In five seasons as a coordinator or head coach he averaged 439 attempts/season. But the breakdown is very interesting between Cincinnati where he averaged 457 att/season (3 seasons) way down to 415 att/season (2 seasons) once he was calling all the shots in Washington. I think the increased emphasis on the run in Cinci probably came from Marvin.
Now you could say that he has never really had much talent to work with and that would be mostly true. 2011 it was an aged out Cedric Benson, who was never truly impressive even in his prime. 2012 it was Ben Jarvus Green-Ellis who was never much of a running talent. 2013 it was BJGE and Bernard. So I guess it can be argued that he really couldn't scheme much better to improve upon the 3.6, 4.1 & 3.9 yards per attempt during his three seasons in Cincinnati (3.9 ypa over those three seasons).
But in Washington I think it is a different situation. Alfred Morris may not be his "type of back" but that guy averaged 4.7 yards per attempt on 611 carries in the two seasons prior to Gruden's arrival. After Jay shows up Alfred averages 3.9 yards per attempt on 467 carries over two seasons. Morris was a young back just hitting his prime (26 years old) and Gruden couldn't find a way to deploy his, unquestionably, most talented RB to better effect? I put that on the coach. Alf may not have been a scheme fit but great coaches figure out how to modify their scheme to maximize the talent they have.
So in two years calling the shots in Washington they have managed a paltry 3.9 yards per attempt on an equally paltry 830 attempts.
Point being, even if Jones and Thompson and every other RB on the roster goes down with ball cancer I wouldn't have high expectations for Rob Kelly. Gruden just doesn't run enough or scheme the running game well enough to be hopeful for much more than what we have seen.
In five seasons as a coordinator or head coach he averaged 439 attempts/season. But the breakdown is very interesting between Cincinnati where he averaged 457 att/season (3 seasons) way down to 415 att/season (2 seasons) once he was calling all the shots in Washington. I think the increased emphasis on the run in Cinci probably came from Marvin.
Now you could say that he has never really had much talent to work with and that would be mostly true. 2011 it was an aged out Cedric Benson, who was never truly impressive even in his prime. 2012 it was Ben Jarvus Green-Ellis who was never much of a running talent. 2013 it was BJGE and Bernard. So I guess it can be argued that he really couldn't scheme much better to improve upon the 3.6, 4.1 & 3.9 yards per attempt during his three seasons in Cincinnati (3.9 ypa over those three seasons).
But in Washington I think it is a different situation. Alfred Morris may not be his "type of back" but that guy averaged 4.7 yards per attempt on 611 carries in the two seasons prior to Gruden's arrival. After Jay shows up Alfred averages 3.9 yards per attempt on 467 carries over two seasons. Morris was a young back just hitting his prime (26 years old) and Gruden couldn't find a way to deploy his, unquestionably, most talented RB to better effect? I put that on the coach. Alf may not have been a scheme fit but great coaches figure out how to modify their scheme to maximize the talent they have.
So in two years calling the shots in Washington they have managed a paltry 3.9 yards per attempt on an equally paltry 830 attempts.
Point being, even if Jones and Thompson and every other RB on the roster goes down with ball cancer I wouldn't have high expectations for Rob Kelly. Gruden just doesn't run enough or scheme the running game well enough to be hopeful for much more than what we have seen.
