What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

So, who will the Chargers pick? (1 Viewer)

Just Win Baby said:
Not sure they made the right picks, but I don't think they needed to add more than 2 OL in the draft. Only so many guys can make the roster, and, whether you agree or not, Telesco had already committed to these guys before the draft: Dunlap, Barksdale, Franklin, Fluker, Watt, Hairston, and Wiggins.

Obviously the lack of center was notable, and Telesco addressed it in the draft with a guy who is expected to be a big upgrade over what the Chargers have had the past two seasons. (Granted, that is a really low bar...) The worst thing about the Tuerk pick may be that, because he is coming off injury, Telesco may feel he should keep Robinson on the roster.

And Telesco added a G/T in Clark in the draft, though I think he probably isn't good enough to make the final roster, maybe the practice squad.

With the addition of Tuerk and better health, will this line be good enough? Perhaps not, but it should be a lot better than the trainwrecks of the past two seasons. Without better health, it will be another trainwreck.
Click to expand...
Struck out the garbage players. They are worth nothing imo, not even worth mentioning. Not saying you CAN'T find guys in that range that have a chance, but I don't believe Clark was one of those guys. For instance BAL got James Hurst for nothing and he played pretty well for someone undrafted(he was coming off an injury). But that's Ozzy.

I think people are making a mistake assuming that SD has fixed their HORRIBLE OL from last year by drafting Tuerk in the third round. First off, I was happy about the pick because Telesco had made such a ****-sandwich out of the OL this offseason than ANY help is better than NO help. But the third round was considered the very tip-top of Tuerk's potential landing spots in the NFL draft. Most people had him rated somewhere between the 3rd and 5th round. SD chose him as a very high 3rd rounder. That doesn't make him any better a player. Let's also not forget..... he is replacing a third rounder that was a flop. A guy that was projected a 3rd-5th rounder for that matter that SD reached for a few years ago. People act like, "Well they got their center in the third round instead of the first.... so they addressed the problem." The problem is.....

Kelly>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whitehair/Martin >>>>>>>>>>> Tuerk 

so that means 

Kelly>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuerk

And, as always, this OL has NO DEPTH. ZERO. If your mush-mellon LT has his normal season where he misses several games the OL predictably falls apart and Rivers struggles down the stretch as he gets beat up through the year. Again. And Again. Rinse, repeat.

 
BoltBacker said:
I agree that he CAN play the run, but they need his pass rushing skills more than anything imo. You can draft a 3-4 DE that defends the run well anytime you want. Even in bad years. They call those run-stopping specialists "two down players" but that's not even true. In the NFL passing defenders are two down players, run stoppers are one down players and short yardage specialists. Pass rushers are so much more valuable than run stoppers it's not even close. I was a little shocked they passed on Noah, although he has character concerns and Telesco seems to avoid bad character guys. But if you are winning 4 games with high character guys, then.......

If you really want to pull your hair out think about this. If Telesco would have passed on Mager last year they could have drafted a perfect 3-down 3-4 DE in Henry Anderson, and then of course this year as you mention they could have passed on Perry(who I actually think is a good prospect IF you don't have any of that type of player already) and instead drafted Billings they would have Bosa/Anderson/Liuget/Mebane/Billings on the DL. That might have made the SD DL the deepest and most talented unit on the entire team..... all for the price of giving up Mager/Perry. This ILB-run-stuffer obsession is killing the Chargers.... one draft after another.
Click to expand...
Maybe we are talking semantics to some degree here. As a 3-4 DE, I'm not saying he won't rush the passer, of course. But he was PFF's highest rated edge defender against the run for the past two college seasons, which is really impressive. He should be an upgrade rushing the passer, especially given the low bar he has to clear for that (Reyes)... but he should be an even bigger upgrade against the run. Which suggests that he doesn't have to be limited to running downs or passing downs but instead can play all downs.

With regard to Telesco, I think we generally agree. But, even ignoring last year's draft, there was a real opportunity to turn both of the team's biggest weaknesses (C and DL) into strengths. It remains to be seen if that was accomplished with center. It was not accomplished with DL, because Bosa is not sufficient to do it on his own. Despite the fact that this draft was known to be very deep at DL. Who are the first DL off the bench? Carrethers and Lissemore? That is very weak depth.

 
I'm not sure who is worse, Watt/Hairston vs Lissenmore/Carrethers as depth. Luckily offensive and defensive lineman rarely get injured and their play isn't all that important in the success of your team anyway. If you want special teams kick/punt coverage LB's and a new punter..... SD is well stocked. It's the result of many, many years of strong off-seasons in a row. May even result in a 5th win this year if they pin enough folks inside the 20.

 
Nice link. From the link Pagano seems to be saying what I've been saying, and why I was saying he isn't a bad pick even if is a Jared Allen type at 269lb .....

 “We see him as a five-technique in our base defense,” Said Pagano. “He’s a defensive end in our sub defense. Everybody wants to rate everything off of base defense these days, and the last two or three years we’ve been in sub defense, which would be a nickel or a dime defense -- a four-down look. I think our numbers were at 70 percent.”

 
BoltBacker said:
I'm not sure who is worse, Watt/Hairston vs Lissenmore/Carrethers as depth. Luckily offensive and defensive lineman rarely get injured and their play isn't all that important in the success of your team anyway. If you want special teams kick/punt coverage LB's and a new punter..... SD is well stocked. It's the result of many, many years of strong off-seasons in a row. May even result in a 5th win this year if they pin enough folks inside the 20.
Click to expand...
I think you are too caught up on the draft and ignoring the fact that Telesco made the OL and DL priorities the last couple years in free agency.  When we sign a Mebane or a Barksdale or a Franklin, those are just as good, if not better than 3rd or 4th round OL or DT.  

And it's not as if Telesco has ignored OL and DL in the draft either.  He's been here for 4 drafts, and he's used his two highest picks on an OL (Fluker) and a DL (Bosa).  

With Butler leaving, we needed another player at ILB, so I have no idea why you would blast the Perry pick, especially since most analysts suggest we got great value there.  He'll be valuable insurance for Teo and Perryman and play a lot of snaps as the 3rd backer while also helping special teams.  

 
:lmao:  at Telesco making DL a priority.  He has used one quality pick on DL and signed one quality (we hope) free agent DL. Two quality players in 4 years does not show priority. 

As for ILB depth, yes it was needed... because Telesco chose to release Conner. Even so, he could have gotten similar or better ILB depth in later rounds and used the 4th round pick on one of the lines. 

 
Just Win Baby said:
Here is a good opportunity for Telesco to show that he is prioritizing OL: Former Chicago Bears OG/C Matt Slauson is visiting the Chargers
Click to expand...
Agreed, signing Slauson would be a big deal. Just like last year when non-Charger fans yawned at the signing of Barksdale and he was the best OLman on the team, or the year before when they signed Flowers and people thought he might be a bench CB behind Shareece Wright..... people are going to downplay the signifigance of a Slauson signing but giving Tuerk a year to adjust to the NFL would be huge and having Tuerk/Watt as depth would give the OL the best depth it's had in years. Hopeful.

 
tommyGunZ said:
I think you are too caught up on the draft and ignoring the fact that Telesco made the OL and DL priorities the last couple years in free agency.  When we sign a Mebane or a Barksdale or a Franklin, those are just as good, if not better than 3rd or 4th round OL or DT.  

And it's not as if Telesco has ignored OL and DL in the draft either.  He's been here for 4 drafts, and he's used his two highest picks on an OL (Fluker) and a DL (Bosa).  
Click to expand...
But this is type of thinking is part of the problem. I have been hearing for years now, "He can't fix the OL in ONE off-season!"

Well, he's four years in. In those four years he's never once had 5 starting caliber OLmen. Now, unless Fluker completely turns around his steady slide, he should be grooming someone to take over for Fluker next year instead of paying him $9mil. Fluker may have had a solid rookie year but since then he has not played like a $9mil/season player..... he just hasn't. He hasn't really even played like a $4mil/season player if we are being honest. 

As I have been saying for years now, it's unrealistic to expect 5 NFL players to play 80/80 starts. So you really need 6 legitimate NFL lineman. It's not a position like ILB where you only need ONE on the field more than half the time because you are in sub-packages to defend the pass. You need 5 OLman on the field 100% of the time. Telesco has never cobbled together more than 4, unless you are counting a third round pick recovering from an injury and we haven't even seen that play out yet. The last third round pick that everyone told me was the solution at C flamed out in spectacular fashion(read: performed exactly like his pre-draft bio would have predicted).

That doesn't even begin to point out if you don't over-invest in ILB you just end up with a defense that can't stop the run(don't look now but they can't stop the run even spending all this draft capital on the position). If you under-invest in OL then you hamstring your really, REALLLY big investments on the team; Rivers/Gordon.

 
Just Win Baby said:
Here is a good opportunity for Telesco to show that he is prioritizing OL: Former Chicago Bears OG/C Matt Slauson is visiting the Chargers
Click to expand...
Why did the Bears let Matt Slauson go? He was cheap, awesome and there was no need to create cap space unless something is coming? -- @scottyfred1

This was far and away the most popular topic in the mailbag this week and for good reason. Slauson was a pillar on the offensive line the last three seasons and a popular player in the locker room with teammates and media. I wouldn’t say that Slauson was necessarily cheap. He was under contract for this season at just a shade under $3 million. That’s not a huge pay day but it certainly doesn’t qualify as cheap. Here’s the deal and it was obvious back in March when the team signed Ted Larsen and Manny Ramirez within days of each other: The front office and coaching staff didn’t place the same value on Slauson as a player as the majority of the public did. It’s evidence the team doesn’t place stock in third-party analytics that are regularly cited by fans and media alike. The Bears clearly set out to create much more competition for the interior of the line and that trend continued when they used their second-round draft pick on Kansas State’s Cody Whitehair. Kyle Long is slated to start at right guard and the left guard and center jobs look to be up for grabs. Slauson was much, much better than the other guards the Bears used last season – Vladimir Ducasse and Patrick Omameh – but you’re not aiming to improve if you’re comparing anyone to below average players like the right guards from last season. The Bears tried to trade Slauson and those efforts began well before the draft. Slauson has multiple teams pursuing him right now as he is visiting the Chargers and is scheduled to visit the Bills, where coach Rex Ryan and offensive line coach Aaron Kromer both have familiarity with him. But the fact that the team couldn’t flip Slauson for a draft pick should also be an indication of how other teams viewed him and the $3 million salary for this season. This wasn’t a move that was made to clear cap space. The Bears made a football decision. The 2016 season will tell us if it was the right move or the wrong move.
Click to expand...
Bears loss would our gain.

 
Anyone else notice Terron Armstead signs a 5yr-$65mil deal?

May factor into FA next year when SD is desperate for a LT. Where are all the people that said a LT doesn't fit on the SD roster in the 1st round? Short term decisions have consequences. Last year they spend 3 draft picks to take Gordon, since they have Gordon they have to pass on Zeke. These decisions start compounding after awhile. 

 
BoltBacker said:
Anyone else notice Terron Armstead signs a 5yr-$65mil deal?

May factor into FA next year when SD is desperate for a LT. Where are all the people that said a LT doesn't fit on the SD roster in the 1st round? Short term decisions have consequences. Last year they spend 3 draft picks to take Gordon, since they have Gordon they have to pass on Zeke. These decisions start compounding after awhile. 
Click to expand...
I think a LT would have fit on the roster, it just wasn't nearly a position of need like C, DE, or TE. 

I suspect the plan will be to draft a LT early next year.  

 
I think Attaochu is primed for a big year - double digit sacks and ready to establish himself as a 23 year old beast.  If so, the 2014 draft is going to be graded highly in retrospect as well.

 
It's a struggle to find a more poorly run NFL franchise on every level. The only thing that separates the Browns from the Chargers is Rivers.

 
Just Win Baby said:
I don't understand their methodology. The methodology used is poor IMO. Fluker has been below average and Teo has been worse throughout their careers. Allen was a great pick, but the rest of the picks were collectively bad.
Click to expand...
I absolutely understand the methodology. It's the same one used in previous Charger threads to claim SD had great off-seasons. Telesco drafted a "starting" C and NT...... what a great drafter! Well, if those guys are starting at a level of play well below average then it speaks to not only poor drafting but poor work in FA. Not only did they draft a bad starter but there is obviously no depth at the position to even challenge that bad starter.

For all those people that think acquiring starters is the ultimate litmus test for FO competency...... why has anyone ever gotten fired in CLE? After all every Brown GM has assembled 11 "STARTERS" on offense, and 11 on defense. Even the Patriots haven't done better than that!?!?

The level of play of the starters sort of matters.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Re-grading 2013 NFL draft class, three years later.
Click to expand...
Be honest MT, how many guys in that draft have not been disappoinrments?

Allen: was a great pick when he unexpectedly fell to the third round - A+

Fluker: I was all for the pick, excited after his rookie season, has steadily gotten worse since and lately injuries. Now he has coincidentally decided to get in shape in his contract year. Would cost $9mil to keep him. Too late. - D(11th pick in 1st)

Te'o: Cost a 2nd and 4th as a run stopper, SD hasn't been able to stop the run since drafting him and continue to use draft picks to replace him, gets dinged up - D

Steve Williams: roster bubble DB but only cost 5th, about the same quality as a minimum wage vet you can sign any year - C+

Tourek Williams - " LB " 6th " - B-

Brad Sorenson: never seemed to have much upside in the first place, and remember I am all for taking a QB somewhere near the bottom of the draft every other year or more often... but this is your late roumd flyer? Giant upgrade by signing an undrafted rookie to replace him this year imo - F+

 
Wow, knowing what Gordon underwent microfracture surgery it's surprising that SD didn't use their early, early 5th round draft choice on...

Jordan Howard

or

Jonathen Williams

or

Paul Perkins

or 

Alex Collins

At the time of the draft I was pissed they were missing out on Ronald Blaire(DL), John Theus(OL), Mathew Judon(DL), Joe Dahl(OL), KJ Dillon(S), Chris Westerman(OL), DJ Reader(DL), Rashard Higgins(WR)..... now I am kinda pissed they missed out on all those RB's.

What happened to that pick again?

 
BoltBacker said:
Be honest MT, how many guys in that draft have not been disappoinrments?

Allen: was a great pick when he unexpectedly fell to the third round - A+

Fluker: I was all for the pick, excited after his rookie season, has steadily gotten worse since and lately injuries. Now he has coincidentally decided to get in shape in his contract year. Would cost $9mil to keep him. Too late. - D(11th pick in 1st)

Te'o: Cost a 2nd and 4th as a run stopper, SD hasn't been able to stop the run since drafting him and continue to use draft picks to replace him, gets dinged up - D

Steve Williams: roster bubble DB but only cost 5th, about the same quality as a minimum wage vet you can sign any year - C+

Tourek Williams - " LB " 6th " - B-

Brad Sorenson: never seemed to have much upside in the first place, and remember I am all for taking a QB somewhere near the bottom of the draft every other year or more often... but this is your late roumd flyer? Giant upgrade by signing an undrafted rookie to replace him this year imo - F+
Click to expand...
As underwhelming as Fluker has been, he's still one of the best players from the 2013 draft.  I'll take it. 

Te'o is the pick that ticked me off at the time - obvious it was an utter waste of an early 2nd.

 
BoltBacker said:
Wow, knowing what Gordon underwent microfracture surgery it's surprising that SD didn't use their early, early 5th round draft choice on...

Jordan Howard

or

Jonathen Williams

or

Paul Perkins

or 

Alex Collins

At the time of the draft I was pissed they were missing out on Ronald Blaire(DL), John Theus(OL), Mathew Judon(DL), Joe Dahl(OL), KJ Dillon(S), Chris Westerman(OL), DJ Reader(DL), Rashard Higgins(WR)..... now I am kinda pissed they missed out on all those RB's.

What happened to that pick again?
Click to expand...
Their 5th rounder?  They used it on Jatavis Brown, a pick lots of analysts have singled out as being a possible steal.  

 
cstu said:
As underwhelming as Fluker has been, he's still one of the best players from the 2013 draft.  I'll take it. 

Te'o is the pick that ticked me off at the time - obvious it was an utter waste of an early 2nd.
Click to expand...
Oh, to be clear, I was all for the Fluker pick...... but both Lotulelei and Sheldon Richardson were drafted right after him. In addition to OL help SD has needed DL help since...... well, since...... when did Fred Dean leave? In any case calling Fluker a reason SD earned an A+ is pretty silly when he's been a below average "starter" drafted just outside the top 10.

Bleacher Report has an interesting article right now about Te'o being one of their possible surprise veteran cuts before the season starts. I am not the biggest PFF believer, but in the article it says Te'o was the 126th rated ILB out of 129 and after watching him I believe it. Given this is the last year of the rookie deal I was kind of hoping they would trade him for anything if for no other reason Telesco won't be tempted to sign him again. Telesco loves nothing more than a one-down-LB.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

zamboni
Players Likely To Sit In Week 18
Replies
24
Views
1K
zamboni
zamboni
W
Dynasty Rookie Draft 1.02 Dilemma
Replies
21
Views
670
beef
beef
ChuckLiddell
Does your dynasty league still include kickers?
Replies
43
Views
908
zed2283
Z

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top