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Solutions To The Border Crisis - Specifically Housing And Detention (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Thanks for the discussion in the Why The Opposition? - We Can Do Better - Are We Too Tribal? thread.

Let's talk about possible solutions here. 

With these assumptions.

1. We're not talking about Open Borders.

2. People want into the US. Some will do it the legal way and claim asylum through proper channels. Some will do it illegally and try to cross the border unauthorized.

3. There will be families involved. One can make the argument children are used to help the parents get in. Doesn't really matter. The reality is there will be families and children detained. 

4. Even if these people are doing something illegal, they are human and deserve to be treated humanely. That does not mean everyone gets in. But that does mean when they are detained, the detention centers or jails are humane.

What do you think can be solutions?

 
I have a good friend who I love and respect. He sent me this when I asked him this question:

Have conditions in Guat. or Honduras changed massively since 2000 so that we have this exponential increase? No.

Do not let anyone lie to you about this, check it out for yourself.

Republicans and Democrats failed to fix our broken immigration system, because for different reasons they like it broken.

Obama made a change that resulted in massive waves of people who are destitute in their home country realize that if they brought a kid and if they lied about their reason for coming, they got in and could work for a few years at least.

That is what happened. 

Am I for bad conditions in holding? Absolutely not! I do not know anyone who is.

[clipped]

Short term solutions:

1. Increase massively the number of immigration judges assigned to the border. Offer base style free housing and financial incentives and get impartial judges down there in at least a factor of what we have now. 

2. Do not allow anyone out of custody until the hearing. No more initial determination hearing followed by see you in 2 years and no one shows up.

3. Keep families together. We can treat this like a crisis because it is one. Jim Clayton sold a bunch of mobile homes I think after Katrina to FEMA, lets get some nice spots set up.

4. Punish very harshly human traffickers. This includes offering incentives for Mexico to eliminate the brutal abusing rapists who could be identified by their victims who keep coming to the US in droves.

Longer term solutions

1. Massively expand our guest worker program.
"I am here because I can never make much money in my countries unjust and exploitative economy" is not an asylum claim, but it is almost everyone who is coming. Let many more of them come legally and find work! Folks from Central America who are here illegally are some of the hardest working people I have ever been around. We would be much better off figuring out how to work with them than keep them in the shadows.

2. Intervene in their broken countries. The lack of compassion for the people whose growth is stunted because no one in their region can afford more than beans and rice stuns me. The U.S. already intervened in ways that are immoral in Central America, lets intervene in a positive way!

 
More judges and less delays in the process.

Humane facilities with basic human needs of soap, toothbrushes and so on.

Yes it costs money and yes it’s the right thing to do.

There is no one real solution.  As long as our economy is going well, and there are jobs here...and situations in other countries are as poor as they are, we will have people wanting to come here.

 
We could start by removing the financial incentive for private jail companies to make conditions as harsh as possible.

 
Massive bulking up of all aspects of the process for asylum seekers so as to speed up the process in order to not have to house so many 

 
Obama made a change that resulted in massive waves of people who are destitute in their home country realize that if they brought a kid and if they lied about their reason for coming, they got in and could work for a few years at least.
What specific change was this, and why didn't Trump eliminate it on 1/21/2017?

edit: your friend actually has some good ideas, although I suspect that there is a disconnect between his philosophies of "Do not allow anyone out of custody" and "Massively expand our guest worker program." If he truly believes in the latter, then he shouldn't be so hung up on keeping these people in custody.

 
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Well, most people know how I feel about your first point, but putting that aside: 

We need to do more to address the underlying issue that is the cause of all of this, which is the economic and social misery in Guatemala and El Salvador. The United States is not without blame here: we have propped up their corrupt governments, supported their refusal to diversify their economies because it was to our benefit, and we are largely responsible for the climate change which has done so much damage to their agriculture. 

We need a Marshall Plan for Latin America- one that emphasizes economic opportunity for their poorest citizens. We need to force them to accept land reform (meaning division of the great estates that are still owned in most of those countries by 1% of the population.) Let’s help them make their existing nations good places to live. 

 
I have a good friend who I love and respect. He sent me this when I asked him this question:
I strongly disagree with your friend’s beginning premise: conditions in the countries he named, and El Salvador, HAVE deteriorated sharply since 2000. That’s the main reason they’re coming, not any rule by Obama. 

ETA But I am in full agreement with his last point. 

 
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Some kind of New Deal PWA, CWA, WPA style programs that offers housing for families while adults are paid minimum wage to rebuild infrastructure in exchange for a quick path to citizenship.

The toughest issue is how many do you take? How do you cap it? What do you with those who came after or aren’t accepted. 

 
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Asylum requests to be processed at the U.S. embassy in their country of origin only, not at our border.

An increase in foreign aid, and that aid administered from our embassies, not by giving the money over to the foreign government which may or may not be corrupt.

More judges to clear up the backlog at our border.

Provide at least the care at the border that I give to my dog, healthy food, regular exercise, clean water, regular hygiene opportunities, a warm safe place to sleep on a comfortable surface, good medical care, including immunizations. (I do not advocate giving immigrants belly rubs.)

 
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I strongly disagree with your friend’s beginning premise: conditions in the countries he named, and El Salvador, HAVE deteriorated sharply since 2000. That’s the main reason they’re coming, not any rule by Obama. 
Can you give me some backup links there?

 
your friend actually has some good ideas, although I suspect that there is a disconnect between his philosophies of "Do not allow anyone out of custody" and "Massively expand our guest worker program." If he truly believes in the latter, then he shouldn't be so hung up on keeping these people in custody.
He bypassed a career in law to work in an urban after school ministry with a majority refugee population. And has one of the kindest hearts of anyone I know. I suspect I understand him better than you might. He's primarily interested in safety and massively expanding the worker program while still vetting who is allowed in the program. 

 
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Can you give me some backup links there?
There lots of articles about there about all of the countries involved. Here is an overview about the recent deterioration in El Salvador from the World Bank: 

https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/elsalvador/overview

Its never been a good time to live in El Salvador, but in the last 3 years they’ve had a near economic collapse- and over 17% of all industry is gang related, murders are at an all time high, etc. 

 
There lots of articles about there about all of the countries involved. Here is an overview about the recent deterioration in El Salvador from the World Bank: 

https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/elsalvador/overview

Its never been a good time to live in El Salvador, but in the last 3 years they’ve had a near economic collapse- and over 17% of all industry is gang related, murders are at an all time high, etc. 
Where is the economic collapse in your link? Is that the link you meant to include?

The smallest country in Central America, El Salvador has a population of 6.4 million (2017) and is one of the most densely populated countries, ranking in the 83rd percentile worldwide in terms of population density.

GDP growth in El Salvador reached 2.3 percent in 2017 and its per capita GDP equaled almost US$4,000 the same year. Agriculture, livestock, forestry and fisheries, manufacturing and mining, and commerce, restaurants and hotels accounted for about two-thirds of the observed growth. The country also continues to benefit from a strong inflows of workers remittances, totaling US$5.4 billion in 2018 (21.3 percent of GDP).

However, El Salvador suffers from persistent low levels of growth. Annual GDP growth has exceeded 3 percent only twice since 2000 and averaged just 2.3 percent in the last five years, one of the lowest growth rates in the Central American region. The country is expected to grow at 2.6 percent in 2019.

The country’s low growth has translated into modest poverty reduction and high rural poverty. The poverty rate (based on a $5.5 per day poverty line) declined from 39 percent in 2007 to 31 percent in 2016. Extreme poverty (based on a $3.2 per day poverty line) also declined from 15 percent to 10 percent over the same period.

El Salvador’s high levels of public debt (70.7 percent of GDP in 2018) are a matter for concern. The pension system reform made in 2017 reduced the financing needs of the public sector. As a result, it is expected that the fiscal deficit will stabilize around 2.5 percent of GDP in the coming years. However, the significant risk associated to the higher debt service resulting from higher interest rates is a call for additional fiscal consolidation efforts to reduce public debt levels. 

In terms of political and social developments, the country has accomplished noteworthy progress on both fronts. Democracy and peace have been consolidated since the end of the civil war in 1992, and five consecutive democratic presidential elections have taken place with peaceful transitions of power. Moreover, El Salvador continues to make progress in advancing human development outcomes mainly through the expansion of access to public services. For example, in the health sector, increased access to healthcare facilities, particularly by the poor, contributed to El Salvador’s ability to reach MDG 4 (reducing under-5 mortality).

Immunization rates have increased from 76 percent in the 1990s to 93 percent in 2016. Similarly, the share of the population with access to improved water sources increased from 79 percent to 89 percent, and the share with access to improved sanitation expanded from 56 percent to over 95 percent during the same period. In education, both access (particularly at the primary level) and literacy rates have increased, with the most significant advances in urban areas. Yet, high school dropouts remain a challenge.

El Salvador is also becoming a more equal country. Inequality – measured by the Gini coefficient – declined by about 5 percentage points between 2007 and 2016. This reduction was driven by income growth for the poorest 20 percent in 2016, making El Salvador the most equal country in Latin America the same year, after Uruguay.

But crime and violence threaten social development and economic growth in El Salvador, and negatively affect the quality of life of its citizens. While gang-related violence has substantially dropped in recent years (OSAC, 2018), El Salvador continues to have one of the highest homicides rate in the world: 60.07 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2017. Crime and violence make doing business more expensive, negatively affect investment decisions and hinder job creation.

The country has also very high exposure and vulnerability to natural hazards, including earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. It is also highly vulnerable to climate change impacts, including increased occurrences of floods, droughts, and tropical storms.

Last Updated: Apr 04, 2019

 
Summary: at the moment, President Trump’s description of El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras as “####hole countries” is largely correct. But they do not have to be. We can help fix that, and we have to or the number of migrants is only going to increase: NOTHING that we do with regard to our own borders will prevent that. 

 
From another friend of mine who works in an after school urban ministry for at risk kids.

I'm thankful there are many who are worried and vocal about what's happening at the border... I think it does help draw attention to the situation and increase awareness. I'm hopeful those same people would love to move beyond the keyboard and roll up their sleeves to help. We're hundreds of miles away from the border but the good news is that we have a great need right here in our city. Our neighborhood has numerous immigrant children and hundreds of children who are kids of immigrants. Most of them have a great need for homework help, a reading buddy, tutoring, and compassionate mentors. Thanks Joe for contributing to the conversation and maybe some of your followers will find it helpful to know that they can start meeting great needs of immigrant children starting as early as this afternoon.
Is this of interest to people? 

Who's willing to back away from the keyboard and actually do something? I'm sure there are programs like my friend's in most cities. 

 
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Thanks. Not sure what this is. Can you elaborate and why you like it? Downsides of it?
I would start here. Bennet also happens to be running for President.
Basically Joe what happened was Democrats and Republicans got together and confected a deal with something like $35-40 billion available for:

  • sufficient border security.
  • housing, care, etc. of detainees.
  • provisions for courts.
  • a plan for citizenship for those already across the border.
So, win, win, win, and constitutionally appropriate.

The problem? The Freedom Caucus in the House stopped it.

 
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Where is the economic collapse in your link? Is that the link you meant to include?
I selected that article of two good articles I read about El Salvador because I thought it was more comprehensive. The point about the near economic collapse comes from the other article: 

https://www.worldfinance.com/strategy/el-salvadors-economic-shackles

this one is longer and you have to scroll down to get to it. But this is a good article because it talks about El Salvador’s great potential for economic growth if they could just solve their problems- one of them is that 70% of all businesses have had to deal with gang violence! 

 
In Honduras the government (who we strongly support) is firing at protesting students: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-latin-america-48758146
Ummmm.... Dont those pictures show a kid with a homemade bazooka?

Thats a terrible headline to just refer to them as student protesters. 

Eta: zoomed in and saw ut wasnt a bottle...

Eta: actually yes, that is a bottle with a rag coming out of it so i assume there were molotav cocktails starting those fires. 

 
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Ummmm.... Dont those pictures show a kid with a homemade bazooka?

Thats a terrible headline to just refer to them as student protesters. 

Eta: zoomed in and saw ut wasnt a bottle...

Eta: actually yes, that is a bottle with a rag coming out of it so i assume there were molotav cocktails starting those fires. 
Yeah these aren’t Kent State students. 

My point is that it’s complete chaos down there. Unless and until that’s fixed nothing we do up here will resolve anything. 

 
Asylum requests to be processed at the U.S. embassy in their country of origin only, not at our border.

An increase in foreign aid, and that aid administered from our embassies, not by giving the money over to the foreign government which may or may not be corrupt.

More judges to clear up the backlog at our border.

Provide at least the care at the border that I give to my dog, healthy food, regular exercise, clean water, regular hygiene opportunities, a warm safe place to sleep on a comfortable surface, good medical care, including immunizations. (I do not advocate giving immigrants belly rubs.)
This!

 
Summary: at the moment, President Trump’s description of El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras as “####hole countries” is largely correct. But they do not have to be. We can help fix that, and we have to or the number of migrants is only going to increase: NOTHING that we do with regard to our own borders will prevent that. 
There is very little we can do to fix the corrupt government of s sovereign country. 

 
It took a lot of pressure but it was cool to see Wayfair donate 100k. It would be nice to see more companies do the same.

 
With regard to immediate help at the border: I'm pretty pessimistic given our current political situation. President Trump will not approve the bill that the House passed. The House will not approve the bill that the Senate is considering. The difference between the two sides is allocation of funds. The Republicans want some of the money used for security and deportation; the Democrats want all of the money used for humanitarian purposes. There doesn't seem to be an agreement both sides will accept.

 
My understanding is that HHS is refusing most private donations.
And I actually just saw it’s to The Red Cross which probably has nothing to do with the border or detainees. There’s obviously some charities doing direct work  so Wayfair is playing a bit of politics.

 
And I actually just saw it’s to The Red Cross which probably has nothing to do with the border or detainees. There’s obviously some charities doing direct work  so Wayfair is playing a bit of politics.
Would be interesting to see if they donate annually to red cross in say December and maybe just moved it up a bit. Which wouldn't bother me, but it would some obviously. I think it is dumb they got pressured anyway. 

 
Trying this again. Who's willing to back away from the keyboard and actually do something? I'm sure there are programs like my friend's in most cities. 

From another friend of mine who works in an after school urban ministry for at risk kids.

I'm thankful there are many who are worried and vocal about what's happening at the border... I think it does help draw attention to the situation and increase awareness. I'm hopeful those same people would love to move beyond the keyboard and roll up their sleeves to help. We're hundreds of miles away from the border but the good news is that we have a great need right here in our city. Our neighborhood has numerous immigrant children and hundreds of children who are kids of immigrants. Most of them have a great need for homework help, a reading buddy, tutoring, and compassionate mentors. Thanks Joe for contributing to the conversation and maybe some of your followers will find it helpful to know that they can start meeting great needs of immigrant children starting as early as this afternoon.
Is this of interest to people? 

 
Trying this again. Who's willing to back away from the keyboard and actually do something? I'm sure there are programs like my friend's in most cities. 

From another friend of mine who works in an after school urban ministry for at risk kids.

Is this of interest to people? 
Yes. I have volunteered in the past to help these people in my local community. I taught English as a Second Language for a few years. I'd like to do so again once I am an empty nester (coming soon!) And I have donated to various organizations who have fought for the legal rights of undocumented immigrants (primarily the ACLU.)

 
Yes. I have volunteered in the past to help these people in my local community. I taught English as a Second Language for a few years. I'd like to do so again once I am an empty nester (coming soon!) And I have donated to various organizations who have fought for the legal rights of undocumented immigrants (primarily the ACLU.)
That's nice. I'm talking this week. 

 
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I cant seem to find an official policy change from obama.

What I have read about though is how smugglers are using the family thing as a pitch They also use a potential immigration policy armageddon as a pitch. The following is from buzzfeed so take that into consideration, but I found it to be a fairly unbiased article. 

Large groups of people making the journey from Central America, known as caravans, have forced smugglers to be more creative and aggressive, Selee of the Migration Policy Institute said. Central Americans following news coverage of the caravans have viewed the groups as a safer way to make the journey north without having to pay thousands of dollars to a smuggler.

In response, smugglers have begun to offer bus rides transporting people from their home countries to the US–Mexico border in days. Acutely aware of US immigration law, smugglers have also told would-be migrants that the Trump administration won't be able to detain them for long if they cross the border with a child, Selee said.

"Smugglers pitch people on the information they have: 'Hey, why don't you bring your kids? I'll charge you two for one because as you know, they can't hold families,'" Selee said. "People know some of the information, and they might not act on it absent smuggling, but it gives smugglers ammunition."

Stephanie Leutert, director of the Mexico Security Initiative at the University of Texas at Austin, said smugglers are charging families with children less than individuals attempting to get into the US undetected.

"If you're a single adult, you have a whole extra leg on the end from, say, the border to Houston," Leutert told BuzzFeed News. "Which you don't have if you have a kid."

A man who works as a transportation assistant for smugglers recently told Leutert that a trip with a child costs $5,000 for a family of three. But an adult who wants to cross the border without being apprehended can pay $7,000 to $9,000 just for themselves.

 
That's nice. I'm talking this week. 
I hope you're not being cynical. If you are I certainly don't appreciate it. There is no political or social issue more important to me, I have given tons of time over the years and continue to do so.

Right now my personal time is limited because I am the sole wage earner for my family. It's easy, while at work waiting for meetings or phone calls, to type messages on the internet. It's not so easy to step away and volunteer. When I have the time I will. In the meantime I have spent the last several days looking for ways to donate money which I don't especially have at the moment to help these children. But I haven't found the right vehicle for this, because what I'm reading is that the HHS is turning all donations away. Part of the planned "cruelty" I guess.

I don't appreciate being called out on what I have and have not done. I don't appreciate the implication that because I'm spending time posting here somehow that is a substitute for how I could actually be helping people. I would never call out anyone else here like that, and I suspect that if I did, I might be suspended.

 
I hope you're not being cynical. If you are I certainly don't appreciate it. There is no political or social issue more important to me, I have given tons of time over the years and continue to do so.

Right now my personal time is limited because I am the sole wage earner for my family. It's easy, while at work waiting for meetings or phone calls, to type messages on the internet. It's not so easy to step away and volunteer. When I have the time I will. In the meantime I have spent the last several days looking for ways to donate money which I don't especially have at the moment to help these children. But I haven't found the right vehicle for this, because what I'm reading is that the HHS is turning all donations away. Part of the planned "cruelty" I guess.

I don't appreciate being called out on what I have and have not done. I don't appreciate the implication that because I'm spending time posting here somehow that is a substitute for how I could actually be helping people. I would never call out anyone else here like that, and I suspect that if I did, I might be suspended.
Not being cynical at all. I'm asking if people here would be interested in actually doing something to help immigrants and children. I'd hope they would be now.  

 
Not being cynical at all. I'm asking if people here would be interested in actually doing something to help immigrants and children. I'd hope they would be now.  
Here's an article on how to donate money (which is all I personally have time for.)

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/26/how-to-donate-to-help-migrant-children-at-the-border.html

I've been hesitating because given the political situation I'm not sure how much it will help. But I suppose I will donate today.

 
I hope you're not being cynical. If you are I certainly don't appreciate it. There is no political or social issue more important to me, I have given tons of time over the years and continue to do so.

Right now my personal time is limited because I am the sole wage earner for my family. It's easy, while at work waiting for meetings or phone calls, to type messages on the internet. It's not so easy to step away and volunteer. When I have the time I will. In the meantime I have spent the last several days looking for ways to donate money which I don't especially have at the moment to help these children. But I haven't found the right vehicle for this, because what I'm reading is that the HHS is turning all donations away. Part of the planned "cruelty" I guess.

I don't appreciate being called out on what I have and have not done. I don't appreciate the implication that because I'm spending time posting here somehow that is a substitute for how I could actually be helping people. I would never call out anyone else here like that, and I suspect that if I did, I might be suspended.
You’re being overly defensive.  Joe didn’t single anyone out.

 
This would certainly strike a huge blow to smuggling operations. 
You’re still left with what to do with people that show up at the border requesting asylum anyway.  There’s no way Democrats would ever be OK with deporting them and having them apply for asylum at their embassy.

 
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