The housing crisis in America. Is it time for Congress to step in? (1 Viewer)

[tymarsas]

My personal experience?  I haven't experienced it.  I see it in so many of my favorite cities in the world.

The "demonstration" in Seattle in particular has been brutal and irrefutable.

I would love to see an accounting for what was promised in the "studies" versus what actually happened.  Am I asking too much - I just want a report card on expectations (idealism) versus real world results?

Show me it worked at all.

Here's an example of a small city in Canada that has eliminated homelessness. It would obviously be much tougher (or impossible) to do in a large city, but it is real world evidence that providing housing can help reduce homelessness. https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/calgary/2021/6/2/1_5454057.amp.html

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Show me the demostration in real life.

Because in real life - the idealism presented in most of the studies I have seen used to promote these projects just doesn't play out.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/03/its-a-miracle-helsinkis-radical-solution-to-homelessness
 

This stuff has been tested.  Giving people a place to live and get treatment/meds is cheaper and more effective than the dumb approaches we use today, which are reactive instead of proactive.

 

[Shula-holic]

I was in downtown Atlanta recently. The homeless crisis I see there around the Walgreens and Five Points Marta station has been there for decades. These people are largely mentally ill and or on drugs and alcohol. No amount of affordable housing ghettos will fix that.

You're right on this.  I'm 47, and there's never been a time in my life that I felt if you stopped for gas or to eat within a certain radius of Atlanta you were almost destined to get hit up for money from someone needing their next hit or drink.  It doesn't matter the state of the economy. 

Back when I used to go to old Fulton Co Stadium and Turner Field, be in downtown late at night, those were the days I used to actually carry a pistol.  I don't anymore, but then again I'm not around all that anymore.

 

[Shula-holic]

A 300k home also sounds insane to me. Are they building a trailer park?

I'm involved in a partnership that has within the past 4-5 years developed land and started a new development in the Reno NV area.  Our cost per finished unit with lot cost factored in is now north of $300K.  They are nice homes, but they aren't what anyone would call extreme high end.  They are definitely geared more for people with "normal" jobs, young professionals, etc.  Costs of finishing the homes have increased over 20% on us.  I think it's a good bit more but I can't lay my hands on our initial building costs in phase one to where we are now, at the back end of phase one.  Sales have slowed somewhat, but our biggest issue is getting materials to build and crews on the job to keep up with those sales.

 

[The Commish]

Well, your experience working closely with the above doesn’t match mine.  I’ll just leave it at that — our experiences are vastly different.  Most of the homeless folks I know are desperate for help and permanent housing.  Some of them aren’t — they are too deep in addiction or mental illness to ask for help, to want help, or to stick with the actions required to stay healthy.   In my experience that’s a small portion of the homeless population.

Im on state four and 25 years of working with the less fortunate. Its been exactly this way for me in all four states ive lived in and the dozens of nonprofits ive worked with. My experiences are still anecdotal and i understand that. I guess im just lucky that across all that time I never had to deal with the rule just the exceptions. Maybe i need to go to Vegas more. 

 

[matuski]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/03/its-a-miracle-helsinkis-radical-solution-to-homelessness
 

This stuff has been tested.  Giving people a place to live and get treatment/meds is cheaper and more effective than the dumb approaches we use today, which are reactive instead of proactive.

Your link is a black screen.

 

[matuski]

Here's an example of a small city in Canada that has eliminated homelessness. It would obviously be much tougher (or impossible) to do in a large city, but it is real world evidence that providing housing can help reduce homelessness. https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/calgary/2021/6/2/1_5454057.amp.html

Come on man.

 

[matuski]

Getting about the sincerity in effort I expected so I looked it up myself... Seattle planned 10k homes and was able to build a little more than half that.

Seattle's own comittee (King county) claims to have helped 10's of thousands remain non homeless for 2 years.

By their own numbers you can't tell a damn thing because the numbers quoted as results don't match the stated goals or contain any context.

 

[matuski]

Seattle's tiny homes are what I have seen and found to be an outirght, blatant mockery of the concept.... with dozens of bikes and dressers and coffee tables and rugs and microwaves (obviously none of this was stolen from people with homes).

The first interview I find on the subject provides EXACTLY what you would expect.... the "image" of the clean, perfect tiny home village and kumbaya.

Versus.... this.  I love the lawnmower in the first 5 seconds of video - I'm sure that wasn't stolen and is used to mow the gravel  

"A lot of people like to collect" 

"We have hoarders"  LMAO  COME ON!

And the manager runs away   priceless.  Just priceless.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Your link is a black screen.

Weird.  Different link.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5437402

 

[tymarsas]

Come on man.

I don't understand your response. Please expand.

 

[BassNBrew]

I watched 60 minutes tonight, they did a story about investors large and small buying single family homes in America.  The area that the target is the sunbelt, all cash offers, no inspection, no repairs, etc.  once they secure the property they quickly raise the rent.  One corporation that is a stock company boasted a 67 percent increase in profits.  They stated about 30 percent of the single family homes in the sunbelt are purchased by investors,  basically squeezing out families from buying homes.  My personal experience is that I purchased a second home in the west valley area of AZ 4 years ago for 300k, I get letters/ phone calls from investors on a monthly basis wanting to buy my home.  My neighbor put his home up for sale and it got into a bidding war with an investor paying 700k cash no inspection.  
 

so is it time for Washington to do something about this I.e. windfall taxes on rent increases, increase rent more then 5 percent you pay extra taxes, or don’t allow any tax deductions for repairs/taxes/insurance. Etc.  maybe limit the number of rentals you can own.  This is a real problem that is killing the middle class in America.  Your thoughts ?

One problem is that Wall State bailed out the banks for making bad loans and swung things so far in the other direction that Wall State became better positioned to buy homes.

One thing congress could do is stop people flooding across the border. 

I have a hard time believing this when fast food companies can't fill jobs at $20 an hour and unemployment is at historical lows coming out of a global pandemic.  We need more people.

The problem arose because of government.

Anything the government touches increases the cost, lowers the quality and makes it harder to find.

Seems to be the case.

Boy this one is tough and I wish I had idea one on how to fix it but I don't.   I know from my chair I don't understand the market.  I see lots of 300K homes being built.  I make a good living and a 300K home is insane to me.  I seriously don't know who buys these places.

But.....that's not the real issue.  I agree there needs to be more done to help those that need it find a safe and reasonably affordable roof over their heads.  However as some have mentioned, governmental intervention many times makes things worse, not better.  I'm at a loss.  

One thing I've found interesting is that today's starter home buyer would turn up their nose at my starter home.  Once they roped us into $80 month cell phones and $150 TV/internet, granite counters were a no-brainer.

 

[BassNBrew]

I kind of saw this coming and posted this on my blog in late 2017... 

Just read an interesting article in Realtor Magazine by Jon Boughtin.  You can read it here.

http://realtormag.realtor.org/news-and-commentary/commentary/article/2017/09/fannie-maes-troubling-invitation

While the theme of the article is about the federal government helping Wall Street companies access funds to purchase homes and transition them into rental properties, here's are some key quotes and points that should be of interest to investors in the North Carolina market.

"Deals like these are going to lead to more investor purchases, and further draw down inventory.  And generally where's there is an inventory shortage, there is a rental shortage as well." - Lawrence Yun NAR's Chief Economist.

According to public filings, Invitation Homes is looking at purchasing in California, Florida, North Carolina, and other areas with limited supply.

Fannie Mae outlined a strategy of investing in markets they believe "will...exhibit constrained levels of new-home construction.  As a result, we believe our markets have and will continue to outperform the broader U.S. housing and rental market in rent growth and home price appreciation.

I've personally seen many individual investors sell over the last three years, missing out on gains from 20-50% over that time frame.  Rents have improved by 10-20% during that time frame in most of our markets, turning investments that were previously a push into cash cows.  As I drive around daily conducting business, my eyes are telling that that the number of housing starts don't match the current growth in the greater Charlotte market.  The sharps and sharks are buying and holding in this market, I'm taking notice.

Key point is that our federal government caused this.  It start under Obama and continued under Trump.  While you had to document the why you spent $10 on an IPA last month when applying for a mortgage, good ol' Uncle Sam was streamlining things so Wall State could buy the home you wanted.  Interesting enough, when the price appreciation started the non-Wall Street weak hands sold into the "bubble" fear and missed out on life changing wealth.

God Bless or good buddy @Drugrunner / @Mike Anderson for buying up half of Ft. Wayne.  Dude doesn't post here anymore....probably cashed out to buy an island in the topics.

 

[pinkham13]

Unlike the comments you’ve made, I respect and accept that we have different experiences on this topic.

That said, you have zero idea what my experience is, and you seem content to assume rather than engage.  I’ll just leave it at that.

That’s the problem. You cite studies that are obviously flawed. I make the assumption that  you are making arms length conclusions with no real life experience because you don’t seem to grasp reality on the ground. If you actually lived in a ghetto or homeless camp for more than a day you wouldn’t be arguing with me.

Why is crack so prevalent in ghettos? Why is meth everywhere? The war on drugs has been devastating to black communities all over the country. I have seen it up close and personal in Atlanta. Why is it we can put a man on the moon but we can’t keep crack out of the ghetto? 
 

The government solution was to lockup black fathers dealing crack. They broke the black community with their fake war on drugs. Try going to the south side of Chicago at night. Then tell me we need more government housing projects.

 

[The Commish]

"Housing First" is a good state side program working its way through the problems they see in various areas of the country. 

I also feel like it needs be pointed out that "homelessness" is not a monolith of people OR circumstance. Thus, there is no silver bullet in any of this. This is why a federal solution is likely never going to work. Its also why our personal observations are pretty meaningless to the overall conversation. It would likely be more productive to discuss specific situations where we know the details of the plight and the goals of those trying to help with that plight. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

We need more people

Like we need another hole in the head. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

Seattle's tiny homes are what I have seen and found to be an outirght, blatant mockery of the concept.... with dozens of bikes and dressers and coffee tables and rugs and microwaves (obviously none of this was stolen from people with homes).

The first interview I find on the subject provides EXACTLY what you would expect.... the "image" of the clean, perfect tiny home village and kumbaya.

Versus.... this.  I love the lawnmower in the first 5 seconds of video - I'm sure that wasn't stolen and is used to mow the gravel  

"A lot of people like to collect" 

"We have hoarders"  LMAO  COME ON!

And the manager runs away   priceless.  Just priceless.

Hoarders is code for disgusting thieves. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

Apparently Stolen Bikes Piled Up In Homeless Camps

That headline cracks me up. Like they get washed down a river accidentally. 

 

[pinkham13]

Apparently Stolen Bikes Piled Up In Homeless Camps

That headline cracks me up. Like they get washed down a river accidentally. 

Like I said up thread. Most of these folks are mentally ill and or addicted to drugs and alcohol. You can find studies that show nearly  half of the homeless are mentally ill. https://www.bbrfoundation.org/blog/homelessness-and-mental-illness-challenge-our-society

These people can’t hold a job due to their mental  condition. Building slums for them has not and will not work. Sure you might get a few off the street but they need psychiatric medical care. Maybe we should stop encouraging mental illness in our schools and in our new modern culture norms. We pretend men can be women and changed our language to normalize mental illness. Teaching kids that mental illness is brave and butchering the English language is outrageous and dangerous. Then we mask babies under five so they are socially ret@rded and unable to communicate very well. Transgender story hour for kids? Upside down thinking and pure insanity in our schools is helping the mental illness and homelessness spread. 

 

[FairWarning]

Like I said up thread. Most of these folks are mentally ill and or addicted to drugs and alcohol. You can find studies that show nearly  half of the homeless are mentally ill. https://www.bbrfoundation.org/blog/homelessness-and-mental-illness-challenge-our-society

These people can’t hold a job due to their mental  condition. Building slums for them has not and will not work. Sure you might get a few off the street but they need psychiatric medical care. Maybe we should stop encouraging mental illness in our schools and in our new modern culture norms. We pretend men can be women and changed our language to normalize mental illness. Teaching kids that mental illness is brave and butchering the English language is outrageous and dangerous. Then we mask babies under five so they are socially ret@rded and unable to communicate very well. Transgender story hour for kids? Upside down thinking and pure insanity in our schools is helping the mental illness and homelessness spread. 

Four-YO’s have rights also.  Just ask the school administrators.  

 

[The Commish]

Four-YO’s have rights also.  Just ask the school administrators.  

Did you happen to read the link he provided.  It's not saying what he thinks it is and is exactly what several of us have said is rather common in this demographic.  It's worth the read IMO.

 

[MAC_32]

Other than the obvious bad faith arguments I'm not understanding why someone becomes homeless is driving the conversation in a housing crisis thread. Page 2 was a good read til that point though. Thanks to those contributors 

 

[FairWarning]

This housing crisis is global.  It’ll be interesting to see how countries handle it.

 

[urbanhack]

The point is they don’t want the help. Help usually comes with rules and expectations. They want to be left alone and live the homeless lifestyle. They will take anything that’s free but if it means conforming to societal norms they aren’t interested. In many cases it is mental illness and drug addiction driving their lives.Those are the facts on the ground. Downtown Atlanta has always had a big homeless population. They sleep on the streets and in the parks and for many that’s what they want. Many have criminal records too. The only jobs they can get do not provide enough to make a difference. So they give up on life and live on the streets where they don’t have to conform and can be free. Free from the slave life most of us lead in our jobs.

Houston seems to be doing something right.

https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/2021/11/28/houston-ending-homelessness

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-01-30/houston-teach-los-angeles-curbing-homelessness#:~:text=Houston provides many times more,has been its whole focus.