Solutions To The Border Crisis - Specifically Housing And Detention (1 Viewer)

[parasaurolophus]

You’re still left with what to do with people that show up at the border requesting asylum anyway.  

Of course. But the number would be reduced. I don't know where they are getting the money, but people are coming up with 5000 bucks just to get dropped off near a border station. If they could avoid paying 5000 bucks and apply for asylum at the embassy, tons of them would. 

If a law was passed that people had to apply at the embassy, which of course would never happen, but if it did, it wouldnt be a stretch that a law would also be passed not allowing people to try at the embassy and then try again at the border. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

From my friend:

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/central-american-immigrants-united-states/?fbclid=IwAR23QlH_AhiIfo5knzhtxpEG8XtXeBQYtDm811vE9lQ9xoYlX9SLYNb1QYQ

Figure 9 is the key thing to examine.

If you and I could earn 40k here in Knoxville, but knew that we had jobs available that would pay 4 million instead in Canada, many of us would go. That minimizes the challenges for these folks who have a language barrier etc, but the math is right on the difference between what they earn in huehuetenango (30-40 USD per month) and what they earn in Knoxville (40 to 50k, earned in the shadow economy with large remittances going home).

Look people in El Salvador were just denied TPS https://www.nytimes.com/.../08/us/salvadorans-tps-end.html. In the last 3 years the murder rate has declined. 
Why do they think El Salvador is much worse? The 2001 earthquake? 

If we had a TON of Venezuelans coming now, it would make sense, and honestly many of them should be granted asylum.

What we have are people who are coached by those who have made it successfully and the coyotes who have a massive financial stake in continuing the flood of people (they are literally being paid thousands of dollars per person per trip) to lie and claim they are in danger. They are coached in what to say for an initial determination hearing (I am in fear for my life because...) but they are coming for economic reasons. Now that is not everyone, it is just the vast majority. 

I would be interested in anything other than anecdotes that shows why your friend thinks El Salvador is much worse. Federal judges looked for a reason to block the change on TPS and didnt find it. Did people flee civil war in Central American countries and come to America for legitimate and legal reasons in seeking asylum? YES. What happened subsequently is that those whose relatives were granted citizenship in 1986 were able to do better and better than their neighbors, then you had more folks make their way. What is drawing people is not civil war, it is not fear of death, it is a desire for a better life.

I actually have tremendous sympathy for that position. It is one of the reasons I have been talking more about both that factoid about 4 million in Canada and the fact that for many folks in Guat you could save half your salary your whole life and never become a landowner because of protections around land, which I view as unjust.

Talk to some folks who are here illegally. Ask them why they came. The flight from violence aspect of asylum seekers is very real for those who are granted asylum. The massive increase in migrants is not because of new war, or the volcano, or climate change or whatever else, it is because of $$$.

 

[timschochet]

From my friend:

Interesting. It’s certainly not anything I’ve been reading. But it’s food for thought and I will have to look into it more. 

I must say that I’m pretty skeptical of his implication that the vast majority who are claiming they are coming here out of fear for their lives are lying about it. 

 

[Ilov80s]

There’s lots of refugees at the school I teach at. Mostly from the Middle East. They are all nice kids and I always enjoy working with them. I think if anyone does volunteer, they will feel rewarded and come away with more of an appreciation for how much people are willing to risk for a chance at opportunity and liberty.

 

[jonessed]

There’s lots of refugees at the school I teach at. Mostly from the Middle East. They are all nice kids and I always enjoy working with them. I think if anyone does volunteer, they will feel rewarded and come away with more of an appreciation for how much people are willing to risk for a chance at opportunity and liberty.

I volunteered a lot at my daughter’s elementary school when we lived in Sacramento.  That school district was considered one of the most diverse in the country.  Sikh, Hmong, Eastern European, East Asian, Hispanic, Black, etc.  Apparently there were over 25 different primary languages at that one elementary school.  They got a ton of grant so that helped.

I really enjoyed it there, but there were definitely culture clashes.  Not so much between immigrants and non-immigrants though.  It was mostly between different immigrant groups.  There were also issues at the new low income housing complex across the street.   Non-immigrant families with drugs and domestic issues mixed in with immigrant families working their asses off to get a leg up for their kids.  That would carry over into the school sometimes.

Lots of state workers too.  They kind of had their own culture. Man, did they know how to exploit the state welfare systems.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Interesting. It’s certainly not anything I’ve been reading. But it’s food for thought and I will have to look into it more. 

I must say that I’m pretty skeptical of his implication that the vast majority who are claiming they are coming here out of fear for their lives are lying about it. 

One thing I found very interesting from that article I posted earlier was they mentioned how the murder rate in Baltimore is more than twice that of Guatemala. That got me to look up murder rates in the US and it appears guatemala doesn't even crack the top 30 cities in the US.

 

[Ilov80s]

I volunteered a lot at my daughter’s elementary school when we lived in Sacramento.  That school district was considered one of the most diverse in the country.  Sikh, Hmong, Eastern European, East Asian, Hispanic, Black, etc.  Apparently there were over 25 different primary languages at that one elementary school.  They got a ton of grant so that helped.

I really enjoyed it there, but there were definitely culture clashes.  Not so much between immigrants and non-immigrants though.  It was mostly between different immigrant groups.  There were also issues at the new low income housing complex across the street.   Non-immigrant families with drugs and domestic issues mixed in with immigrant families working their asses off to get a leg up for their kids.  That would carry over into the school sometimes.

Lots of state workers too.  They kind of had their own culture. Man, did they know how to exploit the state welfare systems.

Fortunately our high school is well known for being both diverse but also very chill. We don’t have many serious behavior issues and kids from various groups mostly get a long well. It’s an easy spot for Middle Eastern refugees from Syria and Iraq to come to since we already have a huge established population of Arabs, Muslims and Chaldeans. 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

One thing I found very interesting from that article I posted earlier was they mentioned how the murder rate in Baltimore is more than twice that of Guatemala. That got me to look up murder rates in the US and it appears guatemala doesn't even crack the top 30 cities in the US.

I am expecting an imminent exodus from Charm City heading south.  Safer, better baseball, better climate, not having a crab diet forced on one, the benefits seem obvious.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Interesting. It’s certainly not anything I’ve been reading. But it’s food for thought and I will have to look into it more. 

I must say that I’m pretty skeptical of his implication that the vast majority who are claiming they are coming here out of fear for their lives are lying about it. 

I don't know as I'm not close to it personally. My friend is very close to personally and works with a majority refugee population. Many here illegally. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

It's complicated. 

Wayfair employees protest their company selling furniture to detention centers. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wayfairs-response-to-employee-outrage-at-sales-to-furnish-migrant-detention-centers-is-wrong-experts-say-2019-06-26

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

It's complicated. 

Wayfair employees protest their company selling furniture to detention centers. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wayfairs-response-to-employee-outrage-at-sales-to-furnish-migrant-detention-centers-is-wrong-experts-say-2019-06-26

I do not understand.  In protest of the fact that these children lack something these employees refuse to participate in providing that which is lacking.  This makes no sense to me.  If they insisted that the profit from the sale is donated to a group which supports these persons I could get that, but refusing to supply the essential to protest denial of the essential, no, not complicated, just ridiculous.  Their hearts may be in the right place but their logic fails, in my estimation.  Seems like a case of acting before thinking, sort of a Ready, Fire, Aim, scenario.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I do not understand.  In protest of the fact that these children lack something these employees refuse to participate in providing that which is lacking.  This makes no sense to me.  If they insisted that the profit from the sale is donated to a group which supports these persons I could get that, but refusing to supply the essential to protest denial of the essential, no, not complicated, just ridiculous.  Their hearts may be in the right place but their logic fails, in my estimation.  Seems like a case of acting before thinking, sort of a Ready, Fire, Aim, scenario.

I'm not sure I get it either. Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said "this is what solidarity looks like".

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I'm not sure I get it either. Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said "this is what solidarity looks like".

I could have seen it if the workers, instead of branding their beds with the Wayfarer brand or name plate had instead stamped the furniture with, say, information or phone numbers of advocacy groups to assist the detainees.  I could see it if they insisted the profits went to a supportive cause, but all they did is delay these children receiving beds. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Bank Of America to stop lending to prisons and detention centers

 

[Joe Bryant]

I understand (I think) the heart and general idea for not doing business with these companies. But it seems like it's just making it more difficult to get proper facilities for these children. 

 

[timschochet]

I understand (I think) the heart and general idea for not doing business with these companies. But it seems like it's just making it more difficult to get proper facilities for these children. 

It’s a microcosm of the arguments I used to hear in my youth about Apartheid. Should we trade with South Africa? No because the people we’re trading with promote Apartheid. Yes because if we don’t we hurt the most the people who suffer under Apartheid. I never could make up my mind. 

Heres one thing I know, however: much like myself with regard to fantasy football, whichever way AOC chooses to go the opposite approach is usually best.